Guild Wars 2

it has two stats worth of extra points compared to every other amulet. 834 more points or so. in a gamemode that has been strictly standardized in every way possible, an amulet that straight up has 834 more points shouldn’t exist.

celestial is currently the cause of the most imbalanced builds in the meta, d/d ele and rifle engie.

nobody aside from people actively exploiting the amulet wants to see this thing in play. not in it’s current state, at least.

soloq has effectively turned into “whoever has the most people using celestial amulet wins”, almost without fail.

all this and yet discussion about this amulet has remained almost entirely onesided, without a single response from any devs or staff members. quite frankly i wouldnt be surprised if it remains this way until september 2015.

It was.

In the past it was very weak and no-one used it.

They tweaked it.

Now it is viable and some people use it.

Definitely not everyone, because it doesn’t work with a lot of builds.

Try running it and see if it makes you as OP as you imagine.

Pro-tip: It won’t.

Good luck out there.

Sinject, the fact that cele amulet has more points in total is working as intended. It’s an all rounder amulet, and not every class uses all stats equally effective. Only engi/ele and to lesser extent guardian who could be called utilizing the whole collection.

Therefore other classes generally use other amulets where they can get a bigger punch on what they use more than celestial. Does this make the other amulets worse than cele? No, because they succeed much better on what they’re supposed to do.

Nerfing cele would just force the current cele classes to either go extremely bunkery or more glassy. Not sure it’d be better for the meta if you get engis going back to rabid considering the might spam meta

Answer to your question is No it’s not PvE so it doesn’t matter.

Just look at current ESL in NA mix of what few teams, its a joke try year ago and they have a full que or teams trying out but currently every single apart from the die hard have left and the reason still stays the same it takes a player less then week to workout how OP something is and takes Dev’s around 6 months if not more to work out…

If celestial was really OP, you could equip it to any profession and beat that same profession using any other amulet/build just because the stats carry you. The only professions that can do really well with celestial are elementalists and engineers.

Try using celestial on a mesmer, necromancer, or thief in PVP then see if you still think it’s completely OP. xD

The problem isn’t the amulet itself, it’s the runes and sigils that are giving professions the ability to apply conditions they shouldn’t be able to apply (like sigil of doom) or stack a ton of might on themselves (with rune of hoelbrak/strength). That’s why it makes elementalists and engineers seem completely OP compared to other professions that can’t make use of all of the stats and blast their own fire fields endlessly.

Without those might stacks and the ability to cripple other bunkers via applying poison so easily, celestial hits like a wet noodle. I was using celestial both before and after the patch when they implemented the rune changes, and the stat change alone didn’t change much, but once I figured out that my elementalist had the ability to stack might to boost her DPS on top of poisoning other bunkers just from swapping attunements, she went from being a full-out bunker to being some sort of a crazy juggernaut able to tank like a boss while bursting other people down lol.

I don’t care what they nerf and how they nerf it as long as they put an end to the current imbalance of cele based engi and d/d ele.

Doesnt matter tho, either they nerf cele or nerf engi and ele.

your choice.

There again, it’s not elementalists/engineers or the celestial stats that are overpowered. Pre-patch celestial was regarded as a trash amulet, and boosting the stats by 6% isn’t enough to suddenly make it god-mode.

Nothing significant changed with either elementalists or engineers either, so you can’t really say that they’re OP because they weren’t OP before the runes and sigils change and nothing really changed about their skills to suddenly make them OP.

It’s the might duration runes and sigil of doom/battle that need to be fixed, because only elementalists and engineers are able to abuse them to the extent where it becomes a problem.

They could nerf engineers and elementalists, but it might only cause more problems with balance and functionality versus just tweaking the rune and sigil stats.

Either way, I don’t really see a way to adjust elementalists and elementalists to cancel out the rune/sigil changes that wouldn’t also nerf all non-overpowered builds that don’t use them.

Nerfing celestial stats back to the way they used to be wouldn’t affect much either, imo. It feels like a broken record to keep saying this, but elementalists and engineers haven’t changed much in the past year, so how could something that was virtually garbage last year become op godmode without any huge changes to the classes themselves this year?

