Guild Wars 2

What if condi cleanse removed the condi with the most stacks currently on you while prioritizing damaging condis so you don’t constantly remove nothing but vulnerability.

what if I get immobilized? If I had any kind of damaging condis on me while also having that immob then any clear I used would prioritize the damage condis over the immob even though in most cases I would rather clear the immob than the damaging condis.
Your change would make immob ranger gods because there immobs would almost never get cleared.

The problem with trying to make “smart condi clear” is that the condi that you want to cleanse the most varies from situation to situations. The other problem is that you’d effectively kill off the ability of condi classes to cover their important dps condis which in turn would completely destroy the viability of most condi classes. (except corruption necro because corrupts)

The current system of cleansing the left-most condi on your bar works better in that it’s entirely consistent and makes understanding how effective a clear will be a certain time very intuitive for both the cleanser and the condi applier.

On a aside I’d also mention that there are situations where you want to clear Vulnerability. Getting 20+ stacks of vuln on you does occur in PvP from time to time and taking a extra 25% damage from every hit will get you killed really fast.

What if you could choose manually which condis you would want removed 1st, 2nd, etc, obviously before a match in PvP or whatever .Every situation is different but still it would make condis less overpowered while still making it viable.

Koto.1824:

What if you could choose manually which condis you would want removed 1st, 2nd, etc, obviously before a match in PvP or whatever .Every situation is different but still it would make condis less overpowered while still making it viable.

That would completely delete the viability of every condi build.

All comes down to condi managment. 1v1 its fine but once you get condi focused by multiple people you can’t cleanse 8 conditions at once. Blame anet for making protection readily available and not resistance.

Crinn.7864:

Koto.1824:

What if you could choose manually which condis you would want removed 1st, 2nd, etc, obviously before a match in PvP or whatever .Every situation is different but still it would make condis less overpowered while still making it viable.

That would completely delete the viability of every condi build.

How so? You would still get the same amount of condis, just condi clears are more powerful now. Plus who likes getting 20 stacks of confusion and one stack of vulnerability, and having the vulnerability cleared?

FrownyClown.8402:

All comes down to condi managment. 1v1 its fine but once you get condi focused by multiple people you can’t cleanse 8 conditions at once. Blame anet for making protection readily available and not resistance.

Last time I checked protection wasn’t total damage negation the way cleansing is.

Also last time I checked condi stacks aren’t unique by source.

Also last time I checked you can still evade and block condi applying skills.

Also last time I checked being able to cleanse every condi even while being tunneled by multiple condi classes would result in condi classes being 100% useless 100% of the time.

Koto.1824:

How so? You would still get the same amount of condis, just condi clears are more powerful now. Plus who likes getting 20 stacks of confusion and one stack of vulnerability, and having the vulnerability cleared?

Who likes having their damage cleared with no way to counter act?

The only reason condi builds work is because they can cover there more important condis with weak ones. If that wasn’t possible condi builds would be completely shut out due to the large amount of clears available.

This wouldn’t solve the problem of condis doing too much damage. That comes from lower condi attack CDs, traits that allow quick stacking and the condition buffs from June 23, 2015. Adding more resistance isn’t good because powercreep and whatnot. So why not just reduce condition damage? Power damage needs to drop too, but that’s a different topic. Resistance could be nerfed as well to reduce the effectiveness of conditions on you by half while not reducing duration. So damage conditons would hit half as hard, vulnerability would only increase damage by half a percent, immobilize would reduce movement speed by 50%, chill would be 33% instead of 66%, and cripple would be 25% movement speed reduction. With nerfs like that, Condi revs could get a buff to resistance uptime to compensate (or just rework it to actually be good).

Crinn.7864:

what if I get immobilized? If I had any kind of damaging condis on me while also having that immob then any clear I used would prioritize the damage condis over the immob even though in most cases I would rather clear the immob than the damaging condis.
Your change would make immob ranger gods because there immobs would almost never get cleared.

The problem with trying to make “smart condi clear” is that the condi that you want to cleanse the most varies from situation to situations. The other problem is that you’d effectively kill off the ability of condi classes to cover their important dps condis which in turn would completely destroy the viability of most condi classes. (except corruption necro because corrupts)

The current system of cleansing the left-most condi on your bar works better in that it’s entirely consistent and makes understanding how effective a clear will be a certain time very intuitive for both the cleanser and the condi applier.

On a aside I’d also mention that there are situations where you want to clear Vulnerability. Getting 20+ stacks of vuln on you does occur in PvP from time to time and taking a extra 25% damage from every hit will get you killed really fast.

Smart condi clear could work if it was prioritized by most dangerous conditions first. Something along the lines of

Immobilize always has top priority

Then high vulnerability (~17+ stacks) and confusions

Then Burning, Torment, Bleeding, Poison, Med Vuln stacks (~8-16?)

Chill, Cripple, fewer than 8 vuln stacks

Weakness

Obviously this would need tweaking as its off the top of my head. But under this, condis in higher priority lists are always cleared before condis in lower lists, but within each tier they are cleared the same way they currently are (AKA last one in first one cleared). So if you got hit by confusion then torment, torment would be cleared first. But if you got hit by confusion, torment, immobilize, bleeding, immobilize would be cleared first and bleeding would be cleared last.

