Guild Wars 2

As title says, at this time its a bit overpowered.

OP != bug

In addition, as its been made abundantly clear in this subforum, kill specifically the sun spirit before engaging the ranger himself and you should be just fine. This is currently the only even near viable build for Ranger in high end play and they dont want to shift the meta until atleast after PAX.

Well I don’t think what the spirits do is a problem, but the fact that the cooldown starts after they summon them instead of after they die. If its not a bug, then guardian spirit weapons and necro pets are bugged then.

Aza.2105:

Well I don’t think what the spirits do is a problem, but the fact that the cooldown starts after they summon them instead of after they die. If its not a bug, then guardian spirit weapons and necro pets are bugged then.

Even if, in that case, it is a bug, ‘fixing’ it will completely destroy the Ranger again, thus shifting meta before GW’s first major tournament for this title. Again, its not going to happen.

Or Engis turrets

Ok but let spirits attack then.
You can’t compare them with minions, spirit weapons or turrets. They’re not designed to do the same thing and they’ve got a very long 60s CD btw.

just nerf the body blocking on AI. would solve a lot of headaches.

meikodesign.6471:

Ok but let spirits attack then.
You can’t compare them with minions, spirit weapons or turrets. They’re not designed to do the same thing and they’ve got a very long 60s CD btw.

Shield of avenger and bow of truth have 60 secs cds and they don’t attack. Have lower hp and die if you use a skill (if not traited for it).

Aza.2105:

meikodesign.6471:

Ok but let spirits attack then.
You can’t compare them with minions, spirit weapons or turrets. They’re not designed to do the same thing and they’ve got a very long 60s CD btw.

Shield of avenger and bow of truth have 60 secs cds and they don’t attack. Have lower hp and die if you use a skill (if not traited for it).

No, instead the bow shoots at allies healing them and the shield creates a Shield of Absorption during combat. Regardless, those are Spirit Weapons, minions are minions, turrets are turrets and spirits are spirits. They are all their own entities.

Parisalchuk.9230:

Aza.2105:

meikodesign.6471:

Ok but let spirits attack then.
You can’t compare them with minions, spirit weapons or turrets. They’re not designed to do the same thing and they’ve got a very long 60s CD btw.

Shield of avenger and bow of truth have 60 secs cds and they don’t attack. Have lower hp and die if you use a skill (if not traited for it).

No, instead the bow shoots at allies healing them and the shield creates a Shield of Absorption during combat. Regardless, those are Spirit Weapons, minions are minions, turrets are turrets and spirits are spirits. They are all their own entities.

My point was to show that neither one of those spirit weapons attack and they have 60 sec cds. You can try to individualize them, but in the end they are all summons with different properties.

Aza.2105:

Parisalchuk.9230:

Aza.2105:

meikodesign.6471:

Ok but let spirits attack then.
You can’t compare them with minions, spirit weapons or turrets. They’re not designed to do the same thing and they’ve got a very long 60s CD btw.

Shield of avenger and bow of truth have 60 secs cds and they don’t attack. Have lower hp and die if you use a skill (if not traited for it).

No, instead the bow shoots at allies healing them and the shield creates a Shield of Absorption during combat. Regardless, those are Spirit Weapons, minions are minions, turrets are turrets and spirits are spirits. They are all their own entities.

My point was to show that neither one of those spirit weapons attack and they have 60 sec cds. You can try to individualize them, but in the end they are all summons with different properties.

Lol, so you agree – they have different properties. In the case of minions and guard sprits they follow you. Rangers have to spec into that, otherwise they are like turrets. Difference between turrets and Ranger spirits, the turrets auto attack where I have to be active for my spirits to do anything.

They are all different things, and as you explicitly say, they have different properties. CD is one of them.

Don’t most skills that have active effects with cooldowns have the timer start immediately?

Necro forms for example, don’t the timers start when you push the button and not when you leave the form? Same with dancing blade for thief. While they’re spinning, the cooldown is going down. Same with the guardian summon weapons. Same with ele weapons. Etc etc.

The only issue I’ve heard that could be legitimate is if the frost spirit buffs are honestly stacking because, once traited, the buff has a different name so the untraited spirit and the traited spirit each have an active buff on the target. I’ve never verified this is true, but it was brought up in the other thread.

Parisalchuk.9230:

Aza.2105:

Parisalchuk.9230:

Aza.2105:

meikodesign.6471:

Ok but let spirits attack then.
You can’t compare them with minions, spirit weapons or turrets. They’re not designed to do the same thing and they’ve got a very long 60s CD btw.

Shield of avenger and bow of truth have 60 secs cds and they don’t attack. Have lower hp and die if you use a skill (if not traited for it).

No, instead the bow shoots at allies healing them and the shield creates a Shield of Absorption during combat. Regardless, those are Spirit Weapons, minions are minions, turrets are turrets and spirits are spirits. They are all their own entities.

My point was to show that neither one of those spirit weapons attack and they have 60 sec cds. You can try to individualize them, but in the end they are all summons with different properties.

Lol, so you agree – they have different properties. In the case of minions and guard sprits they follow you. Rangers have to spec into that, otherwise they are like turrets. Difference between turrets and Ranger spirits, the turrets auto attack where I have to be active for my spirits to do anything.

They are all different things, and as you explicitly say, they have different properties. CD is one of them.

So rangers shouldn’t be punished when their spirits get destroyed?

