You can't please all of the people ...
I have to agree with the OP; S1 had its shortfalls but this season is a mess.
S1 encouraged mmr tanking. Bad!
S2 rewards winning!
S1 encouraged mmr tanking. Bad!
S2 rewards winning!
Not sure if S2 rewards winning, or just having better MMR to get better team. At this point, I have no idea what the truth is really.
S1 encouraged mmr tanking. Bad!
S2 rewards winning!
Not sure if S2 rewards winning, or just having better MMR to get better team. At this point, I have no idea what the truth is really.
If u win ur mmr goes up!
Higher mmr means potentially better team mates!
Reward!
S1 encouraged mmr tanking. Bad!
S2 rewards winning!
Not sure if S2 rewards winning, or just having better MMR to get better team. At this point, I have no idea what the truth is really.
If u win ur mmr goes up!
Higher mmr means potentially better team mates!
Reward!
Yea, but if you start with bad MMR, then you are kinda screwed, since you have no real way to climb, right?
S1 encouraged mmr tanking. Bad!
S2 rewards winning!
Not sure if S2 rewards winning, or just having better MMR to get better team. At this point, I have no idea what the truth is really.
If u win ur mmr goes up!
Higher mmr means potentially better team mates!
Reward!Yea, but if you start with bad MMR, then you are kinda screwed, since you have no real way to climb, right?
Queue with 3 other friends!
Do some 4 man queues!
Play builds that are harder to die and can kill ppl!
S1 encouraged mmr tanking. Bad!
S2 rewards winning!
Not sure if S2 rewards winning, or just having better MMR to get better team. At this point, I have no idea what the truth is really.
It would of course be helpful if Anet came out and explained if the widely held opinion of how the matchmaking is working, were in fact true.
If so, I can only describe it as a very poor decision.
S1 encouraged mmr tanking. Bad!
S2 rewards winning!
Not sure if S2 rewards winning, or just having better MMR to get better team. At this point, I have no idea what the truth is really.
If u win ur mmr goes up!
Higher mmr means potentially better team mates!
Reward!Yea, but if you start with bad MMR, then you are kinda screwed, since you have no real way to climb, right?
Queue with 3 other friends!
Do some 4 man queues!Play builds that are harder to die and can kill ppl!
The intention of this discussion is not for self proclaimed PvP gods to provide ‘helpful tips’ to those they see as below them, but rather to question whether the decision to implement a matchmaking algorithm that clearly is producing a bad experience for the majority of players, is good for the game.
Oh and more importantly, why, when it has been stated that they are aware of the matchmaking ‘issue’, they feel it is a good idea to wait months before fixing it.
(edited by Daroon.1736)
Oh and more importantly, why, when it has been stated that they are aware of the matchmaking ‘issue’, they feel it is a good idea to wait months before fixing it.
My guess is that if they changed anything mid-season, it would screw up the whole thing. Like, if they suddenly changed the algorithms or MMR or matchmaking in general, it might boost some players through divisions artificially and then create another issue in higher divisions.
Or maybe these things need testing and they can’t effectively do that while the season is in progress.
I don’t know honestly. I’d like for something to change, mostly because, same as you, I’m worried about the overall health of the game. The longer it continues, the more anger and bile I experience in chat, as well as more and more quitters and afkers. Like, people give up before the first minute of the match ends. The match starts with 100-40, someone gives up because they think nothing will change. Of course it won’t if we play 4v5. I don’t understand, I’ve had matches where things were turned around post-400 points.
Playing in group helps, but I can’t always form a group. “Git gud” advice is childish, obviously every player is doing their best within their skill range. No one was born with MLG PvP skills, these things take time to learn, but you can hardly learn when you’re being stomped and act as a punching bag for high-skill players on their way to Legendary. I’m glad those people enjoy their climb and are getting their rewards, but the cost of this is too great I’d say. Far more players are not that good and are being put off by zero progress and highly negative experiences. I personally don’t even care about losing, as long as those losses are something I can understand and learn from. Can’t learn from 500-50 result where you’re basically cannon fodder for 4 minutes. It’s also not fun or competitive when I’m on the winning side in these matches.
S1 is very bad, in terms of balance and MM. (5 man premade vs all solo) not to mention smurfing, taking advantage of the pip system boosting players to legendary.
