Guild Wars 2

I don’t even use Dhummfire anymore, heres my build below……. BUT
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Is-my-Necromancer-the-cause-of-unbalance/first#post2496887

Anet nerfed terror 17% then fire 50% (atleast start out with a 25% nerf 1sec)
And again alot of people brought up the fact that 2 addition torment+burn conditions was the bigger problem over the extra burn dps since alot of classes have either cleans 2 or 3 conditions. Change Dhumm to torment like everyone else said because noone is using it now….

edit*
Also check out the 2nd post below for Anets arrow to the knee topic and whats really wrong compared to all these balances. Poor esports its been a year w/so many bugs
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Anet-s-Arrow-to-the-knee-Balance-or-fix-bugs/first#post2489280

PvE guys are using it. Also Dhumm + terror is still making good dmg.
Personally I am bit bored to play TerrorMancer, since it gets buffs and nerfs so often.

Pretty sure they said this was a temp fix till they could rework the trait. So relax and wait for the next patch to rage.

It’s much simpler (in terms of modifying the client and passing it through QA) to reduce the duration of an effect than it is to completely change the condition applied by a trait.

This is a temporary “hotfix” before the PAX tourney and Allie Murdock has said that the trait will be completely reworked following the tourney. Calm your panites OP ^__^

I just found it hysterical how they claim they’re not into whack-a-mole balancing and then proceed to nerf a grand master trait by 50% in a hotfix. This followed by several other nerfs to the class as a whole, including one to terror which was only made due to how strong the combination of it and the yet to be nerfed Dhuumfire was.

It defies all reason.

i don’t even see the problem, necro still dishes out enormous damage and is a lto more tanky than before.

still op as kitten, but i can see the point in bashing devs for their " we don’t want whack a mole" when it’s exactly what they’re doing.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Constructive-necromancer-thoughts/page/9

Allie Murdock.8152:

The fix that is coming is in consideration of the time that we had to complete it. We are planning to rework some things when we have more time, but felt this would be sufficient for now, considering the first Qualifying tournament is tomorrow.

I found it, the quote above from Allie in the other thread should be reassuring that this is not the end to Dhuumfire changes.

Krayiss.4926:

I don’t even use Dhummfire anymore, heres my build below……. BUT
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Is-my-Necromancer-the-cause-of-unbalance/first#post2496887

Anet nerfed terror 17% then fire 50% (atleast start out with a 25% nerf 1sec)
And again alot of people brought up the fact that 2 addition torment+burn conditions was the bigger problem over the extra burn dps since alot of classes have either cleans 2 or 3 conditions. Change Dhumm to torment like everyone else said because noone is using it now….

edit*
Also check out the 2nd post below for Anets arrow to the knee topic and whats really wrong compared to all these balances. Poor esports its been a year w/so many bugs
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Anet-s-Arrow-to-the-knee-Balance-or-fix-bugs/first#post2489280

I can bet you will see pretty much every single necro running dhuum in tomorrows qualifier tournament.

Tobbygnome.6793:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Constructive-necromancer-thoughts/page/9

Allie Murdock.8152:

The fix that is coming is in consideration of the time that we had to complete it. We are planning to rework some things when we have more time, but felt this would be sufficient for now, considering the first Qualifying tournament is tomorrow.

I found it, the quote above from Allie in the other thread should be reassuring that this is not the end to Dhuumfire changes.

a 50% nerf before a toruny is huge did you not all ready the OP, Terror was nerfed 17%, nerf. If they started with trying Dhumm down by 1 second that WOULD (STILL be crazy 25% nerf) BUT 50% any necro worth their salt isn’t using it lol

GUARANTEED NO NECROS IN THIS TORUNEY LOL or they aren’t running dhumm lol
I know its temporary btw w/o even reading Allie’s post, but if you don’t have time to rework something for a toruney don’t nerf it to the Netherlands as a “Temporary nerf”
I know its not as easy as removing the link coding work burn to torment and everything works fine but come on 25% nerf next time YOU DID IT WITH TERROR… rage outa

Ye i kno man :P i’m not arguing here, just following up on Errant’s post heh, don’t bite my head off plz.

