Guild Wars 2

Shar.3402:

I love how people say “bunker ele is easier to play then backstab thief!”
Of course it’s easier to stay alive with a bunker than with a glass cannon, but have you ever tried playing with a zerker amulet full glass cannon elementalist? yeah, you live 3 seconds (mist form), and then YOU’RE DEAD. And you have no stealth or shortbow evade or distortion or blurred frenzy or a kittenING STUN BREAK ON YOUR WEAPONSET.
So, if you want to compare a glass cannon, do it with another glass cannon, instead of comparing apples to melons
thank you.

Thats true, see ‘semi bunker’ condition thieves, they barely die, a lot of mobility, stealth and evades, and also some good damage output to those classes that cant remove conditions like a mfker (eles or rangers), yet no one complains they are op.
Necros have a similar spec to the above, yet everyone is buthurt about eles going away with RTL im sure thats the main problem.

agree,
i also play a mesmer bunker-survival – shatter build with some damage output 0/20/20/0/30, with sword – torch – staff, and a lot of invisibility utility.

i have the potential to kill my opponent, (but slowly) and i have the great survavibility offer by soldier set, + a lot of invisibility..if i die, i probably does something wrong..

but i never see any post about “AHH MESMER BUNKER OP”

and you know why?

cause many mesmer don’t play bunker build, just like thieves don’t..

if the elementalist could have many other viable option you will see maybe 2/10 bunker , 8/10 offensive ele..

but until we have only ONE build, ONLY ONE (even dev say that, in sotg march) you rarely see any other elementalist setup..

if u see, they are just trying something different, then return to 0/10/0/30/30 cleric/soldier.

i personally love to use arcane-mage, but i recognize that sucks compared to 0/10/0/30/30 cantrip build…

imo we need something new

Lady Sara Goldheart.2764:

An elementalist using Berserker’s is not the problem but one like using Cleric’s.

yes, but wait and see how both will get nerfed, instead of just the bunker.

hharry.1967:

Shar.3402:

I love how people say “bunker ele is easier to play then backstab thief!”
Of course it’s easier to stay alive with a bunker than with a glass cannon, but have you ever tried playing with a zerker amulet full glass cannon elementalist? yeah, you live 3 seconds (mist form), and then YOU’RE DEAD. And you have no stealth or shortbow evade or distortion or blurred frenzy or a kittenING STUN BREAK ON YOUR WEAPONSET.
So, if you want to compare a glass cannon, do it with another glass cannon, instead of comparing apples to melons
thank you.

Thats true, see ‘semi bunker’ condition thieves, they barely die, a lot of mobility, stealth and evades, and also some good damage output to those classes that cant remove conditions like a mfker (eles or rangers), yet no one complains they are op.
Necros have a similar spec to the above, yet everyone is buthurt about eles going away with RTL im sure thats the main problem.

Someone mention condi thieves?
!http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltw9xfJCHs1qafrh6.gif!
I take a ranger running double Bears more serious.
A ranger running 2 pigs is more freighting. Dat dere knockdown.

Ele’s going away with the RTL ain’t really an issue to me, I just find it funny that an Ele hits RTL, and as the Mobility profession I have to pop 2-3 skills depending on build to catch him if he just pops RTL, let alone lightning flash. Was dropping this ele at Alter the other day before we changed to forest of garbage. Dude hits RTL, To gtfo. You know what kind of balls you need to have to try to outrun a thief? The arrogance on this kid. Had to pop inf strike, Shadowstep and then hit with Mug to drop him as he started his heal to the floor. Mind you I’d naturally assume it worse for the D/ builds when there’s plenty of reasons for Shadowshot not to of worked in that situation, in which case he’d of had to rely on SS + Mug which would’ve flopped since Mug steal would’ve failed on distance.

Too bad it wasn’t really arrogance since after I dropped him mist formed into the water hole. Lol wot? You know what happened to me one time I tried to warp by that hole? I got sent into the floor, before the game decided to make me fall through the floor and died nigh instantly as a result of fall damage. Ain’t that a kitten. Oh well at least Shadow return brought me right back to alter to cap (inb4nerf). Bunker build mind you.

No hate though it’s just straight out funny to pop 3 mobility skills in succession to catch a dude who was next to you a moment ago as a thief :p.

Issues just the water skills.

Oni.5429:

I think one of the most amusing things on these forums is watching these horrible hotjoiner eles trying to convince top players that they’re bad because said top players are calling eles overpowered.

The class is absolutely disgusting and does not require massive skill to be extremely powerful. All it needs is the right build.

You can be a r30 bunker ele with little to no real experience and still pose an absurd threat to the enemy team by just pushing their close.