S2 is not perfect but now more forgiving to soloQ players which i like. and lack of unkillable bunkers make the game fun. also the short Qs makes it all better.
Pacific Islander Legion [NoyP]
Black Gate
Ruthless Legend
Black Gate
Ruthless Legend
Oh and more importantly, why, when it has been stated that they are aware of the matchmaking ‘issue’, they feel it is a good idea to wait months before fixing it.
My guess is that if they changed anything mid-season, it would screw up the whole thing. Like, if they suddenly changed the algorithms or MMR or matchmaking in general, it might boost some players through divisions artificially and then create another issue in higher divisions.
Or maybe these things need testing and they can’t effectively do that while the season is in progress.
I don’t know honestly. I’d like for something to change, mostly because, same as you, I’m worried about the overall health of the game. The longer it continues, the more anger and bile I experience in chat, as well as more and more quitters and afkers. Like, people give up before the first minute of the match ends. The match starts with 100-40, someone gives up because they think nothing will change. Of course it won’t if we play 4v5. I don’t understand, I’ve had matches where things were turned around post-400 points.
Playing in group helps, but I can’t always form a group. “Git gud” advice is childish, obviously every player is doing their best within their skill range. No one was born with MLG PvP skills, these things take time to learn, but you can hardly learn when you’re being stomped and act as a punching bag for high-skill players on their way to Legendary. I’m glad those people enjoy their climb and are getting their rewards, but the cost of this is too great I’d say. Far more players are not that good and are being put off by zero progress and highly negative experiences. I personally don’t even care about losing, as long as those losses are something I can understand and learn from. Can’t learn from 500-50 result where you’re basically cannon fodder for 4 minutes. It’s also not fun or competitive when I’m on the winning side in these matches.
That’s the thing. The whole thing is screwed up anyway! They literally cannot do any worse than what we have now.
okay all you S2 matchmaking > S1 , how do you explain the situation in which you get if you lose 3 games in a row ?
You suddenly get mates that have absolutely no clue at all.
The games end 500:~200 many times.
Do you really feel like this is better than it was in s1 ??
Aside of the kittening mmr-tanking is S1 ( i play purely solo-q ) the games there seemed much more balanced.
In both ways.
But now, the moment you reach your MMR and you get into a losing streak its over.
You cannot ever get out there again.
Yo, s1 was hell, I mean, s2 with his flaws is godlike compared to s1
M I L K B O I S
That’s the thing. The whole thing is screwed up anyway! They literally cannot do any worse than what we have now.
Don’t tempt them to test this theory out. :P
Joking aside, yeah. They should have known that frustrating the majority of the player base isn’t the way to go. Perhaps changing things as soon as possible should have been a priority, rather than waiting for Season 3. But who knows, I’d understand if making a huge change mid-season might not actually be beneficial or possible. The only thing I hope for now is that they learn from this and don’t repeat it in Season 3.
i mean seriously, what happend where are the even matches, where is your 50% chance, which showed that you fought even opponents ???
well perhaps my mmr is bugged, it would be soo cool if we could see it, but i doubt they will show their kitten system to public .
S1 is very bad, in terms of balance and MM. (5 man premade vs all solo) not to mention smurfing, taking advantage of the pip system boosting players to legendary.
S2 is not perfect but now more forgiving to soloQ players which i like. and lack of unkillable bunkers make the game fun. also the short Qs makes it all better.
Is this that game where you say the opposite of what is true?
i really feel like there is something wrong with my account, why do i get fullteams as nmys when i play solo, according to pvp-blog this should not happen at all ???
Also the games are not even close atm, is this evan guy around , can he check perhaps – i know he did that for other ppl in the past.
Much apreciated.
S1 is very bad, in terms of balance and MM. (5 man premade vs all solo) not to mention smurfing, taking advantage of the pip system boosting players to legendary.
S2 is not perfect but now more forgiving to soloQ players which i like. and lack of unkillable bunkers make the game fun. also the short Qs makes it all better.
Wait, what? S2 more forgiving than S1!!? Uh-uh, cool story.
I did not like S1 and it was a grind with ppl massively abusing MM but S2 is a kitten even compared to S1 regarding how forgiving it is. When you end up on the wrong side of the MM in S2 you are kittened in term of soloq. Not so in S1 even if it was a joke season in many regard.
