Guild Wars 2

EDITED IN TO CLARIFY THE SUBJECT:

• Brawn affects Burst Skill Damage, the warrior profession mechanic attached to adrenaline. Not the concept of Burst Damage which is exemplified by say, 100b.
• Only Killshot and Eviscerate do high damage. The rest of the Burst Skills do medium to terrible direct damage.
• I, as the OP, do not actually believe this stat should be increasing Damage, should it ever be fixed. I’d much rather it be anything else.

WILL EDIT IN MORE STUFF AS PEOPLE CONTINUE TO POST FLAGRANTLY UNEDUCATED OPINIONS

“Increase Burst Skill Damage by 0.1% per point in the Discipline traitline.”

Not that I can blame the community guests for not knowing about this because literally nobody important plays warrior; But this is absolutely ridiculous and I feel a key reason why warriors are terrible in pvp. We essentially have a stat that is entirely useless built into our critical damage line.

I can’t be the only one who realizes how ridiculous this hasn’t been looked at since beta, when it was nerfed into the ground from 1%>0.1% because of the 1shot eviscerate build.

Also in case you, the reader of this thread, is really thick and think this stat is actually useful, investing 30 points into discipline would give you a grand total of…. +3% burst skill damage.

Let’s draw a parallel to every other class’s specific stat at max trait investment:

Elementalist: -30% cooldowns on Attunementswap
Engineer: -30% cooldowns on Toolbelt skills
Guardian: -30% cooldowns on Virtues
Mesmer: -30% cooldowns on Shatters
Thief: -30% cooldown on Steal
Necromancer: Increase Death Shroud healthpool by 30%
Ranger: Improve all pet attributes by 300, total of 1200

Aaaaaaand
Warrior: +3% damage increase on your burst skills, most of which don’t do much direct damage.

I would also like to kindly request this thread doesn’t get moved to the warrior forums, because that just kills any chance whatsoever it’s getting read by the people actually in charge of fixing kitten like this.

EDIT:
Popular suggested changes to Brawn:

• Increase Adrenaline buildup rate up to 30%
• Decrease Burst Skill cooldown up to 30%
• Increase Burst Skill damage up to 15%, or revert it back to 30% with a nerf to the base damage of Killshot and Eviscerate (Personally I am not a fan of this because a large majority of the other burst skills don’t do much direct damage at all)

zaku pls….

stawp

madatom.5218:

zaku pls….

stawp

No

Warrior is absolutely terrible in pvp and anything that helps it along should be seriously considered.

oh buddy! Engineers will gladly trade you 30% recharge for your 12k esviserates or 18k+ killshots ANYDAY!

google.3709:

oh buddy! Engineers will gladly trade you 30% recharge for your 12k esviserates or 18k+ killshots ANYDAY!

>Probably a WvW screenshot
>The image is literally named baddies_2.png

Terrible players running full GC getting killed by a full GC Rifle warrior, not even dodging killshot despite being thieves and rangers

Also I hope you realize that if they were spec’d 30 points into discipline Brawn added ~500 damage to that 18k killshot

Personally I don’t think Brawn should be “Burst Skill Damage” at all.

Since when you can see enemies names in wvw in combat log?

you don’t get the point do you ? the 30% damage increase you’re hoping for have been on the burst skill all along, warriors numbers are extremely high compared to any and most classes, and specially when compared to what it says on the tool tip.

and also, if i remember correctly the 18k was on a ranger, 12 and 11k on warrior/guardian.

I guess only one of us have played warrior, and will give you a clue, its not you , Flurry is a condition based burst skill. Skull Crack not bash.. is a control based skill and Arcing Slice idk, but does GS really needs more damage ?

google.3709:

I guess only one of us have played warrior, and will give you a clue, its not you , Flurry is a condition based burst skill. Skull Crack not bash.. is a control based skill and Arcing Slice idk, but does GS really needs more damage ?