Also, if these OP elementalists and engineers didn’t have sigil of battle/sigil of doom/rune of strength/rune of hoelbrak, would they still be OP? The answer is no, because they wouldn’t have the massive damage to support their tankiness that they do now.

Kako.1930:

There again, it’s not elementalists/engineers or the celestial stats that are overpowered. Pre-patch celestial was regarded as a trash amulet, and boosting the stats by 6% isn’t enough to suddenly make it god-mode.

Nothing significant changed with either elementalists or engineers either, so you can’t really say that they’re OP because they weren’t OP before the runes and sigils change and nothing really changed about their skills to suddenly make them OP.

It’s the might duration runes and sigil of doom/battle that need to be fixed, because only elementalists and engineers are able to abuse them to the extent where it becomes a problem.

They could nerf engineers and elementalists, but it might only cause more problems with balance and functionality versus just tweaking the rune and sigil stats.

Either way, I don’t really see a way to adjust elementalists and elementalists to cancel out the rune/sigil changes that wouldn’t also nerf all non-overpowered builds that don’t use them.

Nerfing celestial stats back to the way they used to be wouldn’t affect much either, imo. It feels like a broken record to keep saying this, but elementalists and engineers haven’t changed much in the past year, so how could something that was virtually garbage last year become op godmode without any huge changes to the classes themselves this year?

Also, if these OP elementalists and engineers didn’t have sigil of battle/sigil of doom/rune of strength/rune of hoelbrak, would they still be OP? The answer is no, because they wouldn’t have the massive damage to support their tankiness that they do now.

Doesn’t matter tho, hambow and warrior is nerfed around them, so ele and engi should be nerfed as well.

cele or the class, your choice.

Simon.3794:

Kako.1930:

There again, it’s not elementalists/engineers or the celestial stats that are overpowered. Pre-patch celestial was regarded as a trash amulet, and boosting the stats by 6% isn’t enough to suddenly make it god-mode.

Nothing significant changed with either elementalists or engineers either, so you can’t really say that they’re OP because they weren’t OP before the runes and sigils change and nothing really changed about their skills to suddenly make them OP.

It’s the might duration runes and sigil of doom/battle that need to be fixed, because only elementalists and engineers are able to abuse them to the extent where it becomes a problem.

They could nerf engineers and elementalists, but it might only cause more problems with balance and functionality versus just tweaking the rune and sigil stats.

Either way, I don’t really see a way to adjust elementalists and elementalists to cancel out the rune/sigil changes that wouldn’t also nerf all non-overpowered builds that don’t use them.

Nerfing celestial stats back to the way they used to be wouldn’t affect much either, imo. It feels like a broken record to keep saying this, but elementalists and engineers haven’t changed much in the past year, so how could something that was virtually garbage last year become op godmode without any huge changes to the classes themselves this year?

Also, if these OP elementalists and engineers didn’t have sigil of battle/sigil of doom/rune of strength/rune of hoelbrak, would they still be OP? The answer is no, because they wouldn’t have the massive damage to support their tankiness that they do now.

Doesn’t matter tho, hambow and warrior is nerfed around them, so ele and engi should be nerfed as well.

cele or the class, your choice.

Correction: Hambow was nerfed because the hammer could output berserker damage with a soldier’s amulet. If there was a problem with a specific skill or weapon at the elementalist’s/engineer’s disposal, then that would call for a nerf, but it wasn’t a rune or sigil that made warriors strong, it was their weapons and traits.

Also, warriors were OVER nerfed, which is another reason I think a rune/sigil change would be better than a profession overhaul. It’s a case of “if it’s not broken, don’t fix it.” There’s nothing wrong with elementalists and engineers, it’s the runes and sigils that are messed up. :P

There is no problem with celestial stats. Maybe you should become a better player if celestial is the problem for you.

I’m pretty sure cele/might stacking will get nerfed in a month or 2. But remember, there is a major tournament coming, and making changes regarding cele would affect every single team, often multiple members, which is unfair.