Parisalchuk.9230:

Aza.2105:

Parisalchuk.9230:

Aza.2105:

meikodesign.6471:

Ok but let spirits attack then.
You can’t compare them with minions, spirit weapons or turrets. They’re not designed to do the same thing and they’ve got a very long 60s CD btw.

Shield of avenger and bow of truth have 60 secs cds and they don’t attack. Have lower hp and die if you use a skill (if not traited for it).

No, instead the bow shoots at allies healing them and the shield creates a Shield of Absorption during combat. Regardless, those are Spirit Weapons, minions are minions, turrets are turrets and spirits are spirits. They are all their own entities.

My point was to show that neither one of those spirit weapons attack and they have 60 sec cds. You can try to individualize them, but in the end they are all summons with different properties.

Lol, so you agree – they have different properties. In the case of minions and guard sprits they follow you. Rangers have to spec into that, otherwise they are like turrets. Difference between turrets and Ranger spirits, the turrets auto attack where I have to be active for my spirits to do anything.

They are all different things, and as you explicitly say, they have different properties. CD is one of them.

Spirits act as party-wide signets releasing a buff in an aoe-radius. It’s cd is low compared to spirit weapons because it begins when it’s summoned. You have a complete spirit build when you go into 1 trait-line. For a guard, he’d have to go into 3 different traitlines to achieve a decent spirit weapon build. Even so, if the spirit weapons are killed, it’s over for the guard. They don’t have the sustain to live through things without utilities (No condi cleanse, no easy access to protection, no evade skills).

If we were to compare:
—————————————————
Spirits have a trait which make them more tanky. Spirit weapons do not.
Spirit weapons can attack yes, but they die so easily and their attacks are so subpar it’s not even worth it.
Spirits can trait to being useful when they die. Spirit weapons—when they die, it equates to FML.
Sure, you have to trait into spirits following you, but it’s not as stupid as the trait “When spirit weapons are commanded, they do not die” —- If we want spirit weapons to be viable we HAVE to take that trait, and that’s pretty stupid. We have a trait that also makes them last longer, but when they get focus-fired, it doesn’t even matter, the cd will always be 60 when they die.

Yes they are all different. But spirits have the better—if not overpowered, design. They are passive, but they also have active skills. They can’t attack, but they can almost act better as a shield (via bodyblocking) than the shield of the avenger. Plus, they are given to the most weapon-wise self sustaining class ever that already has a pet. Just with a spirit ranger alone, you can mitigate aoe + give your allies buffs without even trying.

I’m not going to sit around and say that a gun is just as good as a sword in battle even though they are different. Why not give everyone something that has the potency of a gun? Or give a class better weapon skills to sustain while sacrificing valued utility slots. Spirit rangers are the bottom-dwellers of no skill.

Parisalchuk.9230:

OP != bug

In addition, as its been made abundantly clear in this subforum, kill specifically the sun spirit before engaging the ranger himself and you should be just fine. This is currently the only even near viable build for Ranger in high end play and they dont want to shift the meta until atleast after PAX.

Pointless dude. Because of the bug meaning the cd starts when they are summoned. This IS a bug seen as every other class doesnt have it this way. Guardian spirit weapons/minions/etc. Right now spirits have a 100% up time pretty much which is ridiculous.

They need to change this asap. It is gamebreaking

Atherakhia.4086:

Don’t most skills that have active effects with cooldowns have the timer start immediately?

Necro forms for example, don’t the timers start when you push the button and not when you leave the form? Same with dancing blade for thief. While they’re spinning, the cooldown is going down. Same with the guardian summon weapons. Same with ele weapons. Etc etc.

The only issue I’ve heard that could be legitimate is if the frost spirit buffs are honestly stacking because, once traited, the buff has a different name so the untraited spirit and the traited spirit each have an active buff on the target. I’ve never verified this is true, but it was brought up in the other thread.

Nay, most cds start after. Tried it on spirit weapons before I complained. Hammer spirit CD is kitten . I summoned it and waited for it to die—-cd is kitten . It should have been 25s if it were similar to spirits. Also Death Shroud cd starts after you leave. At most you can go back into DS after 7s which is the traited version.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Parisalchuk.9230:

Aza.2105:

Parisalchuk.9230:

Aza.2105:

meikodesign.6471:

Ok but let spirits attack then.
You can’t compare them with minions, spirit weapons or turrets. They’re not designed to do the same thing and they’ve got a very long 60s CD btw.

Shield of avenger and bow of truth have 60 secs cds and they don’t attack. Have lower hp and die if you use a skill (if not traited for it).

No, instead the bow shoots at allies healing them and the shield creates a Shield of Absorption during combat. Regardless, those are Spirit Weapons, minions are minions, turrets are turrets and spirits are spirits. They are all their own entities.

My point was to show that neither one of those spirit weapons attack and they have 60 sec cds. You can try to individualize them, but in the end they are all summons with different properties.

Lol, so you agree – they have different properties. In the case of minions and guard sprits they follow you. Rangers have to spec into that, otherwise they are like turrets. Difference between turrets and Ranger spirits, the turrets auto attack where I have to be active for my spirits to do anything.

They are all different things, and as you explicitly say, they have different properties. CD is one of them.

Spirits act as party-wide signets releasing a buff in an aoe-radius. It’s cd is low compared to spirit weapons because it begins when it’s summoned. You have a complete spirit weapon build when you go into 1 trait-line. For a guard, he’d have to go into 3 different traitlines to achieve a decent spirit weapon build. Even so, if the spirit weapons are killed, it’s over for the guard. They don’t have the sustain to live through things without utilities (No condi cleanse, no easy access to protection, no evade skills).

