Guild Wars 2

Since there is now (or I guess soon) a solo queue being implemented, along with a solo queue leaderboard… my question is this.

Now that a solo queue LB is being implemented, are the team queues going to get a new leaderboard aswell? I feel if it get’s a reset to where teams (or guilds) are ranking instead of individual players, it will serve as a more accurate ranking of who the top TEAMS are (not just people who play in premades often and farm pugs). Thoughts on whether a team queue leaderboard should be implemented?

~Vöz

I see no reason to reset the leaderboards because nearly every single person in top 1000 has got there faced full premades and defeated them. You just can’t simply farm pugs into that ranking. Anything below top 1000 isn’t really worth resetting the entire leaderboard for.

The leaderboards needs a reset, the current leaderboards is very bad and being abused.
Its very uncompetitve and people rank down faster than they rank up on the leaderboards due to people abusing it and being inactive.

I’ll explain current leaderboards with a bunch of images.
*Img1, This is the start of my explaination
*Img2, Notice none of the top 25 play in 20 hour period
*Img3, Team sleepy wins 5 games and loses 6 (idk how they still so high on leaderboards), Jumper wins 10 games and loses 1, Dreamer goes from 5th to 1st by just not playing (10 games won out of 11, Jumper should be #1, you’ll see why he isn’t soon).
*Img4, Jumper wins 6 games and loses 0 (if people above you don’t play you don’t advance)
*Img5, Supcute plays a tpvp wins 5 games and loses 2 and drops 2 spots and Jumper advances, Dreamer is still #1 and hasn’t played a game.
*Img6, Jumper wins 7 games and loses 0, but remains 2nd because Dreamer doesn’t play any games.
*Img7, Jumper becomes #1 and dreamer gets knocked off top 25 (most likely due to leaderboard decay, I think this is when it was implemented, I’m pretty sure he hasn’t played in a month and when a month hits you drop 25 spots I assume).
*Img8, 22 days later, I assume Dreamer noticed he dropped and he played 1 game (becomes #2 from 1 game, while Jumper had to play over 20 games just to get to #2, this fair??), I notice some other people did that as well like Kaypud.
*Img9, This image just shows that Dreamer still chilling on leaderboard as #2 after just 1 win which was 16 days ago. Jumper gives inactive players chance to be #1 (by playing 2 games) but he just proves he too kitten good.

This is how abusive the leaderboard is, you’ll see a lot of top players abusing the leaderboards like this. Team sleepy won the last major tournament, they’ll probably win NA, they play somewhat active on leaderboards but they aint top 5, top 5 reserved for inactive players that win 1 game every month just to stay top 5 (exception of a few, like Jumper, hes been on a 33 game win streak he continues to prove that hes still the best and that people haven’t got better than him).

I cant prove this but, I’d wager most of those guys that don’t tpvp as much and abuse the leaderboards, they playing hotjoins and farming rank point xp, I don’t follow streams so I cant tell if some of them went from rank 40 to rank 60 in that time period. Those guys maybe the best (prolly not, lucky 1 win over solo que wouldn’t slip my mind) but they are abusing the leaderboards, and the leaderboards deserves a reset. And because of the inactivity of players so high up, it doesn’t give anyone a chance to advance higher because the people higher than them aren’t playing as frequently and giving them a chance to take there spots, the only time someone takes there spot is when they lose games, and seeing sleepy lose games like that and win major tournaments it wouldn’t slip my mind that those people abusing would lose just like sleepy did, but because of inactivity they’ll remain top 25 as long as they play GW2 and abuse the system.

Oh and lastly, I wouldn’t really blame people for abusing leaderboards, its just the current tournament system is very uncompetitive and the hotjoin system offers too much rank point xp to resist its hard to not abuse pvp. As long as hotjoins offers easy unrisky access to massive rank points and tournament system doesn’t really make you famous at all by continuing playing it and winning all day long, people will just continue to abuse the leaderboards, even when solo que comes out once someone gets top 100 they’ll probably just chill on it and slowly make there way to the top and make sure they win a game every month so they don’t get dropped.

I don’t see any reason why someone top 5 should play a game, all they do is risk being in the top 5 and they’ll never advance because like you saw with the jumper scenario I discussed you just don’t advance if none of the other people play, the game allows you to stay top 5 if you don’t play for up to a month so why play games and drop when you don’t have to and you have crazy amount of easy and unrisky rank points to rank up in hotjoins. It aint no brainer that those top players will chose the unrisky move and crazy easy access to rank point exp, theres no reward for playing tpvp when your up there, theres nothing that makes you more famous than just sitting on leaderboard and boasting your top 25.

uberkingkong.8041:

The leaderboards needs a reset, the current leaderboards is very bad and being abused.
Its very uncompetitve and people rank down faster than they rank up on the leaderboards due to people abusing it and being inactive.