‘’We instantly die to thieves’’

Yeah, that’s because you have the wrong build. Eles wont ‘’instantly die’‘, even when they’re up vs a thief, a mesmer and a warrior from stealth burst together with the correct build. They’ll be able to rtl+blink back to mid, reset their health and push close again whenever they feel like it.

Trash class that makes pvp a chore to play.

Cant kill a ele? You are using the wrong build!

I am an ele. I am r10 and I just join tourneys in a valk 0 20 0 30 20 specc for the laughter of seeing the “pros” playing like kittenheads

^he can kill ele..he kittening streams while killing premade heavy ele teams with pugs..:(
Thats why i dont get why he thinks ele bunker at far is problem.
I just think its just a passing trend.. and not best effective way to play the game.A good mobile team will stop the invader at far no matter what and an ele dpsing and aoe healing at team fights just seem better to me than sending him solo far over and over and over again..

I dont know why this thread is still going on with this weird debate about it. I answered the OP earlier. They’re nerfing ele’s. They have a build that allows them to do too much and an exploitable bug on an elite. Weaker areas may see buffs to compensate but thats where things are right now.

Watch the interview. We can talk about whether they will or not all day, or you can just watch where they SAY THEY WILL.

Yet even in the full cleric set up Ele’s have pretty good sustained and can whittle people away over time.

Tested it. Yeah you pretty much feel invincible. Sure your health is only 13k but if it never drops below 11k who the hell cares?

Archaon.6245:

Since you need pretty much none…just rotate attenuements while blowing the whole weapon skillbar before switching for the next and you’re done, dodge if needed….if kitten hits the fan just rtl away or mist form waiting for att/skills cd…

I’m not even sure if I should bother to reply, but I’ll give it a go:

How do you “blow up” Churning Earth? Bunker eles are frail when immobilized, and CE immobilizes them for 3 seconds. Even a random HB Warrior can kill a bunker ele that carelessly uses CE.

How do you “blow up” the defensive high-recharging, short duration skills? Those are the bread and butter of a bunker ele: any average player who blows them up will be left without options to survive a burst.

How do you “blow up” Drake’s Breath or Fire Grab? The former has a long animation time, which requires careful usage, and the later is conditional and requires proper positioning to not miss.

“Blowing up” strong CC skills like Earthquake or Updraft is also pretty bad, because of their high cooldowns. Earthquake alone has, what, 45s cooldown? I believe Updraft is around that too. Those skills are strong when used at the right moment, but kinda weak otherwise.

Fact is, anyone who plays an ele to “blow up” their skills won’t go far. Eles skills require proper timing and context to be used, and switching attunements locks you out of 3/4s of your skills. It requires a lot of practise to memorize all skills available to an ele, then to get an idea of the best attunements to switch to for each situation (or to improvize, when an iimportant attunement is locked by cooldown), then to make the most use of each single skill (and there are twice as them), then to make the whole piano-keyboard playstyle as smooth as possible (for an average player, it’s a bit intimidating and clunky).

Unlike a certain profession that can and should spam a certain skill (called Heartseeker) when a certain condition is met, the elementalist professions demands a lot from the player, the margin for error is very small, and your average player will make a lot of tiny mistakes that will add up and make them lose.

To master an elementalist is to master four weapon sets, and to master an elementalist is to master movement, evasion and positioning in this game. That because elementalists must deal with 20 weapon skills instead of the normal 10, and because elementalists are the squishiest class in this game, being the only one that has both the lowest natural HP and the lowest natural armor rating.

Again: I agree that bunker eles are a bit too strong once (close to) mastered, but it’s not every newb that takes it and gets results immediatly.

I play a D/D bunker ele and while I appreciate that it has a high skill floor and you have to master it to really wipe the floor with people (which most classes should require imo), it’s still definitely over the top. If played correctly and you know when to disengage/reengage, pretty much the only thing that can kill a d/d bunker is surprise burst or if you somehow get immobilized with no cond. removal cooldowns up (which is very rare).

As much as I love bouncing in and out of the battlefield Ride the Lightning probably needs somewhere around a 45 second cooldown in it’s current state. You should have to pick whether to use it as a gap closer or an escape tool, not just throw it out whenever you need to heal up or wait out cooldowns.

I’d say Ether Renewal is another big issue. Having a huge heal and a full condition wipe on an untraited (key issue here) 15 second cooldown is just silly, especially when you can just Ride the Lightning out, heal up unhindered, and then fly back in. Either halve it’s cond. removal, cut it’s heal by a third, or increase it’s cooldown to 25 seconds.

All of the CC skills are on a decently long cooldowns, but having 2 aoe CCs like that is kind of a bit much. Maybe make Earthquake single target, but either have a 1s longer stun or reduce the cast time on Churning Earth to make it a guaranteed hit after Earthquake without a stun break.

A cantrip ele’s team fight and support capabilities certainly aren’t the problem, it’s good and has certain team comps it shines in but its nothing absurd and really it’s balanced, in fact I think there is very few ele’s out there who have found a way to be particularly effective in a team fights.

