Guild Wars 2

Will it ever be an eSport like WoW/SC2/League of Legends/Dota 2
Will it?
Why?
Why not?
Sorry but I really like this game, and if it can be an esport with tournaments for me to watch and choose my favorite team then I’d enjoy the game that much more.

I get that eSports are the next big thing… but I really think Arena.net’s attempts to morph an MMO into one is barking up the wrong tree.

chemiclord.3978:

I get that eSports are the next big thing… but I really think Arena.net’s attempts to morph an MMO into one is barking up the wrong tree.

If it were done, it would attract a lot more attention to the game.

Well, the problem is that MMOs really aren’t traditionally that frantic, high paced, high energy sort of game that draws interest.

GW2 is more “action” that most of its genre, but it still plays pretty slow and sluggish compared to the likes of League of Legends or Starcraft.

chemiclord.3978:

Well, the problem is that MMOs really aren’t traditionally that frantic, high paced, high energy sort of game that draws interest.

GW2 is more “action” that most of its genre, but it still plays pretty slow and sluggish compared to the likes of League of Legends or Starcraft.

Interesting. I would actually argue the opposite. In LoL& Starcraft, you slowly build up advantages through various strategies. To be sure, there are quick mechanics in the fights themselves- yet the fights themselves typically take up ~10% of actual gameplay, if that. The strength of LoL is the combination of these two. In GW2, we only have (or 90% have) the mechanics, where numerous decisions are being made by 10 players, making it impossible to follow every single one. In LoL, on the other hand, you typically can follow every relevant action.

Requiem.8769:

chemiclord.3978:

Well, the problem is that MMOs really aren’t traditionally that frantic, high paced, high energy sort of game that draws interest.

GW2 is more “action” that most of its genre, but it still plays pretty slow and sluggish compared to the likes of League of Legends or Starcraft.

Interesting. I would actually argue the opposite. In LoL& Starcraft, you slowly build up advantages through various strategies. To be sure, there are quick mechanics in the fights themselves- yet the fights themselves typically take up ~10% of actual gameplay, if that. The strength of LoL is the combination of these two. In GW2, we only have (or 90% have) the mechanics, where numerous decisions are being made by 10 players, making it impossible to follow every single one. In LoL, on the other hand, you typically can follow every relevant action.

I agree, these other high-end strategy/moba games, usually the fights are 10% of the game. Most of the game is about building up so you can win those few fights. In GW2 most of it is fights and placement.

For straight 1v1 or small group fights, it may attract some people. But it will never be big shows like Lol or DOTA, simply because the game wasn’t designed to be watched that way. There are only 8 classes, and each has few viable builds, compared to hundreds champions with thousands different abilities and playing styles for LOL and DOTA, it’s impossible for GW2 to compete in that market.

GW2 is designed to be in the direction of games like WoW not Lol or DOTA.

Dragonax.6487:

For straight 1v1 or small group fights, it may attract some people. But it will never be big shows like Lol or DOTA, simply because the game wasn’t designed to be watched that way. There are only 8 classes, and each has few viable builds, compared to hundreds champions with thousands different abilities and playing styles for LOL and DOTA, it’s impossible for GW2 to compete in that market.

GW2 is designed to be in the direction of games like WoW not Lol or DOTA.

Yes but WoW has events for their PvP, big events/tournaments.

This ship has sailed and GW2 missed the boat. It barely has an sPvP community, much less a population that could support any sort of Eeethporth. I can’t think of one serious team that is still playing or plans to play in the near future.

xFangs.9580:

Dragonax.6487:

For straight 1v1 or small group fights, it may attract some people. But it will never be big shows like Lol or DOTA, simply because the game wasn’t designed to be watched that way. There are only 8 classes, and each has few viable builds, compared to hundreds champions with thousands different abilities and playing styles for LOL and DOTA, it’s impossible for GW2 to compete in that market.

GW2 is designed to be in the direction of games like WoW not Lol or DOTA.

Yes but WoW has events for their PvP, big events/tournaments.

Then GW2 can have more tournaments too, when it gets more popular. Still, I believe only experienced WoW players would be interested in watching WoW tournaments, for people who don’t understand the game and classes and builds , it’s really pointless and no fun to watch unlike Lol and DOTA.

the sPvP population of gw2 is too low.

need more PvE / WvW people to try sPvP.

else no esports.