Its more complicated to implement, more complicated to learn for newer players, but overall I think it would be more fair to the players and would help ANet to balance condis without completely gutting their damage (since it would be harder to “cover up” more damaging condis with weaker ones by applying the weaker ones afterwards)

Play a different game.

This game got broke, and they will never fix it.

Lol, there are some classes that already cleanse condi so fast that I can’t get any bleed to stick to them on a build that applies bleed with almost every hit.
But then there are some classes that are just utterly helpless against condi spam.
I think a happy middle ground needs to be found to make the situation less polarizing.

Cecilia.5179:

Lol, there are some classes that already cleanse condi so fast that I can’t get any bleed to stick to them on a build that applies bleed with almost every hit.
But then there are some classes that are just utterly helpless against condi spam.
I think a happy middle ground needs to be found to make the situation less polarizing.

Why?

Some class being strong against and some classes being weak against, is what makes build crafting interesting. It forces players to make pro/con choices. Equalizing clearing capabilities just takes that much depth out of the game.

in meta there are few condi builds and many direct damage / support build. So Condi are not out of control. If condi builds were so op every class would use it . If you tune down conditions you have to tune down direct damage too otherwise classes which have not good dps builds will be erased .

If condition dmg would work like power dmg and require 3 stats..we wouldn’t be here discussing, we wouldn’t be here is condition dmg had a stat working against it, like toughness to direct dmg.

People trying to say that something like this : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skull_Grinder can be cleared with skills like this:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Fire

Luckily I can play professions that can send back that feeling of helplessness..back to the condition builds

Supreme.3164:

If condition dmg would work like power dmg and require 3 stats..we wouldn’t be here discussing, we wouldn’t be here is condition dmg had a stat working against it, like toughness to direct dmg.

People trying to say that something like this : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skull_Grinder can be cleared with skills like this:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Fire

Luckily I can play professions that can send back that feeling of helplessness..back to the condition builds

Conditions use 2 stats ( condi duration and condition damage ) but they are not immediate as direct damage so it would be a little unfair if they have a 3rd statistic. And in any case 2 stats ( precision and ferocity ) are a boost of damage, condition damage has no real boost except the base value. It is a different mechanic. How many classes have a condition based meta ? I know mesmer and perhaps necro ( even if many necro are power) . The other 7 i think of no so i don’t think condition builds are now so overpowered

only 2 class really use condi really well, chrono and reaper the rest are power. both of this class die really easy when focus.

PierPiero.9142:

Supreme.3164:

If condition dmg would work like power dmg and require 3 stats..we wouldn’t be here discussing, we wouldn’t be here is condition dmg had a stat working against it, like toughness to direct dmg.

People trying to say that something like this : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skull_Grinder can be cleared with skills like this:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Fire

Luckily I can play professions that can send back that feeling of helplessness..back to the condition builds

Conditions use 2 stats ( condi duration and condition damage ) but they are not immediate as direct damage so it would be a little unfair if they have a 3rd statistic. And in any case 2 stats ( precision and ferocity ) are a boost of damage, condition damage has no real boost except the base value. It is a different mechanic. How many classes have a condition based meta ? I know mesmer and perhaps necro ( even if many necro are power) . The other 7 i think of no so i don’t think condition builds are now so overpowered

And power based builds have 4 stats they need to spec for. This automatically makes condi builds easier because they only have to slot 1 condi stat (2 if they are serious and want duration) and are absolutely free to have the last stat or two on their gear be all about survivability. Or they can even go for a hybrid build and have all the stats for condis so they can still pull off condi bursts at full power and still have impressive power damage to back it up. Its a broken system fundamentally.

Condi classes shouldn’t be allowed to have “free” stat slots to slot for toughness/vitality/extra power damage because power based builds don’t share that same luxury.

PierPiero.9142:

OriOri.8724:

PierPiero.9142:

Supreme.3164:

If condition dmg would work like power dmg and require 3 stats..we wouldn’t be here discussing, we wouldn’t be here is condition dmg had a stat working against it, like toughness to direct dmg.

People trying to say that something like this : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skull_Grinder can be cleared with skills like this:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Fire

Luckily I can play professions that can send back that feeling of helplessness..back to the condition builds

Conditions use 2 stats ( condi duration and condition damage ) but they are not immediate as direct damage so it would be a little unfair if they have a 3rd statistic. And in any case 2 stats ( precision and ferocity ) are a boost of damage, condition damage has no real boost except the base value. It is a different mechanic. How many classes have a condition based meta ? I know mesmer and perhaps necro ( even if many necro are power) . The other 7 i think of no so i don’t think condition builds are now so overpowered

And power based builds have 4 stats they need to spec for. This automatically makes condi builds easier because they only have to slot 1 condi stat (2 if they are serious and want duration) and are absolutely free to have the last stat or two on their gear be all about survivability. Or they can even go for a hybrid build and have all the stats for condis so they can still pull off condi bursts at full power and still have impressive power damage to back it up. Its a broken system fundamentally.

