Guild Wars 2

To place an icd on Dash removing immobilize. Someone didn’t read their assignments to get it in this patch.

But…but…Bound.

Was that on the table?

Aenaos.8160:

Was that on the table?

OP wants traitline about mobility not have anything to do with mobility.

Cynz.9437:

Aenaos.8160:

Was that on the table?

OP wants traitline about mobility not have anything to do with mobility.

OP wants an icd on an ability that is another, among many, overly bloated abilities for thief. Spamming dodges to break immobilizes when thieves multiple means to do so is unhealthy for balanced gameplay.

Pyriall.1683:

Cynz.9437:

Aenaos.8160:

Was that on the table?

OP wants traitline about mobility not have anything to do with mobility.

OP wants an icd on an ability that is another, among many, overly bloated abilities for thief. Spamming dodges to break immobilizes when thieves multiple means to do so is unhealthy for balanced gameplay.

OP doesn’t realize the last 2 balance patches have seen nerfs to Thieves Evades and Endurance regeneration.

It’s funny the complaints are coming from someone that plays a class with on demand access to Resistance Spam which negates all movement impairing effects.

Sly.9518:

Pyriall.1683:

Cynz.9437:

Aenaos.8160:

Was that on the table?

OP wants traitline about mobility not have anything to do with mobility.

OP wants an icd on an ability that is another, among many, overly bloated abilities for thief. Spamming dodges to break immobilizes when thieves multiple means to do so is unhealthy for balanced gameplay.

OP doesn’t realize the last 2 balance patches have seen nerfs to Thieves Evades and Endurance regeneration.

It’s funny the complaints are coming from someone that plays a class with on demand access to Resistance Spam which negates all movement impairing effects.

What’s funny is I play every single profession in this game, more than most of you. When classes that have a minimal way of gaining distance from a thief and he just random kittenollolol dodges out of it, you’ll begin to recognize the broken nature of dash. I can be objective in my criticism of abilities.

Also, I don’t know where you’re getting that I play something with on demand resistance spam as my profession.

Pyriall.1683:

Sly.9518:

Pyriall.1683:

Cynz.9437:

Aenaos.8160:

Was that on the table?

OP wants traitline about mobility not have anything to do with mobility.

OP wants an icd on an ability that is another, among many, overly bloated abilities for thief. Spamming dodges to break immobilizes when thieves multiple means to do so is unhealthy for balanced gameplay.

OP doesn’t realize the last 2 balance patches have seen nerfs to Thieves Evades and Endurance regeneration.

It’s funny the complaints are coming from someone that plays a class with on demand access to Resistance Spam which negates all movement impairing effects.

What’s funny is I play every single profession in this game, more than most of you. When classes that have a minimal way of gaining distance from a thief and he just random kittenollolol dodges out of it, you’ll begin to recognize the broken nature of dash. I can be objective in my criticism of abilities.

Also, I don’t know where you’re getting that I play something with on demand resistance spam as my profession.

Oh no, how dare a class that can’t hold point nor tank/support team to save their lives be good at moving around the map! Blasphemy!

Cynz.9437:

Pyriall.1683:

Sly.9518:

Pyriall.1683:

Cynz.9437:

Aenaos.8160:

Was that on the table?

OP wants traitline about mobility not have anything to do with mobility.

OP wants an icd on an ability that is another, among many, overly bloated abilities for thief. Spamming dodges to break immobilizes when thieves multiple means to do so is unhealthy for balanced gameplay.

OP doesn’t realize the last 2 balance patches have seen nerfs to Thieves Evades and Endurance regeneration.

It’s funny the complaints are coming from someone that plays a class with on demand access to Resistance Spam which negates all movement impairing effects.

What’s funny is I play every single profession in this game, more than most of you. When classes that have a minimal way of gaining distance from a thief and he just random kittenollolol dodges out of it, you’ll begin to recognize the broken nature of dash. I can be objective in my criticism of abilities.

Also, I don’t know where you’re getting that I play something with on demand resistance spam as my profession.

Oh no, how dare a class that can’t hold point nor tank/support team to save their lives be good at moving around the map! Blasphemy!

having a small icd on immobilize break on dodge wouldnt affect how fast you can move around the map. it just affects how easily you can reset a fight.

abaddon.3290:

Cynz.9437:

Pyriall.1683:

Sly.9518:

Pyriall.1683:

Cynz.9437:

Aenaos.8160:

Was that on the table?

OP wants traitline about mobility not have anything to do with mobility.

OP wants an icd on an ability that is another, among many, overly bloated abilities for thief. Spamming dodges to break immobilizes when thieves multiple means to do so is unhealthy for balanced gameplay.

OP doesn’t realize the last 2 balance patches have seen nerfs to Thieves Evades and Endurance regeneration.

It’s funny the complaints are coming from someone that plays a class with on demand access to Resistance Spam which negates all movement impairing effects.

What’s funny is I play every single profession in this game, more than most of you. When classes that have a minimal way of gaining distance from a thief and he just random kittenollolol dodges out of it, you’ll begin to recognize the broken nature of dash. I can be objective in my criticism of abilities.