I personally find watching and even playing GW2 PvP to be incredibly boring. There needs to be more build up before the fight, or something. Coming up with builds to use in PvP tends to be the most interesting thing about it. Then it gets old.

Personally I feel like GvG from GW1 was more esport than anything I’ve seen in GW2 so far.

I’d like to see a 6v6 GvG like game type in GW2. 8v8 was a little too much to have to follow. But I loved the 3 way split style in GW1 GvG with a base defender, main group, and roamers. Very fun to watch.

no

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PvP is boring, and like Caffynated said there doesn’t appear to be any real momentum behind it.

Compare that to WvW and the sub-scene that developed from that, GvG.

There was (is?) a space to develop that further, but it feels like they missed the boat.

xFangs.9580:

Yes but WoW has events for their PvP, big events/tournaments.

Blizzcon once a year and thats about it. The rest is initiative from the players similar to the GW2 tournaments.

Wow never was that succesfull as esport. It did have a lot more players and viewers tho (in pvp esp).

I do pvp from time to time, but it is kind of boring. Its always capture the points and like WvW its currently zerging with one or two people maybe capturing points/back capping.

The other problem is that people QUIT as soon as you are down 50 points. That point lead is not insurmountable, but a lot of people still quit. There is no penalty for people leaving and it really hurts the gameplay of tPvP. I do wish they do something else besides capture the points and bunkering them because it has gotten super stale.

GW2 is probably the most suitable modern MMO to become an esport and Arenanet is letting a huge opportunity slip past if they don’t try to make a push for it. They have gone about it the wrong way so far. sPvP must be the basis of the esport, and Dominion-style capture matches are not the way to go. Furthermore, the focus must be on player-brands and caster-brands to begin with. If Arenanet had regular tournaments for lucrative in-game rewards (that is, gems, not skins and PvE rewards which most competitive players don’t give a crap about), then that would help publicise its PvP scene, especially if it streamed and commentated the matches themselves.

For an esport to be born, firstly, there must be a competitive game type that is fun to play and attracts a lot of players. Players naturally have varying skill levels, so for the game mode to be skill-dependent is almost an automatic process. Arenanet needs to focus on making it fun to play, fun to watch and intuitive to understand for new people. sPvP has always been the neglected aspect of GW2, but ironically, it could be the foundation for GW2’s popularity to last a decade.

That is not to say that PvE or WvW is unimportant, but sPvP can be the gametype that attracts a whole new market to GW2. While the MMO crowd will chase after PvE, it is a stale gametype for most competitive players, and there will always be new MMOs with new PvE. WvW will always be popular as it is a competitive environment with very little consequence for individual mistakes, i.e. it is low pressure.

As an alternative, Arenanet could also focus on the GvG scene by including it as a new gametype. After all, GW2 is known as “Guild Wars 2”. This is a unique aspect to GW2 (and games like Ragnarok Online before it), and it is definitely very interesting to watch for a much larger playing base. While this may not become an esport (since paying 20 members a prize is hard to balance between reward and cost), it can foster a unique aspect of GW2 to grow in this new Twitch.tv era which has no equivalent.

Having thought about it, I’d say GvG is the way to go. If it becomes popular, then we can think about legitimising it as an esport and pay-outs.

I’m a big fan of e-spors. I believe e-sports is the future to gaming. I also believe that many people agree with me on that one.

But, in my humble opinion, the only way for GW2 to go e-sports, is to establish a different kind of PvP system. Something with more action, that I won’t have to be watching a tiny asura with a million spirits around him, capping slowly a point.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t dislike Dominion games – in fact, I’m a WvW player all the way. I dislike small-scale Dominion games though. The magnicifent thing about WvW is about how large it is and how much it gives you the “I’M GOING TO WAR” feeling. PvP is kinda meh at this matter.

The only, simple enough, action-packed, fast-paced, viewer-friendly setup that comes to mind, is establishing Deathmatch Arenas. Given how much time a fight, even a 1v1, can last between good fighters in GW2, I imagine that 1v1s, 3v3s and 5v5s in that system will become instantly really popular, especially if the tournament format for each match is best-out-of-3-games, or something.

Honestly, GvG has a huge advantage over PvP for GW2.