If we were to compare:
—————————————————
Spirits have a trait which make them more tanky. Spirit weapons do not.
Spirit weapons can attack yes, but they die so easily and their attacks are so subpar it’s not even worth it.
Spirits can trait to being useful when they die. Spirit weapons—when they die, it equates to FML.
Sure, you have to trait into spirits following you, but it’s not as stupid as the trait “When spirit weapons are commanded, they do not die” —- If we want spirit weapons to be viable we HAVE to take that trait, and that’s pretty stupid. We have a trait that also makes them last longer, but when they get focus-fired, it doesn’t even matter, the cd will always be 60 when they die.

Yes they are all different. But spirits have the better—if not overpowered, design. They are passive, but they also have active skills. They can’t attack, but they can almost act better as a shield (via bodyblocking) than the shield of the avenger. Plus, they are given to the most weapon-wise self sustaining class ever that already has a pet. Just with a spirit ranger alone, you can mitigate aoe + give your allies buffs without even trying.

I’m not going to sit around and say that a gun is just as good as a sword in battle even though they are different. Why not give everyone something that has the potency of a gun? Or give a class better weapon skills to sustain while sacrificing valued utility slots. Spirit rangers are the bottom-dwellers of no skill.

Excellent post. Could not have said it any better.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Atherakhia.4086:

Don’t most skills that have active effects with cooldowns have the timer start immediately?

Necro forms for example, don’t the timers start when you push the button and not when you leave the form? Same with dancing blade for thief. While they’re spinning, the cooldown is going down. Same with the guardian summon weapons. Same with ele weapons. Etc etc.

The only issue I’ve heard that could be legitimate is if the frost spirit buffs are honestly stacking because, once traited, the buff has a different name so the untraited spirit and the traited spirit each have an active buff on the target. I’ve never verified this is true, but it was brought up in the other thread.

Nay, most cds start after. Tried it on spirit weapons before I complained. Hammer spirit CD is kitten . I summoned it and waited for it to die—-cd is kitten . It should have been 25s if it were similar to spirits. Also Death Shroud cd starts after you leave. At most you can go back into DS after 7s which is the traited version.

I mean liche and plague form.

Summon bone fiend: 30cd
Summon blood fiend: 20cd
Summon bone minions: 20cd
Summon flesh golem: 60cd (Note: Elite skill with same cd as spirits)
Summon flesh worm: 40cd
Summon shadow fiend: 20cd
Trait to make these recharge 20% faster.

Now, spirit weapons have a cd of between 30 and 60, have a trait to recharge 20% faster and a trait to last 50% longer. Ranger spirits all have a 60 cd, with the elite having a huge 4 minute cd. There are no traits to make them recharge faster. Given the fact that spirits != spirit weapons != minions, have any of you ever taken a step back to think that maybe, just maybe it’s intentional? I’m going to assume not. Stop basing these “facts” on other professions AI skills, because again, spirits != spirit weapons != minions. They all work differently, as they should. Now of course I’m not saying it’s not a bug, it’s possible it is (which if it is ANet need to rework rangers because other than spirit rangers the class is quite subpar), but until it’s confirmed stop trying to say it’s a fact.

You mean the fact we can’t cast the spirit and then the active because the active goes on immediate cool down?

Oh I see. Just another L2P issue, I don’t think that bug will be fixed this patch.

It’s intended. You guys were the ones that cried and cried about how underpowered spirits were and how easy they die. You got what you asked for.

Seriously, rangers are either “HAHA GG RANGER SUCKS ROLL NECRO/WARRIOR” or “ZOMG RANGER OP NEEEEERF”

My profession can never, ever win with you people.

Until there is actual risk to running a ranger they will never have the respect of anyone who has played other classes.

jmatb.6307:

Until there is actual risk to running a ranger they will never have the respect of anyone who has played other classes.

But perma stealth thief and ground target mark fear necromancer get your respect, lol, ok.

I never thought in my gaming life that this day will come…People are considering Spirits OP……………..

Dardamaniac.1295:

I never thought in my gaming life that this day will come…People are considering Spirits OP……………..

I would say so. You can’t kill them because they will be summoned again. Not to mention it gives ranger almost perma protection. The ironic thing is, they nerfed guardian protection all around because it was deemed too strong, yet here is ranger running around with a extraordinary protection up time.

killsun spirit, kill elite (240 sec cooldown), bb ranger, L2P, any dps class can kill any spirit in 5 secs.

BTW, nerf phantasms.

yeah I have to say this is a l2p issue, spirits are no longer half as effective as they used to me because everyone knows what to do with them. Yes I still dominate some bad players, but anyone good will.

How about Wars or Guards that walk up to me and 1 shot all my spirirts at once. I’m really glad I can recast them slowly because why would I ever use spirits if they are killed pretty much instantly.

Why are you crying about something for guardians which might need help and asking for Ranger nerfs. Your not making any point.

urdriel.8496:

killsun spirit, kill elite (240 sec cooldown), bb ranger, L2P, any dps class can kill any spirit in 5 secs.

BTW, nerf phantasms.

This, seriously. You take out sun spirit and the condi damage is greatly reduced with no more burning. If you cant spike then take out the prot spirit. If the elite is up doing engage unless you can take it out.

People run into a spirit ranger with full spirits and try and DPS the Ranger himself and then qq when they lose.