S2 is more skill based than S1 but with big loopholes that prevent it from really being really skill based.
I am just wondering whether or not Anet has done any sort of testing at all before rolling out the new algorithm…..
I am just wondering whether or not Anet has done any sort of testing at all before rolling out the new algorithm…..
I don’t think there is an issue with testing, the algorithm seems to be working exactly as intended – it is the Algorithm that is the problem
In simple terms and as I understand it :
The Matchmaking algorithm creates teams by looking firstly at your current position in the league and then assigning you to a team with other players who are a similar position AND who have a similar MMR to you.
The system then chooses 2 of the teams who occupy similar league positions it has created to play a match:
Team A (The winners) all have a high MMR
Team B (The losers) all have a low/average MMR)
The stated desired effect (namely ‘better’ players winning and quickly moving up the league) is achieved, at the expense of the majority (who’s MMR is constantly dropping), and find themselves on endless losing streaks.
So, unless a Dev would care to correct my assumptions – everything is working as intended – See my OP for why ‘intended’ is not a good thing and needs changing sooner, rather than later.
(edited by Daroon.1736)
What S1 got right was it paired teams of similar rating. Where it went wrong was it created an average of an artificial value from an artificial value (MMR) paired people into teams. This created situations where one or two people were basically expected to carry the whole team. This was frustrating and led to people complaining (rightfully so).
What S2 is doing right is it is creating parties with a similar rating. What it is doing wrong is it is no longer looking for opponents with a similar value just opponents. This is leading to complete stomps. This is frustrating and is leading people to complain (rightfully so).
If it is possible, they should take the idea of looking for two teams with similar value and looking for teammate of a similar value and pairing them in a match. From what I have heard this will create longer queues and Anet is trying to make it so queues are short, but in doing so is sacrificing an experience where people can get better or even have fun. The result, very few people I imagine will improve in S2 and when season 3 comes without an MMR reset many will be put in a situation similar to now where getting out of amber or emerald will be nearly impossible.
(Before haters say I’m just mad that I’m not out of amber. I’m in ruby and made it there under both systems. I am by all accounts a completely average player)
1. I’m not a pro but at least an experienced pvp player. I was late for the season and now stuck in ruby due to the lose streak.
2. PVP and WvW don’t attract as many players as in PVE contents and there is nothing wrong in this pvp season system. Many people who are doing in ranked because of the achievements for the wing and badge on their name tag. If so, please punish them and let them stay in their division. Let them learn it through the harsh way. It’s pvp league!
3. Those who are expect to get “lucky” in team match making, forget about it. If you do not know the mechanism in pvp in this season and just want to get a win but don’t want to learn. Don’t do ranked yet, the more you lose, the worse team you will get and then you will continue the lose streak and finally QQ in the forum on the lose streak and the system.
4. What i found on the lower MMR players is that, they are using meta build but they don’t understand it, they just simply keep spamming their skills and greed on kills or triple caps. They don’t hold their caps.
5. You are using meta build? Awesome! But do you know how does it works? Skills spamming? Does it apply to opponent’s comp? How is your team’s mobility? Do you watch your teammates Hp and map? Do you know how to kite and stay alive? Do you know which teammate need help? If you are getting zerg, what are you going to do and etc etc etc etc…
6. Seriously, ask yourself why are you doing ranked? If you just want the achievement for the wing, here a suggestion for you. There are 4 seasons, you have all the time for it but if you are looking for the “wow, a diamond/legendary badge”, you better learn to pvp in this season instead of getting lucky.
Charrs – Thief(80), Guardian(80), Engineer(80), Warrior(80)
[Resting atm :)]
[Resting atm :)]
(edited by SolitaryJr.9654)
S1 is very bad, in terms of balance and MM. (5 man premade vs all solo) not to mention smurfing, taking advantage of the pip system boosting players to legendary.
S2 is not perfect but now more forgiving to soloQ players which i like. and lack of unkillable bunkers make the game fun. also the short Qs makes it all better.
Is this that game where you say the opposite of what is true?
Lol thanks for the laughs.
okay all you S2 matchmaking > S1 , how do you explain the situation in which you get if you lose 3 games in a row ?