The problem is, nothing in this game has the mobility, survivability, damage, and sustain to attack far point without almost no risk, except a cantrips ele. The class with the highest percentage of punishing a back point assaulting cantrips ele is thief, even then it’s not guaranteed. Every class after that has a horrible chance of killing the ele before he rtls away or uses his many other escape tools. (such as just walking away)

Attacking a back point on any other class/build is either useless (you don’t have enough damage to accomplish anything) or a big risk (you will die if someone comes back to kill you.)

There are times to assault back point on any class but cantrips ele doesn’t need to identify that, it just goes, summons its elite, and parties.

Defending our side point with mesmer, ele crossed…brought him to “almost down” 4 times….and every time he just mist form> rtl away, rufulled and started all over again…at the end i had to call our war to wait for that kittener outside henge and bring him finally down cause i couldn’t leave the point (With portal) to go help somewhere else, and i was “just a bit” kitten off since he kept coming back full life in seconds after running away like a dam rabbit to avoid being downed once and for all….mesmer’s mobility compared to ele’s…you know….

He was like r25 or something…he was plain crap since i could esily beat the kitten out of him while being almost full hp…but he managed to contest our point for minutes due to that stupid rtl allowing him to “Oh kitten button” run away and going back full, what I was supposed to do? Leaving a portal on point just to chase a stupid ele? Because you know, without portal if i leave the point he can easily go back to it to decap even before i can cover half the distance i made trying to get him to finish him off…having to call out backup just to get a kittening r20 ele able to do nothing but running away while dieing, heal up and come back just for gettin his kitten owned again and so on for like 4 minutes doesn’t sound legit to me…am i wrong?

Archaon.6245:

Defending our side point with mesmer, ele crossed…brought him to “almost down” 4 times….and every time he just mist form> rtl away, rufulled and started all over again…at the end i had to call our war to wait for that kittener outside henge and bring him finally down cause i couldn’t leave the point (With portal) to go help somewhere else, and i was “just a bit” kitten since he kept coming back full life in seconds after running away like a dam rabbit to avoid being downed once and for all….mesmer’s mobility compared to ele’s…you know….

Wait..he was just attacking far,getting beaten up from you and leaving the point?
Did he at least get the point neutral?..What a terrible ele that was :P
Seriously if he kept attacking far with you there without managing to beat you or having the point neutral for a considerable amount of time then you should be happy
with the advantage you had.. even without managing to leave home point your mesm should be gratefull!

Archaon.6245:

Defending our side point with mesmer, ele crossed…brought him to “almost down” 4 times….and every time he just mist form> rtl away, rufulled and started all over again…at the end i had to call our war to wait for that kittener outside henge and bring him finally down cause i couldn’t leave the point (With portal) to go help somewhere else, and i was “just a bit” kitten off since he kept coming back full life in seconds after running away like a dam rabbit to avoid being downed once and for all….mesmer’s mobility compared to ele’s…you know….

He was like r25 or something…he was plain crap since i could esily beat the kitten out of him while being almost full hp…but he managed to contest our point for minutes due to that stupid rtl allowing him to “Oh kitten button” run away and going back full, what I was supposed to do? Leaving a portal on point just to chase a stupid ele? Because you know, without portal if i leave the point he can easily go back to it to decap even before i can cover half the distance i made trying to get him to finish him off…having to call out backup just to get a kittening r20 ele able to do nothing but running away while dieing, heal up and come back just for gettin his kitten owned again doesn’t sound legit to me…am i wrong?

As long as you capped the node the ele is useless for the team, trying to get it.

Point is that while you couldnt leave the point that wasnt the case only for you but also for the ele who couldnt help his team cause he repeatedly attacked far..
Seriously theres only one way to stop an ele (and every class that does this) from back capping..Mobility+good 1vs1 abilities+enemy position awareness.Thief should be the perfect candidate for sticking with the ele to counter both his back capping\and reinforce the team fight if the ele stops attacking far like a drone..
Besides that mesmer with portal is already a must..having less far point assaulting options for the other team would make mesmer necessity even higher.
I still think if classes like thief get their options widen there should be no “ele” problem

kostbabis.8791:

Archaon.6245:

Defending our side point with mesmer, ele crossed…brought him to “almost down” 4 times….and every time he just mist form> rtl away, rufulled and started all over again…at the end i had to call our war to wait for that kittener outside henge and bring him finally down cause i couldn’t leave the point (With portal) to go help somewhere else, and i was “just a bit” kitten since he kept coming back full life in seconds after running away like a dam rabbit to avoid being downed once and for all….mesmer’s mobility compared to ele’s…you know….