Man you guys are seriously amusing. I definitely can tell whether I was being outplayed or if it’s their build doing the talking. Sure I can try to kill the sun spirit first or whatever the suggestions are, but it doesn’t stop a good ranger from either 1 bunkering super well or 2 supporting the rest of the kitten team by just running around with his other spirits. I’ve never seen class that actually has an AI that has to be taken care of immediately before anything else (their elite spirit). Also, spirits dying is sometimes a good thing because it procs their skill (not sure if the icd affects it procing though). I’m sorry that you guys feel attacked as a Ranger class, but I’m not trying to attack everything about it. I just loathe AIs and passive play. In fact, I’d love to see a Ranger class that didn’t have to rely on AIs to win.

urdriel.8496:

killsun spirit, kill elite (240 sec cooldown), bb ranger, L2P, any dps class can kill any spirit in 5 secs.

BTW, nerf phantasms.

Okay, use your burst to take down spirits. Then let the ranger go into super evade mode until he summons them again. They’ll last long enough for their allies to help or take you down. Don’t even bring up team fights. They create the biggest distractions unless their teammates are literally letting their spirit ranger do all the work. Pretty sure they are gonna focus on actual players, while you are busy catching spirits. But yeah, let’s make up these 1v1 scenarios where we have the perfect fight against them.

Parisalchuk.9230:

jmatb.6307:

Until there is actual risk to running a ranger they will never have the respect of anyone who has played other classes.

But perma stealth thief and ground target mark fear necromancer get your respect, lol, ok.

Evade thief, I have not played a lot of, but stealth thieves are not that hard to deal with and it actually takes skill to know when to gtfo. Necromancers were okay for me before their DS buff. It’s so hard to take their life force away with direct damage now.

Chopps.5047:

It’s intended. You guys were the ones that cried and cried about how underpowered spirits were and how easy they die. You got what you asked for.

Seriously, rangers are either “HAHA GG RANGER SUCKS ROLL NECRO/WARRIOR” or “ZOMG RANGER OP NEEEEERF”

My profession can never, ever win with you people.

I actually don’t complain normally. Spirit rangers are the only ones who’ve pushed my buttons this far.

Eurantien.4632:

You mean the fact we can’t cast the spirit and then the active because the active goes on immediate cool down?

Oh I see. Just another L2P issue, I don’t think that bug will be fixed this patch.

Eurantien, I’m surprised you can’t even objectively look at this. I know you are a great ranger, but you seriously can’t say that Spirit Ranger is balanced. The cost of using them is so freaking low. Almost anybody who’s competitive can pick one up and master it in one day.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

urdriel.8496:

killsun spirit, kill elite (240 sec cooldown), bb ranger, L2P, any dps class can kill any spirit in 5 secs.

BTW, nerf phantasms.

Okay, use your burst to take down spirits. Then let the ranger go into super evade mode until he summons them again. They’ll last long enough for their allies to help or take you down. Don’t even bring up team fights. They create the biggest distractions unless their teammates are literally letting their spirit ranger do all the work. Pretty sure they are gonna focus on actual players, while you are busy catching spirits. But yeah, let’s make up these 1v1 scenarios where we have the perfect fight against them.

This is exactly what happens. I’m not sure why players defend it, I personally do not identify with any class and if they need to be nerfed for the overall balance of the game then do it.

Coming from gw1, its just disturbing how stuff like this could exist in game and let alone people justify it.

PVStar.3658:

Summon bone fiend: 30cd
Summon blood fiend: 20cd
Summon bone minions: 20cd
Summon flesh golem: 60cd (Note: Elite skill with same cd as spirits)
Summon flesh worm: 40cd
Summon shadow fiend: 20cd
Trait to make these recharge 20% faster.

Now, spirit weapons have a cd of between 30 and 60, have a trait to recharge 20% faster and a trait to last 50% longer. Ranger spirits all have a 60 cd, with the elite having a huge 4 minute cd. There are no traits to make them recharge faster. Given the fact that spirits != spirit weapons != minions, have any of you ever taken a step back to think that maybe, just maybe it’s intentional? I’m going to assume not. Stop basing these “facts” on other professions AI skills, because again, spirits != spirit weapons != minions. They all work differently, as they should. Now of course I’m not saying it’s not a bug, it’s possible it is (which if it is ANet need to rework rangers because other than spirit rangers the class is quite subpar), but until it’s confirmed stop trying to say it’s a fact.

I never argued that the design wasn’t intentional, but compared to spirits, they are subpar. They need more buffs on the other AI builds or just remove AI builds period. What competitive game relies on AIs more than the actual player?

ArcTheFallen.7682:

PVStar.3658:

Summon bone fiend: 30cd
Summon blood fiend: 20cd
Summon bone minions: 20cd
Summon flesh golem: 60cd (Note: Elite skill with same cd as spirits)
Summon flesh worm: 40cd
Summon shadow fiend: 20cd
Trait to make these recharge 20% faster.

Now, spirit weapons have a cd of between 30 and 60, have a trait to recharge 20% faster and a trait to last 50% longer. Ranger spirits all have a 60 cd, with the elite having a huge 4 minute cd. There are no traits to make them recharge faster. Given the fact that spirits != spirit weapons != minions, have any of you ever taken a step back to think that maybe, just maybe it’s intentional? I’m going to assume not. Stop basing these “facts” on other professions AI skills, because again, spirits != spirit weapons != minions. They all work differently, as they should. Now of course I’m not saying it’s not a bug, it’s possible it is (which if it is ANet need to rework rangers because other than spirit rangers the class is quite subpar), but until it’s confirmed stop trying to say it’s a fact.