I stop for the day, or if I were really into just SPvPing all day, take 5 to get some water and requeue for a different set of teammates and enemies.
You suddenly get mates that have absolutely no clue at all.
The games end 500:~200 many times.
Communication helps. Or plan a rotation given your team can’t win a fight greater than 3 on either side. Try everything you can, split their comp up, etc.
Do you really feel like this is better than it was in s1 ??
Season 1 was the most abysmal PvP ever. I didn’t say MMO, I mean Season 1 was probably the worst state of PvP in a game since Atari. Whoever decided to allow such a broken, skill-less and boring meta exist in the first place needed to receive a very firm kidney shot. The sheer fact that even in professional tourneys streamed that the game ended when someone got a two-cap speaks for just how low the bar was there.
Season 2 is in every single category save maybe matchmaking, better than Season 1 by an immeasurable amount.
Aside of the kittening mmr-tanking is S1 ( i play purely solo-q ) the games there seemed much more balanced.
In both ways.
No, Non, ‘Insert another language of NO here’. With how skill-less the viable bunker builds were, you couldn’t honestly separate the difference between an Emerald and a Diamond, it was too simple to pull off the combos, to stay on point and just live. It is why players got to Legend so easily, it is why many players are ‘feeling’ so wronged about this season.
The honest truth? Some people rocking the Primordial Legend should not have gotten it, talk about imbalance and boring grind. If the first season were like this season in any regard, there would be far less titles around than right now. And that’s a good thing.
But now, the moment you reach your MMR and you get into a losing streak its over.
You cannot ever get out there again.
Like I said before, the matchmaking now is trying to affix a group around your MMR to you, if you find that you are getting some…rather ‘skill-less’ competition which could very likely just be a team that simply cannot play too well together, then stop queuing for a bit!
Losing sucks, we all get it. It’s a good thing that there are ways to stop yourself from tilting, it’s a pretty great thing too when you manage to get away from teammates who at a certain point due to their own losing streaks, start to rage and afk and the like.
But don’t even pretend like Season 1 was anything remotely good for SPvP. It was the worst period of SPvP balance ever, even given the participation which was largely baited by the opportunity at a nice legendary back-piece.
Suicidal Warrior.
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
1. I’m not a pro but at least an experienced pvp player. I was late for the season and now stuck in ruby due to the lose streak.
2. PVP and WvW don’t attract as many players as in PVE contents and there is nothing wrong in this pvp season system. Many people who are doing in ranked because of the achievements for the wing and badge on their name tag. If so, please punish them and let them stay in their division. Let them learn it through the harsh way. It’s pvp league!
3. Those who are expect to get “lucky” in team match making, forget about it. If you do not know the mechanism in pvp in this season and just want to get a win but don’t want to learn. Don’t do ranked yet, the more you lose, the worse team you will get and then you will continue the lose streak and finally QQ in the forum on the lose streak and the system.
4. What i found on the lower MMR players is that, they are using meta build but they don’t understand it, they just simply keep spamming their skills and greed on kills or triple caps. They don’t hold their caps.5. You are using meta build? Awesome! But do you know how does it works? Skills spamming? Does it apply to opponent’s comp? How is your team’s mobility? Do you watch your teammates Hp and map? Do you know how to kite and stay alive? Do you know which teammate need help? If you are getting zerg, what are you going to do and etc etc etc etc…
6. Seriously, ask yourself why are you doing ranked? If you just want the achievement for the wing, here a suggestion for you. There are 4 seasons, you have all the time for it but if you are looking for the “wow, a diamond/legendary badge”, you better learn to pvp in this season instead of getting lucky.
I don’t expect to get lucky or get carried just want to learn and improve have done unranked hotjoin to help myself practising and putting the effort in and doing all I can to improve but is hopeless if no one else on team does and am stuck whatever I do – and know my build but still stuck in mmr hell losing streak
your thread is just what puts me and the majority off pvp—
if you have nothing helpful to say then refrain from posting thanks
okay all you S2 matchmaking > S1 , how do you explain the situation in which you get if you lose 3 games in a row ?
I stop for the day, or if I were really into just SPvPing all day, take 5 to get some water and requeue for a different set of teammates and enemies.
You suddenly get mates that have absolutely no clue at all.