Kako.1930:

Simon.3794:

Kako.1930:

There again, it’s not elementalists/engineers or the celestial stats that are overpowered. Pre-patch celestial was regarded as a trash amulet, and boosting the stats by 6% isn’t enough to suddenly make it god-mode.

Nothing significant changed with either elementalists or engineers either, so you can’t really say that they’re OP because they weren’t OP before the runes and sigils change and nothing really changed about their skills to suddenly make them OP.

It’s the might duration runes and sigil of doom/battle that need to be fixed, because only elementalists and engineers are able to abuse them to the extent where it becomes a problem.

They could nerf engineers and elementalists, but it might only cause more problems with balance and functionality versus just tweaking the rune and sigil stats.

Either way, I don’t really see a way to adjust elementalists and elementalists to cancel out the rune/sigil changes that wouldn’t also nerf all non-overpowered builds that don’t use them.

Nerfing celestial stats back to the way they used to be wouldn’t affect much either, imo. It feels like a broken record to keep saying this, but elementalists and engineers haven’t changed much in the past year, so how could something that was virtually garbage last year become op godmode without any huge changes to the classes themselves this year?

Also, if these OP elementalists and engineers didn’t have sigil of battle/sigil of doom/rune of strength/rune of hoelbrak, would they still be OP? The answer is no, because they wouldn’t have the massive damage to support their tankiness that they do now.

Doesn’t matter tho, hambow and warrior is nerfed around them, so ele and engi should be nerfed as well.

cele or the class, your choice.

Correction: Hambow was nerfed because the hammer could output berserker damage with a soldier’s amulet. If there was a problem with a specific skill or weapon at the elementalist’s/engineer’s disposal, then that would call for a nerf, but it wasn’t a rune or sigil that made warriors strong, it was their weapons and traits.

Also, warriors were OVER nerfed, which is another reason I think a rune/sigil change would be better than a profession overhaul. It’s a case of “if it’s not broken, don’t fix it.” There’s nothing wrong with elementalists and engineers, it’s the runes and sigils that are messed up. :P

It can still out put berserker damage because sigil of intelligence.
so you either nerf cele or nerf engi ele.

This got old. If you are still struggling rethink your way of fighting or just ask for advice on how to fight them. If the brand new condition shatter can own them what is your spec? Taking a guess it’s zerker.

Speaking of balance please remove the vitality from zerk and rampager amulets. People are wondering why soldier hambow can do more damage than zerk one….I guess the community forgot a part of their damage is replaced with some HP.

Nerf the duratom of the might you get from blasting fire fields, leave the amulet and the classes and sigils alone, unless of course you all want to play bunker wars 2

I think it’s the professions themselves, not the runes/sigils that’s being claimed. You nerf those items you unnecessarily nerf those who don’t abuse it as much.

Sagat.3285:

This got old. If you are still struggling rethink your way of fighting or just ask for advice on how to fight them. If the brand new condition shatter can own them what is your spec? Taking a guess it’s zerker.

Speaking of balance please remove the vitality from zerk and rampager amulets. People are wondering why soldier hambow can do more damage than zerk one….I guess the community forgot a part of their damage is replaced with some HP.

Condis on shatter is quite strong and their def is potential of it becoming meta.

Celestial is fine, it SHOULD have more total stats because the stats aren’t specialized in any way. Its the whole “jack of all trades, master of none.” By being an “all-arounder” you are above average at everything, but not great at anything. It makes sense there is a price to specializing in specific direction.

Just try to play cele engie/ele without battle sigils and see how much weaker they are. Yes, you can purposely use your skill to might-stack, but that decreases your efficiency a bunch and you can’t get as high.

Now try playing any other build with an alternative sigil and see it doesn’t change your effectiveness that much.

Methinks the problem is battle sigil…

Note: This assumes you also don’t lightning-whip stow, which is a pretty stupid mechanic.

My opinion is that celestial is what is too strong and to a lesser extent the sigils. Right now everyone agrees that cele engi and dd ele are a bit too strong in pvp. Now are those builds too strong in any other game mode or with any other amulet? For engi rabid is certainly a competitive choice so I am honestly unsure about what to do in that regard. However with any other amulet, dd ele is MUCH weaker to the point where it would probably almost never be played in high level tournaments.