Also, I don’t know where you’re getting that I play something with on demand resistance spam as my profession.

Oh no, how dare a class that can’t hold point nor tank/support team to save their lives be good at moving around the map! Blasphemy!

having a small icd on immobilize break on dodge wouldnt affect how fast you can move around the map. it just affects how easily you can reset a fight.

Bravo! We found a winner! This is what thief should be all about (according to devs) -
run away! Whole reason why they gutted every other aspect if thief to june patch was their idea of thief being decap pet/janitor. Running away is part of that “design”.

Also, why do you have such issue with thief running away in pvp? It would mean you won the fight and point is yours now.

abaddon.3290:

Cynz.9437:

Pyriall.1683:

Sly.9518:

Pyriall.1683:

Cynz.9437:

Aenaos.8160:

Was that on the table?

OP wants traitline about mobility not have anything to do with mobility.

OP wants an icd on an ability that is another, among many, overly bloated abilities for thief. Spamming dodges to break immobilizes when thieves multiple means to do so is unhealthy for balanced gameplay.

OP doesn’t realize the last 2 balance patches have seen nerfs to Thieves Evades and Endurance regeneration.

It’s funny the complaints are coming from someone that plays a class with on demand access to Resistance Spam which negates all movement impairing effects.

What’s funny is I play every single profession in this game, more than most of you. When classes that have a minimal way of gaining distance from a thief and he just random kittenollolol dodges out of it, you’ll begin to recognize the broken nature of dash. I can be objective in my criticism of abilities.

Also, I don’t know where you’re getting that I play something with on demand resistance spam as my profession.

Oh no, how dare a class that can’t hold point nor tank/support team to save their lives be good at moving around the map! Blasphemy!

having a small icd on immobilize break on dodge wouldnt affect how fast you can move around the map. it just affects how easily you can reset a fight.

There is already a CD on how many Immobs that can be cleansed, this is called endurance regen…….. and since the last couple patches Thieves have had their endurance regen nerfed significantly. Just saying,

Sly.9518:

abaddon.3290:

Cynz.9437:

Pyriall.1683:

Sly.9518:

Pyriall.1683:

Cynz.9437:

Aenaos.8160:

Was that on the table?

OP wants traitline about mobility not have anything to do with mobility.

OP wants an icd on an ability that is another, among many, overly bloated abilities for thief. Spamming dodges to break immobilizes when thieves multiple means to do so is unhealthy for balanced gameplay.

OP doesn’t realize the last 2 balance patches have seen nerfs to Thieves Evades and Endurance regeneration.

It’s funny the complaints are coming from someone that plays a class with on demand access to Resistance Spam which negates all movement impairing effects.

What’s funny is I play every single profession in this game, more than most of you. When classes that have a minimal way of gaining distance from a thief and he just random kittenollolol dodges out of it, you’ll begin to recognize the broken nature of dash. I can be objective in my criticism of abilities.

Also, I don’t know where you’re getting that I play something with on demand resistance spam as my profession.

Oh no, how dare a class that can’t hold point nor tank/support team to save their lives be good at moving around the map! Blasphemy!

having a small icd on immobilize break on dodge wouldnt affect how fast you can move around the map. it just affects how easily you can reset a fight.

There is already a CD on how many Immobs that can be cleansed, this is called endurance regen…….. and since the last couple patches Thieves have had their endurance regen nerfed significantly. Just saying,

This is laughable.

Pyriall.1683:

Sly.9518:

abaddon.3290:

Cynz.9437:

Pyriall.1683:

Sly.9518:

Pyriall.1683:

Cynz.9437:

Aenaos.8160:

Was that on the table?

OP wants traitline about mobility not have anything to do with mobility.

OP wants an icd on an ability that is another, among many, overly bloated abilities for thief. Spamming dodges to break immobilizes when thieves multiple means to do so is unhealthy for balanced gameplay.

OP doesn’t realize the last 2 balance patches have seen nerfs to Thieves Evades and Endurance regeneration.

It’s funny the complaints are coming from someone that plays a class with on demand access to Resistance Spam which negates all movement impairing effects.

What’s funny is I play every single profession in this game, more than most of you. When classes that have a minimal way of gaining distance from a thief and he just random kittenollolol dodges out of it, you’ll begin to recognize the broken nature of dash. I can be objective in my criticism of abilities.

Also, I don’t know where you’re getting that I play something with on demand resistance spam as my profession.

Oh no, how dare a class that can’t hold point nor tank/support team to save their lives be good at moving around the map! Blasphemy!

having a small icd on immobilize break on dodge wouldnt affect how fast you can move around the map. it just affects how easily you can reset a fight.

There is already a CD on how many Immobs that can be cleansed, this is called endurance regen…….. and since the last couple patches Thieves have had their endurance regen nerfed significantly. Just saying,

This is laughable.

It is laughable the excuses you ty to come up with when Anet has already been indirectly nerfing UC through nerfing Thief Endurance regen. Again I’m so sorry I can’t play the game for you and make it easier for you.