The games end 500:~200 many times.Communication helps. Or plan a rotation given your team can’t win a fight greater than 3 on either side. Try everything you can, split their comp up, etc.
Do you really feel like this is better than it was in s1 ??
Season 1 was the most abysmal PvP ever. I didn’t say MMO, I mean Season 1 was probably the worst state of PvP in a game since Atari. Whoever decided to allow such a broken, skill-less and boring meta exist in the first place needed to receive a very firm kidney shot. The sheer fact that even in professional tourneys streamed that the game ended when someone got a two-cap speaks for just how low the bar was there.
Season 2 is in every single category save maybe matchmaking, better than Season 1 by an immeasurable amount.
Aside of the kittening mmr-tanking is S1 ( i play purely solo-q ) the games there seemed much more balanced.
In both ways.No, Non, ‘Insert another language of NO here’. With how skill-less the viable bunker builds were, you couldn’t honestly separate the difference between an Emerald and a Diamond, it was too simple to pull off the combos, to stay on point and just live. It is why players got to Legend so easily, it is why many players are ‘feeling’ so wronged about this season.
The honest truth? Some people rocking the Primordial Legend should not have gotten it, talk about imbalance and boring grind. If the first season were like this season in any regard, there would be far less titles around than right now. And that’s a good thing.
But now, the moment you reach your MMR and you get into a losing streak its over.
You cannot ever get out there again.Like I said before, the matchmaking now is trying to affix a group around your MMR to you, if you find that you are getting some…rather ‘skill-less’ competition which could very likely just be a team that simply cannot play too well together, then stop queuing for a bit!
Losing sucks, we all get it. It’s a good thing that there are ways to stop yourself from tilting, it’s a pretty great thing too when you manage to get away from teammates who at a certain point due to their own losing streaks, start to rage and afk and the like.
But don’t even pretend like Season 1 was anything remotely good for SPvP. It was the worst period of SPvP balance ever, even given the participation which was largely baited by the opportunity at a nice legendary back-piece.
have done all of that taken breaks continually – does not help still get the same teams even after returning – am stuck in hell now!
2. PVP and WvW don’t attract as many players as in PVE contents and there is nothing wrong in this pvp season system. Many people who are doing in ranked because of the achievements for the wing and badge on their name tag. If so, please punish them and let them stay in their division. Let them learn it through the harsh way. It’s pvp league!
This essentially is the crux of the issue.
Rhetorical question – What is the purpose of the PvP league seasons?
Answer: To attract more players ( by enticing them with achievements and rewards) into PvP – thereby providing those who might not otherwise have tried it, additional content that adds value to the game and keeps them around (buying gems) and more expansion packs.
That is it – That is the raison d’etre for every bit of content in the game.
So, assuming we accept this, the outcome of a well designed piece of content, should be to provide an enjoyable experience to as much as the player base as possible.
Seriously, who cares what achievements, rewards or titles other players have – If you alienate the majority of the player base with more and more content which (to use your words) ‘punishes them’ for being ‘average’ – they become angry, annoyed and ultimately quit the game – This is not a good long term strategy for anyone.
2. PVP and WvW don’t attract as many players as in PVE contents and there is nothing wrong in this pvp season system. Many people who are doing in ranked because of the achievements for the wing and badge on their name tag. If so, please punish them and let them stay in their division. Let them learn it through the harsh way. It’s pvp league!
This essentially is the crux of the issue.
Rhetorical question – What is the purpose of the PvP league seasons?
Answer: To attract more players ( by enticing them with achievements and rewards) into PvP – thereby providing those who might not otherwise have tried it, additional content that adds value to the game and keeps them around (buying gems) and more expansion packs.
That is it – That is the raison d’etre for every bit of content in the game.
So, assuming we accept this, the outcome of a well designed piece of content, should be to provide an enjoyable experience to as much as the player base as possible.
Seriously, who cares what achievements, rewards or titles other players have – If you alienate the majority of the player base with more and more content which (to use your words) ‘punishes them’ for being ‘average’ – they become angry, annoyed and ultimately quit the game – This is not a good long term strategy for anyone.
Petty players do as if the leaderboard wasn’t enough for us. I mainly spvp only pve when I have pong issue or what not. But the level of salt last season from pro players was insane. The positives are everyone learned from s2.