Now if we look at pve both d/x ele and engi are fairly balanced and not even close to top of the food chain in any regard. Ele has the highest dps builds available, but these are with staff or scepter with lightning hammer builds. Dagger/X builds are only really used when a more defensive set up is required such as upper level fractals or soloing, and even then it is almost always d/f instead of d/d. Engi is a solid swiss army knife for the group that does everything you could possibly want from stacking might and vuln, to stealth, but doesn’t excel at anything in particular, leaving them in the middle of the pack.

In wvw neither build is really overpowered. For zerging d/x ele is generally considered out classed by staff while engineers have a very tough time in zergs due to retaliation on grenades, and lack of stability. For roaming both engi and d/d ele are solid 1v1 builds, however there are plenty of other super strong 1v1 builds not relevant in pvp but can shine in an open field fight. Things like pu mesmers, shadow arts thieves, perplexity necros, and full regen bunker rangers can already easily hold their own against ele’s and engis they just don’t work as well in the conquest game mode of spvp.

While nerfing celestial will affect the celestial builds of other classes, these generally all have other amulet options which can respectably compete with cele (E.g. soldier hambow/axebow). If celestial were nerfed heavily, each of these builds could change to another amulet and only be mildly less effective, the elementalist on the other hand, would be much weaker.

So the ultimate question is, why break whole builds in all game modes when they are only too strong with a specific gear choice exclusive to one game mode? It just doesn’t make sense in my eyes.

“Will we ever see celestial balanced”

Nope

In the case of the dd cele ele fixing stow weapon is the first step. That will drop a decent amount of dps not intended for that amulet/rune/sigils build.

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, retired #1 engi name and world first rank 80!

Get good sons! Worse than average players don’t get to dictate balance!

Wahoo! Bye France!

Amstel Steel.2058:

In the case of the dd cele ele fixing stow weapon is the first step. That will drop a decent amount of dps not intended for that amulet/rune/sigils build.

No it won’t lol.

It’s a little healing boost but it’s not one of the major problems. It’s quite hard to do in the middle of large team fights phanta himself has said he doesnt use it most of the time as it can be too risky if you mess up.

ellesee.8297:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, retired #1 engi name and world first rank 80!

Get good sons! Worse than average players don’t get to dictate balance!

Wahoo! Bye France!

players that have become well known only by publicly exhibiting themselves as a shallow gimmick of a persona and forcing themselves on the community as a meme don’t get to dictate the validity of other’s opinions and thoughts.

sorry.

Sagat.3285:

This got old. If you are still struggling rethink your way of fighting or just ask for advice on how to fight them. If the brand new condition shatter can own them what is your spec? Taking a guess it’s zerker.

Speaking of balance please remove the vitality from zerk and rampager amulets. People are wondering why soldier hambow can do more damage than zerk one….I guess the community forgot a part of their damage is replaced with some HP.

Its understandable that people with little to no blocks, blinds, or even conditions cleanses have issues going against hambow warriors. But their rotation are indeed predictable and I’ve seen many different classes one-up hambow warriors..even tho the class itself is very resilient against most builds just like d/d cele ele’s.

Back to topic, I don’t think any builds with cele are OP. We would notice that immediately. The cele builds are, now, just very resilient against many classes but very beatable as well.

NeXeD.3042:

Amstel Steel.2058:

In the case of the dd cele ele fixing stow weapon is the first step. That will drop a decent amount of dps not intended for that amulet/rune/sigils build.

No it won’t lol.

It’s a little healing boost but it’s not one of the major problems. It’s quite hard to do in the middle of large team fights phanta himself has said he doesnt use it most of the time as it can be too risky if you mess up.

Stow weapon is an outlier mechanic that increases both the dps and hps of lightning whip when signet of restoration is used. When incorporated into practice the ele is able to increase their overall dps decently as it provides that extra burst of both damage and healing before moving into the next string of attacks and heals.

I never said it was a major problem I said it was the first step. Furthermore the build is already balanced due to the complexity of conquest.