Cynz.9437:

abaddon.3290:

Cynz.9437:

Pyriall.1683:

Sly.9518:

Pyriall.1683:

Cynz.9437:

Aenaos.8160:

Was that on the table?

OP wants traitline about mobility not have anything to do with mobility.

OP wants an icd on an ability that is another, among many, overly bloated abilities for thief. Spamming dodges to break immobilizes when thieves multiple means to do so is unhealthy for balanced gameplay.

OP doesn’t realize the last 2 balance patches have seen nerfs to Thieves Evades and Endurance regeneration.

It’s funny the complaints are coming from someone that plays a class with on demand access to Resistance Spam which negates all movement impairing effects.

What’s funny is I play every single profession in this game, more than most of you. When classes that have a minimal way of gaining distance from a thief and he just random kittenollolol dodges out of it, you’ll begin to recognize the broken nature of dash. I can be objective in my criticism of abilities.

Also, I don’t know where you’re getting that I play something with on demand resistance spam as my profession.

Oh no, how dare a class that can’t hold point nor tank/support team to save their lives be good at moving around the map! Blasphemy!

having a small icd on immobilize break on dodge wouldnt affect how fast you can move around the map. it just affects how easily you can reset a fight.

Bravo! We found a winner! This is what thief should be all about (according to devs) -
run away! Whole reason why they gutted every other aspect if thief to june patch was their idea of thief being decap pet/janitor. Running away is part of that “design”.

Also, why do you have such issue with thief running away in pvp? It would mean you won the fight and point is yours now.

oh i dont. i also dont think we should be nerfing thief. no matter how much people cry and thief players cry thief is neither overpowered or underpowered. it plays its roll correctly and doesnt step out of bounds. if thief started 1v1ing most of the classes while maintaining their movement speed and stealth id have a issue. but we are far from that currently. my comment was just pointing out its to stop thief’s from resetting a fight not mobility, no sense misrepresenting the argument.

Swiftness shouldnt even be on Dash and should instead give 1 second Superspeed. Why does a thief able to have perm uptime of swiftness is beyond me. Cooldown on the removal of immobilize or even just remove would be good as well. Superspeed would handle the chill slow and just better overall.

I mean even Dash with 10% dmg reduction is a bit much as long as their health remains the same it isnt too bad. But has everything else just from dodging is over the top.

Also this stuff is daredevil not Thief…true thief doesnt have a line to change their dodges…. they survived 3 years without it they dont need it now. If swiftness is meant to be had by all why is it even a boon and just be baseline speed…. that would be an awesome change as well.. all have swiftness WHY have a boon for it… i mean rev even got it randomly added in invocation line.

Just a fyi im not a thief hater.. im a imbalance over tuned trait/skill hater. Heck there is a bone to pick for every class.

Sly.9518:

Pyriall.1683:

Sly.9518:

abaddon.3290:

Cynz.9437:

Pyriall.1683:

Sly.9518:

Pyriall.1683:

Cynz.9437:

Aenaos.8160:

Was that on the table?

OP wants traitline about mobility not have anything to do with mobility.

OP wants an icd on an ability that is another, among many, overly bloated abilities for thief. Spamming dodges to break immobilizes when thieves multiple means to do so is unhealthy for balanced gameplay.

OP doesn’t realize the last 2 balance patches have seen nerfs to Thieves Evades and Endurance regeneration.

It’s funny the complaints are coming from someone that plays a class with on demand access to Resistance Spam which negates all movement impairing effects.

What’s funny is I play every single profession in this game, more than most of you. When classes that have a minimal way of gaining distance from a thief and he just random kittenollolol dodges out of it, you’ll begin to recognize the broken nature of dash. I can be objective in my criticism of abilities.

Also, I don’t know where you’re getting that I play something with on demand resistance spam as my profession.

Oh no, how dare a class that can’t hold point nor tank/support team to save their lives be good at moving around the map! Blasphemy!

having a small icd on immobilize break on dodge wouldnt affect how fast you can move around the map. it just affects how easily you can reset a fight.

There is already a CD on how many Immobs that can be cleansed, this is called endurance regen…….. and since the last couple patches Thieves have had their endurance regen nerfed significantly. Just saying,

This is laughable.

It is laughable the excuses you ty to come up with when Anet has already been indirectly nerfing UC through nerfing Thief Endurance regen. Again I’m so sorry I can’t play the game for you and make it easier for you.

What excuses? I’ve given a reason and all you have done is provide the excuses. Thieves have multiple means to cleanse immobilizes, something as spammable as should not remain as overly bloated at trait as it is; however if it is to remain as such place an icd on the immobilize portion of it.

It amazes me that there are people who are so focused on keeping in traits/abilities that are not healthy for the game only so they can feed their egos playing those very builds that are destructive to the game as a whole.

Pyriall.1683:

Sly.9518:

Pyriall.1683:

Sly.9518:

abaddon.3290:

Cynz.9437:

Pyriall.1683:

Sly.9518:

Pyriall.1683:

Cynz.9437:

Aenaos.8160:

Was that on the table?

