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Posted by: Volrath.1473

Volrath.1473

Anywhere you go everyone, there mother, there dog and there bird is playing condi spec… i mean, there and condis flying everywhere there are not enough condi removers in the universe to counter this…. there is NO WAY to survive this…

Necros are all condi
Engis are mostly condi
Thieves (about 50% of them are condi)
Rangers are condi
Mailman is condi
Buss driver is condi
….

Condis here condis there condis everyware….

On a more serious note… It is very clear (for me at least) that this game will never see any kind of balance and honestly, my patience for this ended a while ago.

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Posted by: Chaith.8256

Chaith.8256

Necro, Engi, Ranger vs. Guardian, Ele, Mesmer, Thief, Warrior

Forum Lord Chaith
Twitch.tv/chaithh
New Twitter: @chaithhh

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Posted by: Master of Timespace.2548

Master of Timespace.2548

Who really gives a kitten? As long as they can’t admit that their crappy conquest mode is just plain wrong, the game remains the nonsense it is atm.

? <(^-^><)>^-^)> <(^-^)> ?

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Posted by: Taym.8326

Taym.8326

Should nerf all condition specs if only to see all rangers quit the game because they don’t have a power build.

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Posted by: Arheundel.6451

Arheundel.6451

seriously…I’m sick tired of the current situation…condition spec are way over the top, at least you could still kill easily high burst builds, but these condition dmg are absolutely ridiculous, so tanky and the amount of pressure is unrealistic

It’s far too easy to spam conditions, professions like : necro-ranger-mesmer-engy they can fill you up with conditions with the godkitten auto-attack and we’re talking about 3-4 conditions at time.

On a point you place a necro and engy and they kill anybody who try to come on that point even if it’s 2 of them vs1, even if burst it’s the solution, you’re forced to pack as much condition removal as you can to even get a chance to hit them.

Necro-engy and mesmer can fill you up with conditions at 1200 range, by the time you even reach 900 range, 40-50% of your HP is gone and unless you’ve got stealth how the hell can you even approach the point unnoticed?

Engy players keep kittening crying that their profession is UP, my kitten engy it’s UP!
They can heal like [censored] while they fill you up with 6-7 conditions every 1-2s, they’ve got stun/daze/knockback…hey devs why don’t you give them a nuclear bomb directly? They’ve already got every possible condition, CC and heal almost like guardians..but pls warriors and eles need nerfs before everything

P.S hey engy got already a nuclear bomb and it’s called : Supply Crate, 2nd most OP elite in game after Time warp and Moa Form which occupy same 1st position

Necros….omfg…I changed my mind…I was so so wrong about them, you face 3 necros all chain fearing you, signet of spite, chill, bleeding,burning, cripple…every godkitten crap you can possible imagine

Then you get mesmer, confusion shatter everywhere and again: cripple, bleeding, confusion, torment and more and more

Finally you get trap rangers with their godkitten dog , traps everywhere….

Do I look frustated?
Well dear devs you tell me what I’m supposed to do when every single pixel on the screen is filled up with conditions, they just throw conditions at you like no tomorrow..pew-pew-pew…my god…

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Posted by: The Gates Assassin.9827

The Gates Assassin.9827

Necro, Engi, Ranger vs. Guardian, Ele, Mesmer, Thief, Warrior

Do we even need to ask who would win that 3v5? One word: Epidemic

Main: Raine Avina (Engineer)
Message me any time in game.

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Posted by: Kravick.4906

Kravick.4906

Why all the complaining about conditions all of a sudden. They haven’t changed. They do the same damage they’ve always done.

Stuff goes here.

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Posted by: Chaith.8256

Chaith.8256

Why all the complaining about conditions all of a sudden. They haven’t changed. They do the same damage they’ve always done.

IKR. I think people seeing their bar loaded with that one more condition type has a profound effect on how fast they seem to think they’re dying from conditions.

I think the real reason for the increased complaining is the 50% increase to Death Shroud 3, and spectral wall being introduced – the cherry on top, shall we say.

Forum Lord Chaith
Twitch.tv/chaithh
New Twitter: @chaithhh

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Posted by: Nilvio.7941

Nilvio.7941

Who really gives a kitten? As long as they can’t admit that their crappy conquest mode is just plain wrong, the game remains the nonsense it is atm.

this +100000000000000000000000

English is not my native language :)
RETIRED MESMER YO!

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Posted by: Zanthrax.6538

Zanthrax.6538

In what ways is conquest not a balanced competitive and fun format? In hotjoin is zerg vs zerg which is strictly a playerbase issue. In tpvp…conquest is a very solid gametype and far more compelling that deathmatch. I feel the secondary objectives needs boosting and there should be options for not just conquest etc. But yea…conquest is very solid….the meta could use changing though I like the idea of bunkers for nodes but not the aoe condi meta of insanity.