I am pretty sure lightning whip stow only increased hp/s from sor, not dps though I could certainly be wrong, can anyone else confirm either way? Regardless, the mechanic certainly seems very much like an exploit which should be fixed.

Celestial isn’t that good, it only really works with ele and engi, and kind of for warrior.

I say just remove the thing. If you nerf it, it just goes back to being useless, and it’s already subpar on most classes. However, if you nerf ele and engi, that doesn’t really help either. That just makes balance even worse.

Harbinger.8637:

Celestial isn’t that good, it only really works with ele and engi, and kind of for warrior.

I say just remove the thing. If you nerf it, it just goes back to being useless, and it’s already subpar on most classes. However, if you nerf ele and engi, that doesn’t really help either. That just makes balance even worse.

You see removing the amulet as any different than nerfing it so it never gets used?

If the amulet never gets used either way, whether it’s an option or not, how does that affect balance? Lmao. I feel like you’re taking crazy pills!

Celest itself is fine. Celest in combination with might stacking stuffs is a bit too strong on a couple of classes. It’s not as bad as most make it out to be though.

Chaith.8256:

Harbinger.8637:

Celestial isn’t that good, it only really works with ele and engi, and kind of for warrior.

I say just remove the thing. If you nerf it, it just goes back to being useless, and it’s already subpar on most classes. However, if you nerf ele and engi, that doesn’t really help either. That just makes balance even worse.

You see removing the amulet as any different than nerfing it so it never gets used?

If the amulet never gets used either way, whether it’s an option or not, how does that affect balance? Lmao. I feel like you’re taking crazy pills!

I guess I could have articulated that better! Cele is already terrible for a majority of the classes, so nerfing it would pretty much make useless, and if nobody is going to use it then why have it? On the flip side you could nerf ele and engi, however this effects builds that don’t use cele, and would causes even worse balance.

Ever since the revamped cele was introduced all it has done is cause problems. So if they want to nerf it and nobody then uses it, that’s fine too. I just don’t see the point of having something that nobody will use, so might as well remove it.

Brew Pinch.5731:

It was.

In the past it was very weak and no-one used it.

They tweaked it.

Now it is viable and some people use it.

Definitely not everyone, because it doesn’t work with a lot of builds.

Try running it and see if it makes you as OP as you imagine.

Pro-tip: It won’t.

Good luck out there.

Better tip: It depends on the class. It helps make the 3 most broken specs in the game more OP. D/D cele ele, nade cele engi, and turret engi all get great used out of it.

style.6173:

(Cele) turret engis all get great used out of it.

No, turret Engi’s power is totally arbitrary. It can’t do hybrid damage that scales with celestial stats.. any damage that Turret Engi does, that can scale, he does purely from rifle power damage. Soldiers is far better.

Chaith.8256:

Harbinger.8637:

Celestial isn’t that good, it only really works with ele and engi, and kind of for warrior.

I say just remove the thing. If you nerf it, it just goes back to being useless, and it’s already subpar on most classes. However, if you nerf ele and engi, that doesn’t really help either. That just makes balance even worse.

You see removing the amulet as any different than nerfing it so it never gets used?

If the amulet never gets used either way, whether it’s an option or not, how does that affect balance? Lmao. I feel like you’re taking crazy pills!

the problem obviously isnt celestial alone, but a combination of celestial, might stacking (battle runes/fire field + blast finishers/hoelbrak and strength), and profession mechanics.

i previously brought up how might stacking specifically is a profession issue as the three professions (engie, ele, warrior) with viable celestial builds have a majorly disproportionate amount of fire fields + blast finishers and are professions that are able to take advantage of on-swap runes like no other professions thanks to their rewarding of constant swapping.

there are also more profession specific issues like engie’s Incendiary Powder trait that need to be redone as well.

given that you main one of the very builds being discussed here, i think you should try to help us understand your entire view on what is balanced and what isn’t (if anything) when it comes to celestial engie.

sinject.4607:

given that you main one of the very builds being discussed here, i think you should try to help us understand your entire view on what is balanced and what isn’t (if anything) when it comes to celestial engie.

Well something I end up doing a lot is explaining that the fire field might stacking has nothing to do with reported Cele Engineer builds being really overpowered.