OP wants traitline about mobility not have anything to do with mobility.

OP wants an icd on an ability that is another, among many, overly bloated abilities for thief. Spamming dodges to break immobilizes when thieves multiple means to do so is unhealthy for balanced gameplay.

OP doesn’t realize the last 2 balance patches have seen nerfs to Thieves Evades and Endurance regeneration.

It’s funny the complaints are coming from someone that plays a class with on demand access to Resistance Spam which negates all movement impairing effects.

What’s funny is I play every single profession in this game, more than most of you. When classes that have a minimal way of gaining distance from a thief and he just random kittenollolol dodges out of it, you’ll begin to recognize the broken nature of dash. I can be objective in my criticism of abilities.

Also, I don’t know where you’re getting that I play something with on demand resistance spam as my profession.

Oh no, how dare a class that can’t hold point nor tank/support team to save their lives be good at moving around the map! Blasphemy!

having a small icd on immobilize break on dodge wouldnt affect how fast you can move around the map. it just affects how easily you can reset a fight.

There is already a CD on how many Immobs that can be cleansed, this is called endurance regen…….. and since the last couple patches Thieves have had their endurance regen nerfed significantly. Just saying,

This is laughable.

It is laughable the excuses you ty to come up with when Anet has already been indirectly nerfing UC through nerfing Thief Endurance regen. Again I’m so sorry I can’t play the game for you and make it easier for you.

What excuses? I’ve given a reason and all you have done is provide the excuses. Thieves have multiple means to cleanse immobilizes, something as spammable as should not remain as overly bloated at trait as it is; however if it is to remain as such place an icd on the immobilize portion of it.

It amazes me that there are people who are so focused on keeping in traits/abilities that are not healthy for the game only so they can feed their egos playing those very builds that are destructive to the game as a whole.

I have an advice for you. Go play core thief without drd. Try it. You will see the issue with cripple.

I thought that this trait was wrong from the very beginning. Besides how op daredevil movement was when it first hit this should be more than easy for a logical thinking person: Daredevils have insane mobility so what is their obvious weakness? Immob! …. oh yeah let’s just completely negate that counter…what could possibly go wrong?

It would just be better if there was no movement impairing effect removal at all on that trait. Give it something else in its place. The condi dodge hurls a condi attack, and Bound does damage on impact. But being able to remove all movement impairing effects with such ease, even with an ICD, is always going to be OP. The CD would have to be pretty long and it’s just a cheap way to balance it. There are better ways to balance, and it’s called reworking.

Entenkommando.5208:

I thought that this trait was wrong from the very beginning. Besides how op daredevil movement was when it first hit this should be more than easy for a logical thinking person: Daredevils have insane mobility so what is their obvious weakness? Immob! …. oh yeah let’s just completely negate that counter…what could possibly go wrong?

Immob is obvious counter? Says who? You?

I think there is plenty counters to thief mechanics as it is. Once again, go play core just to get the idea why drd dodge cleanses cripple/immobs.

Zintrothen.1056:

It would just be better if there was no movement impairing effect removal at all on that trait. Give it something else in its place. The condi dodge hurls a condi attack, and Bound does damage on impact. But being able to remove all movement impairing effects with such ease, even with an ICD, is always going to be OP. The CD would have to be pretty long and it’s just a cheap way to balance it. There are better ways to balance, and it’s called reworking.

Go play core thief before you make suggestions like this. Honestly, do it.

Cynz.9437:

Entenkommando.5208:

I thought that this trait was wrong from the very beginning. Besides how op daredevil movement was when it first hit this should be more than easy for a logical thinking person: Daredevils have insane mobility so what is their obvious weakness? Immob! …. oh yeah let’s just completely negate that counter…what could possibly go wrong?

Immob is obvious counter? Says who? You?

I think there is plenty counters to thief mechanics as it is. Once again, go play core just to get the idea why drd dodge cleanses cripple/immobs.
.

There is a big difference between immob and the other movement impairing conditions. Immob can hardly be spammed out.
Also I think that you are holding onto your core thief a bit too much. Daredevils are always moving, constantly dodging so how exactly is a well timed immob not a viable counter to them that should be rewarded? It’s not like you still got other means of condi removal or could just teleport away for the first second at least.
That is the exact problem all elite specs have: you saw a problem with the old core class, fixed it, yet never brought in any other weakness that would compensate for it.
This leads to the exact power creep they now (finally!) try to reduce because they just kept stacking on top of the core class instead of giving elite specs their own identity with its own counters.

Sure, make a small ICD when you remove immob clear on certain classes/weapons

Cynz.9437:

Whole reason why they gutted every other aspect if thief to june patch was their idea of thief being decap pet/janitor. Running away is part of that “design”.

Not really, the whole reason it is largely like that is because thief is a badly designed class with mechanics that are too strong, and too different from every other class that are impossible to balance, in a game with a badly designed trait/stat/skill system where they can’t easily isolate one build from another.

