Guild Wars 2

I just tried the game out again and I was shocked to see that you are pigeon holed with your builds now. (I left when Temple of the Silent Storm was only available in hotjoin and I played with a competitive team that was one of the top NA teams at the time but we quit due to ArenaNet letting everyone down on their ESports promises)

Being forced to max out 3 different trees rather than being able to mix and match for different minor and major traits is extremely disappointing as one of the things I liked most about this game was its potential customization.

Additionally, you can now only choose an amulet rather than being able to choose the minor stat boosting item (I can’t remember if it was a gem or ring or whatever).

Finally, you are now forced to take an entire set of runes for your armor.

Why did ArenaNet decide to dumb down the part of the game that brought it so much depth?

Also, I think its dumb that to equip my PvP skins I have to use an item.

One of the few positives I have noticed is the new achievements which despite not existing previously, it has taken account of.

For balance purpose.
Also, the 3 lines makes little difference to most classes who were using 662 build ( or 30/30/10 depending on when you quit ) anyway.

Nocta.5274:

For balance purpose.
Also, the 3 lines makes little difference to most classes who were using 662 build ( or 30/30/10 depending on when you quit ) anyway.

I played in the 30/30/10 period although none of my builds used that at the time. Generally most T3 Majors weren’t worth getting compared to either minor traits or major traits in other lines. It sucks that they felt they couldn’t balance the game with the build diversity they allowed. I feel really pigeonholed into certain builds at this point compared to previously.

Nocta.5274:

For balance purpose.
Also, the 3 lines makes little difference to most classes who were using 662 build ( or 30/30/10 depending on when you quit ) anyway.

Btw, I looked at the forum a bit and it seems like there are still constant posts complaining about balance. Has balance actually gotten any better since they dumbed everything down?

Balance right now is good, only one class feels over the top ( Elementalist ) and two feels a bit weak ( warriors and rangers ) but there’s a big patch coming tuesday fixing a lot of issues.

The specialization patch was also a way to redesign the system for allowing the elite specializations.

I kinda understand where you’re coming from, but in the end, the current system is more logical, prevents people from creating bad or exploitable builds ( it can be very hard to balance the traits if you’rte not forced to invest in the whole line ) and still allow for good customization.

You can’t mix runes sets but they added a lot more runes sets. You only have the amulet but they added more stats choices.etc etc

Seether.7285:

I just tried the game out again and I was shocked to see that you are pigeon holed with your builds now. (I left when Temple of the Silent Storm was only available in hotjoin and I played with a competitive team that was one of the top NA teams at the time but we quit due to ArenaNet letting everyone down on their ESports promises)

Being forced to max out 3 different trees rather than being able to mix and match for different minor and major traits is extremely disappointing as one of the things I liked most about this game was its potential customization.

Additionally, you can now only choose an amulet rather than being able to choose the minor stat boosting item (I can’t remember if it was a gem or ring or whatever).

Finally, you are now forced to take an entire set of runes for your armor.

Why did ArenaNet decide to dumb down the part of the game that brought it so much depth?

Also, I think its dumb that to equip my PvP skins I have to use an item.

One of the few positives I have noticed is the new achievements which despite not existing previously, it has taken account of.

I disagree with you for a few reasons.

1- the old system forced us to use the same trait lines but before the trait lines gave bonuses. So the old 0-0-2-6-6 ele is now just earth-water-arcane cele ele. This actually gives us more options. You can play with different runes since your not forced into a boon duration trait line.

2- We were allowed to before to mix and match runes with amulet and rings in the old system. They just took out the rings and silly numbers from the old PvP amulets. Also making it so you can grab just 1 rune made it easier to change runes on the fly and play with your build. The new system also makes it easier for new players coming in. In the old system you would have a 2-2-2-4-4 eles and they were always wondering why they sucked. Now they have made it so new players coming in arent crushed solely because they made a terrible build.

Overall its made the game better. I do agree with you that they have forced some of the builds on us. I do agree that changing weapons and having to use a item to change its look just for PvP is lame. Though ultimately alot of these changes have made it better for the masses and the game is still mostly skill based.

Nocta.5274:

Balance right now is good, only one class feels over the top ( Elementalist ) and two feels a bit weak ( warriors and rangers ) but there’s a big patch coming tuesday fixing a lot of issues.

The specialization patch was also a way to redesign the system for allowing the elite specializations.

I kinda understand where you’re coming from, but in the end, the current system is more logical, prevents people from creating bad or exploitable builds ( it can be very hard to balance the traits if you’rte not forced to invest in the whole line ) and still allow for good customization.