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Posted by: Romek.4201

Romek.4201

Game was more balanced before patch – ppl even said was best balance ever

its just silly to bring in a somehow “balanced” meta MORE Conditions without more conditionremovers and change it completly

chance now is lower to remove the bad condition with your “limited” condition removers cause 1 new condition + everyone and their dog spam conditions

game is not more balanced now cause noone can do anything vs conditionspam with their tools – only way to survive is burst the enemy before you are dead – gr8 gamedesign rly

their are not enough condiremove tools on all classes to can have a fair fight – its just not fun

edit: even pro guardians (the ones playing your e-spooooooooooooort tournaments^^), the class devs say is most balanced since release, think now bout classchange cause cant bunker anything and are useless on point – lol a lot teams even play now dps only or have 2 necros in team^^

(edited by Romek.4201)

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Posted by: Criminal.5627

Criminal.5627

Anywhere you go everyone, there mother, there dog and there bird is playing condi spec… i mean, there and condis flying everywhere there are not enough condi removers in the universe to counter this…. there is NO WAY to survive this…

Necros are all condi
Engis are mostly condi
Thieves (about 50% of them are condi)
Rangers are condi
Mailman is condi
Buss driver is condi
….

Condis here condis there condis everyware….

On a more serious note… It is very clear (for me at least) that this game will never see any kind of balance and honestly, my patience for this ended a while ago.

don’t forget real life has conditions too! we just call them STD’s and sadly we cant purge all of them!

but really the reasoning to this is because not all classes are balanced you would see these classes running power builds if they were as viable but sadly most of these classes don’t have any good power builds or the ones they have are no where near as good as conditions they can kill you with in half the time

Giant spiders of the world are just misunderstood creatures, they love to snuggle too.

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Posted by: stof.9341

stof.9341

That’s because power isn’t viable anymore. What the heck, how can people even think that doing direct damage and getting countered by weakness, protection and the fact direct damage on ranged weapons is always weak so all the anti melee effects like laying fields of AoE death at your feat, cripples, disengages etc…

And on the other side you get necro and engineer that can AoE apply at 1200 range conditions that deal easily as much damage that melee power builds can reach. And for sure a LOT more than ranged power builds.

Even funnier, you got necros that nearly completely ignore block, in a 1200 ranged AoE package while melees have to always deal with that pesky guardian or engineer block block block block block block …

Edit : forgot blind too. Sure blind affects both melee and ranged skills but ranged users have a much easier time getting rid of it and not getting the condition on them in the first place.

(edited by stof.9341)

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Posted by: Copenhagen.7015

Copenhagen.7015

That’s because power isn’t viable anymore. What the heck, how can people even think that doing direct damage and getting countered by weakness, protection and the fact direct damage on ranged weapons is always weak so all the anti melee effects like laying fields of AoE death at your feat, cripples, disengages etc…

And on the other side you get necro and engineer that can AoE apply at 1200 range conditions that deal easily as much damage that melee power builds can reach. And for sure a LOT more than ranged power builds.

Even funnier, you got necros that nearly completely ignore block, in a 1200 ranged AoE package while melees have to always deal with that pesky guardian or engineer block block block block block block …

Edit : forgot blind too. Sure blind affects both melee and ranged skills but ranged users have a much easier time getting rid of it and not getting the condition on them in the first place.

You’re right. There seems to be more ways to mitigate direct damage, and not enough ways to mitigate condition damage. Right now we have more conditions than boons, which means we could really use a new boon that helps deal with condition damage.

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Posted by: Criminal.5627

Criminal.5627

That’s because power isn’t viable anymore. What the heck, how can people even think that doing direct damage and getting countered by weakness, protection and the fact direct damage on ranged weapons is always weak so all the anti melee effects like laying fields of AoE death at your feat, cripples, disengages etc…

And on the other side you get necro and engineer that can AoE apply at 1200 range conditions that deal easily as much damage that melee power builds can reach. And for sure a LOT more than ranged power builds.

Even funnier, you got necros that nearly completely ignore block, in a 1200 ranged AoE package while melees have to always deal with that pesky guardian or engineer block block block block block block …

Edit : forgot blind too. Sure blind affects both melee and ranged skills but ranged users have a much easier time getting rid of it and not getting the condition on them in the first place.

You’re right. There seems to be more ways to mitigate direct damage, and not enough ways to mitigate condition damage. Right now we have more conditions than boons, which means we could really use a new boon that helps deal with condition damage.

MAKE IT HAPPEN!

  • Resilience (boon) – take 33% less condition dmg
  • Immunization(boon) – immune to conditions for x seconds
  • Bezoar(boon) – next condition fails to be applied

those of you that don’t know the word Bezoar, look up Bezoar stone

Giant spiders of the world are just misunderstood creatures, they love to snuggle too.

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Posted by: stof.9341

stof.9341

I’m not sure adding a new boon is a solution, there’s already too much of those, too much of everything really.

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Posted by: Dirame.8521

Dirame.8521

Apparently, this new meta of two necros is countered by two or three Eles. If your team can manage to get two or three eles then you’ll do great.