…I would strongly recommend you learn to actually read.

lol you’re funny, i guess CoF P1 farm will do that to your brain, if its not pure damage is worthless.. but you really need to think about balance. if they give back the 1% they will have to take damage away from most skills forcing people into glassier builds, but then again. i wouldn’t mind the warrior being easier to kill js ..

anyways i’m out! not in the mood to deal with a little cry baby QQ haha

google.3709:

lol you’re funny, i guess CoF P1 farm will do that to your brain, if its not pure damage is worthless.. but you really need to think about balance. if they give back the 1% they will have to take damage away from most skills forcing people into glassier builds, but then again. i wouldn’t mind the warrior being easier to kill js ..

anyways i’m out! not in the mood to deal with a little cry baby QQ haha

>completely misread people’s posts
>calls other people stupid
>think’s im talking about pve in the s/tpvp forums
>doesn’t bother to go back and reread after being suggested to do so

Is being this stupid allowed by the laws of the universe?? Holy kitten.

How would u improve Brawn ?
What stats should offer ?

Like google siad , if u want Brawn to increase burst bonus by 30% , they have to nerf evething and <<force>> any warrior to spent 30 points in that tree if they want burst

As I have already stated, I don’t think that “Burst Skill Damage Increase” should be brawn’s effect seeing as a majority of the Burst Skills don’t do much damage.
Normally I would have suggested that they remove “Quick Bursts” (-20% on Burst skill cooldown) and make Brawn reduce burst skill cooldown by 1% per point. However they’re baking both Quick Bursts and Adrenal Reserves into a combined trait, reducing burst skill cooldowns could still work I suppose, being able to use your burst skill every 5s isn’t much of an issue because your adrenaline doesn’t build quickly enough to keep up unless you spec for it, which is a different tree entirely.

He’s not wrong, and this has been discussed to death in the warrior forums. Secondly, why would you have to nerf everyhing? If you were to buff brawn back to 30% the only skills that would need nerfing would be killshot/eviscerate.

Secondly, any replacement for brawn would be welcome. We’re the only class with a trait line with only one stat (3% increase on two skills might as well not be there). It doesn’t have to be damage, it could be -30% cast time on burst skills, +30% adrenaline gain, anything at all that makes a difference. I don’t think warriors would care what it was replaced with provided it did something other than give killshot an extra 300 damage.

Change it to reduce condition duration either 15-30% and it’s all good. What warrior needs is defensive buffs. Not offensive ones.

Resouled.5614:

Change it to reduce condition duration either 15-30% and it’s all good. What warrior needs is defensive buffs. Not offensive ones.

All the class-specific stats affect the special class gimmick though. It’d be really off for warrior’s to be that different.

Should be adrenaline gain instead of damage.

google.3709:

oh buddy! Engineers will gladly trade you 30% recharge for your 12k esviserates or 18k+ killshots ANYDAY!

The engineer-specific attribute is bad, but not quite as useless as a 3% damage increase. And really, the only reason the engineer trait is bad is that most of our decent toolbelt skills are un-useful. 30% CD reduction is actually quite nice in a power-nade build because of barrage, but who wants to be able to throw elixirs 30% faster? No one.

Warriors, on the other hand, gain literally nothing from their specific attribute. If a warrior used eviscerate every time it was up, having the 3% damage boost might count for a total increase in damage over time of maybe .4%. In other words, nothing.

NevirSayDie.6235:

And really, the only reason the engineer trait is bad is that most of our decent toolbelt skills are un-useful. 30% CD reduction is actually quite nice in a power-nade build because of barrage, but who wants to be able to throw elixirs 30% faster? No one.

HGH Engineer loves being able to throw elixirs 30% faster. Really having 4 skills cooldown faster is amazing.

why is it that the engies who post outside of the engie forum always profess to know more about their alt classes than their main classes which they barely know how to play?

google, give it a rest. you and waka both make poor ambassadors.

google.3709:

lol you’re funny, i guess CoF P1 farm will do that to your brain, if its not pure damage is worthless.. but you really need to think about balance. if they give back the 1% they will have to take damage away from most skills forcing people into glassier builds, but then again. i wouldn’t mind the warrior being easier to kill js ..

anyways i’m out! not in the mood to deal with a little cry baby QQ haha

Pure damage is not worthless outside cof1. It’s the best attribute in all of PvE, and in WvW zergs your little pvt/valk builds will do nothing.

spvp has the luxury of a critdmg bonus crit cap, so you see really strong bunkers whereas in the other game formats because GC’s will hit MUCH harder they are more widely used.

