Guild Wars 2

Terrahero.9358:

Player: Nerf Thief, he bursted me down in seconds and i couldnt even see him cause of stealth.

Thief: Thats your fault, stack Toughness.

Player: Done, i still die in the blink of an eye.

Thief: no no, you need to stack Toughness AND Vitality. Or it wont work.

Player: Okay, got that. But i still die near instantly. Time for a nerf?

Thief: Never, Thief is fine. You should pick defensive skills.

Player: I am now using defensive skills, i still die really really fast.

Thief: Look, its your own fault for not playing a Bunker-build

Player: Hey thanks, im now playing full Bunker and i dont die in a flash anymore.

Thief: ZOMFG bunkerbuilds are ruining pvp! NERF!

hmm no

Player: Nerf Thief, he bursted me down in seconds and i couldnt even see him cause of stealth.

Thief: l2p and stop arguing at thieves when you only play 8v8. start play tournaments and stop complain.

Player: no way.

Thief: nerf mesmer plox

Player: op class ask for nerfs lol.

Ansatsu.2678:

As a Theif I counter this using LOLsmokescreen

Why cant you guys dodge roll? Steal has a range of 900, 1200 if its traited. Its a one trick pony…why you fall for such things? Why? Whyyyyy?

Because before you realize there’s a thief on you, he pressed his 3 buttons and the game is over. I have a thief main, and I hate thieves in pvp. I don’t pvp with him anymore, as it’s not fun. My second profession is elementalist, and I wish all people would try him for once before they say: thief (insert other op profession) is fine.
Really elementalist only has 1 semi-viable build, and that’s a support bunker spec. Run with your team though because you won’t do any damage, but survival is pretty good (untill it gets nerfed, then you can throw elementalist away). To be honest, I once went “glass cannon” , and I couldn’t get the hp bar of a guardian to move. I died in 2 hits because glass cannon with elementalist is toiletpaper peashooter.

im just gonna blanket address most of hte nonsense im seeing in here

1-thieves do not need a 15% damage nerf across the board, that is rediculous to even suggest and is the ploy of someone with too much bias and not enough brains to go about asking for thief nerfs realistically.

2-even getting 14 might stacks (i think thats the top before the backstab lands) isnt OP, Anet designed this game with boon stacking in mind, and other classes are capable of as much or more (boon stacking) tho when thats added onto assassins signet and such, it can become an issue

3-part of hte perception that thieves are not as squishy as they should be is due to the stealth bug. how stealth is SUPPOSED to work is you get it for 3-4 seconds (shadow refuge excluded), this duration does NOT break on the thief being damaged, however the thief is A)able to be hit by anything, this includes CC) and breaks stealth if they attack or skill that does damage. The thief then gets a debuff called (revealed) that lasts 3 seconds (that is a long time in pvp of this kind). it prevents the thief from being able to enter stealth again for its duration. due to the rendering issue combined with latency you tend to only see the thief for about 1 second (tho he is selectable beforehand, this is cuz of hte rendering/latency) before he can re-enter stealth. this provides a effective, tho not actual, extra bit of protection for the thief and limits the percieved time to retaliate. it needs fixing

4-not all thieves can spam everything back to back endlessly, i can, with full initiative, use shortbows teleport twice, then have to wait about 5 seconds before i can use it again. this uses all my initiative. yes i know, we are doing it more then another calss cuz they have Cd’s, thats the point of initiative.

5-not all thieves that spec to backstab use the rediculous glass cannon build that people are complaining about. i myself use a backstab build, you know how hard i crit a guardian or warrior typically? 3k-5k tops with group buffs is what ive seen. glass cannon? 6-8 maybe, and those 8ks it was better for me to autoattack them. imo no calss should be able to reliably (at least in coordinated tourney play) spec glass cannon, everyone should need at least some defensive skills. and if you spec glass cannon, you shoudl not whine about dying quickly, being 2 shot even is imo acceptable, but this is imo, and only matters if anet agrees with it.

6-i do question mug (deadly arts trait) as it really seems like “free” damage. not sure if i agree with it.

7-general information to people, if you do not have A) at least 1 stunbreaker,at least 1 strong defensive skill) C)at least one form of spell interrupt whether it be daze or stun or fear etc then imo your playing bad. ive faced good opponents, they will interrupt your heal, your CnD cast, they will stun/snare you while stealtehd and make room.

everysingle time is ee someone try to make the excuse that its a team fight and they cant be expected to see the thief coming cuz they are tunneling the bunker guardian to try and take the point i /facepalm. this is a team pvp game, part of team based pvp is awareness, yes preloading CnD into steal+backstab is bad, and needs fixed imo (at least the damage portion from the galss cannon build) but thats a 45 second CD (steal), its not up every fight.

learn to not tunnel

learn to use stunbreakers/interrupts/CC/defensive CD’s, i use them even on my thief! and i use them often

interrupting is such a huge thing im surprised people dont do it yet, interrupting someones heal or other important spell…so important.

