Guild Wars 2

To be perfectly honest I don’t get stats in sPvP. This is the main reason why I don’t play sPvP all that much. Making a build is confusing. I don’t know what I am getting from what I am putting in. I understand PvE builds I don’t understand PvP builds.

In PvE a lot of pepole study and go by the following:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Equipment_acquisition_by_stats

Then they come into sPvP and they see …….. Not that. They now need to re-learn how to do their build. I can see how this can be frustrating for a lot of players.

So my question with those who do sPvP and make builds a lot is would it hurt to basically have the Top Tier gear freely given in sPvP and have the stat distribution like PvE. So we can move freely from PvP in WvW to PvP in sPvP without re-thinking our entire play.

How would ballance and everyone on a even level come into play with this?

Nothing could ruin pvp. It is a disaster unfortunately.

It would be weird. PvE builds are almost twice as powerful (in some stats) as PvP builds are. I think the team wanted to limit PvP builds because they knew that PvE builds would become ridiculously powerful. In a duel between two glass cannons, the first hit would win. That’s not exactly good for PvP.

I don’t know that it wasn’t the best decision, but it would be really hard to change now.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Nothing could ruin pvp. It is a disaster unfortunately.

Thus part of the reason why I am having this discussion. I have Identified a reason why I don’t play and proposed a solution. Do you think that the changes as listed above would effect balance in a negative way.

NevirSayDie.6235:

It would be weird. PvE builds are almost twice as powerful (in some stats) as PvP builds are. I think the team wanted to limit PvP builds because they knew that PvE builds would become ridiculously powerful. In a duel between two glass cannons, the first hit would win. That’s not exactly good for PvP.

I don’t know that it wasn’t the best decision, but it would be really hard to change now.

Yes it would be hard to change but it is something worth considering.

My thinking was it is harder to balance some PvE builds to PvP builds. I just wanted to confirm that with someone who knows PvP builds better then I do. Perhaps they could make PvP builds easier to understand like PvE builds are.

Yeah, it’s so confusing having to choose that one single amulet with those 3 stats you need…
/facepalm

<3 the templates, it would make things so much nicer.

I think one complaint though is the way stats are so different in PvP vs PvE. This isn’t just the actual number of stats you get, which I think is fine as is, because PvE/WvW damage is stupidly high, but also the way you get stats. In PvE if you want to run full berzerker but want just a wee bit of defenses, you can swap out a single accessory from berzerker to soldier. In PvP you get two choices; amulet and jewel. You can do a bit of tweaking with runes and traits, but often times your build is too dependent on specific runes/traits that you can’t just change things around to get a bit more precision.

Bhawb.7408:

<3 the templates, it would make things so much nicer.

I think one complaint though is the way stats are so different in PvP vs PvE. This isn’t just the actual number of stats you get, which I think is fine as is, because PvE/WvW damage is stupidly high, but also the way you get stats. In PvE if you want to run full berzerker but want just a wee bit of defenses, you can swap out a single accessory from berzerker to soldier. In PvP you get two choices; amulet and jewel. You can do a bit of tweaking with runes and traits, but often times your build is too dependent on specific runes/traits that you can’t just change things around to get a bit more precision.

THIS.

Spreads the stats on Amulet a bit more so that we can customize our stats a bit better.

Bhawb.7408:

<3 the templates, it would make things so much nicer.

I think one complaint though is the way stats are so different in PvP vs PvE. This isn’t just the actual number of stats you get, which I think is fine as is, because PvE/WvW damage is stupidly high, but also the way you get stats. In PvE if you want to run full berzerker but want just a wee bit of defenses, you can swap out a single accessory from berzerker to soldier. In PvP you get two choices; amulet and jewel. You can do a bit of tweaking with runes and traits, but often times your build is too dependent on specific runes/traits that you can’t just change things around to get a bit more precision.