You can’t mix runes sets but they added a lot more runes sets. You only have the amulet but they added more stats choices.etc etc

Burn stacking was broken and will continue to be broken after the Tuesday patch.

kdaddy.5431:

I disagree with you for a few reasons.

1- the old system forced us to use the same trait lines but before the trait lines gave bonuses. So the old 0-0-2-6-6 ele is now just earth-water-arcane cele ele. This actually gives us more options. You can play with different runes since your not forced into a boon duration trait line.

2- We were allowed to before to mix and match runes with amulet and rings in the old system. They just took out the rings and silly numbers from the old PvP amulets. Also making it so you can grab just 1 rune made it easier to change runes on the fly and play with your build. The new system also makes it easier for new players coming in. In the old system you would have a 2-2-2-4-4 eles and they were always wondering why they sucked. Now they have made it so new players coming in arent crushed solely because they made a terrible build.

Overall its made the game better. I do agree with you that they have forced some of the builds on us. I do agree that changing weapons and having to use a item to change its look just for PvP is lame. Though ultimately alot of these changes have made it better for the masses and the game is still mostly skill based.

What do you mean you were forced into trait lines before you got bonuses? You had minor trait bonuses that were fixed and major traits which could be selected. There were like 6+ major trait options per tier. Now you can only choose from 3 major traits from each group and you can’t mix and match.

I have a friend that wanted to me to get back into the game but I absolutely despise the fact that they killed customization which was one of the things that drew me to the game originally. I played this games for more hours than I would like to mention during beta and at release and one of the things that kept me going was being able to experiment with very different builds across the different professions. Sure, some of them weren’t viable but I helped create what was at the time the meta build for a couple professions. Being pigeon holed seems so boring.

Part of my bitterness may come from the fact that my old builds can’t even be developed with the new system but even without that fact I think it is garbage. Just because people are bad at theory crafting and are too lazy to look up builds online shouldn’t mean that people shouldn’t have the ability to create diverse builds.

Seether.7285:

kdaddy.5431:

I disagree with you for a few reasons.

1- the old system forced us to use the same trait lines but before the trait lines gave bonuses. So the old 0-0-2-6-6 ele is now just earth-water-arcane cele ele. This actually gives us more options. You can play with different runes since your not forced into a boon duration trait line.

2- We were allowed to before to mix and match runes with amulet and rings in the old system. They just took out the rings and silly numbers from the old PvP amulets. Also making it so you can grab just 1 rune made it easier to change runes on the fly and play with your build. The new system also makes it easier for new players coming in. In the old system you would have a 2-2-2-4-4 eles and they were always wondering why they sucked. Now they have made it so new players coming in arent crushed solely because they made a terrible build.

Overall its made the game better. I do agree with you that they have forced some of the builds on us. I do agree that changing weapons and having to use a item to change its look just for PvP is lame. Though ultimately alot of these changes have made it better for the masses and the game is still mostly skill based.

What do you mean you were forced into trait lines before you got bonuses? You had minor trait bonuses that were fixed and major traits which could be selected. There were like 6+ major trait options per tier. Now you can only choose from 3 major traits from each group and you can’t mix and match.

I have a friend that wanted to me to get back into the game but I absolutely despise the fact that they killed customization which was one of the things that drew me to the game originally. I played this games for more hours than I would like to mention during beta and at release and one of the things that kept me going was being able to experiment with very different builds across the different professions. Sure, some of them weren’t viable but I helped create what was at the time the meta build for a couple professions. Being pigeon holed seems so boring.

Part of my bitterness may come from the fact that my old builds can’t even be developed with the new system but even without that fact I think it is garbage. Just because people are bad at theory crafting and are too lazy to look up builds online shouldn’t mean that people shouldn’t have the ability to create diverse builds.

He meant that, before, when you traited into a line, you also got stats bonus (vit, power…). That means if you want to build a dps spec, you must get the line that has + power even when the traits are terrible. They removed that part, and it enables more build diversity.

The diversity of the new system is actually significantly better than the old one. The old one “looks” good on paper, but it’s actually false choice. It tricks you to think you have options, while you do not.

Seether.7285:

What do you mean you were forced into trait lines before you got bonuses? You had minor trait bonuses that were fixed and major traits which could be selected. There were like 6+ major trait options per tier. Now you can only choose from 3 major traits from each group and you can’t mix and match.

It is important to note that a majority of the traits you mention that “could be selected” were mostly dead due to intense competition from over performing traits in the same tier. Many of these issues have been addressed by combining certain less desirable effects with those that tend to have synergy with each other. This is to say that the number of decisions has to make have indeed decreased for the new trait system, but the quality of most traits has drastically improved. Consequentially, this has allowed for greater experimentation with rune sets, sigils, and stat combinations to work in tandem with the more robust traits available.

Warrior weak. I loled.