Thieves are fine. If you’re in a PuG game you can run whatever u want and people run whatever they want, i.e. u can go glass cannon vs glass cannon, and thieves are best at that, you will most likely die instantly to a good one.

Tournaments are another matter. Running a glass cannon in tournaments is usually a bad idea. Why? Coz you’re putting all effort into 1 or 2 skills, losing nearly all defensive skills and you’re not supporting allies. Sure you’re supporting allies by doing damage, but any team that knows what they’re doing will have a lot of CC and you’ll just hit a brick wall before u even finish your combo. You have no utility skills, u have no survivability, you essentially give your team a -1. Any sane person will run a balanced/tanky/supportive build in tournaments since it’s not a 1v1, its a 5v5 and I rather buff my allies, heal them and CC stuff into oblivion rather than gamble, pop all my cooldowns and hope my combo goes thru all CC flying around. I can wish the best of luck to a thief who tries to get near my support guardian in tPvP.

High level play is balanced mostly, needs a few tweaks on account of swiftness, but it’s alright. People are just getting rapped by thieves that know how to play and who to burst(i.e. light armor squishies). Learn to play.

Running a class cannon is not fine in tPvP? What are you talking about? You can turn a 3v3 in 2 seconds into a 3v2 as a thief glass cannon. If you dont do amazing damage after that doesnt matter because you do more than the dead enemy you killed 2 seconds bevor. Glass cannon thieves are very usefull in tPvP.

Mayama.1854:

Running a class cannon is not fine in tPvP? What are you talking about? You can turn a 3v3 in 2 seconds into a 3v2 as a thief glass cannon. If you dont do amazing damage after that doesnt matter because you do more than the dead enemy you killed 2 seconds bevor. Glass cannon thieves are very usefull in tPvP.

its putting all your eggs in a basket, very quickly your gonna iether kill and be at a advantage or get killed and be at a disadvantage.

Week 1: They complained about Heartseeker – Got nerfed
Following Weeks: They complained about Pistol Whip and being unable to move (Basilisk Venom: Turned you to stone but can now be broken with stun breakers) – They both got nerfed

Now… They complain about backstab…… And they still complain about not being able to move…… And they still complain about heartseekers (Why arent these kittens using immobilize breakers? They just dont know how to play. Maybe they got immobilized by another class and just blame thief)

Yawn… L2P noobs……….

Funny how Thiefs try to deny their “OPness”

1) Thief Dmg is to strong! NO class makes more than 3k hits (crits)… Rouge Standard in a “NON MAX DPS BUILD” is 4-5k
2) Thiefs no Utility for the Group? Yeah tell this to my Mass Stealth!
3) What was that about “Stealth should not be all the time” … yeah

Ok, maybe I am a god, i don’t know, but I don’t think it’s legit that I just create a thief, pop in some traits … than go in tPvP and get the Silver Chest with Top-Player in 2/3 Games … me without even knowing all the skills … I just Stealth>and PoP-PoP 2,2,2,2,2 > Win!

Honestly that’s what I did first time with thief, now that I can play him “better” I never lost one 1v1 —> if you 5>1>2>5>1>2 … still good enough against also “beefier” builds

The whole concept that the game is balanced around tournaments is rather flawed. How many of the player base run around in tPvP ? 20% ? maybe 30%? I suppose that the rest of the players are also entitled to a rather balanced playing enviroment. Lately in sPvP all the bads rolled thieves because of how lame and easy is to burst down others. I have been playing ele, necro, engi and guardian and none of them (when specced as a glass cannon) can do as much damage as a thief. Since arenanet wanted to stay away from the whole concept of dps/healer/tank the idea that the thief is somehow supposed to do almost double the damage that most of the other classes do is flawed.
Regarding the L2P issue, it is easier said than done. The reaction time of the average player combined with the limited number of dodges one can do, the mobility and gap closers thieves have makes it rather hard to survive most of the encounters against an average thief player. I hope you guys had your fun, and I do not mean to disrespect any of the dedicated players out there that actually enjoy the thief class but you have to realize that the burst is a bit over the top.
The game is rather new and I do realize it takes a while for things to even out between classes, I just hope we get to a relative balance soon.

@Manji im sure almost every team u encounter are “top players” and u never lost to someone 1v1. Seems legit.

I think thieves need to be given more survivability and less damage.

one of our defining factors is our damage and mobility, this is according to anet, so until they re-evaluate that, outside of the specific glass cannon build no thieves are not “too strong”

in that regard guaridans are too strong! they can take too many hits and keep on going! nobody can take as many hits as a defensive guardian!

now if anet does change that, then im fine, but until then, thieves should keep there burst.

now if you want to talk about reducing burst in smaller amounts cuz you belive its too high, but keeping it high relative to other classes then sure…lets talk

As my post was deleted, I’ll repost it without the insult (now that I’m cooled down).