Condi classes shouldn’t be allowed to have “free” stat slots to slot for toughness/vitality/extra power damage because power based builds don’t share that same luxury.

There is not VT amulet on condition. Look at amulets . You have not free stat with condition. If you take toughness you can not have vitality ( rabid , wanderer ) , if you take vitality ( carrion ) you can not take toughness. (sinister and viper have no defensive stats at all ) . There is nothing like Paladin in a condition build , where you can have toughess and vitality togegher …. Are u speaking of wvw or spvp ? becouse in spvp there is no the problem you are talking. The only amulet which is s carrion with power vitality and condition damage, but you have no toughness so you have to play only on your active defense and you have no condi duration so the condition damage output is mitigated ( only 1 of the 2 stat). Perhaps you are speaking of wvw …. and i don’t play only condition builds so i am not defending it for this .
with sinister and viper you have great damage, but it is like playing berserker… 0 sustain … It is paladin amulet imho which is quite wrong …

You still miss the point. While yess the paladin amulet is strong, you have to give up ferocity to get that sustain, which is really important for a power based build. Condi builds don’t have to make such sacrifices because there is only 1 stat which affects condi damage.

OriOri.8724:

You still miss the point. While yess the paladin amulet is strong, you have to give up ferocity to get that sustain, which is really important for a power based build. Condi builds don’t have to make such sacrifices because there is only 1 stat which affects condi damage.

…and then you realize that condi builds do around 30 to 40% of their DPS in power damage. So not taking power damage stats costs condi builds.

Besides Dire gear doesn’t exist in sPvP so the entire “number of stats needed” is completely irrelevant.

Even with dire gear there are only a few condi builds that are too strong. Many condi builds are bad regardless of stats.

OriOri.8724:

You still miss the point. While yess the paladin amulet is strong, you have to give up ferocity to get that sustain, which is really important for a power based build. Condi builds don’t have to make such sacrifices because there is only 1 stat which affects condi damage.

To be honest, people who complain about conditions miss the point. 1st, condition damage is an alternative to direct damage, not a compliment/supplement of direct damage and is therefore designed to kill an opponent on its own. Hybrids try to make good use of both, but still have to give up something whether critical hits or sustain, etc.
2nd, condition skills have to hit like their direct damage counterparts, which means they can be dodged, blocked are more importantly are subject to cleansing – there are no equivalents for direct damage cleansing only heals, which also mitigates condition damage (sometimes heals even cleanse too along with replacing health).
3rd, conditions have to be applied, subsequently stacked and must remained stacked in order to do enough damage to be meaningful in combat. This is unlike direct damage which is capable of generous amounts of instantaneous damage and more so with critical hits and ferocity – its not a “need” power build have do reasonable amounts of direct damage they augment their direct damage with crit/ferocity in a way conditions cannot (bunker type of builds can still do respectable/comparable damage while having an increased sustain).
Finally, the multiple stats argument isn’t an adequate comparison because there is only one other stat that benefits condition builds and that is expertise – a duration increase that increases overall damage because of the length of time a condition is applied. In short, you have to exchange higher and faster condition damage for duration (again, conditions have to be stacked to do respectable damage but never truly equivalent to dps because that’s not possible due to dps’ ability to do critical hits). This makes expertise inferior to critical chance and ferocity with respect to damage output in sPvP because of both the speed of the game, and the variegated ways of removing and/or mitigating conditions. It is not worth increasing duration at the expense of immediate damage conditions, which actually stick, do.

Soothsayer.9206:

one other stat that benefits condition builds and that is concentration – a duration increase

That’s not concentration. That stat is called expertise.

Condi is fine. Condi removal is not fine.

We need more/better options to remove condi and hard CC. HoT added condi-barf (classes can load you with 5-8 conditions instantly) but did not give enough mass condi removal to compensate.

Archon.6480:

Condi is fine. Condi removal is not fine.

We need more/better options to remove condi and hard CC. HoT added condi-barf (classes can load you with 5-8 conditions instantly) but did not give enough mass condi removal to compensate.

100000000..infinity this ^

It’s not right that on some professions you insta die when getting condi bombed, there is no recovery from condi bombs outside direct cleansing.

Ok I can accept the fact that once caught with your pants down…you should die fine, but given how some condi bombs are too easily accessible ( looking at you skullgrinder-plague signet-boon conversion )….more professions should access to full condi removal..nothing stupidly OP, even something on a 60s CD would be great

If I use my druid/dh/warrior/mesmer/scrapper..kk condis are not faceroll danger, on professions like ele, you’re forced to fire several condi removal ( all of them ) to avoid being killed by the ticking confusion/bleeding/burning…if you move you get double torment dmg, bleeding/poison etc…what else left to do when you get condi bombed with every single condition in this game?

…yeah you wish the profession you’re using had something like Contemplation of purity

Tornupto.2304:

Soothsayer.9206:

one other stat that benefits condition builds and that is concentration – a duration increase

That’s not concentration. That stat is called expertise.

oops and thx will make the change.

Supreme.3164:

Archon.6480:

Condi is fine. Condi removal is not fine.