1. It is quite unique in the MMO scene
2. It is unique in the streaming scene
3. It is accessible to more players (since WvW is a low pressure environment to begin)
4. It is more interesting. Skills in GW2, especially with the camera angles, are not that interesting. With a 20v20 GvG with an objective focus, there can be a lot of innovations in the metagame.
5. It caters to a huge demand of the playerbase for guilds to mean more than a social hub.

andytango.2950:

Honestly, GvG has a huge advantage over PvP for GW2.

1. It is quite unique in the MMO scene
2. It is unique in the streaming scene
3. It is accessible to more players (since WvW is a low pressure environment to begin)
4. It is more interesting. Skills in GW2, especially with the camera angles, are not that interesting. With a 20v20 GvG with an objective focus, there can be a lot of innovations in the metagame.
5. It caters to a huge demand of the playerbase for guilds to mean more than a social hub.

How do you host 40 people and 40 desks with computers on them, on a scene, in front of a crowd?
Also, I don’t think 20v20 GvG is viewer-friendly. Maybe 10v10 could do it, but 20v20 looks like a big cluster of people marching, in my opinion. I know the tactics behind it can be pretty intense, but it has to look intense, not just be there, hidden underneath 20 norns in heavy armor.

AndrewSX.3794:

Nope.

Major issues:
-1 mode.
-that mode is incredibly boring and flawed
-balance is so bad it’s not even funny, even when taking in account only the 2/3 builds a prof have (implying that some prof have more than 1 decent build)
-reward structure and overall blending with the rest of the game are lackuster (might change in next months, but it’s too little too late)
-the overall combat system doesn’t allow to have deep mechanics in combat. Compared to Gw1, where you have hexes, enchantements, tide-changing interrupts, real team play, base holding + CtF + kill the lord + deathmatch in a single game mode, and so on, Gw2 just looks like a bad joke.

just … this…

+1

papryk.6273:

AndrewSX.3794:

Nope.

Major issues:
-1 mode.
-that mode is incredibly boring and flawed
-balance is so bad it’s not even funny, even when taking in account only the 2/3 builds a prof have (implying that some prof have more than 1 decent build)
-reward structure and overall blending with the rest of the game are lackuster (might change in next months, but it’s too little too late)
-the overall combat system doesn’t allow to have deep mechanics in combat. Compared to Gw1, where you have hexes, enchantements, tide-changing interrupts, real team play, base holding + CtF + kill the lord + deathmatch in a single game mode, and so on, Gw2 just looks like a bad joke.

just … this…

+1

+1 from me too

AndrewSX.3794:

Nope.

Major issues:
-1 mode.
-that mode is incredibly boring and flawed
-balance is so bad it’s not even funny, even when taking in account only the 2/3 builds a prof have (implying that some prof have more than 1 decent build)
-reward structure and overall blending with the rest of the game are lackuster (might change in next months, but it’s too little too late)
-the overall combat system doesn’t allow to have deep mechanics in combat. Compared to Gw1, where you have hexes, enchantements, tide-changing interrupts, real team play, base holding + CtF + kill the lord + deathmatch in a single game mode, and so on, Gw2 just looks like a bad joke.

Totally agree.

GW2 missed the esport train by throwing out what actually made GW pvp good. Maybe in GW3.

It’s incredibly unlikely. The standard is going up very quickly and making an esports-grade game does not play to the strengths of A.Net at all.

That is, A.Net has a really spectacular team of artists and some really good writers (yes, yes, insert Scarlett jokes here) that are doing a fantastic job of content creation. What they’re doing with the living world plays to their strengths as a company, and works really well as PvE content – content you complete once or a handful of times, then move on to the next thing.

A top notch competitive game works the other way – it’s not about content quantity, but quality. A good PvP game might have a very limited amount of content, but that content has been refined, tweaked, balanced, and optimized so that playing it the 1000th time is more rewarding than the 1st time. Arena.net hasn’t even managed to correct basic descriptive text errors 16 months after release.

The top tier esports titles are managed by organizations focused first and foremost on the continuous improvement of their product. They have limited content, but work extremely hard to ensure that every bit of it is as high quality as it can possibly be.

A.Net is an organization that focuses on the continuous expansion of their product. They have heaps of content and focus on constantly creating more, shepherding players to the next thing.

The latter is a great skill set for creating a living PvE game. It is unfortunately totally contrary to the type of development necessary to build an esports brand. It would take a huge, huge organizational philosophy change for GW2 to become a competitive esport.