I’m an elementalist, with 21k hp, specced half toughness, geared full toughness. I have to specc this way or otherwise I die from getting hit by a pollen grain while I myself would be tickling rather than hitting. But in all seriousness, other professions still have it laughably easy to kill me, while I have no means of doing decent damage.
5 minutes ago, I experienced the same as the op. I just respawned and there was a thief waiting for me below. As I was preparing myself to play Petrushka by Stravinsky, the thief disappeared. Less than half a second later I was lying on the ground, needless to say I died right after because I have no means to defend myself as a downed elementalist. I couldn’t believe what happened so I opened the combat log: 6000 damage by steal, 15000 damage by backstab.

I appreciate all the work that’s been done into this game, but I can’t understand their mentality about profession balance. I wish they would explain themselves for doing certain things, just to show how they are thinking. At the moment it’s normal for people to flame and shout because we’re left in the dark.

Consider this analogy: we’re allowed to live in a country where the government claims all people to be equally treated. They do not communicate much with the people, but when they do, they say they’re trying their best to resolve problems. Some parts of community are dying of poverty, while others are having an easy wealthy life. The poor people complain, the wealthy proclaim they should work harder if they want the same wealth. It is completely possible the government is trying to help, and they show it by for example giving the wealthy more taxes. But by doing this they don’t solve the problem of narrowing the gap between wealthy and rich, as the underlying case is not resolved. At the same time the government also subject taxes to the poor, may it be less than the wealthy. This however strikes them hard as they already having it hard. This results in protest and flame from the poor, and defense from the wealthy. If the government explained the reasons behind the taxes, maybe the people would understand. However at the moment they do not.

That is the main problem, communication. Explain why nerfs happen, why the underlying problems are not solved. Admit if needed that it’s a temporary fix and it is being solved. It’s not shameful to admit mistakes. All I’m asking is communication.

@ Wolfe: You have extremly High DMG, awesome Mobility, Stealth (which is kinda enough to be “the class difining” skills, cause you know ….. Stealth Rezz/Finisher can win the game)….. I think if the dmg is toned down to lets say 75% it would be ok, i think!

what you and i think is good for spitballing but it comes down to anet, they said it was damage and mobility, take it up with them.

and LOL!?!! You just said it… " 3k-5k tops with group buffs is what ive seen. "
ARE YOU INSANE?! I do 3k-not even 4ks with FULL Power&Percision HAMMER Warrior on “non Plate”… so just GTFO with your “Thiefs R Fine” when you tell me you hit 6-8k!!!

so your complaining that when speccing full power and precision while using your control 2hander your not doing as much damage as a class that anet said is about damage?

First…its your hammer, its not your dps wepaon, its your control weapon, thieve dont really get those archetypes with there weapon choices either.

second…i wasnt aware all classes were supposed to do the same damage, according to you they are, or at least nobody should do more damage then your hammer warrior.

third…what does it require you to do that damage? hit a Cd? i have to go into stealth, and get behind the target in melee range, i dont have the steal>cnd>backstab cheese, when i go into stealth, you see me go into stealth, if you give me your back, you deserve to feel pain ingame.

not to mention some classes do there damage in different ways, some in large single hits, tohers in many consecutive fast attacks. it is not accurate to complain about how much damage a single ability does…especially backstab cuz of stealths unique mechanics.

To get into stealth i have to either lay down black powder, then leap with heartseeker to gain stealth, get to your back or

use my cast time heal or

shadow refuge

only 1 of those 3 is not a waist of a skill considering the heal and shadow refuges obvious utility outside of merely gaining me stealth.

so i get the backstab, your a hammer warrior, i might get 4-5k if im lucky depending on your defenses (you did say your full power/crit, no defense take it)…now im out of stealth and cannot reenter stealth for 3 seconds. however i can:

autoattack, and i will

use heartseeker, i wont, above 25% im better off autoattacking in terms of damage pressure

use a utility skill, i may depending on the situation

woot 3 seconds is up, now i have to take the time the animations require to black powder, heart seeker and maneuver behind you for a backstab again

essentially a backstab is a largely frontloaded 5 second duration, before i can do it again.

but yes, the thieves most offesensive mainhand weapon (dagger) when geared for power/crit shouldnt do more damage then a warriors control 2hander when geared for the same.

NOONE hits 6-8K Krits besides the Thief… and that IS a problem![/quote]

Being good in sPvP is not all about talk, it’s about learning how other classes work, how you can counter then and sharpening ur reaction time.

@Burrid I’m gonna explain to you how a thief works and a rather easy way to counter them. A GC thief will first steal you, thus most likely hitting u with one of the 2 charges on basilisk venom. Don’t stun break it. Next they will C&D, thus applying the 2nd charge, now stun break it and dodge roll. He will likely miss his backstab and still be in stealth. He has about 2-3 seconds more of stealth so he needs to land it it asap. Since you dodge rolled, you’re a bit far from him. Don’t stop moving ur char and flipping sides. Count to 1 from ur first dodge roll and dodge again, then run a bit away from the spot. If ur using a dagger in ur off-hand, use lightning attunement and hit “4” after the first dodge roll if u want. Also I’m having trouble believing ur half toughness specced if he BSd u for 15k.