Foods also add another dimension. 40% extra condi duration is huge, as is 40% extra endurance regen on classes with no access to vigor boons.

Jzaku.9765:

NevirSayDie.6235:

And really, the only reason the engineer trait is bad is that most of our decent toolbelt skills are un-useful. 30% CD reduction is actually quite nice in a power-nade build because of barrage, but who wants to be able to throw elixirs 30% faster? No one.

HGH Engineer loves being able to throw elixirs 30% faster. Really having 4 skills cooldown faster is amazing.

Engineers spend 60 trait points in traitlines that aren’t tools (30% faster toolbelt). 30 points go into getting HgH, and another 30 go into not doing terrible damage. See, engineers are balanced around those GM traits. Its like this:

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Like google siad , if u want Brawn to increase burst bonus by 30% , they have to nerf evething and <<force>> any warrior to spent 30 points in that tree if they want burst

But for any kit/weapon. Engis have had everything nerfed already (at least once)

I think your damage will be fine without +30%, maybe it should go somewhere else like killthehealersffs said.

Fix is simple. Change it to burst CD reduction instead of burst damage increase.

Most people use burst skills for utility not damage (unless its eviscerate or kill shot, neither of which is super popular weapon types).

Recently.1043:

Fix is simple. Change it to burst CD reduction instead of burst damage increase.

Most people use burst skills for utility not damage (unless its eviscerate or kill shot, neither of which is super popular weapon types).

Since when is rifle not popular? Warriors I’ve seen run either GS/A+S, or GS/Rifle. Both of which hit for absurd numbers.

Warriors don’t get brought not because they lack damage — they don’t get brought because their absurd damage numbers require more setup to land than that of eles, mesmers, and especially thieves.

It’s very easy to shut down a warrior and wear him down. The same cannot be said of the mesmer and ele, and to a lesser extent thief (thief is just much better of than warrior since their burst is more guaranteed, it’s higher and in single strikes instead of channels, and they don’t lack mobility).

JohnDied.3476:

I think your damage will be fine without +30%, maybe it should go somewhere else like killthehealersffs said.

Nobody is saying that warrior DAMAGE is not fine. Also:

Jzaku.9765:

Personally I don’t think Brawn should be “Burst Skill Damage” at all.

Jzaku.9765:

As I have already stated, I don’t think that “Burst Skill Damage Increase” should be brawn’s effect seeing as a majority of the Burst Skills don’t do much damage.
Normally I would have suggested that they remove “Quick Bursts” (-20% on Burst skill cooldown) and make Brawn reduce burst skill cooldown by 1% per point. However they’re baking both Quick Bursts and Adrenal Reserves into a combined trait, reducing burst skill cooldowns could still work I suppose, being able to use your burst skill every 5s isn’t much of an issue because your adrenaline doesn’t build quickly enough to keep up unless you spec for it, which is a different tree entirely.

It’s almost like what this person is saying is entirely true:

nakoda.4213:

why is it that the engies who post outside of the engie forum always profess to know more about their alt classes than their main classes which they barely know how to play?

google, give it a rest. you and waka both make poor ambassadors.

I would strongly suggest you read the thread before trying (and failing!) to be condescending.

Jzaku.9765:

google.3709:

lol you’re funny, i guess CoF P1 farm will do that to your brain, if its not pure damage is worthless.. but you really need to think about balance. if they give back the 1% they will have to take damage away from most skills forcing people into glassier builds, but then again. i wouldn’t mind the warrior being easier to kill js ..

anyways i’m out! not in the mood to deal with a little cry baby QQ haha

>completely misread people’s posts
>calls other people stupid
>think’s im talking about pve in the s/tpvp forums
>doesn’t bother to go back and reread after being suggested to do so

Is being this stupid allowed by the laws of the universe?? Holy kitten.

get off of 4chan, it’s bad for your health

It never was +30% dmg at any point – it was just a display bug which got fixed to the actually value of 3%.
Nevertheless, by far the most useless “skill line stat” there is.

google.3709:

oh buddy! Engineers will gladly trade you 30% recharge for your 12k esviserates or 18k+ killshots ANYDAY!

ohmygod i couldn’t dodge block blind or interrupt a skill that takes 5 seconds to charge up and it actually HURTS with max zerker! OP NERF!!!!