Not only is that difficult even in the best of circumstances, but I don’t even think it makes any financial sense. A.Net has a great PvE game and is a great PvE game design studio. They should stick to what they are good at, and work on being better at what they are good at.

Which is not esports.

If you think gw2 is actiony you should check out blade and soul

The problem is is that Anet refuses to commit heavily to the e-sports scene, yet expect their game to magically take off by the community. News flash, the era for those kind of expectations have gone and past. A few years ago there was a void. Twitch was new and just getting up and running and Starcraft 2 was about to come out. Dota and LoL were not almost nonexistent in popularity. There was really no esport scene at this time outside of fighting game community and Starcraft 1 only had a niche in Korea. This would have been perfect to take the e-sports scene by storm.

But GW2 wasnt release then and was instead released a few years after this when the twin titans of Dota 2 and LoL took the esport scene by force. FPS games still had there niche among players and FGC also had their niche. Even SC2 has fallen off the scene a bit, so a game like GW2 has no room in the e-sports scene…

Here is the thing. Sponsers and e-sport organizations are not going to pick up an random game these days anymore. The company has to make an effort (by throwing vast amounts of money at the scene) in order to even get recognize by the e-sports scene. Look at Dota 2, Valve throws a 1 million dollar tournament for their game (this doesn’t include the venue which Im sure costs even more). When is Anet going to do that? Its cause Anet doesnt want to commit.

So what do we get instead? We get a half-kitten game. Both in PvP and PvE. Skills and traits are balanced around PvP, not PvE, and no separation is ever made. This is because the Devs see PvE as “too easy” (a Dev told me this in-game) and thus PvE never really needs to be balanced in terms of builds.

Anet needs to just concede at this point and stop trying to make PvP an esport. The majority of the player base lies in PvE. Focus on that.

Diviner.7405:

The problem is is that Anet refuses to commit heavily to the e-sports scene, yet expect their game to magically take off by the community. News flash, the era for those kind of expectations have gone and past. A few years ago there was a void. Twitch was new and just getting up and running and Starcraft 2 was about to come out. Dota and LoL were not almost nonexistent in popularity. There was really no esport scene at this time outside of fighting game community and Starcraft 1 only had a niche in Korea. This would have been perfect to take the e-sports scene by storm.

But GW2 wasnt release then and was instead released a few years after this when the twin titans of Dota 2 and LoL took the esport scene by force. FPS games still had there niche among players and FGC also had their niche. Even SC2 has fallen off the scene a bit, so a game like GW2 has no room in the e-sports scene…

Here is the thing. Sponsers and e-sport organizations are not going to pick up an random game these days anymore. The company has to make an effort (by throwing vast amounts of money at the scene) in order to even get recognize by the e-sports scene. Look at Dota 2, Valve throws a 1 million dollar tournament for their game (this doesn’t include the venue which Im sure costs even more). When is Anet going to do that? Its cause Anet doesnt want to commit.

So what do we get instead? We get a half-kitten game. Both in PvP and PvE. Skills and traits are balanced around PvP, not PvE, and no separation is ever made. This is because the Devs see PvE as “too easy” (a Dev told me this in-game) and thus PvE never really needs to be balanced in terms of builds.

Anet needs to just concede at this point and stop trying to make PvP an esport. The majority of the player base lies in PvE. Focus on that.

That is partially true. If you were to frequent the pvp forums you would hear everyone complaining that the game is balanced around pve and not pvp, and that’s why the game is unpopular. It’s more likely to be a combination of the two. Company can’t decide what it wants so it’s caught between mediocre pve and poor pvp support. They don’t want to make too many changes to once side for fear it would alienate the other. That’s why the pve content is a dps race and control and support are largely jokes, while the pvp contains far too much aoe splash damage, random spam and pets.

andytango.2950:

sPvP has always been the neglected aspect of GW2.

You had some good points, except for this point. PvP has had HUGE support precisely BECAUSE it was supposed to be their e-sport. Even before the game was released devs would comment on and say just as much. Feel free to google it. It’s only more recently that WvW has enjoyed anywhere near the same attention.

You are right about the GvG scene, it has (had?) the most potential. Long story short the PvP team can’t/won’t support GvG, google ‘Sacrx the Machine’ and his NDA leak. I’d provide the link but I don’t want to get banned again.