This might also help for those that are used to the diversity of builds in PvE and WvW or have no friends. Then try to do it in sPvP then get this jarring effect of no that can’t be done. I understand the need to restrict but would it hurt to spread out the trinkets a little for minor adjustments to a build.

Diversity in builds is what I think makes a good balanced esport.

Agreed with Bhawb about the ability to tweak stats in PvE/WvW.

I also have another point that has probably already been made at some point but comes from someone who plays primarily PvE/WvW and has done some intermittent PvP. One of the things that many people find cool about MMOs is the ability to keep going after you are “done” with the game. How many times have we played single player RPGs where we put time and energy into a character, their gear, their stats, etc and then poof, the game is over. MMOs are great in that new content comes out but additionally, there is a game mode where you actually get to test out your skills on other players.

It feels like the transition from PvE to WvW is easier than the transition from PvE to PvP and my guess is that some of that comes from the fact that it is your character in WvW. The gear you worked for. The stat distribution you made. The legendary you put hours upon hours into. The character you play in PvP (coming from PvE) does not feel lke your character, at least for me. That is not to say that certain skills should be less or more effective in PvE vs. PvP. There definitely needs to be some split. But how nice would it be if you could use the same gear and same weapons that you use in PvE?

PvP definitely needs some rewards and this could be through the ability to obtain skins that (1) look epic and (2) can only be obtained through PvP. There should be other rewards as well but I cant think of ideas off the top of my head.

Sepreh.5924:

There definitely needs to be some split. But how nice would it be if you could use the same gear and same weapons that you use in PvE?

I think this is what they meant when they said that GW1 was not programed for vertical progression. So I don’t see this happening. Which is why it is not here in this game.

This is also not what I am asking about either. PvE has some pre-defined builds by the game that allow you to make some tweaks. PvP does not. So the template system may help alleviate this somewhat. As long as there are some base builds for some basic archetypes that people can tweak a bit more for just a little bit of extra this or that stat here or there.

anzenketh.3759:

This might also help for those that are used to the diversity of builds in PvE and WvW or have no friends. Then try to do it in sPvP then get this jarring effect of no that can’t be done. I understand the need to restrict but would it hurt to spread out the trinkets a little for minor adjustments to a build.

Diversity in builds is what I think makes a good balanced esport.

Hmm, not sure if that is needed.
Currently you have 100 different combinations.
If you add other trinkets, this number rises to 500.
Do you really need that? It would be more confusing rather than simplier.

Oni Link.4621:

anzenketh.3759:

This might also help for those that are used to the diversity of builds in PvE and WvW or have no friends. Then try to do it in sPvP then get this jarring effect of no that can’t be done. I understand the need to restrict but would it hurt to spread out the trinkets a little for minor adjustments to a build.

Diversity in builds is what I think makes a good balanced esport.

Hmm, not sure if that is needed.
Currently you have 100 different combinations.
If you add other trinkets, this number rises to 500.
Do you really need that? It would be more confusing rather than simplier.

Honestly don’t know. What runes do what are a bit confusing at the moment so I am not good at creating builds. Templates will help people get builds but not build them.

How many combinations are meaningful to each class though? You can have 1 million “options” in a game, but if only 2 of them are actually competitive and meaningful options, you really only have two options.

let us change the stats per item to fully be able to modify our builds how we see fit. Just like in Pve/WvW

the amulet system will never allow for any build diversity since you will be very limited on your choices.

Brando.1374:

let us change the stats per item to fully be able to modify our builds how we see fit. Just like in Pve/WvW

the amulet system will never allow for any build diversity since you will be very limited on your choices.

That limit is absolutely voluntary to prevent some stat combinations. Example: Knight in SPvP gives Vitality instead of Toughness.

Allie Murdock.8152:

The balance in PvE vs PvP will always be different,

Sorry Allie, no harsh feeling. Is this comment coming from you only but not Devs? If so, can you please tell them to split balancing already, because as the way they are doing it now is hindering both…

Bhawb.7408:

<3 the templates, it would make things so much nicer.