I make guides to builds you may not have heard of;
http://www.youtube.com/user/ceimash
http://www.twitch.tv/ceimash

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Posted by: Follidus.8027

Follidus.8027

To be honest I think it’s an issue of something that’s easier to play, but not necessarily more effective to play. Playing builds/compositions that can be played by (essentially) spamming things (whether it’s power damage, condi damage, evades, extreme bunkering, or whatever) is going to be a lot easier to play. When this happens these builds/compositions seem to scream “overpowered” in lower tiers of play. You kind of see this in other games as well.

I also think there’s some merit to the issue of something being new that you’re just not used to fighting. We see this a lot with builds when they first become popular.

But I do think necros were tuned in the wrong way. They already had a lot of offensive capabilities, but they lacked mobility and defensive abilities (they needed teams to peel for them). Essentially what happened was engis would put out more pressure with all their condi spam (which at least I think is a little too much) while also having better mobility and self-sustainability. What happened with this patch is these roles essentially got reversed. At least this is how I see it, but I don’t main necro or engi. This is also coming from someone that thought every class was ‘viable’ before the patch, but it just comes down to building your team around certain builds/classes if you wanted to run them, as well as certain things being easier to play (but not necessarily more effective) than others.

I think fixing paralyzation sigils and removing burning from necros would put them in a pretty good spot.

Also, our team comp we’re trying to run is: bunker guard // shatter mes // 2 s/d eles // trap ranger. I think it can work well, but I would say as a team we’re far from playing it at it’s full potential. It’s just something that takes time.

Cause I ain’t perfect, I never said I was.
But now they’re hating cause a brotha finally got some buzz
www.twitch.tv/Follidus – Team Absolute Legends

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Posted by: prozon.3561

prozon.3561

Many teams are testing new things at the moment, but condition is still too high.

The most advantage from team lineups with engi and necros you are able to play a very defense grp fight and for the kitten condition damage you will win in 90% vs any burst lineup. DPS lineups are not viable at the moment.


www.twitch.tv/mufasapk

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Posted by: FluxWing.7318

FluxWing.7318

The golden question is then: Why do we see Condition based builds all over the place?

And the answer is: It requires less investment than a “power”-based builds. Why the quotes? It would be more accurate to call it Power/Precision/Prowess based builds.

And to reach a meaningful Prowess(or crit dmg) of +50-60% you have a mandatory traitline locked up for you, regardless if the traits themselves are useful at all or not.
While conditions are so powerful that some classes that rely on them don’t even spec for condition damage at all. Yes the Cleric wielding Guardian/Elementalists relying on basedamage Burning for a huge portion of their dmg.

And this is why condition based damage is so strong. Because they can focus those crit and crit damage stat points into whatever they want. Toughness, vitality, healing or even power. Expertise/Condition duration only makes conditions more susceptible to cleanses anyway. Those 2-3 sec duration DoTs are almost uncounterable since they are gone before you could cleanse them, and if you cleanse them, they are designed to be applied every few sec anyway.

The only solution I see is to let Conditions crit. So that they do more damage? No, to let Conditions reach the damage they do today they must invest in Crit/Crit dmg stats.

Create a new amulet like the berserker’s, only with Condition damage instead of Power.
So: 798 Condition damage, 569 Precision ,284 Vitality, 15% crit damage.

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Posted by: Empathetic Fighter.2065

Empathetic Fighter.2065

To be honest I think it’s an issue of something that’s easier to play, but not necessarily more effective to play. Playing builds/compositions that can be played by (essentially) spamming things (whether it’s power damage, condi damage, evades, extreme bunkering, or whatever) is going to be a lot easier to play. When this happens these builds/compositions seem to scream “overpowered” in lower tiers of play. You kind of see this in other games as well.

I also think there’s some merit to the issue of something being new that you’re just not used to fighting. We see this a lot with builds when they first become popular.

But I do think necros were tuned in the wrong way. They already had a lot of offensive capabilities, but they lacked mobility and defensive abilities (they needed teams to peel for them). Essentially what happened was engis would put out more pressure with all their condi spam (which at least I think is a little too much) while also having better mobility and self-sustainability. What happened with this patch is these roles essentially got reversed. At least this is how I see it, but I don’t main necro or engi. This is also coming from someone that thought every class was ‘viable’ before the patch, but it just comes down to building your team around certain builds/classes if you wanted to run them, as well as certain things being easier to play (but not necessarily more effective) than others.

I think fixing paralyzation sigils and removing burning from necros would put them in a pretty good spot.

Also, our team comp we’re trying to run is: bunker guard // shatter mes // 2 s/d eles // trap ranger. I think it can work well, but I would say as a team we’re far from playing it at it’s full potential. It’s just something that takes time.

well said.
why I never saw you in the SOTG?