For the record, I main a guardian, I have a thief, but I rarely use it. People cried about retaliation guardians a bit ago, they nerfed it. I’m still a ret guardian and ppl are still killing themselves trying to take me down and thieves don’t do more than 5-6k on a charged BS to me, so yea…People need to stop crying when they get bursted on a glass cannon and figure out their own builds.

Even on my necro that has 29-30K health and 2100+ toughness, thieves can still kill quickly.

Thieves are to powerful ! But then again they die if the wind blows to hard so its a fair balance. If you want to tone down backstab you going to have to give them much more survivability. The thief plays with a 3-4 sec window if he hasn’t killed you by then its because he’s dead .The big problem is that anyone one can play a thief do to the high hit points they get all you need to do is push DB 3 times or land one good back stab. Its makes a great newbie class for thats all there is to it but to play the thief right in high end pvp takes a true master with a high level of skill and timing that very few can pull off but a true thief.

@ Wolfe: Don’t missunderstand me, … I took Hammer as an Example for DMG per Skill!

Hammer might be not the “DPS” Tree, but it does have the hardest Hiting “Single” Moves, that means “biggest” Krit per Hit (hope i can make myself understandable)

So ok, even with Greatsword you cannot press 1 and Hit like 6-8 k Krits (EDIT here)! Not even with Axes (which is in fact the MOST Dps Weapon)

And you don’t need to tell me that how I should play my warrior, this was just an example of pure dps… Ofc I take “Def” Skills for War, but funny fact, as a “Glasscannon” Thief I don’t need “Def” Skills… I do have 2 Stealths, and the “Get over here!”-Skorpion Wire … Heck i don’t even use the Ultimate as often as it would be possible, because …. no need!

And don’t tell me that I as a Warrior need to Push 1 CD! …

Letz take the “OP” 100B Warrior Build, which is not Op – as experienced players will know -
I need to Bullcharge, Frenzy and 100B to get some Dmg done… and therefore I need 2/3 Utilities…

Anyways, even with Frenzy and Offhand Axe Whirl I don’t do the DMG that the Thief does when stealing the whirl from the warriors … just sayn, i destroyed 3 people with that kitt yesterday, …. —this i don’t know, why i could use it twice inbetween a few seconds --

Honest: I don’t even care if they get nerfed or not… For my Warrior, Thief ain’t SUCH a problem at all… I can eat their Burst, and kill them afterwards with less than 10% HP,… but when playing as mage, engineer or nekro it’s hell on earth!

Yeah sure … nerf the overall thief dmg so that all the other builds that do already not deal even 1/4 of the D/D dmg will be more useless then they already are.

just /facepalm … you don’t have any clue about how to balance a profession. It’s not everything about “Okay we just gonna nerf the overall dmg”

Just because you are trolling with a Hammer Warrior that isn’t supposed to deal tons of dmg because it’s used to hardcore CC the ppl you’re now flaming the thief dmg.

You Sir are a BOSS! (again /facepalm)

Backstab Builds are imo to strong vs noobs … and since there are tons of noobs out there it needs to be nerfed … okay, but there are some other ppl like me out there that don’t even use D/D or ppl playing their Thief the “Balanced way” which isn’t meant to be a glass cannon

ANet should just buff some other builds a little so that they will become attractive to everyone and that it won’t just be D/D Backstab the people will use since it does the best dmg because as it stands right now the Thief already doesn’t have a great choice between weapons and to combine them compared to other professions not to mention that almost all other professions except D/D do lack in dmg and in the way how uselefull they are S/P was nice due to the almost balanced dmg and the nice Daze / Blind support you could add to your team … but the Haste bursters did also kill this build since the dmg now really lacks if you don’t play it as glass cannon.

Every game I play is the same.

You have a toon with huge burst and stealth that’s able to instant kill people, and the nubs who play it and think everyone else is just bad.

I repeat Backstab builds are strong against everyone, If you don’t think the ability to throw out 10k-16k damage instantly in this game is strong, at any level…You’re not understanding the basic concept of PvP.

Warriors 100b people to death, Yea I get that being only against noobs, or just people caught off guard.. Cause it’s easy to telegraph.

However claiming that Backstab is remotely similar is silly at best, Because you have an instant teleport to the target high damage….There is nothing else in this game that requires less skill then playing a Thief currently.

I would say no to nerfing thief overall damage, because pistol/pistol, shortbow and sword abilities are underwhelming but my thief is mainly pistol/pistol. It’s the specific abilities that are over the top like backstab and the 150% damage boost should be toned down a touch and the quickness (posted in another thread) should be 33% instead of 100%. At least pistol whip was addressed, that’s a step in the right direction by the devs.