I think one complaint though is the way stats are so different in PvP vs PvE. This isn’t just the actual number of stats you get, which I think is fine as is, because PvE/WvW damage is stupidly high, but also the way you get stats. In PvE if you want to run full berzerker but want just a wee bit of defenses, you can swap out a single accessory from berzerker to soldier. In PvP you get two choices; amulet and jewel. You can do a bit of tweaking with runes and traits, but often times your build is too dependent on specific runes/traits that you can’t just change things around to get a bit more precision.

I think they could reduce the stats the amulet gives and increase the stats on the jewel,

or they could just split the amulet/jewel into 5 pieces of jewelry like in PvE

I think they could do two things with it. One would be to just make it a ton of small stats, say 5 trinkets with upgrade components, so 10 individual stat-givers instead of 2. It wouldn’t be difficult for anyone to understand, as it is exactly the same as PvE, and would give people more customization and fine tuning of builds, without actually complicating anything.

The other possible change would be to make there be more stat choices, and make the stat choices better. I know I have heard complaints about Rampager gear for a long time, because not only is it a hybrid stat combo, but its terribly done. Not saying they need to go crazy with it, but certain smart additions could make things a bit better.

Having Valk, Shamans and Knights amulets give different stats from same name gear used in the rest of the game is confusing for new players. These should have been called something different… Also celestial amulet seems a lot less worthwhile stat wise compared other amulets to PVE celestial gear….

But yeah, more customization or making the jewell more meaninfull (even amulet = 2/3 stats, jewell = 1/3 stats) would be far more interesting and may actually promote more build variety

Could you not have a set amount of points available on an amulet and certain stats ie: berserker stays power,prec,crit damage but allow customization of how many stats go to each. I understand this could lead to imbalances so certain things would have to cap but it would allow a lot more personal play if you want some toughness but more power or some healing but lots of toughness. Might just be a crap idea but I’ve seen similar ideas work in other mmos.

Bhawb.7408:

I think they could do two things with it. One would be to just make it a ton of small stats, say 5 trinkets with upgrade components, so 10 individual stat-givers instead of 2. It wouldn’t be difficult for anyone to understand, as it is exactly the same as PvE, and would give people more customization and fine tuning of builds, without actually complicating anything.

The other possible change would be to make there be more stat choices, and make the stat choices better. I know I have heard complaints about Rampager gear for a long time, because not only is it a hybrid stat combo, but its terribly done. Not saying they need to go crazy with it, but certain smart additions could make things a bit better.

Couldn’t possibly agree more with this. Been wishing things were this way since the very start of this game … one amulet & jewel as source of primary stat customization really feels limiting when it comes to creating builds, especially a build that doesn’t completely suck due to poorly distributed stats.

To me this is just another side effect of 90% PvE focus, and 10% PvP focus. 2 weeks for Living story updates & new things to do and what not else they throw in there. And 2-4 months between any kind of noticeable balance changes (that generally blow) for PvP. :/

I really have to give credit and kudos to those out there who still believe in Arenanet after all this time, ya’ll have some mad patience, really. Because personally, I have absolutely no faith in them anymore, and I quite literally await the next patch ready to laugh at how bad it is and then probably play even less afterwards, because that’s how it’s been ongoing.

Considering this game is free to play, I’m really not that motivated to play it. Usually I’ve had my fill for a day (if not more) after just completing my Daily PvP.

Allie Murdock.8152:

The balance in PvE vs PvP will always be different, but there are certain tools that will help make the swap less jarring once they are complete. What I’m talking about is templates. If you played GW, they had templates that you could create and share with friends both in the game and outside of the game.

These templates would save all of your characters stats (armor, weapons, traits, skills) so that you could click a button and everything would swap over. This is something we would like to do in GW2 to help players swap between different areas of the game.

meanwhile you are working on templates, rework also the guardian, make him a monk, put a flag on map and give community the real gvg.