Read It Backwards [BooN]

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Posted by: TheLastBrohican.5376

TheLastBrohican.5376

In general there are two big ways to mitigate the condition damage you take:

1. Stack HP over Toughness (Toughness being used to counter raw damage/burst)
2. Don’t give the enemy the chance to overload you with conditions. Burst damage is a lot stronger than people think as the meta sets, both because of the susceptibility of Necros and Engies who spec for condi overload to it and because of some of the changes Thieves and Elementalists received in the balance patch.

This is all based off of solo queueing in spvp and a small amount of organized tpvp, so your WvW mileage may vary. Guardians have pretty great condi removal right now to boot, so I’m a happy camper!

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Posted by: Med.6150

Med.6150

That’s because power isn’t viable anymore. What the heck, how can people even think that doing direct damage and getting countered by weakness, protection and the fact direct damage on ranged weapons is always weak so all the anti melee effects like laying fields of AoE death at your feat, cripples, disengages etc…

And on the other side you get necro and engineer that can AoE apply at 1200 range conditions that deal easily as much damage that melee power builds can reach. And for sure a LOT more than ranged power builds.

Even funnier, you got necros that nearly completely ignore block, in a 1200 ranged AoE package while melees have to always deal with that pesky guardian or engineer block block block block block block …

Edit : forgot blind too. Sure blind affects both melee and ranged skills but ranged users have a much easier time getting rid of it and not getting the condition on them in the first place.

That’s exactly what the issue is currently.

Range builds are way stronger than melee builds and range condition builds simply dominate.

- AoE damage is out of control, which favors classes that can stay away from it
- There is no downside to range (or upside to melee builds for that matter). Melee builds have lower combat uptime (time in which you effectively deal damage), no higher self sustain, they are forced to overextend and get cut off from their team’s support and they take much more cleave damage in the process and can’t really fall back and retreat against ranged builds.
- There is no difference in condition application whether your attack applying the condition has 130 or 1200 range. The risk vs. reward is out of whack here

What needs to happen:

1. Re-examine and adjust combat based on the following factors:

- Combat uptime for builds
- Self sustain
- Burst/sustained damage and the reliability with which it is delivered

Builds that require 130 range to operate effectively should deal more damage than builds that can do so at up to 1200. You don’t want to go over board here, however. Instead, builds that have lower combat uptime, should have significantly superior self sustainibility.

Right now there really is no reason to play melee builds. They can work, but they are at a disadvantage. Even power based range builds are at a disadvantage, because they are hit or miss and have to go through a ton more defenses (this is a good thing and should apply to condition builds to the same degree).

The only power build/class worth bringing right now is the elementalist, but that’s solely due to their high self sustainibility, superior range and a burst capability that is immensely high while being based almost entirely on instant skill combos.

(edited by Med.6150)

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Posted by: tom.7468

tom.7468

If you are not using a ranger,necro,theif,engineer with conditions then you are not using a pvp build and should be expected to be stomped and then don’t come crying here on the forums.

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Posted by: Myrmidian Eudoros.4671

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671

To be honest I think it’s an issue of something that’s easier to play, but not necessarily more effective to play. Playing builds/compositions that can be played by (essentially) spamming things (whether it’s power damage, condi damage, evades, extreme bunkering, or whatever) is going to be a lot easier to play. When this happens these builds/compositions seem to scream “overpowered” in lower tiers of play. You kind of see this in other games as well.

I also think there’s some merit to the issue of something being new that you’re just not used to fighting. We see this a lot with builds when they first become popular.

Follidus = Dead on.

Necro pre-patch was probably the highest skill floor class in the game with Engineer being the only debatably close second. When the patch hit the bar got lowered (probably by a bit too much considering the post-patch offensive capabilities). People saw that Necro got massive changes, so everyone wanted to test them out. This lead to multiple necros winding up in solo que comps and rolling over teams that they had no business beating, because the teams will ill prepared for that kind of condition overload. Once people saw dual necro comps rolling over teams the bandwagon jumpers and QQers took over, so you have this odd state where everyone is playing a necro when in game and in their spare time they come to the forums to cry for nerf. This is stupidity.

Necro could stand a tweak, but in skilled play it isn’t wildly out of balance. They don’t need a nerf hammer. There are counters that work.

For people saying that DPS is not viable: You are flat wrong. Most of the time when I see a multi-necro comp on my opponents’ team I will character swap specifically to DPS in order to have the upper hand, and it has worked. You have to run some different skill sets than you would have before the patch, and you have to invest a little time getting competent with the new build that you run as a counter, but it isn’t a big deal.

When the next patch hits they are going to tweak more things, and there will be more change to the meta. Hopefully they raise the skill floor for Necro without destroying the top end capabilities, but we’ll see.

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Posted by: Empathetic Fighter.2065

Empathetic Fighter.2065

To be honest I think it’s an issue of something that’s easier to play, but not necessarily more effective to play. Playing builds/compositions that can be played by (essentially) spamming things (whether it’s power damage, condi damage, evades, extreme bunkering, or whatever) is going to be a lot easier to play. When this happens these builds/compositions seem to scream “overpowered” in lower tiers of play. You kind of see this in other games as well.

