Guild Wars 2

Since it doesn’t seem to be much focus on balance and rebalance of existing skill, do you think more options in Elite Specializations save PvP? For the record, I never purchase HoT, so when I play, I play normal core builds. I do fine with this, but not all players are as good, so they need extra Elite skills to help. If the upcoming expansion brings more Elite Specializations, then PvP devs won’t have to worry about game balance. Players will be able to balance ourselves, since they can swap skills to counter builds they keep dying from! Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock!

that could of being done with the existing builds
no new specializations will save pvp
they could of buffed the current ones

I’m just trying to come up with ideas to save PvP. It doesn’t seem like Anet is doing or saying much to help, so us players should step up and give advice.

I think they could, by introducing a new spec and giving the base classes some sort of buff just for using the base classalary. There would then be 3 options per class, I think it would be a little rough at first but with more options balancing might actually be easier.

what might save pvp is choosing to support a game mode that isn’t a sideshow in other big pvp games (like league of legends. dominion was widely panned and is only slightly different from gw2 conquest).

…prolly too late

insanemaniac.2456:

what might save pvp is choosing to support a game mode that isn’t a sideshow in other big pvp games (like league of legends. dominion was widely panned and is only slightly different from gw2 conquest).

…prolly too late

Do you think that Anet was embarrassed from being dropped by ESL, so now they abandoned PvP?

More elite specs could be good because then you have a choice in what elite spec to use, thus increasing build diversity. The problem is that anet will just make the next elite spec even more OP than the current ones. History isn’t promising otherwise.

Natto.5819:

insanemaniac.2456:

what might save pvp is choosing to support a game mode that isn’t a sideshow in other big pvp games (like league of legends. dominion was widely panned and is only slightly different from gw2 conquest).

…prolly too late

Do you think that Anet was embarrassed from being dropped by ESL, so now they abandoned PvP?

while that could be construed as embarrassing I don’t think anet will openly acknowledge anything that even resembles embarrassmentioned and I don’t think any less or more resources will be directed pvps way as a consequence.

anet has never been fast enough at responding to balance issues and that’s a far larger problem than esl dropping gw2.

Breaking up build diversity would probably be good for the game’s health, since at the moment we always know what to expect; that Thief’s a DD, that Necro’s going to corrupt boons and that Ele is going to be a healbot. With some more elite specs we might see some shaking up in the meta, but they’d have to balance the new specs properly for that.

I’m somewhat positive that they’re going to be over-the-top powerful at launch though…

No.

HoT elite specs were so detrimental to GW2 (not just PvP) because they have overly strong damage and defense, and that defense covered for a lot of player mistakes. It used to be that you had to avoid burst or big attacks to survive, and people who didn’t were punished for it. Now everything does a lot of damage, so you have to have constant spam defenses. And because of those constant spam defenses, it’s harder to land those powerful attacks, and many are instantly marginalized by automatic defense. To top it off, the bonuses of many HoT elite specs are direct upgrades – no trade-offs at all.

ANet has two options to fix the problem:

1. Big nerfs to HoT elite specs. However, since many HoT elites still have glaring gameplay issues, this may make them too weak. Remember that many were bad during BWEs and had numbers (damage, duration, cooldowns) buffed immensely at launch to cover up lackluster gameplay mechanics.

2. Make at least one core line into an elite spec – probably the one that deals with F# skills like Virtues, Arcane, Illusions, Discipline, etc. This would be accompanied by small nerfs to HoT elite specs and some core traits and potential buffs to that new core elite line. In making that core line mutually exclusive with future elites, ANet has less to worry about with negative interactions, especially with elite spec focus often being on the F# skills.

Only temporarily.

The problem here is that Anet’s balance schedule is too infrequent. It takes them too long to reach decent balance at the cost of stale meta.

New metagame and better rewards. Nuff said. No joke, this is all we need for now, with automated tournies in the future.

and how are new players that test the game gonna be impressed with the game if they go try pvp with core traits if they will be weaker than elite ones?
i actually have a friend that wants to test the game and he says he is interested in pvp.

i speak only the truth, i said to him that he might not like pvp in this game but if he wants a good game in general gw2 is a good choice.

i cant imagine someone newcomer coming to to this game and adapt with classic specializations at the moment especially a guy that didnt play a lot mmos before.

solution is either buff core traits for newcomers or nerf the elite ones so they dont get absolutely stomped.

In terms of build diversity, yes. Having more E-specs will leave options for different playstyles. The reason why we got super power creed’d in the first place is of two things. One is that when E-Specs dropped they dropped only one into the game, pretty much every E-spec remedied a lot of previous flaws the base class had and improved on profession mechanics or added to it. Though to be fair it did open playstyles not previously possible to function decently. The second is Anet didn’t do anything to make a base class worth taking over a E-Spec except with a few rare instances in PVE builds. Having multiple good options is what it’s really all about.