We need more/better options to remove condi and hard CC. HoT added condi-barf (classes can load you with 5-8 conditions instantly) but did not give enough mass condi removal to compensate.

100000000..infinity this ^

It’s not right that on some professions you insta die when getting condi bombed, there is no recovery from condi bombs outside direct cleansing.

Ok I can accept the fact that once caught with your pants down…you should die fine, but given how some condi bombs are too easily accessible ( looking at you skullgrinder-plague signet-boon conversion )….more professions should access to full condi removal..nothing stupidly OP, even something on a 60s CD would be great

If I use my druid/dh/warrior/mesmer/scrapper..kk condis are not faceroll danger, on professions like ele, you’re forced to fire several condi removal ( all of them ) to avoid being killed by the ticking confusion/bleeding/burning…if you move you get double torment dmg, bleeding/poison etc…what else left to do when you get condi bombed with every single condition in this game?

…yeah you wish the profession you’re using had something like Contemplation of purity

How many more and better options do we need? Consequently, should the corresponding equivalent to dps (heals) be increased too so as to remove the immediate and devastating effects of a critical hit? After all, dps and critical hits are altogether too accessible and do far to much damage at once, therefore should be mitigated by additional heals that entirely and always remove its devastating effects – but you can put such a heal on an increased cd for balance. There are way to many power builds present (revs and thieves are particularly pesky and don’t get me started on dh traps they kill my clones/phantasms way to quickly – a post for another time perhaps) and as a condi/shatter Memser I only have 1 heal. Hope a little tongue and cheek will help put some of this into perspective

Archon.6480:

Condi is fine. Condi removal is not fine.

We need more/better options to remove condi and hard CC. HoT added condi-barf (classes can load you with 5-8 conditions instantly) but did not give enough mass condi removal to compensate.

Absolutely not! The solution to power creep is not to introduce more. Just like the overabundance of boons that came with elite specs, they also came with an overabundance of condis (especially damaging condis). This needs to be scaled back. The amount of hard CC should be scaled back so you don’t need stability as much as well. The best way to balance at this point is to start scaling back what is excessive, not making counters to it even more excessive. All that would do is swing the pendulum in the opposite direction, making condis absolutely useless

on professions like ele, you’re forced to fire several condi removal ( all of them ) to avoid being killed by the ticking confusion/bleeding/burning…if you move you get double torment dmg, bleeding/poison etc…what else left to do when you get condi bombed with every single condition in this game?

…yeah you wish the profession you’re using had something like Contemplation of purity

Taking this quotation shows the knowledge of most players of this forum. Actually ele is the anti condi profession with diamondskin, shouts+soldier rune and regen removing condis (which u have plenty), attuning to water removing one condition, overloading water removing i think four conditions on top of a three condition remove on earth four + invuln from earth 5 and a lot of healing. Not to mention this is also for allies. If every class has a lot of clear condi becomes useless and with it the professions which have no other viable build. On top of that every profession has kind of a role and needs to be helped, supported or whatever by other professions. It is still a 5v5 mode which relies on teams and communication= teamplay.

Patrick.2987:

on professions like ele, you’re forced to fire several condi removal ( all of them ) to avoid being killed by the ticking confusion/bleeding/burning…if you move you get double torment dmg, bleeding/poison etc…what else left to do when you get condi bombed with every single condition in this game?

…yeah you wish the profession you’re using had something like Contemplation of purity

Taking this quotation shows the knowledge of most players of this forum. Actually ele is the anti condi profession with diamondskin, shouts+soldier rune and regen removing condis (which u have plenty), attuning to water removing one condition, overloading water removing i think four conditions on top of a three condition remove on earth four + invuln from earth 5 and a lot of healing. Not to mention this is also for allies. If every class has a lot of clear condi becomes useless and with it the professions which have no other viable build. On top of that every profession has kind of a role and needs to be helped, supported or whatever by other professions. It is still a 5v5 mode which relies on teams and communication= teamplay.

This is what happens when people only play what meta battle tells them to and don’t actually know a thing about their class

What? It is ur role atm. If u say ur other builds are bad ur not alone with ele. Fresh air is as viable as heal necro or zerker druid. If you want to judge about condi cleanse, reflect or what else you have to consider the good and viable builds of course. I can say guardian wall too much reflect, buff projectiles aswell. It just does not make any sense.

Patrick.2987:

on professions like ele, you’re forced to fire several condi removal ( all of them ) to avoid being killed by the ticking confusion/bleeding/burning…if you move you get double torment dmg, bleeding/poison etc…what else left to do when you get condi bombed with every single condition in this game?

…yeah you wish the profession you’re using had something like Contemplation of purity

Taking this quotation shows the knowledge of most players of this forum. Actually ele is the anti condi profession with diamondskin, shouts+soldier rune and regen removing condis (which u have plenty), attuning to water removing one condition, overloading water removing i think four conditions on top of a three condition remove on earth four + invuln from earth 5 and a lot of healing. Not to mention this is also for allies. If every class has a lot of clear condi becomes useless and with it the professions which have no other viable build. On top of that every profession has kind of a role and needs to be helped, supported or whatever by other professions. It is still a 5v5 mode which relies on teams and communication= teamplay.