Did you see the vid of the ANet employee trolling a GvG match? The symbolism was obvious.

Short answer:

No.

Long answer:

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo-

SoPP.7034:

andytango.2950:

sPvP has always been the neglected aspect of GW2.

You had some good points, except for this point. PvP has had HUGE support precisely BECAUSE it was supposed to be their e-sport.

True.

And this turns out to be a double fiasco for the game as whole.

Spvp won’t become esport, ever – yet drains all the interest of devs, especially in terms of balancing. Thus you have a wvw which has been ignored for 12 months or so (and now that they’re looking at it thye’re just making a huge mess) and a PvE side which has been dropped in terms of tangibile updates (last DG update: March, AC. Then TAFU turned in LS Scarlet joke, and now Fractal update which doesn’t solve any of the issues of the content, apart worsening grinding), which have been watered down to fool-proof zerg farming temporary LS arcs.

It’s a lose-lose situation.

Not as long as PVP and PVE / WVW are not balanced separately.

I doubt that they even bother trying making it an Esport anymore!

No, and I hope they stop trying.

A good MMO can never become an eSport. Why? Look at what games rank the top of the eSports list: fighters, FPSs, and MOBAs. Now look at what they all have in common: very tight balancing as a result of linear combat systems.

A good MMO needs diversity and depth, which combined with the need for constant updates, results in a complex combat system which is basically impossible to balance like how you would need to balance an eSport.

eSports in my opinion trades off playing just for the sake of fun and a game being interesting to it being competitive. Personally, I don’t like that.

Xae Isareth.1364:

No, and I hope they stop trying.

A good MMO can never become an eSport. Why? Look at what games rank the top of the eSports list: fighters, FPSs, and MOBAs. Now look at what they all have in common: very tight balancing as a result of linear combat systems.

A good MMO needs diversity and depth, which combined with the need for constant updates, results in a complex combat system which is basically impossible to balance like how you would need to balance an eSport.

eSports in my opinion trades off playing just for the sake of fun and a game being interesting to it being competitive. Personally, I don’t like that.

Even though you seem like you have a good point, i would be bothered Gw2 being an Esport at all, PvP is good it really is, there are only few important things that made it fail and is sad

Xae Isareth.1364:

No, and I hope they stop trying.

A good MMO can never become an eSport. Why? Look at what games rank the top of the eSports list: fighters, FPSs, and MOBAs. Now look at what they all have in common: very tight balancing as a result of linear combat systems.

A good MMO needs diversity and depth, which combined with the need for constant updates, results in a complex combat system which is basically impossible to balance like how you would need to balance an eSport.

eSports in my opinion trades off playing just for the sake of fun and a game being interesting to it being competitive. Personally, I don’t like that.

This is wrong at all levels imaginable.

Just because an MMO hasn’t been an e-sport yet, that doesn’t mean it can’t happen. Specifically, Guild Wars 2, would have the biggest chances of making it, if Arenanet could just stop making inconsistent decisions and stop ignoring the professional PvP playerbase.

I’m not an FPS player as I hate those games, but as a MOBA player, I can tell you that referring to those games as linear, is the biggest mistake you can make to make yourself look clueless. There are tons of diversity and depth into gameplay and strategies in MOBA games, which is why, as a previous guy said a while ago, playing the game for the 1000th time, is more rewarding than playing it for the 1st time. And that’s how GW2 pvp should be like.

Your last phrase gives away the reasoning behind your previous statements; you’re a casual player and play for fun. Well, just because YOU play for fun, that doesn’t mean that we all should play for fun. And if, SOMEHOW (miracles, tons of good decisions by anet, etc) gw2 makes it into a successful MMO e-sport, this doesn’t mean that you HAVE to stop playing for fun. You can still do your thing, no one will get in your way. But, there are people like me, who can’t wait to test their skills, see how good they are, without grinding ranks, without capping points, just fighting, fighting, fighting.

And a word of note to everyone in this thread; we all know that at its current state, gw2 has 1% chance to become an e-sport. Pro teams quitting, boo hoo, come back and stuff. I’m assuming, that since we’re here discussing about the game, we all share the same love for it. Instead of being negative, next to “why gw2 won’t make it as an e-sport right now”, which frankly, has been said a thousand times and I’m getting bored of reading the same stuff over and over again for months now, maybe we should suggest some solutions to how it could be and what WE, the playerbase want. (I suggested the Deathmatch Arenas in a previous comment above, won’t repeat myself in this comment)

Morinmeth.9823:

we should suggest some solutions to how it could be and what WE, the playerbase want

GvG scene flushed out more.