I also think there’s some merit to the issue of something being new that you’re just not used to fighting. We see this a lot with builds when they first become popular.

Follidus = Dead on.

Necro pre-patch was probably the highest skill floor class in the game with Engineer being the only debatably close second. When the patch hit the bar got lowered (probably by a bit too much considering the post-patch offensive capabilities). People saw that Necro got massive changes, so everyone wanted to test them out. This lead to multiple necros winding up in solo que comps and rolling over teams that they had no business beating, because the teams will ill prepared for that kind of condition overload. Once people saw dual necro comps rolling over teams the bandwagon jumpers and QQers took over, so you have this odd state where everyone is playing a necro when in game and in their spare time they come to the forums to cry for nerf. This is stupidity.

Necro could stand a tweak, but in skilled play it isn’t wildly out of balance. They don’t need a nerf hammer. There are counters that work.

For people saying that DPS is not viable: You are flat wrong. Most of the time when I see a multi-necro comp on my opponents’ team I will character swap specifically to DPS in order to have the upper hand, and it has worked. You have to run some different skill sets than you would have before the patch, and you have to invest a little time getting competent with the new build that you run as a counter, but it isn’t a big deal.

When the next patch hits they are going to tweak more things, and there will be more change to the meta. Hopefully they raise the skill floor for Necro without destroying the top end capabilities, but we’ll see.

It doesn’t have to do something with high skillfloor or not. Necro pre-patch had to be babysitted by other classes to work. This has nothing to do with high-play, you need just a setup to work around necro. That is the same with the warrior now. You can build up a setup around this class and it’s working. But the deficit is overlapping the posivite aspects of this.

MiM for eg. played a long time with warrior. They had brought a bunker-ele to effieciently heal the warrior up, while the warrior can sustain enough to do the damage. This works pretty well in static teamfights, but as soon as you have to split your team up, that’s a heavy disadvantage.
The necro had the same problem. Since the patch his survivability hasn’t changed, but the effectiveness of his dmg-output is overhelming and replaced infact the old placeholder named HGH.

Read It Backwards [BooN]

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Posted by: Rassase.7943

Rassase.7943

conditions from necro are too much now, need nerfing quick.

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Posted by: LeGi.3921

LeGi.3921

That’s because power isn’t viable anymore. What the heck, how can people even think that doing direct damage and getting countered by weakness, protection and the fact direct damage on ranged weapons is always weak so all the anti melee effects like laying fields of AoE death at your feat, cripples, disengages etc…

And on the other side you get necro and engineer that can AoE apply at 1200 range conditions that deal easily as much damage that melee power builds can reach. And for sure a LOT more than ranged power builds.

Even funnier, you got necros that nearly completely ignore block, in a 1200 ranged AoE package while melees have to always deal with that pesky guardian or engineer block block block block block block …

Edit : forgot blind too. Sure blind affects both melee and ranged skills but ranged users have a much easier time getting rid of it and not getting the condition on them in the first place.

so much truth in these words.

there is a reason why every EU Top Team is switching to AOE-Conditions and just keeping a burst mesmer/ele because of their utility/support in teamfights. well probably to finish low targets too but thats just a bonus.

We Are Extremly [ugly]

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Posted by: Daecollo.9578

Daecollo.9578

I like how warriors are not even on the list.

Hero {} Roleplayer {} Friend {} Professional Princess Saver
https://twitter.com/TalathionEQ2

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Posted by: LeGi.3921

LeGi.3921

warriwhat? have they made it through the beta?

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Posted by: uberkingkong.8041

uberkingkong.8041

mesmers have null field, engineers have elixir c, elementalist have multiple ways to cure them. if your so worried about them bring something to cure yourself.

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Posted by: stof.9341

stof.9341

Null Field? The kitten utility that cures one condition per second for 5s and forces you to stay in a small radius to eat more conditions and damage on the way?

It IS a good skill but it’s not a panacea really. If it purged all conditions on everyone at each pulse it’d be good.

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Posted by: JETWING.2759

JETWING.2759

:D

Welcome the club!

I play warrior and always suffered with condition, Anet just ignore or notice :/

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Posted by: JETWING.2759

JETWING.2759

That’s because power isn’t viable anymore. What the heck, how can people even think that doing direct damage and getting countered by weakness, protection and the fact direct damage on ranged weapons is always weak so all the anti melee effects like laying fields of AoE death at your feat, cripples, disengages etc…

And on the other side you get necro and engineer that can AoE apply at 1200 range conditions that deal easily as much damage that melee power builds can reach. And for sure a LOT more than ranged power builds.

Even funnier, you got necros that nearly completely ignore block, in a 1200 ranged AoE package while melees have to always deal with that pesky guardian or engineer block block block block block block …

Edit : forgot blind too. Sure blind affects both melee and ranged skills but ranged users have a much easier time getting rid of it and not getting the condition on them in the first place.