Right there is one big thing wrong with what you said.. saying that Celestial Engineers have a disproportionate amount of viable fire fields and blast finishers on which to call from.

In my opinion, strongest Cele Engineer builds have abysmal blasts & fire fields. Like, no fire fields, and one blast.

And to be honest, choosing might stacking runes when the only conceivable might source is from one sigil, that’s a combo that is not inherently overpowered.

Slap a Celestial Amulet, Battle Sigil, and Hoelbrak runes on anything, and it can stack 9 stacks of might permanently, when swapping on cooldown. All 8 professions have access to this same method, but why is this strategy varying from trash to sub-par on 6/8 professions?

The answer is simply that the combined Engineer’s pool of attacks themselves are super efficient when simultaneously scaling from both Power, Precision, Condition Damage, and Ferocity.

This super high scaling efficiency means that from the stats given from that setup, it deals comparable overall damage to if an Engineer went all in to condition damage alone, or all in to power damage alone.

Comparable damage. Less damage, of course than the Berserker and Rabid counterparts, but comparable damage while having an amulet that grants a moderate defensive boost as well.

Simply put, since Engineers have to choose between additional might stacks to synergize with the rune set, (IE, Flamethrower or Bomb Kit) and the super important Tool Kit, Celestial builds and Rabid builds remain pretty balanced with each other. Because they are so close, I consider Celestial stats to be well balanced. Within 5-10% effectiveness away from rabid options, depending on the scenario. This is mostly because Incendiary Powder and Balthazar runes are strong, and have huge efficiency when the Engineer goes all-in into conditions. People forget about this when they complain about Cele engies.

D/D Ele builds on the other hand have celestial stats jammed down their throats. Cele stats are lightyears ahead of other build types in efficiency. RIP any other playstyles other than Cele D/D, competitively.

I’m no expert on D/D Eles, but I feel that for other stat types to ever come close to being balanced with how efficient Celestial is, there has to be a shift away from the Arcana and Water trait lines, and a shift towards viable setups that rely more on power attacks than hybrid/condition. There has to be an efficient setup for Valk/Knight/Soldiers bruiser Eles.

Simon.3794:

Doesnt matter tho, either they nerf cele or nerf engi and ele.

your choice.

I don’t care which they nerf, I am just sick of these 2 classes dominating.

Chaith.8256:

I’m no expert on D/D Eles, but I feel that for other stat types to ever come close to being balanced with how efficient Celestial is, there has to be a shift away from the Arcana and Water trait lines, and a shift towards viable setups that rely more on power attacks than hybrid/condition. There has to be an efficient setup for Valk/Knight/Soldiers bruiser Eles.

You could make Valkyrie about as good as celestial (more offensive though) by replacing the ferocity with precision. Phantaram actually suggested this a long time ago, and it makes SO MUCH SENSE. As it is, unless you go deep into the precision line, valks has mostly wasted stats going into ferocity (you rely on fury uptime to get basically any crit chance).

As far as getting eles away from water/arcana, I think the #1 thing that needs to change is making elemental attunement less “necessary,” and to give the air/fire line better traits at the lower levels. Specifically, air 1 (adept minor), fire 1 (adept minor), fire 3 (master minor), and all fire adept major traits are pretty bad.

Relentliss.2170:

I don’t care which they nerf, I am just sick of these 2 classes dominating.

Just play a necro then and enjoy favorable matches with both!!!

This has been discussed so many times.
Start with nerfing Rune Of Strength and Hoelbrak, since those runes are used by literally anyone anyway.
The might-duration is simply too much when you add the 30% from traits. The duration is base 20s from Sigil Of Battle and Fire Field Blasts, which is already long enough. Reduce some of the might stacking, and maybe shave some of the condition damage received from every might-stack.
If this does not work, well, then give the amulet a hit.