I’ll explain current leaderboards with a bunch of images.
*Img1, This is the start of my explaination
*Img2, Notice none of the top 25 play in 20 hour period
*Img3, Team sleepy wins 5 games and loses 6 (idk how they still so high on leaderboards), Jumper wins 10 games and loses 1, Dreamer goes from 5th to 1st by just not playing (10 games won out of 11, Jumper should be #1, you’ll see why he isn’t soon).
*Img4, Jumper wins 6 games and loses 0 (if people above you don’t play you don’t advance)
*Img5, Supcute plays a tpvp wins 5 games and loses 2 and drops 2 spots and Jumper advances, Dreamer is still #1 and hasn’t played a game.
*Img6, Jumper wins 7 games and loses 0, but remains 2nd because Dreamer doesn’t play any games.
*Img7, Jumper becomes #1 and dreamer gets knocked off top 25 (most likely due to leaderboard decay, I think this is when it was implemented, I’m pretty sure he hasn’t played in a month and when a month hits you drop 25 spots I assume).
*Img8, 22 days later, I assume Dreamer noticed he dropped and he played 1 game (becomes #2 from 1 game, while Jumper had to play over 20 games just to get to #2, this fair??), I notice some other people did that as well like Kaypud.
*Img9, This image just shows that Dreamer still chilling on leaderboard as #2 after just 1 win which was 16 days ago. Jumper gives inactive players chance to be #1 (by playing 2 games) but he just proves he too kitten good.

This is how abusive the leaderboard is, you’ll see a lot of top players abusing the leaderboards like this. Team sleepy won the last major tournament, they’ll probably win NA, they play somewhat active on leaderboards but they aint top 5, top 5 reserved for inactive players that win 1 game every month just to stay top 5 (exception of a few, like Jumper, hes been on a 33 game win streak he continues to prove that hes still the best and that people haven’t got better than him).

I cant prove this but, I’d wager most of those guys that don’t tpvp as much and abuse the leaderboards, they playing hotjoins and farming rank point xp, I don’t follow streams so I cant tell if some of them went from rank 40 to rank 60 in that time period. Those guys maybe the best (prolly not, lucky 1 win over solo que wouldn’t slip my mind) but they are abusing the leaderboards, and the leaderboards deserves a reset. And because of the inactivity of players so high up, it doesn’t give anyone a chance to advance higher because the people higher than them aren’t playing as frequently and giving them a chance to take there spots, the only time someone takes there spot is when they lose games, and seeing sleepy lose games like that and win major tournaments it wouldn’t slip my mind that those people abusing would lose just like sleepy did, but because of inactivity they’ll remain top 25 as long as they play GW2 and abuse the system.

Oh and lastly, I wouldn’t really blame people for abusing leaderboards, its just the current tournament system is very uncompetitive and the hotjoin system offers too much rank point xp to resist its hard to not abuse pvp. As long as hotjoins offers easy unrisky access to massive rank points and tournament system doesn’t really make you famous at all by continuing playing it and winning all day long, people will just continue to abuse the leaderboards, even when solo que comes out once someone gets top 100 they’ll probably just chill on it and slowly make there way to the top and make sure they win a game every month so they don’t get dropped.

I don’t see any reason why someone top 5 should play a game, all they do is risk being in the top 5 and they’ll never advance because like you saw with the jumper scenario I discussed you just don’t advance if none of the other people play, the game allows you to stay top 5 if you don’t play for up to a month so why play games and drop when you don’t have to and you have crazy amount of easy and unrisky rank points to rank up in hotjoins. It aint no brainer that those top players will chose the unrisky move and crazy easy access to rank point exp, theres no reward for playing tpvp when your up there, theres nothing that makes you more famous than just sitting on leaderboard and boasting your top 25.

You forgot to mention that Jumper/Acandis/Java only play their smurf accounts while any other good teams are queing, making it nearly impossible for their main accounts to suffer rating loss while they increase slowly due to losses of people above them playing their mains, or queing when no-one else is.

^^ LB are a fail lol we all know this.

Just learn to take leaderboards as a joke and all will be good.