What thief (and the entire trait/skill/stat/weapon system) actually needs are fundamental changes, but it is Anet and they specialise in papering over the cracks, rather than finding real solutions, which is part of the reason their game is in the state it is in.

Cynz.9437:

Pyriall.1683:

Sly.9518:

Pyriall.1683:

Sly.9518:

abaddon.3290:

Cynz.9437:

Pyriall.1683:

Sly.9518:

Pyriall.1683:

Cynz.9437:

Aenaos.8160:

Was that on the table?

OP wants traitline about mobility not have anything to do with mobility.

OP wants an icd on an ability that is another, among many, overly bloated abilities for thief. Spamming dodges to break immobilizes when thieves multiple means to do so is unhealthy for balanced gameplay.

OP doesn’t realize the last 2 balance patches have seen nerfs to Thieves Evades and Endurance regeneration.

It’s funny the complaints are coming from someone that plays a class with on demand access to Resistance Spam which negates all movement impairing effects.

What’s funny is I play every single profession in this game, more than most of you. When classes that have a minimal way of gaining distance from a thief and he just random kittenollolol dodges out of it, you’ll begin to recognize the broken nature of dash. I can be objective in my criticism of abilities.

Also, I don’t know where you’re getting that I play something with on demand resistance spam as my profession.

Oh no, how dare a class that can’t hold point nor tank/support team to save their lives be good at moving around the map! Blasphemy!

having a small icd on immobilize break on dodge wouldnt affect how fast you can move around the map. it just affects how easily you can reset a fight.

There is already a CD on how many Immobs that can be cleansed, this is called endurance regen…….. and since the last couple patches Thieves have had their endurance regen nerfed significantly. Just saying,

This is laughable.

It is laughable the excuses you ty to come up with when Anet has already been indirectly nerfing UC through nerfing Thief Endurance regen. Again I’m so sorry I can’t play the game for you and make it easier for you.

What excuses? I’ve given a reason and all you have done is provide the excuses. Thieves have multiple means to cleanse immobilizes, something as spammable as should not remain as overly bloated at trait as it is; however if it is to remain as such place an icd on the immobilize portion of it.

It amazes me that there are people who are so focused on keeping in traits/abilities that are not healthy for the game only so they can feed their egos playing those very builds that are destructive to the game as a whole.

I have an advice for you. Go play core thief without drd. Try it. You will see the issue with cripple.

If this the standard you are using to validate your point, then sir you have failed. I do/have played core thief and it is still better than those builds who do not have a large number of ways to deal with immobilizes.

Pyriall.1683:

Cynz.9437:

Pyriall.1683:

Sly.9518:

Pyriall.1683:

Sly.9518:

abaddon.3290:

Cynz.9437:

Pyriall.1683:

Sly.9518:

Pyriall.1683:

Cynz.9437:

Aenaos.8160:

Was that on the table?

OP wants traitline about mobility not have anything to do with mobility.

OP wants an icd on an ability that is another, among many, overly bloated abilities for thief. Spamming dodges to break immobilizes when thieves multiple means to do so is unhealthy for balanced gameplay.

OP doesn’t realize the last 2 balance patches have seen nerfs to Thieves Evades and Endurance regeneration.

It’s funny the complaints are coming from someone that plays a class with on demand access to Resistance Spam which negates all movement impairing effects.

What’s funny is I play every single profession in this game, more than most of you. When classes that have a minimal way of gaining distance from a thief and he just random kittenollolol dodges out of it, you’ll begin to recognize the broken nature of dash. I can be objective in my criticism of abilities.

Also, I don’t know where you’re getting that I play something with on demand resistance spam as my profession.

Oh no, how dare a class that can’t hold point nor tank/support team to save their lives be good at moving around the map! Blasphemy!

having a small icd on immobilize break on dodge wouldnt affect how fast you can move around the map. it just affects how easily you can reset a fight.

There is already a CD on how many Immobs that can be cleansed, this is called endurance regen…….. and since the last couple patches Thieves have had their endurance regen nerfed significantly. Just saying,

This is laughable.

It is laughable the excuses you ty to come up with when Anet has already been indirectly nerfing UC through nerfing Thief Endurance regen. Again I’m so sorry I can’t play the game for you and make it easier for you.

What excuses? I’ve given a reason and all you have done is provide the excuses. Thieves have multiple means to cleanse immobilizes, something as spammable as should not remain as overly bloated at trait as it is; however if it is to remain as such place an icd on the immobilize portion of it.

It amazes me that there are people who are so focused on keeping in traits/abilities that are not healthy for the game only so they can feed their egos playing those very builds that are destructive to the game as a whole.

I have an advice for you. Go play core thief without drd. Try it. You will see the issue with cripple.

If this the standard you are using to validate your point, then sir you have failed. I do/have played core thief and it is still better than those builds who do not have a large number of ways to deal with immobilizes.

Post a video of you playing core to prove your point. Go on.

@zinkz.7045: that is your opinion. What devs said on stream was something different.