Chaith.8256:

Simply put, since Engineers have to choose between additional might stacks to synergize with the rune set, (IE, Flamethrower or Bomb Kit) and the super important Tool Kit, Celestial builds and Rabid builds remain pretty balanced with each other. Because they are so close, I consider Celestial stats to be well balanced. Within 5-10% effectiveness away from rabid options, depending on the scenario. This is mostly because Incendiary Powder and Balthazar runes are strong, and have huge efficiency when the Engineer goes all-in into conditions. People forget about this when they complain about Cele engies.

the overall issue is that celestial engie and ele are too survivable for the amount of damage they can output. one thing or the other has to go.

honestly removing a defensive stat and an offensive stat would pretty much solve this issue as far as i can see. it would bring the amulet objectively into the standards followed by all other amulets while forcing builds to invest more into traitlines that give them either more strength or survivability; especially d/d ele which invests entirely in survival/utility traitlines.

Amstel Steel.2058:

NeXeD.3042:

Amstel Steel.2058:

In the case of the dd cele ele fixing stow weapon is the first step. That will drop a decent amount of dps not intended for that amulet/rune/sigils build.

No it won’t lol.

It’s a little healing boost but it’s not one of the major problems. It’s quite hard to do in the middle of large team fights phanta himself has said he doesnt use it most of the time as it can be too risky if you mess up.

Stow weapon is an outlier mechanic that increases both the dps and hps of lightning whip when signet of restoration is used. When incorporated into practice the ele is able to increase their overall dps decently as it provides that extra burst of both damage and healing before moving into the next string of attacks and heals.

I never said it was a major problem I said it was the first step. Furthermore the build is already balanced due to the complexity of conquest.

At what point did I ask for an explanation of what lightning whip stow weapon is? The dps boost if any which is debatable is so small, it’s the healing you do it for but again your not going to camp air to do it so your probably only getting an extra 300 hp every now and then.

If its not a problem for you then why mention it in a post that is about the celestial amulet…. has nothing to do with the use of stow weapon which I would argue is not a problem on ele, if you’re able to work lightning whip stow into your rotation well then you deserve that extra 300hp. It is a dps boost for mesmer gs1 but since this is a topic about celestial amulet it’s irrelephant.

In regards to what Chaith said, I don’t really think elementalists would be completely unviable without celestial stats. I can’t really speak for engineers too much because my engineer isn’t my main and I haven’t actually played on him (except for berserker builds) in a while, but elementalists could actually still get away with using either the rabid, carrion, settler, cleric, berserker, or even soldier’s amulet in tpvp. I don’t think anyone would even consider replacing their guardian with an elementalist in this case (in competitive play), but they’re not complete garbage either.

Unfortunately, I think there would still be a problem with might stacking when combined with the tanky amulets, though. I also think that nerfing one viable amulet into the ground or removing it would just make everyone split up into the other remaining viable builds, and you would just see a lot more elementalists running with Diva’s condition signet build with Stone Heart or berserker S/F or staff bomber builds lol.

I’ve had people call me OP when I was using a cleric/settler amulet before, so I have a feeling that the whining won’t stop even if celestial is removed. :P

It’s more than just celestial. The offerings of amulets to allow for sustain-condi play have been relevant for a very long time now. Nearly everyone wants “safe” builds to compliment their play style. Celestial is indeed a problem along with might-stacking but again, only 2-3 classes abuse this so why nerf that and not the individual professions themselves?

Common sense dictates that a proper risk/reward style must be put in place and a lot of that is ignored due to either amulets, traits or skills. Going full defense/support while still putting out significant pressure makes little-to-no sense to me. There needs to be give.

As a Guardian i’m all for being replaced by another bunker but not the way it’s being currently done. Instead of having one profession supporting others while having not much for themselves, you have self-sustaining specs that also put out decent support and excellent pressure.

A short term fix: Remove celestial until you can balance the professions themselves and reintroduce it at a later date. No one likes bursting a target only to have it almost completely negated by targets high mitigation uptime and recovery. And lets not bring in the whole “well one class completely counters this spec” argument.

You guys should see rom ranting about dd cele, its hilarious lol

Simon.3794:

You guys should see rom ranting about dd cele, its hilarious lol

Hopefully more people rant about it. It is incredibly OP right now and needs to be adjusted.