Chase.8415:

I no reason to reset the leaderboards because nearly every single person in top 1000 has got there faced full premades and defeated them. You just can’t simply farm pugs into that ranking. Anything below top 1000 isn’t really worth resetting the entire leaderboard for.

Lol the rules are changing so must the leader boards it has nothing to do with what they did because the system was found to be flawed they would not be changing it otherwise. If the leader board should stand it will just lessen the credibility of both the leader board and Anet. It’s not like the leader board has any as it stands anyway so a reset will just allow teams the chance at a spot worth having.

Edit: The leader boards were not a complete failure they brought a huge amount of players to spvp when it once was a no mans land.

Not to mention all of the people who solo queued when they were bored and tanked their rating. The team leader board should only reflect wins when you’re in a TEAM, so it should reset as well.

uberkingkong.8041:

leaderboard stuff, forgetting about glicko

Elo based system basics:

If you’re winning and not advancing, it’s because the rating gap between you and the next person is too large for one win to bridge it. If you’re only playing against people who are like rank 900+, it will take you a lot of wins to gain enough rating to move up, and one loss will drop you like a stone (and you’ll get those losses btw, even if it’s to smurfs, it’s very close to inevitable). If the opposition is weaker than you it’s quite easy to go 4 wins 1 loss and when the leaderboards update you’re lower than before. If the gap between you and the next guy up is large enough, it can still take you several wins to pass them even if you’re playing against strong opposition.

BTW smurfing won’t help unless you’re just doing it to protect your rating when you’re not running with your main team, or you get matched against those who are around the same rating as your main account and take more rating from them than they should have lost because your smurf is low rated.

Just like elo hell only exists for those who are unable to adapt their approach to deal with lower skilled games.

I know everyone has their own mythology around elo, but it’s just math. The only way to exploit it is to find a way to make 2+2=5.

Mammoth.1975:

uberkingkong.8041:

leaderboard stuff, forgetting about glicko

Elo based system basics:

If you’re winning and not advancing, it’s because the rating gap between you and the next person is too large for one win to bridge it. If you’re only playing against people who are like rank 900+, it will take you a lot of wins to gain enough rating to move up, and one loss will drop you like a stone (and you’ll get those losses btw, even if it’s to smurfs, it’s very close to inevitable). If the opposition is weaker than you it’s quite easy to go 4 wins 1 loss and when the leaderboards update you’re lower than before. If the gap between you and the next guy up is large enough, it can still take you several wins to pass them even if you’re playing against strong opposition.

BTW smurfing won’t help unless you’re just doing it to protect your rating when you’re not running with your main team, or you get matched against those who are around the same rating as your main account and take more rating from them than they should have lost because your smurf is low rated. Are you telling me I have to accept this rottend decay system? Because thats how there system works ? Because if you are I categorically reject that. They can and should do better.

Just like elo hell only exists for those who are unable to adapt their approach to deal with lower skilled games.

I know everyone has their own mythology around elo, but it’s just math. The only way to exploit it is to find a way to make 2+2=5.

You are not saying anything people do not know. People can’t advance because they don’t have the opportunity to play enough games against people ranked higher then them because a lot of these higher ranked players either rarely play(the super slow decay system allows them to stay ranked highly without playing) or they intentionally only play a few games here and there and use smurf accounts. The rating decay needs to be passed through again end of story you can chant Elo all day long it doesn’t change the fact that the decay system sucks.

Thesilentflute.8761:

Chase.8415:

I no reason to reset the leaderboards because nearly every single person in top 1000 has got there faced full premades and defeated them. You just can’t simply farm pugs into that ranking. Anything below top 1000 isn’t really worth resetting the entire leaderboard for.

Lol the rules are changing so must the leader boards it has nothing to do with what they did because the system was found to be flawed they would not be changing it otherwise. If the leader board should stand it will just lessen the credibility of both the leader board and Anet. It’s not like the leader board has any as it stands anyway so a reset will just allow teams the chance at a spot worth having.

Edit: The leader boards were not a complete failure they brought a huge amount of players to spvp when it once was a no mans land.

How are the rules changing exactly? I thought everyone quit soloq-ing because they were getting stomped 500-0 every match… Atleast thats what these forums tell me, in which case the leaderboards are already representative of team play.

Leaderboards should just be reset with the new patch.