I never argued that the design wasn’t intentional, but compared to spirits, they are subpar. They need more buffs on the other AI builds or just remove AI builds period. What competitive game relies on AIs more than the actual player?

GW2…..

Its GW1 “made simple”.

One last thing to all of the ranger lovers crying L2P. Why keep on defending an unbalanced build? I want Rangers to have like millions of builds just not dependent on AIs and passive play. I want to say “Wow, that was really hard to land.” Or “Wow, that was a really good combo. GG” Not “Wow, he can just press buttons.” Rangers need more ‘timed’ mechanics, not uptime mechanics.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

…

I’m not going to sit around and say that a gun is just as good as a sword in battle even though they are different. Why not give everyone something that has the potency of a gun? Or give a class better weapon skills to sustain while sacrificing valued utility slots. Spirit rangers are the bottom-dwellers of no skill.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Man you guys are seriously amusing. I definitely can tell whether I was being outplayed or if it’s their build doing the talking. Sure I can try to kill the sun spirit first or whatever the suggestions are, but it doesn’t stop a good ranger from either 1 bunkering super well or 2 supporting the rest of the kitten team by just running around with his other spirits. I’ve never seen class that actually has an AI that has to be taken care of immediately before anything else (their elite spirit). Also, spirits dying is sometimes a good thing because it procs their skill (not sure if the icd affects it procing though). I’m sorry that you guys feel attacked as a Ranger class, but I’m not trying to attack everything about it. I just loathe AIs and passive play. In fact, I’d love to see a Ranger class that didn’t have to rely on AIs to win.

Right…

As to your comments about it not being worth it to attack spirits, Rangers going into “super evade mode”, ect… If it takes more than 3 seconds for you to burst a spirit down you have a problem. If you can’t CC a build with no actual stun breakers stability outside a single trait negating a lot of the evade power you have a problem. This build does not automatically make a terrible player good because they are playing it. Yes, its an easier class to play then others, but not much easier then jumping on a necromancer and throwing down ground targeted AOEs and saying GG.

This community really needs to make up its mind. Over in the “Mesmers are bad” thread people are saying that you shouldnt run Mes because other classes can out perform any role it could play. Then we come here and now we grief Rangers for playing the only build viable for them because its effective.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

One last thing to all of the ranger lovers crying L2P. Why keep on defending an unbalanced build? I want Rangers to have like millions of builds just not dependent on AIs and passive play. I want to say “Wow, that was really hard to land.” Or “Wow, that was a really good combo. GG” Not “Wow, he can just press buttons.” Rangers need more ‘timed’ mechanics, not uptime mechanics.

Wow, that HGH engi sure knew how to ground target that cap point. Wow, that necromancer sure new how to lay down marks on that cap point. Wow, that node fight engi sure knows how to run in a circle placing bombs. Wow, that thief sure knows how to use a skill to stack might to take out a target. Wow, that ele sure knows how to teleport to me and activate all his skills at once.

Lets not pretend this is the hardest game to play or land combos on…

Parisalchuk.9230:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

…

I’m not going to sit around and say that a gun is just as good as a sword in battle even though they are different. Why not give everyone something that has the potency of a gun? Or give a class better weapon skills to sustain while sacrificing valued utility slots. Spirit rangers are the bottom-dwellers of no skill.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Man you guys are seriously amusing. I definitely can tell whether I was being outplayed or if it’s their build doing the talking. Sure I can try to kill the sun spirit first or whatever the suggestions are, but it doesn’t stop a good ranger from either 1 bunkering super well or 2 supporting the rest of the kitten team by just running around with his other spirits. I’ve never seen class that actually has an AI that has to be taken care of immediately before anything else (their elite spirit). Also, spirits dying is sometimes a good thing because it procs their skill (not sure if the icd affects it procing though). I’m sorry that you guys feel attacked as a Ranger class, but I’m not trying to attack everything about it. I just loathe AIs and passive play. In fact, I’d love to see a Ranger class that didn’t have to rely on AIs to win.

Right…

As to your comments about it not being worth it to attack spirits, Rangers going into “super evade mode”, ect… If it takes more than 3 seconds for you to burst a spirit down you have a problem. If you can’t CC a build with no actual stun breakers stability outside a single trait negating a lot of the evade power you have a problem. This build does not automatically make a terrible player good because they are playing it. Yes, its an easier class to play then others, but not much easier then jumping on a necromancer and throwing down ground targeted AOEs and saying GG.

This community really needs to make up its mind. Over in the “Mesmers are bad” thread people are saying that you shouldnt run Mes because other classes can out perform any role it could play. Then we come here and now we grief Rangers for playing the only build viable for them because its effective.

Man, its not just rangers its too many things thats wrong with spvp. The only thing that will happen is once they fix the ranger bug, then another OP build will appear. It will be a endless cycle of nerf, buff, with the people who enjoy their class and trying to enjoy spvp dealing with the changes.

GW2 biggest problem is the foundation it lays on is pve, meaning that pvpers are subject to a pve game transformed into pvp. While spirits being AI controlled and having 100% uptime works in pve, it can’t work in pvp.

Actions need to be punished, punishment causes people to readjust their thinking and draw better conclusions on how to tackle a problem. But as long as there is one button spamming and AI controlled variables then this can not happen.

We are talking about a supposed DPS class whose only viable/op/imba/FOTM build is as SUPPORT because need a rework in each of their trait lines or weapons???

