You Have To Actively React To Passives
Interesting idea. I wouldn’t say that it is always the case, but many builds do place the burden of the fight on the defender, and it doesn’t really create fun gameplay.
This quote will actively haunt our passively skilled devs.
(edited by DrTenma.7249)
Since when does any Thief run P/P? Just wondering, lol.
all is vain
I agree that a high percentage of the skill in GW2 is based around avoiding damage. Another way of saying that is everyone has access to at least two dodges, and if you mess those up, of course you should lose to someone who dodged well.
It’s also true that it’s generally not too hard to land damaging skills. Exceptions would be engineer, ele, and guardian. I think it’s all right that most professions don’t revolve around skillshots.
If they did, damage output would invariably go way down. The game already has a lot of active defense, so bunkers would receive huge nerfs and dps would receive huge buffs to compensate for less damage landing. And then the meta would be awful, because landing that one great skillshot would literally always win the fight for you.
Since when does any Thief run P/P? Just wondering, lol.
Lol, nice catch.
But hey, even that applies. Back in beta when all you saw were venom P/P unload spammers 100-0’ing people. Not that it wasn’t that hard to counter, but still faceroll. =p
I agree that a high percentage of the skill in GW2 is based around avoiding damage. Another way of saying that is everyone has access to at least two dodges, and if you mess those up, of course you should lose to someone who dodged well.
It’s also true that it’s generally not too hard to land damaging skills. Exceptions would be engineer, ele, and guardian. I think it’s all right that most professions don’t revolve around skillshots.
If they did, damage output would invariably go way down. The game already has a lot of active defense, so bunkers would receive huge nerfs and dps would receive huge buffs to compensate for less damage landing. And then the meta would be awful, because landing that one great skillshot would literally always win the fight for you.
I would personally like to see more risk/skill required for damage, and getting kills on people in general, with less focus on downed state (not eliminating it completely). Then nerfing/tuning support in a way that’s less selfish and more altruistic to kill bunkering and instead create true “support”, or atleast try to. For example, when shout warrior or staff ele got buffed to “buff support”, all it really does is buff “bunker” because why support others when you could just support yourself + tank it up and be unkillable.
In the end with TTK being slightly less ridiculous (and inconsistent, i.e. either you bunk or you glass cannon), and just requiring more skill/teamwork again in general. That would be my ideal game here.
“And then the meta would be awful, because landing that one great skillshot would literally always win the fight for you. "
This is arguable because it exists in League of Legends/DotA hehe.
(edited by Knote.2904)
Well, that was the problem with fighting a phantasm mesmer 1 on 1. Looking at some videos, you can see how the mesmer managed to put a big amount of pressure of the enemy and made him unable to counterpressure. The enemy had to chain his defensive abilities while the mesmer was just sitting back, healing the few damage received.
We are talking about months ago, but IMHO many remember them.
Now you see this with warriors: they can pressure you without fear of being pressured back. Also because Healing Signet doesn’t need them to stop and heal.
Probably if healing skill was changed to give different passive bonuses and a passive heal with the same hps it would be less problematic.
because he doesn’t know it himself
(edited by redslion.9675)
Well, that was the problem with fighting a phantasm mesmer 1 on 1. Looking at some videos, you can see how the mesmer managed to put a big amount of pressure of the enemy and made him unable to counterpressure. The enemy had to chain his defensive abilities while the mesmer was just sitting back, healing the few damage received.
We are talking about months ago, but IMHO many remember them.
Mesmer was probably my most played class in beta up til now, and I did a TON of cheese with them lol, I remember that clearly. Phantasm cheese was always hilarious.
Hell, there WAS no dmg to heal, just run away or sit in stealth and spam tanky phantasms on cooldown lol.
Although shatter builds aren’t as bad as that, even they can be guilty. You just pop up next to someone and INSTANTLY spawn and shatter clones and do massive aoe burst in the blink of an eye.
Trying to avoid that versus just stealthing up to someone and hitting mirror/wrack really quick is still pretty skewed with the skill ratio.
(edited by Knote.2904)
This is arguable because it exists in League of Legends/DotA hehe.
It’s just reasoning. Right now, damage is carefully balanced against sustain. If damage got harder to land, it would need a buff (or sustain would need a nerf).
So higher damage but fewer hits…in other words, a couple of skillshots would define most fights.
This is arguable because it exists in League of Legends/DotA hehe.
It’s just reasoning. Right now, damage is carefully balanced against sustain. If damage got harder to land, it would need a buff (or sustain would need a nerf).
So higher damage but fewer hits…in other words, a couple of skillshots would define most fights.
Well damage in general is too high, it wouldn’t need to be buffed, just add more risk to attacks or make them require more skill to pull off.
This is arguable because it exists in League of Legends/DotA hehe.
It’s just reasoning. Right now, damage is carefully balanced against sustain. If damage got harder to land, it would need a buff (or sustain would need a nerf).