@Entenkommando.5208: that is 2 things. Sure, i am all up for nerfing DRD if other elite specs also see meaningful “shaves”. The posters in this thread however demand just plain thief nerf because they don’t like the idea of thief being mobile so he/she can fulfill their role as decap pet/janitor. There have been countless cries about stealth so Anet forced thieves into dodges/evades/mobility, now you complain about that as well. When are you actually satisfied? When thief stands still and feeds enemy free points? Because by the looks of it is what everyone here wants.

Once again, who says immob should be a counter to the class that is all about mobility? Thief is not a warrior or necro, they can’t take more than 1-2 hits. They do not have “bajilion” of dodges as posters that do not play the class claim. If they sat in immobs, they would be dead 24/7 and getting reported for simply existing like in seasons 1-2. I think thief has plenty counters as it is atm, why do you need more?

And if thief indeed so broken and OP, as every complainer claims, why does every single team throws a tantrum (including reports, verbal harassment, afking etc., i can show you the screenshots of the guy that decided he would afk every time he has a thief on team and he actually did so) when they have more than one thief on team?

Then I ask you: what do you see as a counter to dd? They are always moving, you can’t catch them, they can dodge (not as much anymore) almost everything.
So what is their weakness in your opinion if not having a very small window between their dodges to actually prevent them from running away again?

You can’t possibly tell me that thiefs only weakness is the players stupidity to not run away fast enaugh.

Entenkommando.5208:

Then I ask you: what do you see as a counter to dd? They are always moving, you can’t catch them, they can dodge (not as much anymore) almost everything.
So what is their weakness in your opinion if not having a very small window between their dodges to actually prevent them from running away again?

You can’t possibly tell me that thiefs only weakness is the players stupidity to not run away fast enaugh.

Ok, let’s take example of DH/guards that have been hardcounter to thieves since day 1. What do they have? High access to CC (including aoe), blocks(including aoe), instant hard hitting spells(including aoe), multiple gap closers/ports, now extra reveal as well.

Why do you think you are supposed to catch a thief as say bruiser that is meant to hold point/engage big team fights? Why would anyone play thief if it was easy to catch? It is not like they bring much team support, can hold point or engage big team fights. We all saw what happened when bruiser was capable to keep up with a thief (hello revs from season 1) – thief was obsolete and the very few players (including me) that did ranked as thief were getting harassed/reported nearly every match simply because they played the class. The thief ran away? Grats!!! The point is yours. It is not wvw, where potential loot bag got denied to you.

As stated above, Guard and DH are pretty good counters to thieves. Scrappers can give them a hard time too. It’s pretty easy to understand if you make the thief blow cooldowns/run away, you’ve won the fight. You don’t always have to kill something to win.

Not to mention if you play properly you can force the thief into very awkward positions and rotations, but nah too much work amirite?

Skills like dash arent good for the game. Something that can remove any movement impairing condi on demand is stupidly overpowered and nullifies some things completely. Do you like playing against the DH survivability mechanic? Now imagine that without any unblockable skills. Fun and interactive right?

Please tell me more about how the 3 dodge endurance bar with your signet of agility arent enough dodges to remove an immob at any time. If you seriously think that you must be using your dodges very wisely.

Even if the trait would have a 10s icd on immob remove it would always still be picked over bound as long as any movement impairing effects have an impact in the game. A trait that makes your dodges give you a damage modifier. Along with damage. Its like a good trait on steroids for any other profession and im talking about bound not even dash.

Before the mad thieves attack, im saying the trait is overpowered, not that thief is. Though thief is in a far better state than any of you think.

Forsty.7968:

Skills like dash arent good for the game. Something that can remove any movement impairing condi on demand is stupidly overpowered and nullifies some things completely. Do you like playing against the DH survivability mechanic? Now imagine that without any unblockable skills. Fun and interactive right?

Please tell me more about how the 3 dodge endurance bar with your signet of agility arent enough dodges to remove an immob at any time. If you seriously think that you must be using your dodges very wisely.

Even if the trait would have a 10s icd on immob remove it would always still be picked over bound as long as any movement impairing effects have an impact in the game. A trait that makes your dodges give you a damage modifier. Along with damage. Its like a good trait on steroids for any other profession and im talking about bound not even dash.

Before the mad thieves attack, im saying the trait is overpowered, not that thief is. Though thief is in a far better state than any of you think.

Remove reveal on demand, make stealth more viable again and we can talk about nerfing dash. Once again, the hell do you do as thief to stay alive? Every time i ask this question, i always get same answer “dodge” since thief can’t take more than one hit. But here you are complaining that thief uses dodges and has counter to condi that otherwise would prevent them from using dodge. Honestly people, why do you not get it? Thief doesn’t have 28k HP, endure pain etc. to just stand there like training golem and take them beating in the face but this is exactly what you are asking for.

Frosty, i know why you ask for dash nerf. So you can do your mesmer combo wombo without any timing/counting dodges etc. This has nothing to do with balance.

Shatter and shield skills on mesmer are not good for the game, they should be removed. They render player being completely unable to do anything. See, i can do it too.