But the game not renderring unstealthed players is another issue.

Xsorus.2507:

Every game I play is the same.

You have a toon with huge burst and stealth that’s able to instant kill people, and the nubs who play it and think everyone else is just bad.

I repeat Backstab builds are strong against everyone, If you don’t think the ability to throw out 10k-16k damage instantly in this game is strong, at any level…You’re not understanding the basic concept of PvP.

However claiming that Backstab is remotely similar is silly at best, Because you have an instant teleport to the target high damage….There is nothing else in this game that requires less skill then playing a Thief currently.

I do play my thief with S/D one of the harder to play thief builds out there … and how comes that I do almost NEVER lose to any Backstab thief? … right sir! the answer is as simple as it is! I do use the STUNBREAKERS … as soon as I see Basilisk Venom or a thief stealthing on the way to me I simply press 1 button and all his dmg goes into nothing since his dmg CDs are blown out … now he can choose between running or figthing me with my CDs still up.

and I do only have 1 Stunbreaker kitten … how great must it be to play a class with 3 stunbreakers then .

but Okay … Backstab is too strong I do fully agree with that and that’s why I don’t play D/D … It almost reached the level where I have to shame for playing D/D even if I would like it :/

Turbo Whale.1738:

[IMG]http://i49.tinypic.com/34hf215.jpg[/IMG]

I’m not saying thieves shouldn’t have great spike damage, but with absolutely crazy mobility, stealth, and 1 hit KOs, I think we have a problem.

No build should be able to instagib another this easily.

Not to mention backstab does not require initiative to use.

Glassy thieves are the best class to go glass with because they aren’t glass at all.

I trust Anet to properly balance this build. If they feel it is already balanced: then so be it. If you BSers think it is already balanced then you have nothing to fear in terms of nerfs. I’m just voicing my opinion

Glass cannon thiefs are indeed glass… but they are invisible glass.

One cannot fight what he does not see….

No, not an overall DMG Nerf, that would be insane, and I don’t want Thief to never be played again!

I think they need to rework stealth, so you’re instantly out…
I think also they need to make the “debuff” after stealth longer (like 5sek)…

Manji.3801:

@ Wolfe: Don’t missunderstand me, … I took Hammer as an Example for DMG per Skill!

Hammer might be not the “DPS” Tree, but it does have the hardest Hiting “Single” Moves, that means “biggest” Krit per Hit (hope i can make myself understandable)

and i said in my post that comparing like that isnt effective let alone reflective of balance. you cant just compare your hardest hitting ability with another and go hey nerf that it does more then mine!

So ok, even with Greatsword you cannot press 1 and Hit like 6-8 k Krits (EDIT here)! Not even with Axes (which is in fact the MOST Dps Weapon)

once again your not getting what i typed up for you, im not talking about this

And you don’t need to tell me that how I should play my warrior, this was just an example of pure dps… Ofc I take “Def” Skills for War, but funny fact, as a “Glasscannon” Thief I don’t need “Def” Skills… I do have 2 Stealths, and the “Get over here!”-Skorpion Wire … Heck i don’t even use the Ultimate as often as it would be possible, because …. no need!

i wasnt telling you how, you just left too much open to have a real debate. and it wasnt a example of pure dps, it was a example of pure DPH which is a innacurate measure for balance in this situation. yes a glass cannon thief has something that other glass cannons dont, thats steatlh. however stealth is bugged and is therefore not a accurate measure of there actual survivability, lets wait for that to get fixed (im hoping soon)

And don’t tell me that I as a Warrior need to Push 1 CD! …

uhm…why do i feel like some people fail at reading comprehension, i wasnt telling you how to play, i simply said in order for you to do your damage with your hammer you just have to hit a button, there is no pre-requirement like using initiative/Cd to go into stealth, no positional requirement for hte damage, etc. you just hit a button.

Letz take the “OP” 100B Warrior Build, which is not Op – as experienced players will know -

pot, meet kettle, oh wait kettle is thieves so must be a mistake

I need to Bullcharge, Frenzy and 100B to get some Dmg done… and therefore I need 2/3 Utilities…

sounds like pistol whip thieves, oh wait…they got nerfed, again, pot meet kettle

Anyways, even with Frenzy and Offhand Axe Whirl I don’t do the DMG that the Thief does when stealing the whirl from the warriors … just sayn, i destroyed 3 people with that kitt yesterday, …. —this i don’t know, why i could use it twice inbetween a few seconds --

anet said they are gonna nerf the whirlwind axe thieves steal from warriors, so this is entirely pointless to bring up

Honest: I don’t even care if they get nerfed or not… For my Warrior, Thief ain’t SUCH a problem at all… I can eat their Burst, and kill them afterwards with less than 10% HP,… but when playing as mage, engineer or nekro it’s hell on earth!

i can see elemental and necro having trouble, but a properly played engineer shouldnt.

besides ive said a million times on this forum already, that specific backstab build needs nerfed, the the nerf needs to be on things like assassins signet, and some specific traits, not on backstab itself, that will just hurt all the playres who arent cheesing the game.

on a side note, i honestly dont like mug, as its “free” damage as in, you cant avoid it really.