The simple logic behind the nerf is completely kittened IMO. A grandmaster trait is considered too powerful on the Necromancer, but the exact same trait in the adept line on the Engineer is considered balanced? They do realize the Necromancers are going 30 points into this line for that trait, right? Gimme a break. I play both btw, and this is one of the most completely kittened nerfs I have ever seen. ANet devs have absolutely no idea what they are doing with this game atm.

Like I said in another thread, the July changes have been great. We now have less damage and survivability — exactly the things high-rated necromancers were asking for.

Nikkle.4013:

Pretty sure they said this was a temp fix till they could rework the trait. So relax and wait for the next patch to rage.

sadly no…this would be the exact right time to rage, so please, pretty please….with sugar on top. shut yer pie hole and allow him to rage.

we have been patiently waiting 10 months and this is the trash we got.

remember 4 months in and soul reaping wasn’t giving any life force pool stats? an entire stat line giving half it’s stats…

remember 9 months in and necro downed health was a fraction of every other class and still waiting for a fix?

Remember the massive first necro bug thread? neither do the devs…………….they never even looked at it.

galandor.1059:

The simple logic behind the nerf is completely kittened IMO. A grandmaster trait is considered too powerful on the Necromancer, but the exact same trait in the adept line on the Engineer is considered balanced? They do realize the Necromancers are going 30 points into this line for that trait, right? Gimme a break. I play both btw, and this is one of the most completely kittened nerfs I have ever seen. ANet devs have absolutely no idea what they are doing with this game atm.

Balance is not in a vacuum. You can’t compare two traits directly because their power is contextual based on other tools those classes have.

(Plus Incendiary Powder is probably overpowered, too).

Mrbig.8019:

i don’t even see the problem, necro still dishes out enormous damage and is a lto more tanky than before.

still op as kitten, but i can see the point in bashing devs for their " we don’t want whack a mole" when it’s exactly what they’re doing.

This is the only example of Whack-a-mole they’ve done so I wouldn’t give them too much crap for it.

It really won’t change that much. Your condition burst barely needs 2.6s anyway, so you can still nuke people with every condition and kill them with terror/fear. I have a feeling we will see a lot of loaded necro teams, even with this nerf. The access to every condition, spammably and quickly is still strong, and the burning will still be on the list that needs immediate clearing or near-instant death follows, and if it is cleared in time, it is still protecting your other damage conditions.

Dirame.8521:

Mrbig.8019:

i don’t even see the problem, necro still dishes out enormous damage and is a lto more tanky than before.

still op as kitten, but i can see the point in bashing devs for their " we don’t want whack a mole" when it’s exactly what they’re doing.

This is the only example of Whack-a-mole they’ve done so I wouldn’t give them too much crap for it.

Giving Necro a 60% uptime on Burning in the first place as well as a new DS#5+Terror in the same patch.

50% Nerf on Dancing Dagger, 33% Nerf on CnD, and 15% nerf on Cluster Bomb all in one patch.

Shattered Strength 1→3xMight/Shatter (24Stack Mesmers dealing 18k burst). Hotfixed back to 1.

Frenzy Nerfed by 50% (GG Warriors)

Mug no longer crits and Trick Shot no longer hits moving targets.

I won’t comment on the nerf itself if it’s good or if it’s bad, if it was needed or not, because at this point, that’s not the case.

I think this hot-fix happened because the PAX tournament is here, and the only dominant class in tpvp right now was Necro. Anet doesn’t want streams where teams consist of 2 or even 3 necros, so they did what they thought was best. To be honest I would have done the same on their place. And I repeat, this isn’t as much about Dhuumfire being OP or not, it’s just about the fact that Necro is the current FOTM, has been for some time now, and they don’t want too many Necros on PAX. This nerf doesn’t make Necros useless however, claiming that would be just another community fuelled exaggeration… The kind of exaggeration we can see a lot on forums of competitive gaming.

It usually takes a Necro 3 seconds to kill someone anyways so I can’t see this making too huge of a difference.

It still gets me every time… I’m sitting there tickling someone with my Larcenous Strikes, and then all of a sudden POOF the guy gets feared and just drops instantly. I turn around and see my allied Necro standing on a ledge 1200 distance away laughing to himself as he epidemics hitting the entire enemy team for half of their hp.