Cynz.9437:

Forsty.7968:

Skills like dash arent good for the game. Something that can remove any movement impairing condi on demand is stupidly overpowered and nullifies some things completely. Do you like playing against the DH survivability mechanic? Now imagine that without any unblockable skills. Fun and interactive right?

Please tell me more about how the 3 dodge endurance bar with your signet of agility arent enough dodges to remove an immob at any time. If you seriously think that you must be using your dodges very wisely.

Even if the trait would have a 10s icd on immob remove it would always still be picked over bound as long as any movement impairing effects have an impact in the game. A trait that makes your dodges give you a damage modifier. Along with damage. Its like a good trait on steroids for any other profession and im talking about bound not even dash.

Before the mad thieves attack, im saying the trait is overpowered, not that thief is. Though thief is in a far better state than any of you think.

Remove reveal on demand, make stealth more viable again and we can talk about nerfing dash. Once again, the hell do you do as thief to stay alive? Every time i ask this question, i always get same answer “dodge” since thief can’t take more than one hit. But here you are complaining that thief uses dodges and has counter to condi that otherwise would prevent them from using dodge. Honestly people, why do you not get it? Thief doesn’t have 28k HP, endure pain etc. to just stand there like training golem and take them beating in the face but this is exactly what you are asking for.

Frosty, i know why you ask for dash nerf. So you can do your mesmer combo wombo without any timing/counting dodges etc. This has nothing to do with balance.

Shatter and shield skills on mesmer are not good for the game, they should be removed. They render player being completely unable to do anything. See, i can do it too.

Or you use your signet to remove immob, or perhaps you play with the dodgeroll heal, or you teleport away with your shadowsteps which will likely make immob run out before they reach you again oooor…… Surprise: just dodge the immob to begin with. It can’t be that hard with a gazillion dodges, right?

Entenkommando.5208:

Or you use your signet to remove immob, or perhaps you play with the dodgeroll heal, or you teleport away with your shadowsteps which will likely make immob run out before they reach you again oooor…… Surprise: just dodge the immob to begin with. It can’t be that hard with a gazillion dodges, right?

Yep, here is prime example of a person that doesn’t play a thief but somehow thinks he is an expert. Thief does not have gazillion dodges. But they supposed to dodge everything somehow. Or blow really long CDs to deal with really short CD, yeah sure. You know immob is not only tool other classes have to keep someone in place. What else would you suggest?

P.S. just fyi, dodgeroll heal is called Withdraw and can’t be used when stunned/dazed which occurs a lot when you fight mesmer for example.

Cynz.9437:

Forsty.7968:

Skills like dash arent good for the game. Something that can remove any movement impairing condi on demand is stupidly overpowered and nullifies some things completely. Do you like playing against the DH survivability mechanic? Now imagine that without any unblockable skills. Fun and interactive right?

Please tell me more about how the 3 dodge endurance bar with your signet of agility arent enough dodges to remove an immob at any time. If you seriously think that you must be using your dodges very wisely.

Even if the trait would have a 10s icd on immob remove it would always still be picked over bound as long as any movement impairing effects have an impact in the game. A trait that makes your dodges give you a damage modifier. Along with damage. Its like a good trait on steroids for any other profession and im talking about bound not even dash.

Before the mad thieves attack, im saying the trait is overpowered, not that thief is. Though thief is in a far better state than any of you think.

Remove reveal on demand, make stealth more viable again and we can talk about nerfing dash. Once again, the hell do you do as thief to stay alive? Every time i ask this question, i always get same answer “dodge” since thief can’t take more than one hit. But here you are complaining that thief uses dodges and has counter to condi that otherwise would prevent them from using dodge. Honestly people, why do you not get it? Thief doesn’t have 28k HP, endure pain etc. to just stand there like training golem and take them beating in the face but this is exactly what you are asking for.

Frosty, i know why you ask for dash nerf. So you can do your mesmer combo wombo without any timing/counting dodges etc. This has nothing to do with balance.

Shatter and shield skills on mesmer are not good for the game, they should be removed. They render player being completely unable to do anything. See, i can do it too.

Except your argument makes no sense, all professions have access to cc and most have access to blocks as well. Im not asking for a dash nerf because i know there wont be one, im just saying dash is overpowered and not good for the game.

Reveal on demand? Stealth more viable again? None of what youre saying makes sense. You wont stand there like a training golem in the case of this nerf. Most of the time it wont even have an effect on the game at all since you barely ever get immobed twice in 10 seconds. And im not even considering every other way you have to move from immob.

I thought my extra sentences would stop triggered thief mains from responding but apparently its not enough if i say I DONT THINK THIEF IS OP.

Id like to add its funny how you think i want changes for my own benefit. Especially when i have so many problems counting those dodges and timing skills with the level i play on.

Cynz.9437:

Entenkommando.5208:

Or you use your signet to remove immob, or perhaps you play with the dodgeroll heal, or you teleport away with your shadowsteps which will likely make immob run out before they reach you again oooor…… Surprise: just dodge the immob to begin with. It can’t be that hard with a gazillion dodges, right?