Manji.3801:

One cannot fight what he does not see….

No, not an overall DMG Nerf, that would be insane, and I don’t want Thief to never be played again!

I think they need to rework stealth, so you’re instantly out…
I think also they need to make the “debuff” after stealth longer (like 5sek)…

5 seconds is too long, i could see 3.5-4 (it lasts 3 seconds atm, it just doesnt feel like it cuz of the rendering issue.)

stealth doesnt need a re-work, it needs a fix, right now its bugged so we are not instantly rendered out of stealth, we need to be.

Wolfe.3097:

besides ive said a million times on this forum already, that specific backstab build needs nerfed, the the nerf needs to be on things like assassins signet, and some specific traits, not on backstab itself, that will just hurt all the playres who arent cheesing the game.

on a side note, i honestly dont like mug, as its “free” damage as in, you cant avoid it really.

I agree that this specific build (which uses the signet + might stacks + 100% crit from stealth + such) should be toned down a bit. One hit kills aren’t fun. You should still have the option, as a sneaky and fully glass thief, to put a serious hurt on someone in a hurry… but it should be sporting and leave the opponent with a chance at fighting back even at the huge disadvantage losing half your health entails.

Keep in mind though… even this nasty build can’t outright kill everyone. Hopefully ANet is careful not to make it unplayable.

In my opinion, the best solution is to look at the combination of traits that causes this one attack (when well set up, which really isn’t as difficult as some of you are making it sound) to be absurd, and find an elegant way of nerfing their synergy. Something that doesn’t neuter the thief, but stops nearly instant kills from a distance, and while stealthed.

I think the solution would be to give back stab an 0.5 or 1 second casting time. If someone stays immobile, not using his stun br. or does not do something (blind, dodge etc..) for 1 second after have seen that the thief goes to stealth and hits him with CnD or steal, then he deserves to go down.

Kanenas.4906:

I think the solution would be to give back stab an 0.5 or 1 second casting time. If someone stays immobile, not using his stun br. or does not do something (blind, dodge etc..) for 1 second after have seen that the thief goes to stealth and hits him with CnD or steal, then he deserves to go down.

if we give it a cast time i want the positional requirement removed

The solution is to fix c&d to steal combo that makes all the damage happen instantly and completely negates and entire trait (steal stealths you). If this design was intentional that trait would not exist imo.

I cant understand or how to survive against Thief, ANet try to nerf it, but doesn’t work…

http://imageshack.us/a/img823/6254/gw040v.jpg (Damage)
http://imageshack.us/a/img411/7370/gw041kp.jpg (My Stats)

Really Toughness do something? or is a useless stat?

Dabu.1258:

I cant understand or how to survive against Thief, ANet try to nerf it, but doesn’t work…

http://imageshack.us/a/img823/6254/gw040v.jpg (Damage)
http://imageshack.us/a/img411/7370/gw041kp.jpg (My Stats)

Really Toughness do something? or is a useless stat?

Toughness does help, but sometimes not enough, someone I know had about 900 toughness and said he took 16K damage from a hit, if he had 1600 toughness, he’d probably take 6-7K instead of 16K.

I think that 150% damage boost plus extra critical damage mods got you that 12K CnD.

Teknobug.3782:

Dabu.1258:

I cant understand or how to survive against Thief, ANet try to nerf it, but doesn’t work…

http://imageshack.us/a/img823/6254/gw040v.jpg (Damage)
http://imageshack.us/a/img411/7370/gw041kp.jpg (My Stats)

Really Toughness do something? or is a useless stat?

Toughness does help, but sometimes not enough, someone I know had about 900 toughness and said he took 16K damage from a hit, if he had 1600 toughness, he’d probably take 6-7K instead of 16K.

I think that 150% damage boost plus extra critical damage mods got you that 12K CnD.

And the stacks of might from popping signets.

Sky.9347:

Teknobug.3782:

Dabu.1258:

I cant understand or how to survive against Thief, ANet try to nerf it, but doesn’t work…

http://imageshack.us/a/img823/6254/gw040v.jpg (Damage)
http://imageshack.us/a/img411/7370/gw041kp.jpg (My Stats)

Really Toughness do something? or is a useless stat?

Toughness does help, but sometimes not enough, someone I know had about 900 toughness and said he took 16K damage from a hit, if he had 1600 toughness, he’d probably take 6-7K instead of 16K.

I think that 150% damage boost plus extra critical damage mods got you that 12K CnD.

And the stacks of might from popping signets.

is might stacking itself an issue tho? i mean, many classes can stack as much or more stacks of might. the game is designed with boon stacking, are thieves meant not to be able to do that as well? asking seriously here

i don’t understad nothing…
+1700 is not enough ?