If players are so good to be in the top 100, they can do it again in a weekend.

seems like none of you read the OP

he is asking for a team-leaderboard.

to answer on topic: i think it wont happen for now, maybe in the future. but the problem would be that they had to implement a new queue for 5-player-teams only which means another splitted queue.

would be like this:
- ranked soloQ (no 2/3/4/5 setups allowed)
- ranked 5p-teamQ (no 1/2/3/4 setups allowed)
- unranked whatever (1/2/3/4/5 players) teamQ

now regarding what the dev’s mentioned before, i think they are aware of ‘under-population’ of the leaderboards and therefore i guess only big pvp population will bring us another split/different queue

kito.1827:

seems like none of you read the OP

he is asking for a team-leaderboard.

to answer on topic: i think it wont happen for now, maybe in the future. but the problem would be that they had to implement a new queue for 5-player-teams only which means another splitted queue.

would be like this:
- ranked soloQ (no 2/3/4/5 setups allowed)
- ranked 5p-teamQ (no 1/2/3/4 setups allowed)
- unranked whatever (1/2/3/4/5 players) teamQ

now regarding what the dev’s mentioned before, i think they are aware of ‘under-population’ of the leaderboards and therefore i guess only big pvp population will bring us another split/different queue

Team leaderboard is needed in order to reduce team swapping – which is rampant in NA.

further than that, who will count as a member of the team?
will you only have to represent the team at the time queueing to count for them or will you have to be a team member for a certain time?

if representing is enough, teams will just temporarily form guilds to be at the top of the leaderboards, found new smurf-guilds to bash lowranks and so forth…

so, too many problems would come along with implementing of so called ‘team queue leaderboard’

Defektive.7283:

Leaderboards should just be reset with the new patch.

If players are so good to be in the top 100, they can do it again in a weekend.

Obviously this current leaderboard is a fluke, and I agree with you. If they good enough to be in top 100 they should be able to do it over a weekend.

The current leaderboard all thakittens a good representation of is people that premade and people that solo que, premades beating solo que. The current leaderboard doesn’t show team vs team or solo que vs solo que because theres teams facing solo que which highly screws it up and you know what this current leaderboard should just go away and we should start with fresh leaderboards for both solo que and team que because you cant prove the best teams with this one because one team could be facing other teams while another team could be on a roll with solo ques and obviously solo que is facing teams so this current leaderboard shouldn’t exist, perhaps only in the archieves just like the QP leaderboard.

I’m pretty sure this current leaderboard will be the team que leaderboard and that’s pretty messed up if you ask me, because your going to have a tough time ranking up in the team que while these guys play only 1 game a month because they are the ones that attend sotg they are the ones who can get the GW2 developers to do things that benefit them. That’s why hotjoin isn’t toned down for rank points xp because they need easy ways of getting high ranks while they chill on top 100 on leaderboard. If there was no easy mode to rank point xp in hotjoins, you bet your kitten they’d be in tpvp more and there’d be more fluctuation because I know they don’t want to be a lousy rank 40 there entire GW2 time they play it.

uberkingkong.8041:

Defektive.7283:

Leaderboards should just be reset with the new patch.

If players are so good to be in the top 100, they can do it again in a weekend.

Obviously this current leaderboard is a fluke, and I agree with you. If they good enough to be in top 100 they should be able to do it over a weekend.

The current leaderboard all thakittens a good representation of is people that premade and people that solo que, premades beating solo que. The current leaderboard doesn’t show team vs team or solo que vs solo que because theres teams facing solo que which highly screws it up and you know what this current leaderboard should just go away and we should start with fresh leaderboards for both solo que and team que because you cant prove the best teams with this one because one team could be facing other teams while another team could be on a roll with solo ques and obviously solo que is facing teams so this current leaderboard shouldn’t exist, perhaps only in the archieves just like the QP leaderboard.

I’m pretty sure this current leaderboard will be the team que leaderboard and that’s pretty messed up if you ask me, because your going to have a tough time ranking up in the team que while these guys play only 1 game a month because they are the ones that attend sotg they are the ones who can get the GW2 developers to do things that benefit them. That’s why hotjoin isn’t toned down for rank points xp because they need easy ways of getting high ranks while they chill on top 100 on leaderboard. If there was no easy mode to rank point xp in hotjoins, you bet your kitten they’d be in tpvp more and there’d be more fluctuation because I know they don’t want to be a lousy rank 40 there entire GW2 time they play it.

Ill start with I believe a team queue should be added.

However, as we know that is currently not coming I challenge the argument that if players are ‘good enough’ they will get back into the top 100. If thats the case why don’t we reset the leaderboards every week, or every other day… I mean, if the players are good enough they will just rise back up their right? A reset will not fix this issue either. If we do a reset unworthy players will still get carried in the early days of the rest and still end up with very inflated ranks and we will be back here. Instead of a ladder reset, they need to adjust their algorithms for rating decay.