Delete ranger class pls.

Parisalchuk.9230:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

…

I’m not going to sit around and say that a gun is just as good as a sword in battle even though they are different. Why not give everyone something that has the potency of a gun? Or give a class better weapon skills to sustain while sacrificing valued utility slots. Spirit rangers are the bottom-dwellers of no skill.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Man you guys are seriously amusing. I definitely can tell whether I was being outplayed or if it’s their build doing the talking. Sure I can try to kill the sun spirit first or whatever the suggestions are, but it doesn’t stop a good ranger from either 1 bunkering super well or 2 supporting the rest of the kitten team by just running around with his other spirits. I’ve never seen class that actually has an AI that has to be taken care of immediately before anything else (their elite spirit). Also, spirits dying is sometimes a good thing because it procs their skill (not sure if the icd affects it procing though). I’m sorry that you guys feel attacked as a Ranger class, but I’m not trying to attack everything about it. I just loathe AIs and passive play. In fact, I’d love to see a Ranger class that didn’t have to rely on AIs to win.

Right…

As to your comments about it not being worth it to attack spirits, Rangers going into “super evade mode”, ect… If it takes more than 3 seconds for you to burst a spirit down you have a problem. If you can’t CC a build with no actual stun breakers stability outside a single trait negating a lot of the evade power you have a problem. This build does not automatically make a terrible player good because they are playing it. Yes, its an easier class to play then others, but not much easier then jumping on a necromancer and throwing down ground targeted AOEs and saying GG.

This community really needs to make up its mind. Over in the “Mesmers are bad” thread people are saying that you shouldnt run Mes because other classes can out perform any role it could play. Then we come here and now we grief Rangers for playing the only build viable for them because its effective.

I mean, Play2Win right? Of course any competitive person in their right mind is going to pick this build up and play with it.

First and foremost—I AM NOT THE COMMUNITY. I don’t care what anyone else has complained about. My focus is spirit rangers so don’t compare me to whoever has complained in the past. I understand that people will have to pick up whatever they need to—to win. But I can’t just sit around and twiddle my thumbs while Anet thinks this specific build for rangers is okay. It’s not. But in addition, I want rangers to have more viable competitive builds, not this joke of one.

Killing those spirits may be effective, but it’s wasting your time and your resources to dish out on another player. 1-on-1 maybe it’d be okay, but you’d still have to deal with evade + protection uptime + regen, condi cleanse. It’s pretty rough. I’m not saying it transforms a newb into a Jumper or whoever you think is a good player. I’m saying this build is a freebie to any competent player who wants an edge on their team. Low skill cap, High output mastery. Necro mancers are annoying with their long-range bursts, but they aren’t as tanky as Rangers and they can’t handle pressure. Rangers can. I’m not talking about Necros anyways nor have I really complained about them that much. Why keep on bringing irrelevant topics.

Aza.2105:

Parisalchuk.9230:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

…

I’m not going to sit around and say that a gun is just as good as a sword in battle even though they are different. Why not give everyone something that has the potency of a gun? Or give a class better weapon skills to sustain while sacrificing valued utility slots. Spirit rangers are the bottom-dwellers of no skill.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Man you guys are seriously amusing. I definitely can tell whether I was being outplayed or if it’s their build doing the talking. Sure I can try to kill the sun spirit first or whatever the suggestions are, but it doesn’t stop a good ranger from either 1 bunkering super well or 2 supporting the rest of the kitten team by just running around with his other spirits. I’ve never seen class that actually has an AI that has to be taken care of immediately before anything else (their elite spirit). Also, spirits dying is sometimes a good thing because it procs their skill (not sure if the icd affects it procing though). I’m sorry that you guys feel attacked as a Ranger class, but I’m not trying to attack everything about it. I just loathe AIs and passive play. In fact, I’d love to see a Ranger class that didn’t have to rely on AIs to win.

Right…

As to your comments about it not being worth it to attack spirits, Rangers going into “super evade mode”, ect… If it takes more than 3 seconds for you to burst a spirit down you have a problem. If you can’t CC a build with no actual stun breakers stability outside a single trait negating a lot of the evade power you have a problem. This build does not automatically make a terrible player good because they are playing it. Yes, its an easier class to play then others, but not much easier then jumping on a necromancer and throwing down ground targeted AOEs and saying GG.

This community really needs to make up its mind. Over in the “Mesmers are bad” thread people are saying that you shouldnt run Mes because other classes can out perform any role it could play. Then we come here and now we grief Rangers for playing the only build viable for them because its effective.

Man, its not just rangers its too many things thats wrong with spvp. The only thing that will happen is once they fix the ranger bug, then another OP build will appear. It will be a endless cycle of nerf, buff, with the people who enjoy their class and trying to enjoy spvp dealing with the changes.

GW2 biggest problem is the foundation it lays on is pve, meaning that pvpers are subject to a pve game transformed into pvp. While spirits being AI controlled and having 100% uptime works in pve, it can’t work in pvp.

Actions need to be punished, punishment causes people to readjust their thinking and draw better conclusions on how to tackle a problem. But as long as there is one button spamming and AI controlled variables then this can not happen.

Would adding downtime for the passive spirit abilities when their skills are activated help this issue? Bad rangers will either poorly time their activates and loss their bonuses or loss out completely on the activations in order to keep their passives up, while a good ranger can use the actives in a constructive way while still bringing down the power of the build slightly?

urdriel.8496:

We are talking about a supposed DPS class whose only viable/op/imba/FOTM build is as SUPPORT because need a rework in each of their trait lines or weapons???