@Jzaku, I do agree that skill line stat is weak as heck. I agree with the change to CD reduction, 1% for each point.

The more I see engies on this forum, the more it seems like all they care about is their own class and every other class can delete itself for all they care.

tarcheg.4872:

It never was +30% dmg at any point – it was just a display bug which got fixed to the actually value of 3%.
Nevertheless, by far the most useless “skill line stat” there is.

I’m pretty sure it actually was 30% in the Beta Events, but it got kneejerk nerfed straight into the fiery depths of hell due to a one-hit kill combo of eviscerate + guaranteed crit on weaponswap + extra damage on weaponswap.

Everything about that build was nerfed, from brawn to evis base damage to removing one of the sigils that allowed that combo.

Raptured.9307:

google.3709:

oh buddy! Engineers will gladly trade you 30% recharge for your 12k esviserates or 18k+ killshots ANYDAY!

ohmygod i couldn’t dodge block blind or interrupt a skill that takes 5 seconds to charge up and it actually HURTS with max zerker! OP NERF!!!!

@Jzaku, I do agree that skill line stat is weak as heck. I agree with the change to CD reduction, 1% for each point.

The more I see engies on this forum, the more it seems like all they care about is their own class and every other class can delete itself for all they care.

i just want to state for the record that not all engies cry about milk spilling out of the falling sky during imaginary wolf attacks.

jeff foxworthy summed it up best when he said “most rednecks are intelligent hard working people, but inevitably, after a tornado rips through a residential area, the news forgets to interview the doctors and lawyers and emergency professionals, and instead puts the trailer park mom in the pink mumu on the screen.”

google’s mumu is just a bit too tight, so let’s not be too hard on the lil’ guy.

Is anyone actually going to pick up the 30 Disc. “boon hate” trait knowing that it may just average to 9% or 12% extra damage, after focusing on a crappy trait line giving .1% more burst damage (that no one ever uses anyways), when we already have stuff like:

1) +9% passive crit from Disc 10 (not using adrenal)

2) +12% passive DAMAGE from Arms 10 (not using adrenal). This alone is more consistent and more unconditional damage than requiring to have the enemy constantly have 4 boons up just to equal its damage.

3) Flat +10% GS damage from Arms 20, also two +damage traits for Axe you may spec in

4) The new defensive -33% snare trait will mean less Warriors will trait full glass-cannon, and the Quickness nerf will encourage this with less people going 30 Arms (for Last Stand), which is the Precision trait line. All of this results in much less effectiveness from Crit Damage, which is pretty much Discipline’s only saving grace.

google.3709:

lol you’re funny, i guess CoF P1 farm will do that to your brain, if its not pure damage is worthless.. but you really need to think about balance. if they give back the 1% they will have to take damage away from most skills forcing people into glassier builds, but then again. i wouldn’t mind the warrior being easier to kill js ..

anyways i’m out! not in the mood to deal with a little cry baby QQ haha

shut the kitten up seriously.

Jonwar.9205:

He’s not wrong, and this has been discussed to death in the warrior forums. Secondly, why would you have to nerf everyhing? If you were to buff brawn back to 30% the only skills that would need nerfing would be killshot/eviscerate.

Secondly, any replacement for brawn would be welcome. We’re the only class with a trait line with only one stat (3% increase on two skills might as well not be there). It doesn’t have to be damage, it could be -30% cast time on burst skills, +30% adrenaline gain, anything at all that makes a difference. I don’t think warriors would care what it was replaced with provided it did something other than give killshot an extra 300 damage.

cast time sounds great

NevirSayDie.6235:

google.3709:

oh buddy! Engineers will gladly trade you 30% recharge for your 12k esviserates or 18k+ killshots ANYDAY!