Dredlord.8076:

Nikkle.4013:

Pretty sure they said this was a temp fix till they could rework the trait. So relax and wait for the next patch to rage.

sadly no…this would be the exact right time to rage, so please, pretty please….with sugar on top. shut yer pie hole and allow him to rage.

we have been patiently waiting 10 months and this is the trash we got.

remember 4 months in and soul reaping wasn’t giving any life force pool stats? an entire stat line giving half it’s stats…

remember 9 months in and necro downed health was a fraction of every other class and still waiting for a fix?

Remember the massive first necro bug thread? neither do the devs…………….they never even looked at it.

+1

Only problem necros have atm is there staff marks ( 4 ground aoe’s on a single weapon set)

aoe conditions that can pretty mutch be spammed when traited.

i suggest to leave terror and dhumphire like it was
BUT remove staff all together. or at least rework it so it doesnt have more then 2 aoe’s.

MAX 2 aoe ‘s on 1 weapon set , thats what the main fix is.
Necro has staff that makes it stand out , but there are more weapon sets on other characters that should be looked at to so there are a max of 2 aoe’s on any weapon set .

since day 1, aoe’s have been to strong in a game where you need to capture and hold a point that has the same size as the aoe’s done……

so stop asking for nerfs that wont change anything seriously .. and look at how to balance out the aoe’s first.

@void lol staff
2 does 3k bleed 10 sec +200
3 20 cd does chill 1.5k poison +300
4 25 cd transfer condi does 800 dmg (broken & doesnt pull condi from allies)
5 40 cd does 1 seconds fear 100 dmg

You can dodge roll over them making them useless lol
You can interrupt the cast making them useless & go on full recharge (its broken)
You can cleanse making them useless
You can Block lol
You can not move cause it doesnt trigger (cant use on down players either)

5 things to help you

Thiefs #1 autoattack does 10k crits lol
spam #2

You can say that about any class.
Staff is fine thiefs are fine. you just gotta do the 5 things I said, dodge, interrupt, cleanse etc

Jumper.9482:

Dirame.8521:

Mrbig.8019:

i don’t even see the problem, necro still dishes out enormous damage and is a lto more tanky than before.

still op as kitten, but i can see the point in bashing devs for their " we don’t want whack a mole" when it’s exactly what they’re doing.

This is the only example of Whack-a-mole they’ve done so I wouldn’t give them too much crap for it.

Giving Necro a 60% uptime on Burning in the first place as well as a new DS#5+Terror in the same patch.

50% Nerf on Dancing Dagger, 33% Nerf on CnD, and 15% nerf on Cluster Bomb all in one patch.

Shattered Strength 1->3xMight/Shatter (24Stack Mesmers dealing 18k burst). Hotfixed back to 1.

Frenzy Nerfed by 50% (GG Warriors)

Mug no longer crits and Trick Shot no longer hits moving targets.

Whack-a-mole suggests that they buffed something then went on to nerf it back down again.

Dancing Dagger, I don’t remember that ever being buffed. Same with CnD, same with Cluster Bomb.

Shattered strength from what I remember, was a bug(?) but I can’t be sure about that

Frenzy, was never buffed it was only nerfed

Mug, was never buffed it was only nerfed. Same with Trick shot.

This Dhuumfire buff to nerf is the only clear example of whack-a-mole that I know of.

Krayiss.4926:

@void lol staff
2 does 3k bleed 10 sec +200
3 20 cd does chill 1.5k poison +300
4 25 cd transfer condi does 800 dmg (broken & doesnt pull condi from allies)
5 40 cd does 1 seconds fear 100 dmg

You can dodge roll over them making them useless lol
You can interrupt the cast making them useless & go on full recharge (its broken)
You can cleanse making them useless
You can Block lol
You can not move cause it doesnt trigger (cant use on down players either)

5 things to help you

Thiefs #1 autoattack does 10k crits lol
spam #2

You can say that about any class.
Staff is fine thiefs are fine. you just gotta do the 5 things I said, dodge, interrupt, cleanse etc

keep believing aoe’s are fine , and that 4 aoe’s on a weapon set is fine.

traited they have shorted cooldowns / unblockable,
Evade 1 and the mark behind that triggers ….. sure a thief build for evades can dodge alot of them ( i know ) , but what about those classes with only 2-3 dodges in a row ?

besides even if you dodge over a mark you got like 50% chance its still gone go off and apply the condi’s on ya cause the aoe fields are bigger then the distance you dodge.

but by all means nerf everything else first before realizing aoe’s are the majority of the balance problems.

i’m not saying necro is the only character that has to many aoe’s on a weapon set.
but that to many aoe’s on a single weapon set is always gone be a problem in this kind of conquer pvp setup.