You’re right. There seems to be more ways to mitigate direct damage, and not enough ways to mitigate condition damage. Right now we have more conditions than boons, which means we could really use a new boon that helps deal with condition damage.

MAKE IT HAPPEN!

  • Resilience (boon) – take 33% less condition dmg
  • Immunization(boon) – immune to conditions for x seconds
  • Bezoar(boon) – next condition fails to be applied

those of you that don’t know the word Bezoar, look up Bezoar stone

I supose Thieves will have access to all these boons, and warrior will no have accesse to any of them :P

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Posted by: Archer Henchman.2534

Archer Henchman.2534

so much truth in these words.

there is a reason why every EU Top Team is switching to AOE-Conditions and just keeping a burst mesmer/ele because of their utility/support in teamfights. well probably to finish low targets too but thats just a bonus.

Well, its not entirely true. Some teams are moving towards S/D-centered power-spike builds because of how powerful fresh air is.

If you look at the patch history, however, you’ll note why condis are so prevalent:

Power necro in lich form + old timewarp used to belt out approximately 80k damage within 10 seconds. Shortbow on thief prior to the trickshot nerf used to deal around 50k sustained damage in team fights over 10 seconds as well. These two setups allowed power-specs to deal consistent damage from a position where they could avoid AoE with the downside that if they weren’t free-casting, their pressure would drop substantially.

Then timewarp got kitten on and shortbow as a primary damage vector for thieves gets removed. Consistent ranged power dps gets demolished. Warrior, losing frenzy, largely drops from the limelight.

Enter the pre-nerf ele: D/D becomes the fotm unkillable power-spec that provides consistent damage and peels. Because of its strengths, the build could both roam and sit on points effectively. D/D also has access to magnetic grasp, earthquake, chill application off frost aura + water 3 and updraft. Not only does D/D kitten on melee classes with pre-nerf frost aura, but D/D is also the most powerful spec for setting up warrior spikes with its powerful burst + cc.

Ele gets nerfed in pretty much every patch until present.

Subsequently BM ranger is introduced, which largely uses increased base pet damage in conjunction with hyper-defensive weaponsets to wear out opponents while overwhelming them with pet damage. Thieves running a similar evasion-centric S/D build in reaction to the rise of engineers, rangers, and the continuing presence of rangers.

Pet damage is reduced in the last patch. Rangers become more reliant on player applied condi damage. S/D is heavily nerfed.

There’s been a massive homogenization of classes in the balancing methods used by the dev teams, largely based on which classes are being badmouthed on the forums. Players have noticed this, which is why you notice such spirited defenses of necros by necro players in this most recent patch cycle; they know the complaints are going to lead to class specific necro nerfs rather than giving teams the opportunity to deal with a necro-centric teams’ methods of generating advantage. This last patch is a great example, with necros gaining burning to attempt to reach condi application parity with engineers, rather than having their skills focused on traditional necro mechanics. Lets look at a different way of adjusting mechanics:

Ex:
If ‘save yourself’ for instance, was on a longer base cooldown, but lowered cooldown for every stack of conditions that it pulled in, for instance, it would make an incredible pairing with the new smite-condition. If you add a cast time to smite condition, increase its cooldown, then allow it to clear all condis with a conditional effect if it clears x or more condis, suddenly there’s a massive amount of counterplay; if you’re playing guard, 2 condi-cleave + and 1 power spiking class, do you attempt to wait for the save yourself then try to interrupt the smite? Do you try to bait out the save yourself with immobilizes that set up your S/D ele or D/P thief, then move into full condi cleave? Do you blind the smite’s conditional, or do you hold back your high-value CC condis like immobilize and chill until the guardian pops his combo? Do you bait out non-guard condi removal with chills and immobs, then just stack bleed/burn/poison exclusively to force a long duration save yourself+smite combo which you respond to by fearbombing the kitten out of their team? Do you intentionally condi-cleave with the aim of corrupt + epi bombing off the save yourself? Do you run a lyssa guardian specifically to allow you to whiff the smite, and if you do, is your team supposed to win before the lack of melandru or mercy starts to kitten with your team’s sustain? Do you intentionally bait out a lyssa in order to corrupt?

That’s what this game could be about. Every single play up there could be the topic of a shoutcaster’s screaming ‘holy kitten’ moment. Every single play involves a specific setup as a part of a team’s advantage engine rather than an individual. Every single play sounds fun to play as or against, with counterplay and yomi thinking extending 2-3-4 levels deep.

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Posted by: Fenrir.5493

Fenrir.5493

The problem is this games rely too much on bunker builds and the only thing that a bunker cant bunker is conditions.

This game is messed up since they decide armor dosent matter at all, so any light armor medium armor will have nearly the same damage mitigation than a heavy armor wearer, then they maked protection, aegis, regen and let light armor classes to bunker better than any heavy armor user wich has no sense, then people are runing bunkers because the game mode is to hold points, how do you hold points? with a bunker.