People should be looking forward to future E-Specs being dropped in the game, so there’s instances where it goes “should I choose Chrono or should i go with [X Memser E-Spec here].” Also opening up different playstyles. I know there are a ton of mesmers that still want a spec that isn’t so much reliant on clones or Phantasms for more sustained damage, or rangers having to rely on pets to make up a portion of their damage. I’m sure necros will get something like mobility or active defenses in the future too since it’s pretty desired for necro players.

Also if you want to add that E-Spec ruined the game, no it wasn’t the only culprit, just the whole Specialization system in general. even before HoT was dropped in.

Exedore.6320:

No.

HoT elite specs were so detrimental to GW2 (not just PvP) because they have overly strong damage and defense, and that defense covered for a lot of player mistakes. It used to be that you had to avoid burst or big attacks to survive, and people who didn’t were punished for it. Now everything does a lot of damage, so you have to have constant spam defenses. And because of those constant spam defenses, it’s harder to land those powerful attacks, and many are instantly marginalized by automatic defense. To top it off, the bonuses of many HoT elite specs are direct upgrades – no trade-offs at all.

ANet has two options to fix the problem:

1. Big nerfs to HoT elite specs. However, since many HoT elites still have glaring gameplay issues, this may make them too weak. Remember that many were bad during BWEs and had numbers (damage, duration, cooldowns) buffed immensely at launch to cover up lackluster gameplay mechanics.

2. Make at least one core line into an elite spec – probably the one that deals with F# skills like Virtues, Arcane, Illusions, Discipline, etc. This would be accompanied by small nerfs to HoT elite specs and some core traits and potential buffs to that new core elite line. In making that core line mutually exclusive with future elites, ANet has less to worry about with negative interactions, especially with elite spec focus often being on the F# skills.

I reached tier 3 Gold and I don’t have HoT. I think Elite Specs helped bad players become reasonable, but still not good enough. With more options, then the internal meta balance will shift always because there would be too many counters to everything. No one class will be OP anymore. And if Anet will keep allowing casuals to compete in Ranked PvP, at least give them more tools to be useful.

Save? No. To save sPvP ranked seasons you just need to fix the rewards so people play again.

Elite specs will shake up the meta and give players more options. Certainly fun but not game-saving.

In one of the leaks (so nothing exactly confirmed) I read that they are aiming for at least 25k/sec on every new elite spec which would be reasonable for pve… But Unless we get to play with 5k toughness, hell kitten no!

And even if that’s not true they will still make the new elite specs op so people buy the game (and nerf them as soon as they start soloing raid bosses….)

Entenkommando.5208:

In one of the leaks (so nothing exactly confirmed) I read that they are aiming for at least 25k/sec on every new elite spec which would be reasonable for pve… But Unless we get to play with 5k toughness, hell kitten no!

And even if that’s not true they will still make the new elite specs op so people buy the game (and nerf them as soon as they start soloing raid bosses….)

Think they were aiming for pretty much any class to have a few builds (not just new elite specs) that do that amount of DPS so nobody would be excluded from certain content due to not doing enough damage.

If everyone is meta, nobody is meta.

Besides 25k+ Dps benchmarks are a thing for most classes anyways.

it’s been my theory for a while now, that anet have the game on the back burner till the expansion is ready to ship/beta.

like, it’s very lazy but it makes sense.
a new expansion will get new players into the game, & bring back & reinvigorate returning players.
so letting pop decrease is ok, because it’s assumed the expansion will bring it back up.

as far as balance goes, why balance now when you will have to rebalance with the expansion. so don’t bother & wait.

so, best case w expansion is a big balance patch & new specialisations that are on par w the current elites. sure, its not going to solve the powercreep from HoT, but we’d get build diversity.

alternatively anet can just add another tier of powercreep & watch this game really go down the drain lol.

it would be a temporary solutioni

ideally elite specs powerwise have to be equal with core but assuming they wanna make some money and value pve over pvp which they do.

Then must absolutely and I mean absolutely not make the new elite specs anymore powerfull then the curren ones!!!

That is the best thing they could comprise on to increase build diveristy.

If elite spec=core is a no go

Then for the love of god and all that is holy and good in this world. Do not make them more powerfull then the current elite specs. Please do not make firebrand more powerfull then DH. Also do not create elite specs with a role almost 100 percent similar to it’s previous class.

When u make berserkers which are warriors in an enraged state as another option.