Well ya traited makes anything better lol nobody uses the shorter cd tho don’t worry
and I don’t use unblockable GM either.
They are aoe triggers only 1 has poison field lasting like 1 second lol (as soon as you dodge it triggers and your ok doesn’t matter about the size.)
Umm you can use dodge and make all 4 fields on the ground useless and your dodge rolls recharge faster than marks do so your point is invalid and I gave you 4 other ways to avoid them.
Oh and who said nerf anything necros need a buff wink
Also staff is all we have lol axe and dagger mh suck so you want the necros only weapon nerfed because you can’t do one of the five ways along with all the other inv class mechanics you have to avoid it?

Krayiss.4926:

Well ya traited makes anything better lol nobody uses the shorter cd tho don’t worry
and I don’t use unblockable GM either.
They are aoe triggers only 1 has poison field lasting like 1 second lol (as soon as you dodge it triggers and your ok doesn’t matter about the size.)
Umm you can use dodge and make all 4 fields on the ground useless and your dodge rolls recharge faster than marks do so your point is invalid and I gave you 4 other ways to avoid them.
Oh and who said nerf anything necros need a buff wink
Also staff is all we have lol axe and dagger mh suck so you want the necros only weapon nerfed because you can’t do one of the five ways along with all the other inv class mechanics you have to avoid it?

Wel i can tell you that a necro placing a mark on you , doesnt give you any time to dodge / block / … it. its an instant aoe trigger.

axe and dagger dont suck , they just suck compared to what the staff can do
i can imagen no1 wants to use single target skills if they got access to a weapon with 4 ground aoe skills.

but let devs try and balance out necro with nerfs to traits, its not gone work.
aoe’s are the problem here .
So once they totaly break necro’s traits , another character with aoe spams will be next to nerf and so on …

already feels like ele’s with there aoe’s instant burst will be next

- engy’s grenades
- mesmer scatter
- ranger trappers
- thief SB autoattack and caltrops got nerfed ( thiefs aoe’s)
- newly necro’s
- next ele’s

seems to me those got complained about ( and it looks like they all had access to a lot of aoe’s )
but yeah aoe aint the problem… the traits are …

K again heres more info, its not instant. its 3/4 cast (again you not knowing about the class). Which if you interrupt puts on a full cd to be cleard thats (not a 3 sec recharge.)
dagger is melee it sucks
axe only LF is a channel and easily interrupter it sucks
and again the highest aoe dmg on staff is 3k over 10sec, which is cleanesable sooo..
so how does any of that aoe hit the same as single target? Thiefs auto attack 10k vs 3k

Krayiss.4926:

K again heres more info, its not instant. its 3/4 cast (again you not knowing about the class). Which if you interrupt puts on a full cd to be cleard thats (not a 3 sec recharge.)
dagger is melee it sucks
axe only LF is a channel and easily interrupter it sucks
and again the highest aoe dmg on staff is 3k over 10sec, which is cleanesable sooo..
so how does any of that aoe hit the same as single target? Thiefs auto attack 10k vs 3k

1.would like to see build ,where thief can 10 with auto-attack
2.Mark of blood has also low CD (with staff Master it is bit lower then 5 sec and also grands regen)
3.Dagger in not really effective if you run condis, but its good on power builds.