Wolfe.3097:

Sky.9347:

Teknobug.3782:

Dabu.1258:

I cant understand or how to survive against Thief, ANet try to nerf it, but doesn’t work…

http://imageshack.us/a/img823/6254/gw040v.jpg (Damage)
http://imageshack.us/a/img411/7370/gw041kp.jpg (My Stats)

Really Toughness do something? or is a useless stat?

Toughness does help, but sometimes not enough, someone I know had about 900 toughness and said he took 16K damage from a hit, if he had 1600 toughness, he’d probably take 6-7K instead of 16K.

I think that 150% damage boost plus extra critical damage mods got you that 12K CnD.

And the stacks of might from popping signets.

is might stacking itself an issue tho? i mean, many classes can stack as much or more stacks of might. the game is designed with boon stacking, are thieves meant not to be able to do that as well? asking seriously here

I think might stacking in addition to the numerous other modifiers is a problem.

Personally, I don’t want to see the thief lose the ability to backstab for nasty amounts of health. I like the Assassin Signet, and backstab, and the reliance on stealth for defense. In this specific case – I think the 5-15 stacks of might could be the primary issue.

Honestly though, changing any one part of this build should bring it back down to a reasonable burst without changing the style. My impression is that the best way to do this would be through the might on signet trait – but I do not have any data to back that up.

I took a break for about a month, thinking that by the time I come back they will have made some effort to balance PvP, especially thieves.

First game I join, was fighting a decent 1v1 vs a guardian, then bam – instantly downed, with no one but guardian around me. Thief appears and I get stomped. Backstab about 10k in 1 hit.

I alt-F4’d immediately. Think I’ll give it a few more months.

Sky.9347:

Wolfe.3097:

Sky.9347:

Teknobug.3782:

Dabu.1258:

I cant understand or how to survive against Thief, ANet try to nerf it, but doesn’t work…

http://imageshack.us/a/img823/6254/gw040v.jpg (Damage)
http://imageshack.us/a/img411/7370/gw041kp.jpg (My Stats)

Really Toughness do something? or is a useless stat?

Toughness does help, but sometimes not enough, someone I know had about 900 toughness and said he took 16K damage from a hit, if he had 1600 toughness, he’d probably take 6-7K instead of 16K.

I think that 150% damage boost plus extra critical damage mods got you that 12K CnD.

And the stacks of might from popping signets.

is might stacking itself an issue tho? i mean, many classes can stack as much or more stacks of might. the game is designed with boon stacking, are thieves meant not to be able to do that as well? asking seriously here

I think might stacking in addition to the numerous other modifiers is a problem.

Personally, I don’t want to see the thief lose the ability to backstab for nasty amounts of health. I like the Assassin Signet, and backstab, and the reliance on stealth for defense. In this specific case – I think the 5-15 stacks of might could be the primary issue.

Honestly though, changing any one part of this build should bring it back down to a reasonable burst without changing the style. My impression is that the best way to do this would be through the might on signet trait – but I do not have any data to back that up.

yet other classes can get as much as 25 stacks of might. thats why im wondering if us being able to stack might is really an issue.

i do think assassins signet could be an issue tho.

either way im sure anet will just nerf the base damage of backstab

Slayer.1392:

I took a break for about a month, thinking that by the time I come back they will have made some effort to balance PvP, especially thieves.

First game I join, was fighting a decent 1v1 vs a guardian, then bam – instantly downed, with no one but guardian around me. Thief appears and I get stomped. Backstab about 10k in 1 hit.

I alt-F4’d immediately. Think I’ll give it a few more months.

You can be killed and stomped by Thief and you cant see him….
WTF?! Stomp/Resurrection in stealth….. great balance…..

No your wrong and ill tell you why, a game that wants to focus on competitive pvp with an e-Sports MMO’s need to stay away from every thing the thief is right now.

for the record let me just say i as a Guardian will DESTROY thief’s i will kill 2 at the same time very, very, easy.

yet i still think from an unbiased view point and only one that wants this game to be better as a whole.. i think thifes damage " Across the board need to be dropped 10% to 20% depending on the ability and then the ability for them to take hits be brought up about 10% to 20% as it stand i see thief insta gibb people like Mesmer is 1.8 sec ….

then latter a thief attacks me and i gibb him in 1.8 sec that just don’t make for a fun formula for strategic high lvl tournament play a 10/20 to 10/20 drop would still give the thief very powerful damage and at the same time allow the fight to stage out in what will still be a quick fight but a more strategic fight!

Now i also think there are a few other thing from other class also that need to be fixed
in all there are 3 Major things that once changed will be pretty good off to start some ranked competitive pvp!