Wait..he was just attacking far,getting beaten up from you and leaving the point?
Did he at least get the point neutral?..What a terrible ele that was :P
Seriously if he kept attacking far with you there without managing to beat you or having the point neutral for a considerable amount of time then you should be happy
with the advantage you had.. even without managing to leave home point your mesm should be gratefull!

Point was ours and no, he was not able to decap it…but having to beat him over and over again cause he can just escape and come back without being able to finish him off, believe me, it makes you freakin’ out….it wasn’t a point problem (They were already 3 capped, otherwise i wouldn’t have called for war backup just to get an idiot) it’s just a “Trollol you can’t stomp me because i can just run away if things get bad, then i can retry with full hp as many times as i want even if i’m an epic noob”

…dunno if you got my point, any other class played by such a nab would just get in, explode, stomp and bb, even a thief…you can catch a thief if you save some cd to avoid him running away (Because they haven’t an invuln+wtf rocket speed/range skill to escape…if he was fighting he maybe has enough init for just 1 sbow #5, after that he’s done) you can get an almost dead thief being so glassy just sending an iduelist to him without even moving from point or he’s just gonna die from conditions somewhere (And remember that he can’t just heal full up and come back in seconds like an ele)….but if you play a d/d ele you can be as bad as you want you can just escape everytime you are losing and in a point defending situation you can do nothing but waiting for him to come back full life…and so on…all over again..maybe with one mate making it a 2vs1 where it must have been a dead ele+1 vs 1

I’m ita so i probably messed up something in this wall of text…but i hope you guys can get my point somehow.. xD

Oni.5429:

I think one of the most amusing things on these forums is watching these horrible hotjoiner eles trying to convince top players that they’re bad because said top players are calling eles overpowered.

The class is absolutely disgusting and does not require massive skill to be extremely powerful. All it needs is the right build.

You can be a r30 bunker ele with little to no real experience and still pose an absurd threat to the enemy team by just pushing their close.

‘’We instantly die to thieves’’

Yeah, that’s because you have the wrong build. Eles wont ‘’instantly die’‘, even when they’re up vs a thief, a mesmer and a warrior from stealth burst together with the correct build. They’ll be able to rtl+blink back to mid, reset their health and push close again whenever they feel like it.

Trash class that makes pvp a chore to play.

+1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyNZKFHIGEk

Phantaram.1265:

The problem is, nothing in this game has the mobility, survivability, damage, and sustain to attack far point without almost no risk, except a cantrips ele. The class with the highest percentage of punishing a back point assaulting cantrips ele is thief, even then it’s not guaranteed. Every class after that has a horrible chance of killing the ele before he rtls away or uses his many other escape tools. (such as just walking away)

Attacking a back point on any other class/build is either useless (you don’t have enough damage to accomplish anything) or a big risk (you will die if someone comes back to kill you.)

I don’t agree with that phanta, the BM Rangers are kinda same hard like bunker ele builds now, and even got higher dps output.

Don’t forget, an full bunker ele who can STAY vs 2-3 ppl more than 30 Seconds on the point does you nearly zero damage! At any normal spect team you get 1 Glasscanon over all 3 ppl….

So it doesnt mather if your enemy will send an bunker ele,ranger or guard to your close point, you’ll still be not able to kill him with 1 maybe 2 player (if non dps specced chars), but thats a gerneral problem of ALL bunker builds, not just the elementalist.

And remember, you still need 1,5 GC speeced for enough presure to bring a bunker move away your close, but after all you just capped it, and if you compare bunker specs, a BM ranger does much more dmg like a full bunker ele…

So full bunker ele never will be able to get enough presure on you to leave the point…

In summary you got ad- and disadvantages on different class while using a kind of meta inspired this way of playing.

Guardian — knockback, even more easy for neutralazing the point, but crap movement
Ranger — hard to kill of felt like 100 dodges and condi removal + auto dmg from pet.
Ele -- many dodge and massiv heals, were the others have much more HP and defense. Lucky mobility and less dieing rate by getting interrupt by 2-3ppl.

The question is if a ranger can get to far before the defending player cap it. If there is another player, for example a necro, who slows you out then i doubt you will reach the point before capping. With the ele this problem doesn’t exist. (rtl, blink, stability, instant condi remove) Second things are invis-spikes as lot of thieves put a shadow refuge with another player to get you instantly from stealth. The ranger will have a hard time. The ele just put mist form and he’s fine. That’s why the ele is over the top. (pls no argues about bm-ranger and his dmg).
About guardian we don’t have to discuss I think. You have no mobility and 2 dps will get you sooner or later, without any chance of getting out. The knock-back is not really a guarantee though.

Elementalists were going to be nerfed, but they went into Mist Form and avoided the hammer.

elementalists are just gw2’s frost mages. they’ll never be nerfed.

To the OP.
Hope so, or maybe a buff to other classes. I think the second is more reliable to happen