Lol it just shows us they know they made a bad buff to the necromancer. By adding and removing, they are practially admitting to the mistake of adding dhuumfire. They also give players the notion that their game is very unstable and that they can’t really expect to keep what they are playing. Necromancer even still will be nerfed gurantee.

emon.1863:

Krayiss.4926:

K again heres more info, its not instant. its 3/4 cast (again you not knowing about the class). Which if you interrupt puts on a full cd to be cleard thats (not a 3 sec recharge.)
dagger is melee it sucks
axe only LF is a channel and easily interrupter it sucks
and again the highest aoe dmg on staff is 3k over 10sec, which is cleanesable sooo..
so how does any of that aoe hit the same as single target? Thiefs auto attack 10k vs 3k

1.would like to see build ,where thief can 10 with auto-attack
2.Mark of blood has also low CD (with staff Master it is bit lower then 5 sec and also grands regen)
3.Dagger in not really effective if you run condis, but its good on power builds.

With no toughness theifs #1 backstab every 4 seconds hits me for about that much http://i.imgur.com/p3eCl.jpg 18.9k BS oh and 5k-6k heartseeker in between granted I have no trouble with them.

emon.1863:

Krayiss.4926:

K again heres more info, its not instant. its 3/4 cast (again you not knowing about the class). Which if you interrupt puts on a full cd to be cleard thats (not a 3 sec recharge.)
dagger is melee it sucks
axe only LF is a channel and easily interrupter it sucks
and again the highest aoe dmg on staff is 3k over 10sec, which is cleanesable sooo..
so how does any of that aoe hit the same as single target? Thiefs auto attack 10k vs 3k

1.would like to see build ,where thief can 10 with auto-attack
2.Mark of blood has also low CD (with staff Master it is bit lower then 5 sec and also grands regen)
3.Dagger in not really effective if you run condis, but its good on power builds.

this

and

4.How many interrupts do you think people have and on what cooldowns are those ?
5.Any way of telling if its mark 5 or mark 2 you casting ?
6.Total area you can cover with marks to deny enemy’s passage ( wont include any utility’s like wells ) ?

it just makes staff to good not to use. destroying the balance between weapon sets.

All i am saying is they shouldn’t nerf traits that fast , good chance its cause of a global issue why something became overpowered.
Aoe’s and ground denial need to be looked at.

Krayiss.4926:

emon.1863:

Krayiss.4926:

K again heres more info, its not instant. its 3/4 cast (again you not knowing about the class). Which if you interrupt puts on a full cd to be cleard thats (not a 3 sec recharge.)
dagger is melee it sucks
axe only LF is a channel and easily interrupter it sucks
and again the highest aoe dmg on staff is 3k over 10sec, which is cleanesable sooo..
so how does any of that aoe hit the same as single target? Thiefs auto attack 10k vs 3k

1.would like to see build ,where thief can 10 with auto-attack
2.Mark of blood has also low CD (with staff Master it is bit lower then 5 sec and also grands regen)
3.Dagger in not really effective if you run condis, but its good on power builds.

With no toughness theifs #1 backstab every 4 seconds hits me for about that much http://i.imgur.com/p3eCl.jpg 18.9k BS oh and 5k-6k heartseeker in between granted I have no trouble with them.

if and only if this would still be possible ( kinda doubt it ), yeah it needs a nerf , and again it might not be Backstab or heartseeker that are in need of a nerf.
But the way they accessed stealth to get the Backstab.

Jumper.9482:

Dirame.8521:

Mrbig.8019:

i don’t even see the problem, necro still dishes out enormous damage and is a lto more tanky than before.

still op as kitten, but i can see the point in bashing devs for their " we don’t want whack a mole" when it’s exactly what they’re doing.

This is the only example of Whack-a-mole they’ve done so I wouldn’t give them too much crap for it.

Giving Necro a 60% uptime on Burning in the first place as well as a new DS#5+Terror in the same patch.

50% Nerf on Dancing Dagger, 33% Nerf on CnD, and 15% nerf on Cluster Bomb all in one patch.

Shattered Strength 1->3xMight/Shatter (24Stack Mesmers dealing 18k burst). Hotfixed back to 1.

Frenzy Nerfed by 50% (GG Warriors)

Mug no longer crits and Trick Shot no longer hits moving targets.

You forgot Brawn from 30% more damage to 3% more damage. That was a 1000% nerf and people complaining about 50% lol.

Can’t say I didn’t see this coming. When there was commotion about Dhuumfire being OP, I said Terror and Burning together was too much damage. Looks like Arena and the community agreed. With the recent batch of tweaks, I feel like I actually have a fighting chance against mediocre Necros that were just unloading all of their abilities as fast as possible without thinking. I’m also extremely happy that I can block marks since not every Necro feels the need to take that trait now.