Or daredevils who are bassically more agile thiefs.

then due to the similarity of the role there is nothing else they could then buff it.

if A-net keeps them on par with the hot elite specs we will have increased build diveristy.

i am big fan of diversity , more builds and counter builds
for pvp you have to remember

top players fight within groups which practice together thus they create builds which complete each other and eventually become meta build 90% of them.
so more elite lines probably yield the same resulty for each class 1 meta build

if anet could balance each class to be able to play each role like bunker, healer, dmg, sustain than we might see more diversity

the last season we saw the same team compositions and same builds so it became boring.

so i say more builds more core builds and elite ones. i want to see several meta builds for each profession

than it would become even more interesting as one team would have to guess what the other is playing and plan their tactic aswell

They have everything they need to fix the current state of pvp. Rework some weapon skills that arent used OR just adjust what they do for pvp. This has been done slightly but it could be done on a huge scale to balance the game and make it so there isn’t just a meta build for each class but theyd have to commit to it.

Sarrs.4831:

Save? No. To save sPvP ranked seasons you just need to fix the rewards so people play again.

Elite specs will shake up the meta and give players more options. Certainly fun but not game-saving.

New or better rewards wouldnt save the game at a competitive level in any way. Plenty of people mostly play pvp over other game types because they like the style better in which case rewards isnt the issue, balance and diversity of classes is.

Entenkommando.5208:

In one of the leaks (so nothing exactly confirmed) I read that they are aiming for at least 25k/sec on every new elite spec which would be reasonable for pve… But Unless we get to play with 5k toughness, hell kitten no!

25k/s is low end for PvE currently. Condi Engi already parses at 35k/s

You need to realize that those numbers are assuming, 100% fury uptime, 100% 25 stacks of might uptime, 100% alacrity uptime, 100% quickness uptime, Warrior banners, GOTL stacks, Spotter, and Empower Allies buff.

Without all those buffs you’re looking at 10k dps tops.

Crinn.7864:

Entenkommando.5208:

In one of the leaks (so nothing exactly confirmed) I read that they are aiming for at least 25k/sec on every new elite spec which would be reasonable for pve… But Unless we get to play with 5k toughness, hell kitten no!

25k/s is low end for PvE currently. Condi Engi already parses at 35k/s

You need to realize that those numbers are assuming, 100% fury uptime, 100% 25 stacks of might uptime, 100% alacrity uptime, 100% quickness uptime, Warrior banners, GOTL stacks, Spotter, and Empower Allies buff.

Without all those buffs you’re looking at 10k dps tops.

Vuln uptime as well. And even with it doesnt mean you’re doing 25k every hit just that you are averaging 25k per second. It will go up and down as your cycle your rotation. Also keep in mind this is with pure glass ascended something that not only doesn’t exist in PVP but would be impractical.

The zerker amulet has less stats then the ascended armor so even if you run it you wont put out the same DPS on a CCd player as you would on a training dummy. Not even factoring in defensive CDs, dodges, and amulets with defensive stats,

GweenDwagon.6705:

New or better rewards wouldnt save the game at a competitive level in any way. Plenty of people mostly play pvp over other game types because they like the style better in which case rewards isnt the issue, balance and diversity of classes is.

I honestly don’t really care about the competitive level above the ranked seasons at the moment.

Plenty of people are perfectly happy to play any of two or three modes and if they’re trying to pick between modes they can and will pick whichever one gives them the most stuff. S7 rewards were very lean so I didn’t play it because I have limited playtime and would rather spend that elsewhere.

People who care for spvp don´t play it for the rewards. They play it for compete and having a good game. Pve people are the only ones who misuse spvp as a grinding place.
But thats not want it should be about, and obviously not what it was suppose to be about.

gw niko.1049:

People who care for spvp don´t play it for the rewards. They play it for compete and having a good game. Pve people are the only ones who misuse spvp as a grinding place.
But thats not want it should be about, and obviously not what it was suppose to be about.

I hate when people say this.

You play for a reason, seriously i this stuff drives me insane.

Helseth, Noscoc and many of the other Pro players have all said things like they were gonna quit the game but Anet came out with X to keep them around.

For instance they came out with Leader Boards, for many of us it was about getting as high of possible of a ranking.

I made top 300 in solo que and top 500 in team que. Anet removed these and then things like AG tournaments- ESL- WTS – TOL tournaments came.

Then the Grind Boards came out. After 2 of those we the Pro Leagues, why are people leaving?

Because there is nothing to play for.

PvE players dont want to play because they killed rewards. Pro players dont want to play because they already know, im sorry but the top 50 players in the game know who they are and they know the others at that level.