Armor should be important again and thoughness should reduce condition damage, also thougness should reduce the crit damage/crit chance then nerf protection maybe, or nerf all the bunker specs so they dont rely on boons to bunker, this changes will reduce and tone down condition damage and burst damage that needs to be toned down too.

“We also realize that we can make mistakes but we dont care because I HAVE THE POWAAA!!”

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Posted by: Stof.9584

Stof.9584

That’s because power isn’t viable anymore. What the heck, how can people even think that doing direct damage and getting countered by weakness, protection and the fact direct damage on ranged weapons is always weak so all the anti melee effects like laying fields of AoE death at your feat, cripples, disengages etc…

Agreed.

I hated Necro being lower tier, but my enjoyment of the game hasn’t been lower than it is currently.

In general, I find power builds are more fun to play and play against than AOE condi cleave or unkillable boon share comps.

Desolation EU – Necromancer / Thief
Top 100 Solo Q for a full minute

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Posted by: Romek.4201

Romek.4201

just come from a soloQ match with 3 necros in enemy team facerolling everything

Dear arenanet

This game is NOT fun anymore – it is frustrating and anoying like hell.
And to hear from your dev in state of the game “ye necro is op and will be nerfed but we patch only 1x per month” is just disheartning – this should be HOTFIXED days ago.
A 5 year old can see whats wrong

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Posted by: DXIEdge.2789

DXIEdge.2789

Necros have been this way for 1 week. 1 week only.

If by July 9th they arent fixed, they will be toned down. This was stated!

You need to realize that before this, Condi wasnt in the meta as much. Builds need to be changed to accomodate the condi influx that has occurred.

The game is almost completely balanced at higher tier. Unfortunately Solo Que shouldnt be the game mode that it currently is, as it results in people QQ"ing as such. In all honesty necros arent the problem with communication. They are uncoordinated-team-killers due to the AoE of Epidemic (which is probably one of the larger issues in all honesty. In some situations this is the highest DPS skill in the game, bar none. 15 second cooldown to spread burning, 10+ stacks of bleed, poison and torment? on TOP of cripple, chill, weakness and blind? Ok….)

R40! Ele/Ranger for GW2 Esports Guild
@DXIEdge on twitter.

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Posted by: Rainbow Eyelids.8461

Rainbow Eyelids.8461

Who really gives a kitten? As long as they can’t admit that their crappy conquest mode is just plain wrong, the game remains the nonsense it is atm.

nothing wrong with conquest. objectives are the way to go in almost all cases, this one included. otherwise it would be a constant 5v5 fight all day long. conquest makes it so you have to split the group up and… haven’t you played any other competitive games before? why do i even have to explain this?

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Posted by: Ultima.8673

Ultima.8673

right atm on highskilllevel u see advantages in condiplay due to necros aoe condiburst (too much condis to clean..) their tankyness (second healthpool) and their cc (fear) if they combine their profession with stunbreaker it becomes too strong. i always thought condis were damage over time… but atm the condi is more a burst… right atm the important condis: burn confusion, poison , highbleedstacks were too good covered…

the engineer does the roamerjob and can also neutralize, hold and get nodes …: highcondiburst, cc, tankyness due to rabid amulett, this selfrez (cleanses all condis) which gives the engi 2 continues ( are u kidding me anet?) very strong mobility and access to stability…

how do you counter condimeta? highhealthpoolchars, condicleaner, boons(regeneration..), heals and necros, special sigils and runes

the problem is condis are not affected by any toughnessstats while powerbased chars are affected to toughness, protection & weakness… if u run a powerclass u mainly have low health (ele , guardian, thief). unfortunately the battlemode is a 3 node game.. and if u split ur team u will have 1v1 3v3 1v1 or 2v2v 2v2 1v1 and condiclasses are just better in this fights, more survivability than powerchars (in health and toughness).

imo in a 1v1 a perfect played necro will beat every player so kittening hard! he can kill solo all bunker without a problem very fast !

if arenanet wont fix this meta. i have a classsetup in my head. u will vomit if u see it..

this patch was a punch in the faces of all powerbasedbuilds especially for the warrior, ele thief and guardian :/

(edited by Ultima.8673)

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Posted by: Nova Stiker.8396

Nova Stiker.8396

this patch was a punch in the faces of all powerbasedbuilds especially for the warrior, ele thief and guardian :/

ArenaNet wanted to make condition builds more viable for build diversity.
Which translates to – Add condition builds with power builds.

Someone should tell them diversity is play style, NOT STATS!! The Fire Magic line for Elementalist, nearly every single trait is to increase damage. Embers Might and Burning Rage is the exact same trait, WORD BY WORD, that is pathetic.

Don’t just increase damage, change how the person plays. For example:
Burning Rage – If you are chilled, crippled or immobilized when you use a Fire skill, remove chilled, crippled and immobilized, gain Quickness for 2 seconds. (45 second cooldown.)