Leaderboards atm are mostly full of people afraid to queue with their main accounts. SoloQ should be the only thing taken seriously when evaluating a person. Luck can be a part of it. But a great player can make the difference. Baddies will always hide behind good players on their team.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Leaderboards atm are mostly full of people afraid to queue with their main accounts. SoloQ should be the only thing taken seriously when evaluating a person. Luck can be a part of it. But a great player can make the difference. Baddies will always hide behind good players on their team.

And those baddies can very well be carried all the way into the top 100. And since SoloQ is the only thing we should take seriously they must be good, right?

Parisalchuk.9230:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Leaderboards atm are mostly full of people afraid to queue with their main accounts. SoloQ should be the only thing taken seriously when evaluating a person. Luck can be a part of it. But a great player can make the difference. Baddies will always hide behind good players on their team.

And those baddies can very well be carried all the way into the top 100. And since SoloQ is the only thing we should take seriously they must be good, right?

With the lack of communication, baddies are harder to carry. It really depends on each person’s individual ability to recognize the situation and handle it accordingly.

edit: and I respect those who queue often who are on leaderboards. Just hate hovering above well-known names who take like a couple weeks off on their smurf accounts.

Team que leaderboard is going to be leaderboard right now, I already know it.
They need to reset team que leaderboard as well though because theres a lot of junk and when I say junk I mean inactive players that’ll never play again and it’ll just continue to make it so you rank down faster than you rank up. Along with all this inaccurate data on the leaderboard because some of the players aren’t a team and some aren’t solo que, therefore they need to get rid of the current leaderboard and start fresh leaderboard both ways.

uberkingkong.8041:

Team que leaderboard is going to be leaderboard right now, I already know it.
They need to reset team que leaderboard as well though because theres a lot of junk and when I say junk I mean inactive players that’ll never play again and it’ll just continue to make it so you rank down faster than you rank up. Along with all this inaccurate data on the leaderboard because some of the players aren’t a team and some aren’t solo que, therefore they need to get rid of the current leaderboard and start fresh leaderboard both ways.

SoloQ players will slowly be filtered out of TeamQ. If you reset the boards it wont matter. Temp teams will fill up, due to first day matchmaking they can jump high on the leaderboard playing bad teams and there they will stay again, so what did we achieve in the first place?

Kwll.1468:

You are not saying anything people do not know. People can’t advance because they don’t have the opportunity to play enough games against people ranked higher then them because a lot of these higher ranked players either rarely play(the super slow decay system allows them to stay ranked highly without playing) or they intentionally only play a few games here and there and use smurf accounts. The rating decay needs to be passed through again end of story you can chant Elo all day long it doesn’t change the fact that the decay system sucks.

Have you thought this through? The players at the top didn’t get to the top by playing against people who were higher rated than them either, because there weren’t any. In fact, for the first little while, there were no high rated players at all. Until the below average players started losing rating to their opponents.

A better win percentage against the same level of competition, or a much better win percentage against lesser competition is what you’re looking at.

Shananigans.8412:

You forgot to mention that Jumper/Acandis/Java only play their smurf accounts while any other good teams are queing, making it nearly impossible for their main accounts to suffer rating loss while they increase slowly due to losses of people above them playing their mains, or queing when no-one else is.

What shananigans said, teams queing when nobody else is which leads you to face solo que, if they reset the team leaderboard you wont have anyone accusing others of them queing at odd hours to have high chance of facing solo que as a premade because there will be no more solo que to easily make your way to the top. I’ll say it again, current leaderboard is a mix of premades facing solo que and solo que facing premades so both team leaderboards and solo que leaderboards need to start fresh and this current leaderboard needs to go into the archieves if anything.

If it doesn’t start fresh, the current top players will just continue to abuse the leaderboards and nothing will change due to abuse and automatically being #1 from the get go from previously destroying solo que while a team.

Told you guys team que wouldn’t get a new leaderboard.
If you ask me its dumb, because yesterday I went from 88% to 90% in 2 wins then I dropped 83% after 2 losses. You can yap about ELO system but fact is you drop crazy fast, don’t expect to see many people going up team que leaderboard because its already corrupt.

Solo queue is getting its own leaderboard. They just need games in order to start ranking people

You being in the percentile adds so much insight into why you post the way you do….