So higher damage but fewer hits…in other words, a couple of skillshots would define most fights.
Well damage in general is too high, it wouldn’t need to be buffed, just add more risk to attacks or make them require more skill to pull off.
My point is that that would effectively lower damage. Which would be a bad idea, because tankiness/regen in general is already extremely powerful.
This is arguable because it exists in League of Legends/DotA hehe.
It’s just reasoning. Right now, damage is carefully balanced against sustain. If damage got harder to land, it would need a buff (or sustain would need a nerf).
So higher damage but fewer hits…in other words, a couple of skillshots would define most fights.
Well damage in general is too high, it wouldn’t need to be buffed, just add more risk to attacks or make them require more skill to pull off.
My point is that that would effectively lower damage. Which would be a bad idea, because tankiness/regen in general is already extremely powerful.
They’re both a problem.
This is arguable because it exists in League of Legends/DotA hehe.
It’s just reasoning. Right now, damage is carefully balanced against sustain. If damage got harder to land, it would need a buff (or sustain would need a nerf).
So higher damage but fewer hits…in other words, a couple of skillshots would define most fights.
Well damage in general is too high, it wouldn’t need to be buffed, just add more risk to attacks or make them require more skill to pull off.
My point is that that would effectively lower damage. Which would be a bad idea, because tankiness/regen in general is already extremely powerful.
They’re both a problem.
Okay, fair enough. Maybe dps is too strong and tankiness is too strong at the same time.
We could equalize things—for example, remove both crit damage and healing power as stats. That would be essentially what you’re looking for, I think. Less damage, less healing. You can still have bunkers and glass cannons, but the difference between them is smaller.
But I can’t really agree with that option either. I think the diversity is pretty cool actually, and I definitely don’t think a pre-alpha level change should be implemented over a year after release.
This is arguable because it exists in League of Legends/DotA hehe.
It’s just reasoning. Right now, damage is carefully balanced against sustain. If damage got harder to land, it would need a buff (or sustain would need a nerf).
So higher damage but fewer hits…in other words, a couple of skillshots would define most fights.
Well damage in general is too high, it wouldn’t need to be buffed, just add more risk to attacks or make them require more skill to pull off.
My point is that that would effectively lower damage. Which would be a bad idea, because tankiness/regen in general is already extremely powerful.
They’re both a problem.
Okay, fair enough. Maybe dps is too strong and tankiness is too strong at the same time.
We could equalize things—for example, remove both crit damage and healing power as stats. That would be essentially what you’re looking for, I think. Less damage, less healing. You can still have bunkers and glass cannons, but the difference between them is smaller.
But I can’t really agree with that option either. I think the diversity is pretty cool actually, and I definitely don’t think a pre-alpha level change should be implemented over a year after release.
Well, it’s like there’s either super high dmg, or super high tank builds, with, I guess warriors in between having a large portion of both. I think the extremes should just be tapered off.
I had an idea I posted in the general forums about making everyone DPS, and I was going to post it here, though it is probably too much of a rework too happen.
The idea is that everyone will have a fixed amount of dmg from gear/stats. Essentially everyone would either be something like high Condi/Prec, and high Power/Prec/CritD, so like Zerker/Rabid, but maybe 75% of that. So essentially everyone would be capped to like like Knight’s stats dmg levels.
Then, with everyone being “dps” you get to choose your secondary stats, which could be Healing, Tough, Vit, etc, or even Boon/Cond duration. It would work better if there was like, support or control stats that actually MODIFIED your skills like in GW1. But you would basically be choosing your secondary role besides “damage”, to specialize in with gear, which could also split up tanky stats and healing power so you can’t be beefy as well as “sustainy”.
TBH though, it would probably be easier to to just do 2 things : remove any PURE dmg stat sets like zerker gear, then nerf “support” to be a bit nerfed on yourself, and buffed for others like Healing Breath. That would eliminate the super glass cannon and bunkers (somewhat).
I’m the LAST person who would see variety and build options be REDUCED, trust me. But I don’t think the build variety should really be focused on the really limited stats available for gear. I think it should be 90% based on traits/skills/runes/sigils, that’s where the interesting build choices lie, I would prefer having way more options in this area than we do now actually, on top of the stat adjustments.
You could still focus on a high end dps build just through stats/runes TBH, so it’s not like everyone would be homogenized to being the same exact offense/defense levels.
Look at it this way, there’s a reason MMO’s with pvp have seperate gear for pve and pvp, pvp gear is usually always loaded with extra defenses while giving up some damage in order to make the TTK more reasonable, (this has nothing to do with the massive HP direction WoW went with recently). But with people in full zerker gear, it’s like people walking into pvp with full PVE gear and doing insane dmg while being insanely squishy, which then is only really used on certain classes that don’t rely on stats to stay alive, notice how Thief/Mesmer get away with glass cannon so easily?
Just like when Rogues in WoW would dominate when the TTK was low during low resil periods.
(edited by Knote.2904)