Arcane Precision – When you land a critical hit, gain an Arcane Precision Stack, each stack adds 5 precision (max 25 stacks.) At 25 stacks, when you use your elite skill you also summon a Lesser Elemental based on your attunement and lose all stacks.

Elemental Surge – Damage from Arcane Skills are reduced by 50%, Arcane Skills now have a secondary effect.
*Activating Arcane Wave, you will gain Arcane Power
*Activating Arcane Power, you will activate Arcane Blast.
*Activating Arcane Blast, you will gain Arcane Shield.
*Activating Arcane Shield , will you activate Arcane Wave.

ArenaNet lacks creativity in their combat design. I can put their combat design to absolute shame.

Not to mention there are still bugged runes and traits. Auramancer trait and Vampire Rune are still bugged after nearly a year. Auramancer doesn’t trigger on combos and Vampire Rune doesn’t steal health after you heal.

Needless to say they failed terribly.

(edited by Nova Stiker.8396)

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Posted by: Blood Red Arachnid.2493

Blood Red Arachnid.2493

I said it before, and I’ll say it again. The hate for conditions now is largely based on circumstance and perception. With necros buffed and a new condition, everyone is playing around with these conditions. This means there are a lot of conditions flying about, and because of that you are more likely to take notice. Direct damage also doesn’t have nearly as clear of an indicator, showing cause of death from individual skills whereas condition damage comes just from “bleeding” with no indication as to where it came from.

The whole meta has yet to adjust, too. So many players have spent their time learning to stack protection and toughness that they don’t heavily focus on condition cleanses. So, I leave you guys with a list of L2P

1)Attacks have to hit you before you can get conditions. Learn to dodge, block, blind, and stun in response.
2)Conditions can be cleansed away, and nearly every class has multiple cleansing options. If conditions are too much of a problem, then learn to bring more cleanse.
3)There is nothing wrong with stacking vitality over toughness, or investing in something other than pure DPS or pure Bunker.
4)Recognize that it is possible to be killed by direct damage/condition damage, and that you will die from either of these frequently. It is nigh impossible to make a build that is immune to everything.
5)Direct damage does more damage and does it quicker. Direct damage also benefits from all of those “increase damage by 20% when enemy is under half health” kind of things, causing it to grow geometrically and very quickly. Direct damage builds are not dead.

Seriously. I logged on to my guardian the other day, and without changing his build from months ago, went to hotjoin and killed people just by chasing them around with the auto attack, and conditions weren’t that big of a problem. Sad part was, this was an old spirit weapons build I had (30/20/0/0/20), which can probably be made better nowadays.

I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.

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Posted by: Empathetic Fighter.2065

Empathetic Fighter.2065

Seriously. I logged on to my guardian the other day, and without changing his build from months ago, went to hotjoin and killed people just by chasing them around with the auto attack, and conditions weren’t that big of a problem.

Just as a tip. If you write a serious reply, never ever mention “Hotjoin” in it. Never!

Read It Backwards [BooN]

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Posted by: Reymis.2158

Reymis.2158

So basically what condition classes are saying is use ALL of your available choices to make your class unique condition removers. This way there are 2 specs in the game, one spec puts tons of conditions on you and the other just tries endlessly to remove them. This does sound extremely fun does it not? I run heavy condition cleanse on my guardian but having to spec that way for every class would just plain be boring. So much for class diversity eh?

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Posted by: GuyWithTroll.5197

GuyWithTroll.5197

If you keep an elementalist specced for condition removal in your team, then you may not have these problems. As an elementalist, I can tell you that the reason we don’t spec for this often is because team-mates don’t even try to take agro off of us when we play support builds.

I am sure the other casters can remove conditions as well, though I dunno cuz I only play ele.

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Posted by: GuyWithTroll.5197

GuyWithTroll.5197

So basically what condition classes are saying is use ALL of your available choices to make your class unique condition removers. This way there are 2 specs in the game, one spec puts tons of conditions on you and the other just tries endlessly to remove them. This does sound extremely fun does it not? I run heavy condition cleanse on my guardian but having to spec that way for every class would just plain be boring. So much for class diversity eh?

No. You have teams comprised of different specs and classes. Play as a team…

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Posted by: Alkaholic.3875

Alkaholic.3875

Early it was burst…“WORST META EVER”
then it was bunkers…“WORST META EVER”
now it’s condi’s…“WORST META EVER”

Some people just want to whine…

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Posted by: TheMightyAltroll.3485

TheMightyAltroll.3485

Should nerf all condition specs if only to see all rangers quit the game because they don’t have a power build.

Yes they do. Try going full signets with Shared signets. I can easily crit for 6k damage off Greatsword 2, while still being survivable.

Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.

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Posted by: RusShiro.9241

RusShiro.9241

Well, I hope PvP gets more game modes where a warrior condi or not can play