PvP with a focus on fighting not on capping.

Will it?
-no
Why?
-not balance

Funny how Anet focus more on Pve Content and tries to aim for PvP eSport, doesn’t even make much sense.

No,

I think balancing an e-sport is incompatible with balancing an MMO.
I think that there is too much variation in different builds.
I think that because classes share conditions (i.e. bleeding, burning, etc.) you can’t tweak damage the way you may need to and balance conditions.
I think that rangers will always be junk or OP.
I think that warriors will always be junk or OP.
I think that stealth needs an actual hard counter.

Morinmeth.9823:

Xae Isareth.1364:

No, and I hope they stop trying.

A good MMO can never become an eSport. Why? Look at what games rank the top of the eSports list: fighters, FPSs, and MOBAs. Now look at what they all have in common: very tight balancing as a result of linear combat systems.

A good MMO needs diversity and depth, which combined with the need for constant updates, results in a complex combat system which is basically impossible to balance like how you would need to balance an eSport.

eSports in my opinion trades off playing just for the sake of fun and a game being interesting to it being competitive. Personally, I don’t like that.

This is wrong at all levels imaginable.

Just because an MMO hasn’t been an e-sport yet, that doesn’t mean it can’t happen. Specifically, Guild Wars 2, would have the biggest chances of making it, if Arenanet could just stop making inconsistent decisions and stop ignoring the professional PvP playerbase.

I’m not an FPS player as I hate those games, but as a MOBA player, I can tell you that referring to those games as linear, is the biggest mistake you can make to make yourself look clueless. There are tons of diversity and depth into gameplay and strategies in MOBA games, which is why, as a previous guy said a while ago, playing the game for the 1000th time, is more rewarding than playing it for the 1st time. And that’s how GW2 pvp should be like.

I think you misunderstand my point. I specifically talked about the combat system itself. Would LoL still be an eSport if it had tens of builds each hero can chose from? And I don’t mean just taking certain items, I mean completely changing the way that hero works. Each hero is designed to be played in a certain way, with heavy restrictions on how much you can customize it, it makes it easier to balance.

Furthermore, LoL doesn’t update its existing heroes, they don’t get new mechanics, or new skills. That’s fine with LoL, but if GW2 never updates its existing classes, it just wouldn’t work.

Your last phrase gives away the reasoning behind your previous statements; you’re a casual player and play for fun. Well, just because YOU play for fun, that doesn’t mean that we all should play for fun. And if, SOMEHOW (miracles, tons of good decisions by anet, etc) gw2 makes it into a successful MMO e-sport, this doesn’t mean that you HAVE to stop playing for fun. You can still do your thing, no one will get in your way. But, there are people like me, who can’t wait to test their skills, see how good they are, without grinding ranks, without capping points, just fighting, fighting, fighting.

When you go on the eSport route, you take your entire game on that route. You don’t just make a small section of the game to satisfy the eSport guys. No, you condition every aspect of that game towards being an eSport.

Why don’t we have as many skills as GW1? Have they not go enough manpower? No, GW2’s team is multiple times bigger than GW1’s. Do they just want to reduce diversity for the sake of it? Why would any dev do that. You can see how their decision to make GW2 into an eSport influences the game.

Look at what Anet did for the WvW season. They basically put skills and class updates on hold until the season was over. Even if I don’t care about competitiveness, I am suffering from their decision to foster competitiveness.

To conclude, yes, I play for fun, but the question is, would GW2 be more successful gambling itself down the eSport route or down the route of becoming a really fun and diverse MMO?