Delete ranger class pls.

I’m talking about a class that needs more focus on the class not their AIs.

Parisalchuk.9230:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

One last thing to all of the ranger lovers crying L2P. Why keep on defending an unbalanced build? I want Rangers to have like millions of builds just not dependent on AIs and passive play. I want to say “Wow, that was really hard to land.” Or “Wow, that was a really good combo. GG” Not “Wow, he can just press buttons.” Rangers need more ‘timed’ mechanics, not uptime mechanics.

Wow, that HGH engi sure knew how to ground target that cap point. Wow, that necromancer sure new how to lay down marks on that cap point. Wow, that node fight engi sure knows how to run in a circle placing bombs. Wow, that thief sure knows how to use a skill to stack might to take out a target. Wow, that ele sure knows how to teleport to me and activate all his skills at once.

Lets not pretend this is the hardest game to play or land combos on…

Take a chill pill and then tell me which part of what you mentioned is controlled by an AI. Seriously we can play the blame game all day or just talk about spirit rangers and talk about how rangers can be redefined into something more praise-able.

Parisalchuk.9230:

Aza.2105:

Parisalchuk.9230:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

…

I’m not going to sit around and say that a gun is just as good as a sword in battle even though they are different. Why not give everyone something that has the potency of a gun? Or give a class better weapon skills to sustain while sacrificing valued utility slots. Spirit rangers are the bottom-dwellers of no skill.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Man you guys are seriously amusing. I definitely can tell whether I was being outplayed or if it’s their build doing the talking. Sure I can try to kill the sun spirit first or whatever the suggestions are, but it doesn’t stop a good ranger from either 1 bunkering super well or 2 supporting the rest of the kitten team by just running around with his other spirits. I’ve never seen class that actually has an AI that has to be taken care of immediately before anything else (their elite spirit). Also, spirits dying is sometimes a good thing because it procs their skill (not sure if the icd affects it procing though). I’m sorry that you guys feel attacked as a Ranger class, but I’m not trying to attack everything about it. I just loathe AIs and passive play. In fact, I’d love to see a Ranger class that didn’t have to rely on AIs to win.

Right…

As to your comments about it not being worth it to attack spirits, Rangers going into “super evade mode”, ect… If it takes more than 3 seconds for you to burst a spirit down you have a problem. If you can’t CC a build with no actual stun breakers stability outside a single trait negating a lot of the evade power you have a problem. This build does not automatically make a terrible player good because they are playing it. Yes, its an easier class to play then others, but not much easier then jumping on a necromancer and throwing down ground targeted AOEs and saying GG.

This community really needs to make up its mind. Over in the “Mesmers are bad” thread people are saying that you shouldnt run Mes because other classes can out perform any role it could play. Then we come here and now we grief Rangers for playing the only build viable for them because its effective.

Man, its not just rangers its too many things thats wrong with spvp. The only thing that will happen is once they fix the ranger bug, then another OP build will appear. It will be a endless cycle of nerf, buff, with the people who enjoy their class and trying to enjoy spvp dealing with the changes.

GW2 biggest problem is the foundation it lays on is pve, meaning that pvpers are subject to a pve game transformed into pvp. While spirits being AI controlled and having 100% uptime works in pve, it can’t work in pvp.

Actions need to be punished, punishment causes people to readjust their thinking and draw better conclusions on how to tackle a problem. But as long as there is one button spamming and AI controlled variables then this can not happen.

Would adding downtime for the passive spirit abilities when their skills are activated help this issue? Bad rangers will either poorly time their activates and loss their bonuses or loss out completely on the activations in order to keep their passives up, while a good ranger can use the actives in a constructive way while still bringing down the power of the build slightly?

Turning the passive to an active can be a good change and would make it more skillful to use. But I think taking out AIs in the game would be better period. Unless they give us micro options for AIs. Then if a ranger could control his pet/spirits and the only reason they are doing things is because of his micro, I’ll be stunned.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

urdriel.8496:

We are talking about a supposed DPS class whose only viable/op/imba/FOTM build is as SUPPORT because need a rework in each of their trait lines or weapons???

Delete ranger class pls.

I’m talking about a class that needs more focus on the class not their AIs.

I have a ranger and, yes, we need more focus on the CLASS, but you should talk with Anet, because when i choosed a ranger i thought it was a DPS class not a support one , people use Spirits build because each time Rangers have a nice build Anet nerf it, now rangers only have one VIABLE build in SPvP, blame Anet not rangers.

Parisalchuk.9230:

Aza.2105:

Parisalchuk.9230:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

…

I’m not going to sit around and say that a gun is just as good as a sword in battle even though they are different. Why not give everyone something that has the potency of a gun? Or give a class better weapon skills to sustain while sacrificing valued utility slots. Spirit rangers are the bottom-dwellers of no skill.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Man you guys are seriously amusing. I definitely can tell whether I was being outplayed or if it’s their build doing the talking. Sure I can try to kill the sun spirit first or whatever the suggestions are, but it doesn’t stop a good ranger from either 1 bunkering super well or 2 supporting the rest of the kitten team by just running around with his other spirits. I’ve never seen class that actually has an AI that has to be taken care of immediately before anything else (their elite spirit). Also, spirits dying is sometimes a good thing because it procs their skill (not sure if the icd affects it procing though). I’m sorry that you guys feel attacked as a Ranger class, but I’m not trying to attack everything about it. I just loathe AIs and passive play. In fact, I’d love to see a Ranger class that didn’t have to rely on AIs to win.