Templates would be a must. Right now I’m only using my ele for spirit watch as it has the runner build. Since there are no templates, I can’t (don’t want) quick swap the build and play ele when another map comes up in solobadmatchmaking arena.

Oni Link.4621:

Brando.1374:

let us change the stats per item to fully be able to modify our builds how we see fit. Just like in Pve/WvW

the amulet system will never allow for any build diversity since you will be very limited on your choices.

That limit is absolutely voluntary to prevent some stat combinations. Example: Knight in SPvP gives Vitality instead of Toughness.

I am not saying they didn’t do this intentionally (disallow some stat combinations) but at the end of the day I think its still giving them too much credit to think they actually knew what stat combinations are op and what are not based on how they have balanced this game for pvp which imo, and a lot of people’s opinion, is quite poorly. Something tells me they did some very quick and dirty reasoning why x, y, z might be op in some situations were very little actually testing to back it up decided not to include those combinations for spvp. Also, we are getting new stat amulets at some point soon so obviously they feel some other combinations of stats are permissable.

Allie Murdock.8152:

The balance in PvE vs PvP will always be different, but there are certain tools that will help make the swap less jarring once they are complete. What I’m talking about is templates. If you played GW, they had templates that you could create and share with friends both in the game and outside of the game.

These templates would save all of your characters stats (armor, weapons, traits, skills) so that you could click a button and everything would swap over. This is something we would like to do in GW2 to help players swap between different areas of the game.

It would be fantastic to be able to post templates into the forums in a visual format so you could post builds without the use of a 3rd party site. Even cooler would be the ability to save a build posted on the forum and being able to open the game and have that template be there. I don’t know if that’s technically possible but it would be the best thing in forum history for me.

1.5-3k current views is pityful, quake 3(live) can get 3-6k viewers and its a 14 year old game with players with only a few 1000 players

so many people are wrong on this just because nobody has actually experienced it. in wvw. a 5 v 5 is 20X more enjoyable than in pvp because burst builds are actually viable, and conditions start to fall off and are more about CC, bunkers require to set up with teammates, ect ect… each build has its place and its actually MORE balanced. in pvp its all condie spam bullkitten and such. nobody is gonna take a 50% crit chance and 50% crit damage when you can have lik 1500 condie damage. wake up anet

Allie Murdock.8152:

The balance in PvE vs PvP will always be different, but there are certain tools that will help make the swap less jarring once they are complete. What I’m talking about is templates. If you played GW, they had templates that you could create and share with friends both in the game and outside of the game.

These templates would save all of your characters stats (armor, weapons, traits, skills) so that you could click a button and everything would swap over. This is something we would like to do in GW2 to help players swap between different areas of the game.

Oh God please yes! Templates! Now! Now! Now! <3

I’m sorry, but I find nothing enjoyable about casually walking around in WvW and then getting 2/3rds of my HP dropped from an invisible thief who proceeds to run away and CnDs on a bunny.

WvW is even less balanced than PvP, and it always will be.

Bhawb.7408:

I’m sorry, but I find nothing enjoyable about casually walking around in WvW and then getting 2/3rds of my HP dropped from an invisible thief who proceeds to run away and CnDs on a bunny.

WvW is even less balanced than PvP, and it always will be.

I don’t really think WvW balance is all that important because in the end you’ll always need a group in order to take important objectives. I never understood the dislike for “zergs,” I think large armies of players clashing is pretty darn cool. So long as something isn’t game breakingly broken even if you say have a train of Hammer Warriors that doesn’t make them unbeatable, superior tactical play while having some other classes built to counter the CC can still win.

I get tired of people getting mad when they lose 1v1 in a game type designed around groups of people. Same holds true for PvP, even if a build is strong 1v1 that doesn’t make it OP if it only preforms OK in team fights. Even the Hammer/Longbow build that people are calling OP now has some very obvious limitations, lack of mobility being one of the bigger ones.