BlackBeard.2873:

Celestial is fine, it SHOULD have more total stats because the stats aren’t specialized in any way. Its the whole “jack of all trades, master of none.” By being an “all-arounder” you are above average at everything, but not great at anything. It makes sense there is a price to specializing in specific direction.

Just try to play cele engie/ele without battle sigils and see how much weaker they are. Yes, you can purposely use your skill to might-stack, but that decreases your efficiency a bunch and you can’t get as high.

Now try playing any other build with an alternative sigil and see it doesn’t change your effectiveness that much.

Methinks the problem is battle sigil…

Note: This assumes you also don’t lightning-whip stow, which is a pretty stupid mechanic.

Great points at the start. The only issue is….classes who use cele ARE “Great” at nearly everything. Team support, damage, disengaging, etc. Like Arken said, though, the classes need the nerf more-so than the amulet. Though I’d like to see both.

NeXeD.3042:

If its not a problem for you then why mention it in a post that is about the celestial amulet…. has nothing to do with the use of stow weapon which I would argue is not a problem on ele, if you’re able to work lightning whip stow into your rotation well then you deserve that extra 300hp.

This thread is more or less about all the things that makes the amulet viable so in the case of the ele the stow trick is relevant. I agree that since players can use the stow trick they deserve to since the system allows for it. If anything it just needs more consistency either by patching up the loophole or introducing it as an official mechanic in the form of a bindable cancel action key.

As far as might stacking and duration goes I agree that it either needs to be shaved or additional ways to remove or steal boons should be added. The problem I take it as is the cele ele is able to offload their damage too well while building for survival. In this light shaving an extra 300hp on a questionable loophole is still the first step. I would argue if anything the problem with the celestial amulet is not that it is too powerful for conquest rather it is too powerful that limits the amount of build diversity.

I might have been mistaken about lightning whips dps being directly increased by stow weapon if there is no aftercast to bypass.

Celestial amulet isn’t OP. You ca outplay cele engi/ele with no problem when u know how to properly play against them with your class + there is something players will complain about, yesterday in SoloQ someone said that i am using cheesy OP engi build and I am playing 1shot zerker … facepalm

Blackari.2051:

Celestial amulet isn’t OP. You ca outplay cele engi/ele with no problem when u know how to properly play against them with your class + there is something players will complain about, yesterday in SoloQ someone said that i am using cheesy OP engi build and I am playing 1shot zerker … facepalm

Anything that kills me is broken and OP.

I’m with the sigil and rune crowd. When these changes came in is when we saw the Elementalist skyrocket back into the meta. Celestial was just icing on the cake. Even if not for the Ele and Engi issue, these sigils and runes likely need attention anyway seeing as how nearly every spec for every class is using them.

Amstel Steel.2058:

NeXeD.3042:

If its not a problem for you then why mention it in a post that is about the celestial amulet…. has nothing to do with the use of stow weapon which I would argue is not a problem on ele, if you’re able to work lightning whip stow into your rotation well then you deserve that extra 300hp.

This thread is more or less about all the things that makes the amulet viable so in the case of the ele the stow trick is relevant. I agree that since players can use the stow trick they deserve to since the system allows for it. If anything it just needs more consistency either by patching up the loophole or introducing it as an official mechanic in the form of a bindable cancel action key.

As far as might stacking and duration goes I agree that it either needs to be shaved or additional ways to remove or steal boons should be added. The problem I take it as is the cele ele is able to offload their damage too well while building for survival. In this light shaving an extra 300hp on a questionable loophole is still the first step. I would argue if anything the problem with the celestial amulet is not that it is too powerful for conquest rather it is too powerful that limits the amount of build diversity.

I might have been mistaken about lightning whips dps being directly increased by stow weapon if there is no aftercast to bypass.

There is a bindable cancel key…… they stow weapon key…. you hit the stow at the end of the cast before the aftercare so you end up not getting lightning whips second hit but it let’s you cast it again immediately so you barely lose any dps while gaining healing. But it’s not easy to do.

But it has literally nothing to do with the celestial amulet. And again I would argue it’s more effective with zerk mesmers using double air fire sigils and stowing weapon on mesmer gs1.