The engineer-specific attribute is bad, but not quite as useless as a 3% damage increase. And really, the only reason the engineer trait is bad is that most of our decent toolbelt skills are un-useful. 30% CD reduction is actually quite nice in a power-nade build because of barrage, but who wants to be able to throw elixirs 30% faster? No one.

Warriors, on the other hand, gain literally nothing from their specific attribute. If a warrior used eviscerate every time it was up, having the 3% damage boost might count for a total increase in damage over time of maybe .4%. In other words, nothing.

it’s more like 0.5%

Killthehealersffs.8940:

How would u improve Brawn ?
What stats should offer ?

Like google siad , if u want Brawn to increase burst bonus by 30% , they have to nerf evething and <<force>> any warrior to spent 30 points in that tree if they want burst

Here, to clarify for those who missed the point entirely like the quoted above, this is about the warrior burst SKILL, the profession’s unique ability(ie Thief Steal, Necro Deathstroud, Ele Attunements, Ranger pet management, etc.)

NOT a warriors ability to dish out rapid damage which is the “burst” the quoted, and possibly a few others, think this is about lol.

No one is arguing a warrior isn’t capable of dealing high amounts of damage. No one here is arguing for an across-the-board +30% damage buff to all warrior attacks. This is only about Brawn which increases the damage of ONE ability on each weapon, the “Burst Skill”, by a meager .1% per trait point with a max of 3% for 30 points. Therefore, they would not “have to nerf everything” if it were boosted to give 30% like it used to. If anything they would just tune specific burst skills which may benefit too much from it(Evis/killshot).

My opinion on this is that Brawn currently has a negligible bonus and should definitely be changed to something more substantial. I like the condition duration reduction idea, but I think the 30% condition duration reduction would be too much; I think that’s enough to nullify certain traits on other professions, causing more issues.

Condition duration reduction even works with the “theme” if thats a major concern with ANET. A brawny person by definition would strong and tough so it fits great thematically with some sort of passive defensive buff against conditions, if thats an issue they are having.

I just came back to clarify a few things. i would much rather see his a constructive discussion than a troll tread to lets start.

• Up to my last message I had no idea you were suggesting a different effect. it was not implied anywhere on the main post, and when i saw the 30 30 30, I thought you meant to bring it back to 30%+ on burst skills. it was a misunderstanding.

• While thinking that you were asking for the 30%dmg back (which you’re not), i was trying to point out that if they did bring it back, they would have to take out that 30% out the skill’s damage in order to prevent the 1 shot eviscerate, forcing players deep into that trait to get the same effect as now. or to conform with a weaken version of these skills, and as lots of warriors would agree, the burst mechanic is weak as it is. but that’s irrelevant now..

• And I’m sorry about @nakoda… he’s the type of person who will argue to death sky is pink just to get some attention… unless i missed a post where he actually said something related to the post.

• Moving on onto a constructive conversation. @Jzaku.9765, what would be your opinion if brawn increased adrenaline gain by 1%(30% max) ? it would syg well with traits that benefit from high adrenaline(specially the new one) as well as it would balance that feeling than you’re losing so much every time the burst skill is used.

Don’t worry guys adrenaline gain is so fubar who cares about the burst mechanic anyways.

why are you apologizing for me when I am fully aware of and versed in thebissues the OP brought up, even to the point that he quoted me when telling you to l2read?

you do not speak for me, I do.

apologize for your own ignorance or carry on as usual, I care not, but do not presume to have any sort of prestige over me, lil’engie.

LOL anyways… moving on!

Forgive the engineers here, they’re not used to being considered OP. None of the ones here are the type who rolled an engi three weeks ago because “HGH lewl.”

It’s true that the engineer subforum has developed a sarcastic sense of humor that is widely misinterpreted in other places. None of them seriously believe that warriors are in a good place balance-wise, or especially that brawn is even noticeable.

(It’s also true that the engineer forum has a few dedicated forum warriors who should not ever be taken seriously. We try to keep them under control, but they sometimes escape and post in other areas. Sorry in advance.)

This got ugly pretty quickly.

Anyhow it’s very disappointing Brawn is still somehow overlooked in sotg discussions. When I heard we were getting boon hate I figured it was through our brawn secondary stat, which would have made perfect sense with the scaling it has now (up to 3%).