Before considering my knowledge of the class..

on professions like ele, you’re forced to fire several condi removal ( all of them ) to avoid being killed by the ticking

and you

Actually ele is the anti condi profession with diamondskin, shouts+soldier rune and regen removing condis (which u have plenty), attuning to water removing one condition, overloading water removing i think four conditions on top of a three condition remove on earth four + invuln from earth 5 and a lot of healing

If I play a guardian…I don’t need to run full condi clear spec to stand a chance against condi bombs, same if I play warrior, ranger, mesmer….condi bombs it’s the word
I was talking about condi bombs and not simple condi clear…..there is a huge freaking difference between the two but hey..thank very much for listing all the utilities ele must use to stay on top of condi bombs…..people on this forum jesus

Accordingly to people here, it’s ok to force eles to use condi clear runes+ full condi clear utilities line, all condi clear traits…just to survive to condi bursts.

My knowledge of the game goes way behind ele, it extends to all professions, I can look behind the bias screen, you should not be forced to dedicate 100% of your build to counter something in order to stay alive

I’d like to run a freaking paladin ele with arcane dunno…but I can’t and why is that?
I need water and shout and soldier runes to survive condi cancer past HoT; if you then ask for a freaking 60s CD utility that can clear all condis…people here will go ape kitten…for real..amazing

Soothsayer.9206:

Supreme.3164:

Archon.6480:

Condi is fine. Condi removal is not fine.

We need more/better options to remove condi and hard CC. HoT added condi-barf (classes can load you with 5-8 conditions instantly) but did not give enough mass condi removal to compensate.

100000000..infinity this ^

It’s not right that on some professions you insta die when getting condi bombed, there is no recovery from condi bombs outside direct cleansing.

Ok I can accept the fact that once caught with your pants down…you should die fine, but given how some condi bombs are too easily accessible ( looking at you skullgrinder-plague signet-boon conversion )….more professions should access to full condi removal..nothing stupidly OP, even something on a 60s CD would be great

If I use my druid/dh/warrior/mesmer/scrapper..kk condis are not faceroll danger, on professions like ele, you’re forced to fire several condi removal ( all of them ) to avoid being killed by the ticking confusion/bleeding/burning…if you move you get double torment dmg, bleeding/poison etc…what else left to do when you get condi bombed with every single condition in this game?

…yeah you wish the profession you’re using had something like Contemplation of purity

How many more and better options do we need? Consequently, should the corresponding equivalent to dps (heals) be increased too so as to remove the immediate and devastating effects of a critical hit? After all, dps and critical hits are altogether too accessible and do far to much damage at once, therefore should be mitigated by additional heals that entirely and always remove its devastating effects – but you can put such a heal on an increased cd for balance. There are way to many power builds present (revs and thieves are particularly pesky and don’t get me started on dh traps they kill my clones/phantasms way to quickly – a post for another time perhaps) and as a condi/shatter Memser I only have 1 heal. Hope a little tongue and cheek will help put some of this into perspective

What you forget is that there are stats such as toughness and vitality that counter power damage…condi doesn’t.

nicoxbad.9715:

Soothsayer.9206:

Supreme.3164:

Archon.6480:

Condi is fine. Condi removal is not fine.

We need more/better options to remove condi and hard CC. HoT added condi-barf (classes can load you with 5-8 conditions instantly) but did not give enough mass condi removal to compensate.

100000000..infinity this ^

It’s not right that on some professions you insta die when getting condi bombed, there is no recovery from condi bombs outside direct cleansing.

Ok I can accept the fact that once caught with your pants down…you should die fine, but given how some condi bombs are too easily accessible ( looking at you skullgrinder-plague signet-boon conversion )….more professions should access to full condi removal..nothing stupidly OP, even something on a 60s CD would be great

If I use my druid/dh/warrior/mesmer/scrapper..kk condis are not faceroll danger, on professions like ele, you’re forced to fire several condi removal ( all of them ) to avoid being killed by the ticking confusion/bleeding/burning…if you move you get double torment dmg, bleeding/poison etc…what else left to do when you get condi bombed with every single condition in this game?

…yeah you wish the profession you’re using had something like Contemplation of purity

How many more and better options do we need? Consequently, should the corresponding equivalent to dps (heals) be increased too so as to remove the immediate and devastating effects of a critical hit? After all, dps and critical hits are altogether too accessible and do far to much damage at once, therefore should be mitigated by additional heals that entirely and always remove its devastating effects – but you can put such a heal on an increased cd for balance. There are way to many power builds present (revs and thieves are particularly pesky and don’t get me started on dh traps they kill my clones/phantasms way to quickly – a post for another time perhaps) and as a condi/shatter Memser I only have 1 heal. Hope a little tongue and cheek will help put some of this into perspective

What you forget is that there are stats such as toughness and vitality that counter power damage…condi doesn’t.

Vitality helps vs condi damage. Power damage is instant so its needs to be mitigated/reduced, condi damage, as much as people HATE to admit it, still happens over time and it can be completely removed/made redundant by resistance.

Both damage types share a few ways of being mitigated but still have their own unique ways way of being mitigated.