Yes Engis have the same trait, but they don’t have Terror or Torment. Torment is no joke. I’d like to see Engis get Torment one day to make them equal in terms of condition application.

Jumper.9482:

Dirame.8521:

Mrbig.8019:

i don’t even see the problem, necro still dishes out enormous damage and is a lto more tanky than before.

still op as kitten, but i can see the point in bashing devs for their " we don’t want whack a mole" when it’s exactly what they’re doing.

This is the only example of Whack-a-mole they’ve done so I wouldn’t give them too much crap for it.

Giving Necro a 60% uptime on Burning in the first place as well as a new DS#5+Terror in the same patch.

50% Nerf on Dancing Dagger, 33% Nerf on CnD, and 15% nerf on Cluster Bomb all in one patch.

Shattered Strength 1->3xMight/Shatter (24Stack Mesmers dealing 18k burst). Hotfixed back to 1.

Frenzy Nerfed by 50% (GG Warriors)

Mug no longer crits and Trick Shot no longer hits moving targets.

a) Thief went from energy and initiative to only initiative so skills had to be rebalanced (and imo they still are bullkitten, well for not having at least a 1~2 second internal cooldown before second cast).
b) Quickness made cc lock burst a hard meta, there were no conditions going around before the nerf (also bigger nerf to mesmers with TW), thats kinda a reason why you see people whine about engie and then necro pre patch rundown, being the dominant condi machines
c) Yep mug nerf was bad (and imo not needed for the damage part, just reducing its crit ratio/having a lower multiplier if it crit would have been fine) and mesmers also need quite a lot of minior bug fixes, but having minior trait investments for the power not even some elite skills gave is bonkers (as seen by dominance of eles, mesmers and thieves in lower skill matchups).

Void.4239:

emon.1863:

Krayiss.4926:

K again heres more info, its not instant. its 3/4 cast (again you not knowing about the class). Which if you interrupt puts on a full cd to be cleard thats (not a 3 sec recharge.)
dagger is melee it sucks
axe only LF is a channel and easily interrupter it sucks
and again the highest aoe dmg on staff is 3k over 10sec, which is cleanesable sooo..
so how does any of that aoe hit the same as single target? Thiefs auto attack 10k vs 3k

1.would like to see build ,where thief can 10 with auto-attack
2.Mark of blood has also low CD (with staff Master it is bit lower then 5 sec and also grands regen)
3.Dagger in not really effective if you run condis, but its good on power builds.

this

and

4.How many interrupts do you think people have and on what cooldowns are those ?
5.Any way of telling if its mark 5 or mark 2 you casting ?
6.Total area you can cover with marks to deny enemy’s passage ( wont include any utility’s like wells ) ?

it just makes staff to good not to use. destroying the balance between weapon sets.

All i am saying is they shouldn’t nerf traits that fast , good chance its cause of a global issue why something became overpowered.
Aoe’s and ground denial need to be looked at.

I dont think Staff needs a nerf! I think rest of Necro weapons needs a rework.
Staff is good, but its deffenetly not OP and mb it should have some small condi tuning on it.

Krayiss.4926:

emon.1863:

Krayiss.4926:

K again heres more info, its not instant. its 3/4 cast (again you not knowing about the class). Which if you interrupt puts on a full cd to be cleard thats (not a 3 sec recharge.)
dagger is melee it sucks
axe only LF is a channel and easily interrupter it sucks
and again the highest aoe dmg on staff is 3k over 10sec, which is cleanesable sooo..
so how does any of that aoe hit the same as single target? Thiefs auto attack 10k vs 3k

1.would like to see build ,where thief can 10 with auto-attack
2.Mark of blood has also low CD (with staff Master it is bit lower then 5 sec and also grands regen)
3.Dagger in not really effective if you run condis, but its good on power builds.

With no toughness theifs #1 backstab every 4 seconds hits me for about that much http://i.imgur.com/p3eCl.jpg 18.9k BS oh and 5k-6k heartseeker in between granted I have no trouble with them.