I can’t say I’m surprised they missed another opportunity. Barring boon hate being a class mechanism, additional adrenaline gain would fit the class mechanic trait theme better and be more useful to most specs.

Anything beats out 3% damage at this point.

that would be an interesting twist, if Brawn added that 3% to the 3% the new trait gives you per boon.

so, no trait would yield 3% boon hate dmg per boon, and traited with yield 6% total.

that way, even warriors with only 10 points in disc would snag a much welcomed 1% dps boost per boon.

Disc traitline bonus can be made little more interesting then just “+1% adrenaline gain per point”. I suggest “your minimum adrenaline level increased by 1.11% per every point into Discipline line”, so if you invest 30 points, you will have 1 adrenaline bar permanently. Very nice synergy with adrenaline-based talents and class mechanic.

So… Basically you want a permanent 2 strikes of adrenaline so you can use your burst and not suffer any negative effects. At this point I don’t think it would be overpowered but I think warrior potential would suffer as a result.

+30% adrenaline gain on the other hand promotes active gameplay, it might be simple but it would be useful and nobody could cry imbalance. Cast time would also be cool as it’s an entirely PvP related buff (I mean for it also to increase the animation speed of skills like earthshaker and eviscerate).

Lastly, wtf engi’s, we were brothers in brokenness not so long ago :p

Burst skills are the F1 ability
—————————————————————————
——————————————————————————————————————————-

3% damage? Heck, you can get that from 10 points in tactics per boon.

It needs to be re-worked, personally 30% more damage wouldn’t be as bad as people think. You’d need to build as a glass cannon anyway for it to work, and you’d only be killing other glass cannons.

Compared to other classes that already have well over the burst warriors do with our burst skill.(+utility), its almost silly that people fear 30% damage on ONE skill(which is usually very easy to dodge).

Oh noes, killshot or eviscerate does 30% more damage!? rolls LOL NEVER MIND.

Going by ArenaNet’s trends, it is obvious that the change to Brawn from 30% down to 3% was a temporary solution to the warrior’s high damage during beta. They just haven’t gotten around to finding a more permanent solution.

That’s just how Anet deals with things. First implement the fundamentals, then later smooth out the edges. Just like the matchmaking system, leaderboards, and tournament system – the main idea is implemented first, and then over time it gets streamlined.

so we only have another 8 months to go? or sooner? or longer?

zone.1073:

Going by ArenaNet’s trends, it is obvious that the change to Brawn from 30% down to 3% was a temporary solution to the warrior’s high damage during beta. They just haven’t gotten around to finding a more permanent solution.

That’s just how Anet deals with things. First implement the fundamentals, then later smooth out the edges. Just like the matchmaking system, leaderboards, and tournament system – the main idea is implemented first, and then over time it gets streamlined.

“Temporary”

Obviously that word stretches a lot longer to you than it does to me.
———————————-

Its not “streamlined”, its forgotten.

zone.1073:

Going by ArenaNet’s trends, it is obvious that the change to Brawn from 30% down to 3% was a temporary solution to the warrior’s high damage during beta. They just haven’t gotten around to finding a more permanent solution.

That’s just how Anet deals with things. First implement the fundamentals, then later smooth out the edges. Just like the matchmaking system, leaderboards, and tournament system – the main idea is implemented first, and then over time it gets streamlined.

Putting a bandaid on an amputated limb is not a temporary solution.

zone.1073:

Going by ArenaNet’s trends, it is obvious that the change to Brawn from 30% down to 3% was a temporary solution to the warrior’s high damage during beta. They just haven’t gotten around to finding a more permanent solution.

That’s just how Anet deals with things. First implement the fundamentals, then later smooth out the edges. Just like the matchmaking system, leaderboards, and tournament system – the main idea is implemented first, and then over time it gets streamlined.

I hope you are aware that this issue didn’t suddenly pop up last patch or something. It’s been like this since beta. Approximate 9 months ago by now. With no word of even acknowledging the matter at all from Arenanet.

That sure sounds like “streamlining” and definitely seems “temporary”.