Also skullgrinder would be FAR more manageable if ti applied its conditions in a different order. If you have no idea what i mean read up on conditions and their mechanics a bit.

Supreme.3164:

Patrick.2987:

on professions like ele, you’re forced to fire several condi removal ( all of them ) to avoid being killed by the ticking confusion/bleeding/burning…if you move you get double torment dmg, bleeding/poison etc…what else left to do when you get condi bombed with every single condition in this game?

…yeah you wish the profession you’re using had something like Contemplation of purity

Taking this quotation shows the knowledge of most players of this forum. Actually ele is the anti condi profession with diamondskin, shouts+soldier rune and regen removing condis (which u have plenty), attuning to water removing one condition, overloading water removing i think four conditions on top of a three condition remove on earth four + invuln from earth 5 and a lot of healing. Not to mention this is also for allies. If every class has a lot of clear condi becomes useless and with it the professions which have no other viable build. On top of that every profession has kind of a role and needs to be helped, supported or whatever by other professions. It is still a 5v5 mode which relies on teams and communication= teamplay.

Before considering my knowledge of the class..

on professions like ele, you’re forced to fire several condi removal ( all of them ) to avoid being killed by the ticking

and you

Actually ele is the anti condi profession with diamondskin, shouts+soldier rune and regen removing condis (which u have plenty), attuning to water removing one condition, overloading water removing i think four conditions on top of a three condition remove on earth four + invuln from earth 5 and a lot of healing

If I play a guardian…I don’t need to run full condi clear spec to stand a chance against condi bombs, same if I play warrior, ranger, mesmer….condi bombs it’s the word
I was talking about condi bombs and not simple condi clear…..there is a huge freaking difference between the two but hey..thank very much for listing all the utilities ele must use to stay on top of condi bombs…..people on this forum jesus

Accordingly to people here, it’s ok to force eles to use condi clear runes+ full condi clear utilities line, all condi clear traits…just to survive to condi bursts.

My knowledge of the game goes way behind ele, it extends to all professions, I can look behind the bias screen, you should not be forced to dedicate 100% of your build to counter something in order to stay alive

I’d like to run a freaking paladin ele with arcane dunno…but I can’t and why is that?
I need water and shout and soldier runes to survive condi cancer past HoT; if you then ask for a freaking 60s CD utility that can clear all condis…people here will go ape kitten…for real..amazing

These people don’t understand. I believe this has to do with how easy condi spam/bomb is which is attractive to players who would rather do less work and play passivley. This leads to the belief that they are better than they really are and that this is a l2p issue.
The fact is that people who run anti condi builds are running them not becuase they want to but becuase they have to. As a mesmer I am forced to take inspiration in order to somewhat survive in the current world of lazy Condi spamming. This is not fun but i am forced to do so

Sigmoid.7082:

nicoxbad.9715:

Soothsayer.9206:

Supreme.3164:

Archon.6480:

Condi is fine. Condi removal is not fine.

We need more/better options to remove condi and hard CC. HoT added condi-barf (classes can load you with 5-8 conditions instantly) but did not give enough mass condi removal to compensate.

100000000..infinity this ^

It’s not right that on some professions you insta die when getting condi bombed, there is no recovery from condi bombs outside direct cleansing.

Ok I can accept the fact that once caught with your pants down…you should die fine, but given how some condi bombs are too easily accessible ( looking at you skullgrinder-plague signet-boon conversion )….more professions should access to full condi removal..nothing stupidly OP, even something on a 60s CD would be great

If I use my druid/dh/warrior/mesmer/scrapper..kk condis are not faceroll danger, on professions like ele, you’re forced to fire several condi removal ( all of them ) to avoid being killed by the ticking confusion/bleeding/burning…if you move you get double torment dmg, bleeding/poison etc…what else left to do when you get condi bombed with every single condition in this game?

…yeah you wish the profession you’re using had something like Contemplation of purity

How many more and better options do we need? Consequently, should the corresponding equivalent to dps (heals) be increased too so as to remove the immediate and devastating effects of a critical hit? After all, dps and critical hits are altogether too accessible and do far to much damage at once, therefore should be mitigated by additional heals that entirely and always remove its devastating effects – but you can put such a heal on an increased cd for balance. There are way to many power builds present (revs and thieves are particularly pesky and don’t get me started on dh traps they kill my clones/phantasms way to quickly – a post for another time perhaps) and as a condi/shatter Memser I only have 1 heal. Hope a little tongue and cheek will help put some of this into perspective

What you forget is that there are stats such as toughness and vitality that counter power damage…condi doesn’t.

Vitality helps vs condi damage. Power damage is instant so its needs to be mitigated/reduced, condi damage, as much as people HATE to admit it, still happens over time and it can be completely removed/made redundant by resistance.

Both damage types share a few ways of being mitigated but still have their own unique ways way of being mitigated.

Also skullgrinder would be FAR more manageable if ti applied its conditions in a different order. If you have no idea what i mean read up on conditions and their mechanics a bit.

Vitality does not mitigate Condi as if you get away from your condi spammin opponent you will die without condi cleanse wich is the only counter to condi. More health wil not matter because chances are if you get away you will still die. Especially with condi that damage you for moving and using skills.