Cant imagen that, If you can post video of that or build how they manage to deal you 18k dmg. I have tested thief and it looks like its max 9k dmg.

emon.1863:

Krayiss.4926:

emon.1863:

Krayiss.4926:

K again heres more info, its not instant. its 3/4 cast (again you not knowing about the class). Which if you interrupt puts on a full cd to be cleard thats (not a 3 sec recharge.)
dagger is melee it sucks
axe only LF is a channel and easily interrupter it sucks
and again the highest aoe dmg on staff is 3k over 10sec, which is cleanesable sooo..
so how does any of that aoe hit the same as single target? Thiefs auto attack 10k vs 3k

1.would like to see build ,where thief can 10 with auto-attack
2.Mark of blood has also low CD (with staff Master it is bit lower then 5 sec and also grands regen)
3.Dagger in not really effective if you run condis, but its good on power builds.

With no toughness theifs #1 backstab every 4 seconds hits me for about that much http://i.imgur.com/p3eCl.jpg 18.9k BS oh and 5k-6k heartseeker in between granted I have no trouble with them.

Cant imagen that, If you can post video of that or build how they manage to deal you 18k dmg. I have tested thief and it looks like its max 9k dmg.

Ah yes I was mainly saying I have no toughness and get hit for 9-10k in Spvp followed up by 5k heartseekers, the pic is from awhile ago as a joke.

So it appears I was right, necros in todays PaX qualifier were running dhuum. Crying on the forums about a small nerf and saying how you got nothing in exchange is somewhat silly. The reason why it’s called a nerf is because it is too strong and needs to be brought down. It wouldn’t be logical to make them better at something else simply because you’re making something too strong not as strong.

Secondly death shroud right now is really nice and if anything the patch before actually buffed necros. Right you shouldn’t be running 10 for greater marks as the default marks are now a reasonable size. If you put 20 in the last trait line if anything you’re even stronger than you were pre patch before the dhuum fire nerf.

I run dhuum, because 30% condition duration makes fear last 100% longer with Nec runes, adding more ticks to terror.

Mrbig.8019:

i don’t even see the problem, necro still dishes out enormous damage and is a lto more tanky than before.

still op as kitten, but i can see the point in bashing devs for their " we don’t want whack a mole" when it’s exactly what they’re doing.

sry but as far as pve , we are NOT tanky , we are taking as much dmg now as we were before (ie the LF pool drains JUST AS FAST as previoulsly , the diff is now we have to spec spectral armor stuff to survive , build diversity is almost dead at this point if you want to function in pve)

Necros never needed burning in the first place, nor did Doom need to be buffed to 1.5s <600 range (never heard any high level Necro ask for either of these things), and while the big ticket changes like Dhuumfire get all the forum rage, it kind of makes ANet’s other quality-of-life changes to Necros slip under the radar, i.e. Staff auto-attack and Dark Pact speed.

IMO Dhuumfire needs to go, replace it with some Torment variant (perhaps make it proc on crit with no ICD like Barbed Precision to make hybrid Axe builds viable), and make Fear a status effect that isn’t modified by condition duration, and undo the Terror nerf.

Skyro.3108:

Necros never needed burning in the first place, nor did Doom need to be buffed to 1.5s <600 range (never heard any high level Necro ask for either of these things), and while the big ticket changes like Dhuumfire get all the forum rage, it kind of makes ANet’s other quality-of-life changes to Necros slip under the radar, i.e. Staff auto-attack and Dark Pact speed.

IMO Dhuumfire needs to go, replace it with some Torment variant (perhaps make it proc on crit with no ICD like Barbed Precision to make hybrid Axe builds viable), and make Fear a status effect that isn’t modified by condition duration, and undo the Terror nerf.

The fear to DS buff is fine. Runes and condi duration affecting it are not.

Fear should be a CC effect not a condition. Making it a condition makes it so ripe for abuse since there are so many things in the game bolstering condi effectiveness.

Power necros still need a lot of help in the sustained department.

@Zenith Power necros still need alot of help in the sustained department have you seen my build. Life blast is piercing for 3k crit 90% x2 vul +might. It comes with a 28 sec invulnerability. Link in OP
Fear is a dot and condi should synergy with it preventing u power and min necros going for it. Dmg might be high.
Terror should be maybe 20% more with 1 cond, 40% with 2