P.S. a 10 /20% damage drop would still give them the best burst in the game because of the way initiative works! its so front heavy if that’s were you want to dump it..

so how much toughness does it take to counter thief burst? I’ve tried pumping up my toughness to almost 3k on my Ele and the kitteners still crit me for 7k or better…

Wolfe.3097:

yet other classes can get as much as 25 stacks of might. thats why im wondering if us being able to stack might is really an issue.

i do think assassins signet could be an issue tho.

either way im sure anet will just nerf the base damage of backstab

I think nerfing base damage of backstab and heartseeker, a little, would solve the problem without touching “other builds” ….

@ Wolfe: I didn’t wanted to sound so “agressive”, was written fast, during work!
Just …, any class which is build around “DPS” should do about the same amout of dmg… and should also fall at about the same amount of incoming dmg

Seeing how you can also build “Def”, as well as other Builds such as “Support”, diversion of the classes should not be “Roles” but “Playstyles” (since classes are pretty different to play)…

So if you build your “Def” Build with thief, it should last as long as a def-build guardian,….

Else IF a class performs better, why not use that class …. I for one, already swiched to thief when playing tPvP with my mates … i was a dps Warrior before, but thiefs just perform better in tournaments …..

Our elementarist already thinks about switching to guardian, …

first, nerfing heartseeker? it recieved a 20% damage nerf and a threshold nerf, i dont even use it for damage anymore if a target is below 25% hp i can autoattack them down faster, especially in a gruop setting

second, nerfing backstab would in fact ruin non glass cannon dagger mainhand builds

as for the rest of your post, its called homoginization, only way your gonna get it is by making everyone the same. certain classes will ALWAYS be better at certain things, because there is no way to achieve perfect balance.

imo a 2hander should do more damage thena onehand and shield, but a hammer, with all that control, shouldnt do as much damage as a others.

Hm, Heartseeker had a nerf? Anyways, ok, that maybe not …

I don’t know about that backstab, … I play a “non-glass cannon” Double Dagger Build, and I don’t rely so much on that skill…

If someone would play condition daggers, 3 is the skill to go, which remains unnerfed,…

If someone would play -let’s just say- a “bunker” thief (:D) than he cannot expect to kill anything, anyway…

“imo a 2hander should do more damage thena onehand and shield, but a hammer, with all that control, shouldnt do as much damage as a others.”

yes, i agree… completly … just, that a double axe glasscannon warr should do about the same burst / dps as a double dagger thief ….

“as for the rest of your post, its called homoginization, only way your gonna get it is by making everyone the same.”

this to some point is in the game anyway, every one can (theoretically) do anything, sure to a certain degree, ….

Dabu.1258:

I cant understand or how to survive against Thief, ANet try to nerf it, but doesn’t work…

http://imageshack.us/a/img823/6254/gw040v.jpg (Damage)
http://imageshack.us/a/img411/7370/gw041kp.jpg (My Stats)

Really Toughness do something? or is a useless stat?

Dancing Daggers bounce of nearby allies and hit you again. In your case you are an engineer and probably had turrets up and the thief threw a dancing dagger at you. It bounced of you hit your turret and hit you again.

13263/5 = 2653 so if you were to spread out a little more you would have most likely taken 5305 which is still a lot but not something that would kill you and the thief would run out of initiative.

As a full glass cannon thief you do a little over 3k damage with dancing dagger on 1 hit on base armor of 900. So you toughness brought damage down by about 700-800 damage. So your toughness cut about 4000 damage from 5 hits. Is toughness worth it you decide.

double axe glass cannon does its damage thru very many hits in succession not one large hit. so again, comparing DPH is a innacurate model.

but further we cannot use the glass cannon backstab spec people are using as a benchmark regardless as its unbalanced and people know it.

ive also played condition double dagger, i dont like it, too one dimensional, i enjoy Dagger mainhand for its high single target damage and pistol offhand for group harrassment.

Hmm so I made my thief a backstab damage spec.
It occurs to me I can’t even get half of the damage these renowned thiefs seem to put out. I have everything in power, precision, damage, critical damage. 15 stacks of might before backstabbing, behind target, and still only 6k damage.
Now I don’t want this build as my main is an elementalist, but how are you getting that high numbers :/

So the combo if you’re not familiar with it (and the one in the screen shot) is:
1) Apply Poison (immobilize or Basilisk)
2) Start Cloak-and-Dagger (has a 1-sec cast time)
3) Mid-animation Steal
3) While stealthed, use Assasins Signet and Backstab
5) Profit
The fix is simple, make Steal stop the Cloak-and-Dagger cast. This would make getting a massive backstab off 10x harder. Also if you run little to no toughness, this will 1 shot you.

@Burrid You need to hit assassin’s signet after you use cloak and dagger so it will go something like this Steal>Cloak and Dagger>Assassins Signet>Backstab

Hey, here you have another Thief Norris

http://imageshack.us/a/img341/1854/gw042p.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img233/9721/gw043f.jpg

Are you fking kidding me ANet? If you want to destroy the game, press the fking red button and explode it.