The above average player like myself, i want to be challenged by playing the best players in the game, potentially get a top 250 spot that gives a unique item and make some gold off of it.

I didnt play this season till 2 weeks left simply because i saw none of the top players were playing. A cheap way to get a top 250 title, as a competitor it doesnt sit right with me if i got in the top 150 knowing the 50 ESL players from the Pro League are not even playing.

And they nerfed rewards to where i have to craft now? WHAT ANET, THERE ISNT EVEN CRAFTING STATIONS IN THE MISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As someone who played alot of ball back in the day. The first step is proving your the best in your school, then the area, then the state, then the country and finally the world.

Players like MJ and Bill Russel retire way before there time is because they are looking for the next challenge.

If there is no challenge, people will stay for the cow/ cash/ shiny drop.

This past season is a perfect example of no one really having a reason to play and it showed with a 100 or so gold 3 players getting into the top 250 NA.

kdaddy.5431:

gw niko.1049:

People who care for spvp don´t play it for the rewards. They play it for compete and having a good game. Pve people are the only ones who misuse spvp as a grinding place.
But thats not want it should be about, and obviously not what it was suppose to be about.

I hate when people say this.

You play for a reason, seriously i this stuff drives me insane.

Helseth, Noscoc and many of the other Pro players have all said things like they were gonna quit the game but Anet came out with X to keep them around.

For instance they came out with Leader Boards, for many of us it was about getting as high of possible of a ranking.

I made top 300 in solo que and top 500 in team que. Anet removed these and then things like AG tournaments- ESL- WTS – TOL tournaments came.

Then the Grind Boards came out. After 2 of those we the Pro Leagues, why are people leaving?

Because there is nothing to play for.

PvE players dont want to play because they killed rewards. Pro players dont want to play because they already know, im sorry but the top 50 players in the game know who they are and they know the others at that level.

The above average player like myself, i want to be challenged by playing the best players in the game, potentially get a top 250 spot that gives a unique item and make some gold off of it.

I didnt play this season till 2 weeks left simply because i saw none of the top players were playing. A cheap way to get a top 250 title, as a competitor it doesnt sit right with me if i got in the top 150 knowing the 50 ESL players from the Pro League are not even playing.

And they nerfed rewards to where i have to craft now? WHAT ANET, THERE ISNT EVEN CRAFTING STATIONS IN THE MISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As someone who played alot of ball back in the day. The first step is proving your the best in your school, then the area, then the state, then the country and finally the world.

Players like MJ and Bill Russel retire way before there time is because they are looking for the next challenge.

If there is no challenge, people will stay for the cow/ cash/ shiny drop.

This past season is a perfect example of no one really having a reason to play and it showed with a 100 or so gold 3 players getting into the top 250 NA.

Man Helseth, Noscoc and co are only the tiny rest pieces of serious spvp players what was left. There great majority of the orinial spvp community was gone years ago. Anet just managed nicely to replace those with this reward-chest-farming pve people, so the spvp populaton got a boost by that.
You leave, anet promises, you come back, leave, anet promesis, you come, back, …… that´s the game and the hope for some change holds it running. And some are just more patient with it then others.

I didn´t meant spvp players don´t care for rewards at all, I enjoy the fancy skins too.
I just meant that real spvp players won´t stay long just for that, they want the competition and some real balace content and you kind of told the same even if you denyed that right before.
For pve people it´s good enough to have a crap pvp like it is today when the rewards are fine enough. But for real spvplers that´s not enough to hold them, they will leave sooner or later when the game continuously sucks like it does today and they see that anet doesn´t care at all.
And again. The spvp community didn´t just leave with Helseth, Noscoc and co, it was already gone long before. They were just the few ones who lasted the longest.

gw niko.1049:

And again. The spvp community didn´t just leave with Helseth, Noscoc and co, it was already gone long before. They were just the few ones who lasted the longest.

You mean in the first 50.000 dollar tournaments , where 60% of the teams ceased to exist , because their members where under 18 and they merged with each other ? (there was a 18+ rule to participate)
The under 18 , went mostly in LoL to exploit its huge viewership ?
Or other under-18 where aiming to participate in the qualifiers and sent another person in the Live Tournaments ? (damm snitches …when money are involved..)
Or teams , like Pagramid…Pigramid (FOR THE LOVE OF THE GODS!!!) where its members where from Egypt (laywer) + America(vailkyre amulet) + Germany (shasha or akazukin chacha) + Europe , and they coulddnt play together …because ppl from Europe could play ONLY with other Europian for the europian qualifiers ?

(or something like that …
i didnt understand the part ‘’I CAN BE THERE ON MY OWN’’ spoamming in twitch)