I’d like to run a freaking paladin ele with arcane dunno…but I can’t and why is that?

Cause ele is worse than scrapper in that role.

U are a support profession deal with it or reroll.

nicoxbad.9715:

Sigmoid.7082:

nicoxbad.9715:

Soothsayer.9206:

Supreme.3164:

Archon.6480:

Condi is fine. Condi removal is not fine.

We need more/better options to remove condi and hard CC. HoT added condi-barf (classes can load you with 5-8 conditions instantly) but did not give enough mass condi removal to compensate.

100000000..infinity this ^

It’s not right that on some professions you insta die when getting condi bombed, there is no recovery from condi bombs outside direct cleansing.

Ok I can accept the fact that once caught with your pants down…you should die fine, but given how some condi bombs are too easily accessible ( looking at you skullgrinder-plague signet-boon conversion )….more professions should access to full condi removal..nothing stupidly OP, even something on a 60s CD would be great

If I use my druid/dh/warrior/mesmer/scrapper..kk condis are not faceroll danger, on professions like ele, you’re forced to fire several condi removal ( all of them ) to avoid being killed by the ticking confusion/bleeding/burning…if you move you get double torment dmg, bleeding/poison etc…what else left to do when you get condi bombed with every single condition in this game?

…yeah you wish the profession you’re using had something like Contemplation of purity

How many more and better options do we need? Consequently, should the corresponding equivalent to dps (heals) be increased too so as to remove the immediate and devastating effects of a critical hit? After all, dps and critical hits are altogether too accessible and do far to much damage at once, therefore should be mitigated by additional heals that entirely and always remove its devastating effects – but you can put such a heal on an increased cd for balance. There are way to many power builds present (revs and thieves are particularly pesky and don’t get me started on dh traps they kill my clones/phantasms way to quickly – a post for another time perhaps) and as a condi/shatter Memser I only have 1 heal. Hope a little tongue and cheek will help put some of this into perspective

What you forget is that there are stats such as toughness and vitality that counter power damage…condi doesn’t.

Vitality helps vs condi damage. Power damage is instant so its needs to be mitigated/reduced, condi damage, as much as people HATE to admit it, still happens over time and it can be completely removed/made redundant by resistance.

Both damage types share a few ways of being mitigated but still have their own unique ways way of being mitigated.

Also skullgrinder would be FAR more manageable if ti applied its conditions in a different order. If you have no idea what i mean read up on conditions and their mechanics a bit.

Vitality does not mitigate Condi as if you get away from your condi spammin opponent you will die without condi cleanse wich is the only counter to condi. More health wil not matter because chances are if you get away you will still die. Especially with condi that damage you for moving and using skills.

Thats like saying more hp doesnt help with power damage as it doesnt let you take more hits before you go down. Vitality gives you more time to react/wait for cool downs. More health will matter, besides if you ate a burst from a power build you wouldnt have the luxury of deciding to use a cleanse/ resistance because you would already be dead.

There is no different to eating a load of power damage to the face and dying to eating a load of condition attacks and dying a some time later.

Patrick.2987:

I’d like to run a freaking paladin ele with arcane dunno…but I can’t and why is that?

Cause ele is worse than scrapper in that role.

U are a support profession deal with it or reroll.

Rerolled alright…still the ones crying on the forum are necros like you who can’t deal with facing profession strong vs condis, can’t deal with that?…you and all necros can reroll then

nicoxbad.9715:

These people don’t understand…. This leads to the belief that they are better than they really are and that this is a l2p issue.

10/10 for unintended irony.

I m actually quite fine with nec as u can see from my posts. Same goes for most of the other professions.

Sigmoid.7082:

nicoxbad.9715:

Sigmoid.7082:

nicoxbad.9715:

Soothsayer.9206:

Supreme.3164:

Archon.6480:

Condi is fine. Condi removal is not fine.

We need more/better options to remove condi and hard CC. HoT added condi-barf (classes can load you with 5-8 conditions instantly) but did not give enough mass condi removal to compensate.

100000000..infinity this ^

It’s not right that on some professions you insta die when getting condi bombed, there is no recovery from condi bombs outside direct cleansing.

Ok I can accept the fact that once caught with your pants down…you should die fine, but given how some condi bombs are too easily accessible ( looking at you skullgrinder-plague signet-boon conversion )….more professions should access to full condi removal..nothing stupidly OP, even something on a 60s CD would be great

If I use my druid/dh/warrior/mesmer/scrapper..kk condis are not faceroll danger, on professions like ele, you’re forced to fire several condi removal ( all of them ) to avoid being killed by the ticking confusion/bleeding/burning…if you move you get double torment dmg, bleeding/poison etc…what else left to do when you get condi bombed with every single condition in this game?

…yeah you wish the profession you’re using had something like Contemplation of purity

How many more and better options do we need? Consequently, should the corresponding equivalent to dps (heals) be increased too so as to remove the immediate and devastating effects of a critical hit? After all, dps and critical hits are altogether too accessible and do far to much damage at once, therefore should be mitigated by additional heals that entirely and always remove its devastating effects – but you can put such a heal on an increased cd for balance. There are way to many power builds present (revs and thieves are particularly pesky and don’t get me started on dh traps they kill my clones/phantasms way to quickly – a post for another time perhaps) and as a condi/shatter Memser I only have 1 heal. Hope a little tongue and cheek will help put some of this into perspective

What you forget is that there are stats such as toughness and vitality that counter power damage…condi doesn’t.