@OP

As far as most builds go, the new changes let you have your cake and eat it too. Guardians getting to pick up their medi traits AND all their virtue traits AND still have a whole tree left over. Theives getting everything in one build (not calling it op, relax). Its dumbed down in the sense that one build will give you basically everything you’d want, but to say its limiting would be wrong IMO.

I’ll start with the easy stuff:

• Stats Ya, the new PvP amulet system is dumb. The only reason we got for it is that it’s too hard for new players to understand the amulet + jewel system. We need more granularity in PvP stat selection.
• Runes ANet didn’t like how you could mix and match runes for powerful 2 pt bonuses. They changed the runes to be more top-heavy (more pieces gives bigger benefit). As a result, it no longer made sense to mix and match.
• Shared PvE/PvP Gear This was a good decision to bring some unification for all modes of the game. You’ll adjust to it quickly.

The big thing is the trait changes. It may seem limiting at first, but it’s better in the long run. The problem with the old system is that every trait competed against every other trait. A grandmaster trait didn’t compete against just the other traits in its slot, but against low-hanging fruit all over the tree. That’s partly why grandmaster traits seemed lackluster. And because of that trait competition, it was very difficult to create unique or interesting traits which were viable.

The new system creates mutual exclusion between traits. When there are less possible combinations, it’s much easier to balance and you can make a lot more interesting choices. For example, defensive traits can be made to compete with each other; you can’t take both. That limits heavy damage builds from having an overabundance of defensive traits. In addition, you can now theme trait lines (some professions do this better than others). The traits in a line can all work together to create a certain playstyle shift.

Sunshine.5014:

Seether.7285:

kdaddy.5431:

I disagree with you for a few reasons.

1- the old system forced us to use the same trait lines but before the trait lines gave bonuses. So the old 0-0-2-6-6 ele is now just earth-water-arcane cele ele. This actually gives us more options. You can play with different runes since your not forced into a boon duration trait line.

2- We were allowed to before to mix and match runes with amulet and rings in the old system. They just took out the rings and silly numbers from the old PvP amulets. Also making it so you can grab just 1 rune made it easier to change runes on the fly and play with your build. The new system also makes it easier for new players coming in. In the old system you would have a 2-2-2-4-4 eles and they were always wondering why they sucked. Now they have made it so new players coming in arent crushed solely because they made a terrible build.

Overall its made the game better. I do agree with you that they have forced some of the builds on us. I do agree that changing weapons and having to use a item to change its look just for PvP is lame. Though ultimately alot of these changes have made it better for the masses and the game is still mostly skill based.

What do you mean you were forced into trait lines before you got bonuses? You had minor trait bonuses that were fixed and major traits which could be selected. There were like 6+ major trait options per tier. Now you can only choose from 3 major traits from each group and you can’t mix and match.

I have a friend that wanted to me to get back into the game but I absolutely despise the fact that they killed customization which was one of the things that drew me to the game originally. I played this games for more hours than I would like to mention during beta and at release and one of the things that kept me going was being able to experiment with very different builds across the different professions. Sure, some of them weren’t viable but I helped create what was at the time the meta build for a couple professions. Being pigeon holed seems so boring.

Part of my bitterness may come from the fact that my old builds can’t even be developed with the new system but even without that fact I think it is garbage. Just because people are bad at theory crafting and are too lazy to look up builds online shouldn’t mean that people shouldn’t have the ability to create diverse builds.

He meant that, before, when you traited into a line, you also got stats bonus (vit, power…). That means if you want to build a dps spec, you must get the line that has + power even when the traits are terrible. They removed that part, and it enables more build diversity.

The diversity of the new system is actually significantly better than the old one. The old one “looks” good on paper, but it’s actually false choice. It tricks you to think you have options, while you do not.

This is exactly what i thought i said.

Do you remember the old S/F traits? It was 0-6-0-4-4 yet the power trait line was in fire. So this build wasnt actually as good it should of been. Another thing was warrior builds. Every warrior build looked like 0-0-6-6-2 or 0-0-6-2-6. If you ever went 6-6-2-0-0 you would die because the traits sucked. You did it to max power/pre yet it did nothing.

The old system really did let people think they had some control over builds but you werent. Im curious to what your old builds were and dont work anymore?

The game is way better now than when you played it seether. Before when it was 30/30/10 almost every class had a trait that was a must to take and wouldn’t leave them with enough trait points to tailor their build to the point of which it was still effective. Now you can actually tailor your build for exactly what you need and you have enough points to do so.

For example on power necro you had to go 30 points in soul reaping no matter what, and if you wanted some sustain you would have to sacrifice a tonne of damage because you had to go into spite and couldn’t go into blood or death magic.