Right…

As to your comments about it not being worth it to attack spirits, Rangers going into “super evade mode”, ect… If it takes more than 3 seconds for you to burst a spirit down you have a problem. If you can’t CC a build with no actual stun breakers stability outside a single trait negating a lot of the evade power you have a problem. This build does not automatically make a terrible player good because they are playing it. Yes, its an easier class to play then others, but not much easier then jumping on a necromancer and throwing down ground targeted AOEs and saying GG.

This community really needs to make up its mind. Over in the “Mesmers are bad” thread people are saying that you shouldnt run Mes because other classes can out perform any role it could play. Then we come here and now we grief Rangers for playing the only build viable for them because its effective.

Man, its not just rangers its too many things thats wrong with spvp. The only thing that will happen is once they fix the ranger bug, then another OP build will appear. It will be a endless cycle of nerf, buff, with the people who enjoy their class and trying to enjoy spvp dealing with the changes.

GW2 biggest problem is the foundation it lays on is pve, meaning that pvpers are subject to a pve game transformed into pvp. While spirits being AI controlled and having 100% uptime works in pve, it can’t work in pvp.

Actions need to be punished, punishment causes people to readjust their thinking and draw better conclusions on how to tackle a problem. But as long as there is one button spamming and AI controlled variables then this can not happen.

Would adding downtime for the passive spirit abilities when their skills are activated help this issue? Bad rangers will either poorly time their activates and loss their bonuses or loss out completely on the activations in order to keep their passives up, while a good ranger can use the actives in a constructive way while still bringing down the power of the build slightly?

Thanks for responding constructively.

Yes something like this would work, since it actually promote thinking and analyzing how they can make the most of their build in a given situation. Like I noted in my above response, this is generally negated since when you have spamming and automated skills, it gives one the idea that they can get away with anything without being punished.

And its not just ranger, its many aspects in gw2 that carry this theme. One button spamming, endless escaping, extremely high dmg. They all have on thing in common, that compared to the reward, the punishment/risk is very little or nearly non existent.

If for example thieves backstab drained all of their initiative for missing, they would be more cautious to use it, right? But since there isn’t any punishment for miscalculation involved, the result is they just do it again and again until it works. When what should occur, they miss the backstab and consider readjusting their build, playstyle to ensure their chances of landing it is high.

And note that is only a example I’m trying to give, not what I’m personally advocating should happen.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

I mean, Play2Win right? Of course any competitive person in their right mind is going to pick this build up and play with it.

First and foremost—I AM NOT THE COMMUNITY. I don’t care what anyone else has complained about. My focus is spirit rangers so don’t compare me to whoever has complained in the past. I understand that people will have to pick up whatever they need to—to win. But I can’t just sit around and twiddle my thumbs while Anet thinks this specific build for rangers is okay. It’s not. But in addition, I want rangers to have more viable competitive builds, not this joke of one.

Killing those spirits may be effective, but it’s wasting your time and your resources to dish out on another player. 1-on-1 maybe it’d be okay, but you’d still have to deal with evade + protection uptime + regen, condi cleanse. It’s pretty rough. I’m not saying it transforms a newb into a Jumper or whoever you think is a good player. I’m saying this build is a freebie to any competent player who wants an edge on their team. Low skill cap, High output mastery. Necro mancers are annoying with their long-range bursts, but they aren’t as tanky as Rangers and they can’t handle pressure. Rangers can. I’m not talking about Necros anyways nor have I really complained about them that much. Why keep on bringing irrelevant topics.

First, we have no idea what Anet thinks about the spirit build, in fact they have indicated the exact opposite of what your put forth. They acknowledged they dont like AI dependent builds, however they also stated they would not change meta before PAX. We are currently in a wait state.

Next, killing spirits in a 1v1 or during team fight down time between targets is hardly a waste of your time or resources, especially because of the bonuses they add. In a high level team fight its not spike spike spike spike. You have cooldowns, there is free casting and waiting, thats when you eliminate spirits. Did the ranger come to the fight at the start, take them out before you fully engage.

Finally, and probably one of the most hypocritical things Ive seen on this forum in a while. If we are going to talk about how Spirit Ranger is a freebie to lower skilled players then how am I not allowed to bring up the next freebie to low skilled players – the necromancer in current meta. Please, how is discussing similarly “OP and easy to play” classes irrelevant? So yes, they are more susceptible to pressure, but they also get this lovely Plague Form skill to mitigate so much damage. In addition, because they are so long range with their marks they are often highly protected by their team. And lets not act like Spirit Ranger doesnt have its weaknesses; Ive already pointed them out. A single stunbreaker on long cooldown based on a trait. CC the kitten ranger.

urdriel.8496:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

urdriel.8496:

We are talking about a supposed DPS class whose only viable/op/imba/FOTM build is as SUPPORT because need a rework in each of their trait lines or weapons???

Delete ranger class pls.

I’m talking about a class that needs more focus on the class not their AIs.

I have a ranger and, yes, we need more focus on the CLASS, but you should talk with Anet, because when i choosed a ranger i thought it was a DPS class not a support one , people use Spirits build because each time Rangers have a nice build Anet nerf it, now rangers only have one VIABLE build in SPvP, blame Anet not rangers.

I didn’t mean to blame rangers. I just wanted to address the issue. I just can’t help it though when rangers think I want them to not exist. I just want them to be awesome, not OP.