Never. For starters esports games all have something in common they are easy to follow as a spectator or fellow player. What we have here is tonnes of ai cluttering the screen, leprechauns whose skill animations which are difficult to read and lastly particle effects. The Conquest mode isn’t entertaining there are no clutch plays maybe legacy but that’s it the game is the same from start to finish. The skill ceiling is pretty low. You can roll a hammbow/spirit ranger/etc and go out and faceroll

Also when Devs release maps such as spirit watch which as a total flop then follow it up with sky hammer then it really shows that they have no idea what they are doing

Oh and please stop calling zerg vs zerg gvg.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

the sPvP population of gw2 is too low.

need more PvE / WvW people to try sPvP.

else no esports.

need better profession designs that are geared less toward zerg vs zerg gameplay and more with individual performance. doing so would make for an interesting profession and combat system, and players would be more inclined to participate in spvp. more buttons to press on the combat ui would help too, because the auto attack, dodge, swap, dodge, swap, swap and long cool down wars are really terrible and uninteresting. additionally, profession development needs a heck of a lot more love than just turtle paced trait number reshuffling when it comes to tackling the current major balance and meta problems.

Swagger.1459:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

the sPvP population of gw2 is too low.

need more PvE / WvW people to try sPvP.

else no esports.

need better profession designs that are geared less toward zerg vs zerg gameplay and more with individual performance. doing so would make for an interesting profession and combat system, and players would be more inclined to participate in spvp. more buttons to press on the combat ui would help too, because the auto attack, dodge, swap, dodge, swap, swap and long cool down wars are really terrible and uninteresting. additionally, profession development needs a heck of a lot more love than just turtle paced trait number reshuffling when it comes to tackling the current major balance and meta problems.

I can guarantee you that if playing PvP somehow now gives bags than champ trains a hour, sPvP will become the most popular thing in GW2. Frankly, a lot of people are just there for the loot and so no matter how good you make content, they won’t run it unless it has good loot.

sPvP is about down to individual performance as you can get without making it 1v1, its just too bad it doesn’t have a deathmatch mode. WvW is designed around zerg vs zerg but that’s the way its supposed to work. Its supposed to emulate large-scale warfare.

they are working on loot currently so hopefully profession revamps are in the works as well.

yes, the spvp area is designed around small groups of players vs other small groups of players, but that does not mean professions and combat for the sake of combat are good at all. given the current state of things, death match mode would only highlite how much more terrible the professions, combat systems and meta really are.

That boat sailed and under its current heading it will never become a E-Sport title.

I might be misunderstanding “E-Sport” but to me its being competitive inside the game

WoW has two forums of E-Sport Raiding (which they showcase at blizzcon) where they have 2 top tier guilds race each other for the fastest clear. Then they have straight up PvP tournaments.

Also one thing that works for blizzard is there so big. Sadly Guildwars 2 does not have the player base to support a real esport bid.

When I think of E-Sport’s I think of games like
Starcraft 1 and 2
Counter Strike
World of Warcraft

These are all mega named titles that just about anyone would know.

Sacrx pretty much covered all of this in his expose’ months ago.

But essentially, sPvP will never be an esport.

The WvW community had the GvG scene heading in that direction, with far far more viewers on the unofficial GvG streams than on official GW2 streams of sPvP. But Arenanet felt threatened, and they nuked it before it could take off.

Morinmeth.9823:

Your last phrase gives away the reasoning behind your previous statements; you’re a casual player and play for fun. Well, just because YOU play for fun, that doesn’t mean that we all should play for fun. And if, SOMEHOW (miracles, tons of good decisions by anet, etc) gw2 makes it into a successful MMO e-sport, this doesn’t mean that you HAVE to stop playing for fun. You can still do your thing, no one will get in your way. But, there are people like me, who can’t wait to test their skills, see how good they are, without grinding ranks, without capping points, just fighting, fighting, fighting.

As someone that HAS done the E-Sports scene and won cash prizes, you really can have fun in the process. If you’re not having fun, quit. Do not waste your time. Do not waste your sponsor’s time. Do not waste the time of your opponent.

I’ve fought so many people who thought that Street Fighter was a numbers game. It was all about the frames, all about the damage per second, all about the S rank characters. They were predictable. They were boring. They never made it anywhere in life.

Then I fought some people that shared a true passion for the game and became good BECAUSE they had fun playing it. They were very unique, very unpredictable and kitten hard to read. They adapted, they knew the game inside and out and they loved every second of it.

It wasn’t a chore to anyone that made it to the finals. It was our love. The minute you tell people that playing for fun is the wrong way, you lose any grounds you have in a true E-Sport scene.

Maybe you should stop looking for the fastest way to win and start remembering how to play the game? You’ll make it to my level that way. I guarantee it.

The playerbase is too small for an esport. PvP must become free to play for esports to even be a possibility.