Vitality helps vs condi damage. Power damage is instant so its needs to be mitigated/reduced, condi damage, as much as people HATE to admit it, still happens over time and it can be completely removed/made redundant by resistance.

Both damage types share a few ways of being mitigated but still have their own unique ways way of being mitigated.

Also skullgrinder would be FAR more manageable if ti applied its conditions in a different order. If you have no idea what i mean read up on conditions and their mechanics a bit.

Vitality does not mitigate Condi as if you get away from your condi spammin opponent you will die without condi cleanse wich is the only counter to condi. More health wil not matter because chances are if you get away you will still die. Especially with condi that damage you for moving and using skills.

Thats like saying more hp doesnt help with power damage as it doesnt let you take more hits before you go down. Vitality gives you more time to react/wait for cool downs. More health will matter, besides if you ate a burst from a power build you wouldnt have the luxury of deciding to use a cleanse/ resistance because you would already be dead.

There is no different to eating a load of power damage to the face and dying to eating a load of condition attacks and dying a some time later.

Where your wrong is that if i have high health and get power bombed i can activate defences. However if i get condi bombed then only defence i against condi is Resitance which is scarcley available.
For example: As a mesmer if i get power bombed i can activate distortion which will make me invulnerable to power damage and incoming conditions however I cannot stop condi damage that is already on me. 10/10 i will die due to the short time frime i have to realize its condi and then apply an appropriate cleanse..keeping in mind that it will problably be multi condi on me making it near impossible.

nicoxbad.9715:

Where your wrong is that if i have high health and get power bombed i can activate defences. However if i get condi bombed then only defence i against condi is Resitance which is scarcley available.
For example: As a mesmer if i get power bombed i can activate distortion which will make me invulnerable to power damage and incoming conditions however I cannot stop condi damage that is already on me. 10/10 i will die due to the short time frime i have to realize its condi and then apply an appropriate cleanse..keeping in mind that it will problably be multi condi on me making it near impossible.

The example is bad, you already had the chance to mitigate the condi damage when the strike was incoming same with power damage. You have already been hit so why should something preventing strikes, distortion, work all of a sudden to prevent further damage. You have the next X seconds to actually do something about it as with power damage it is instant, you have been hit and it has been done.

Again you seen the bomb/spike coming yet did nothing to prevent it hitting you in the first place.

Also in some instances preventing condition damage from coming in means you take more overall condition damage because of how skills apply conditions and the order they are removed in. If I have 10 stacks of bleeding i want to get hit by a skill that applied bleeding before i remove anything etc.

The reason people dont like conditions is because they have to build around it as a defence. A LARGE majority of damage is power based in the game so naturally you build to defend against it without thinking about it at all but sometimes have to give up power defence/utility/traits to speck for condi and thus feel “forced”. I feel if the larger majority of damage was condition based everyone would build to defend against it and would moan about power damage..

“if it was conditions i would have time to cleans it or put up resistance but its instant and i cant do anything!” etc etc you can see the point..

Sigmoid.7082:

The reason people dont like conditions is because they have to build around it as a defence.

I like condition damage and also think it should be able to down an opponent in seconds. I just don’t like the way it is applied en masse with a higher frequency than it can be removed. Even when building to remove it.

It is much easier to apply than direct damage, so removal skills are a big part of balancing it. They increased the output but didn’t increase the removal/mitigation enough to compensate.

Archon.6480:

Sigmoid.7082:

The reason people dont like conditions is because they have to build around it as a defence.

It is much easier to apply than direct damage,

This is false. Condi applying abilities can be blocked and evaded just as power ones are.

Only 3 out of the 9 professions rely on condi damage for their meta pvp build. In my opinion, conditions are at a good spot right now. In all 3 game modes, condition damage seems equal to power. Pre-HoT, power was essentially the only way to play this game. I think the game is a lot more balanced now than it ever was before.

Conditions are so OP. All it is is spam that takes no skill. You don’t even need to HIT your target! LOL! What kind of balance is that, come on! Toughness doesn’t affect it, protection doesn’t affect it and LOL it needs just ONE stat to do as much damage as a berserker amulet. Blocking doesn’t help because every condi attack is unblockable… there’s no way to avoid it really and every class can just insta condi bomb you repeatedly no matter how many times you cleanse. I don’t get it… and hell, if you want to heal to sustain, poison is spammed everywhere by like every profession so you can’t even heal!

^ All sarcasm. ^ All baseless statements which were refuted time and time again. And again. And again….. annnnnnnnnd again. And again? Yes… again. What about now? Yes, now. And….now? Yup.. still baseless? How about now? Hmmm. Nope, still baseless. Nice try tho. Thanks.

Be careful. I’m pretty sure someone will take the first part of your post and treat it seriously.

Question is, are condis unbalanced?