Yep, here is prime example of a person that doesn’t play a thief but somehow thinks he is an expert. Thief does not have gazillion dodges. But they supposed to dodge everything somehow. Or blow really long CDs to deal with really short CD, yeah sure. You know immob is not only tool other classes have to keep someone in place. What else would you suggest?

P.S. just fyi, dodgeroll heal is called Withdraw and can’t be used when stunned/dazed which occurs a lot when you fight mesmer for example.

I did play thief a lot so put that right back where it belongs.
Hardly any class has access to immob on a big scale or on a short cd. Of course you should use your escape skills against counters like this. You just refuse to accept immobilize as a counter to movement. It’s like you aren’t even reading my post.
Basically every single immo applying skill which is normally used (and there aren’t many to begin with) is at least on a 20sec cd and some of them have massive tells that make evading rather easy like druid staff or guard hammer.
Signet of agility has a 30sec cd making it a very viable choice to deal with immobilize every now and then. It’s not like this condition is being spammed every 2 seconds.
This is very obviously supposed to be a well timed cc and should be rewarded against thief.

Also why would you talk about using withdraw when stunned? We are talking about immobilize here and you just bring random points to victimise thief.

E: another example of your misunderstanding: you talk about how immobilize is really punishing for core thief because you only have 2 dodges… That may be right so, but daredevil doesn’t have 2 dodges and has a lot more mobility. You are mixing things around in a way that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Oh cmon now necro really can’t be used as an argument there. Necs do t have any viable immobilize.
Warrior? What of it exactly? Pin down which is on a 25sec cd? Rifle which no-one uses? Bolas? Sword F1 for which he has to get close to you first?

You are basically saying because you are being countered by a chrono no other class should have a window of opportunity against you. How about simply accepting that there are counters for your class? Or do you see thief role in pvp as to 1v1 chronos?
Also show me the chrono that activates quickness just to catch a thief with their immobilize… You are getting g a bit silly here. And the illusion right next to you should be a rather easy tell if you are such an experienced thief.

You don’t get it. It’s now about how many classes have immobilize. It’s about how many classes actually use it in everyday pvp. You can have all the immob in the world if it’s placed on non viable weapon sets.

“thief is not countered by mes” then why is all your crying about how you wouldn’t have a chance against mesmers and everything they do kills you?

My logic is that you have one mechanic and one counter to it. Boon corrupt is the counter to boons. But you don’t have a counter to counter corrupts do you? Just like unblockable skills are the counter to blocks.
Dash however is a counter to your counter which makes the latter completely useless and not at all viable. Not all skills are unblockable, you can remove corrupted conditions but you can’t just keep stacking immob until a daredevil is out of dodges.
By your logic my DH would get a trait that makes unblockable skills get blocked by my blocks. Seems legit, right?

And of course dodges aren’t endless. But don’t act like you are the only class that has to think about what to dodge. There is a skill part in evaluating what you have to dodge and what not.

I claimed that immob spells have a long cd and you named exactly one actively used skill where its not the case… How convincing.

@Entenkommando.5208: because mes is good example for immob that is not on long CD.
There is counter to boon corrupts – blinds, blocks, dodges, invuls, interrupts etc.
There is counter to unblockable skills – interrupts, dodges, invuls.
Immob is not counter to thieves specifically, immob is a condition meant to keep target in place, whether it is for peeling or to set up damage. Same as block is mean to prevent damage for example.
Once again, who says that immob should be counter to drd or thief for that matter? I think thief has plenty of counters as it is. The whole thematic of drd traitline is mobility + staff. Please give me one good reason why traitline that supposed to improve thief’s mobility not offer solution for immobs? Why do eles take water for example? To deal with condis and have some heals.

Immob is very much viable, just not vs thieves running dash. Same as headshot + IP is very much viable, just not vs enemies with high stab/blind/blocks uptime.

You are not supposed to stack immobs until drd is out of dodges, you can kill them without immob lol. Look at DHs that has been countering thieves for years – they don’t use immob really and they can easily kill thief.

DH actually has invul, blinds and can dodge to avoid unblockable attack, fyi. So yes, they actually do have ways to deal with unblockable attacks.

Ofc thief isn’t only class that has to dodge but thief is only class in game that can’t facetank damage and actually have to actively avoid it.

And why should i not name leap/swap? Once again, your whole argument was based on fact that immob spells supposedly have long CDs. Which is not true in case of leap/swap that is also most commonly used immob in about every pvp match.

Since HOT (in particular) we have had the situation where you are either CCed to death or ignore it entirely (stability), and where you are rooted for years by a procing trait (which still apply twice as much imob as is listed) or just walk straight out of it without even noticing. Its a fight of measure vs countermeasure escalating to such degrees that if you don’t dedicate yourself entirely you risk being blown to smithereens (this goes for conditions/resistance/clears in general as well) which draws us to jack of all builds where the cost of specializing is too high.

Take for example the engineers rifle. This i would argue is a pretty well designed weapon for the engineer. Limited range capability with lots of single target control and some burst at the cost of risk (range/setup) using the previously mentioned control skills. It doesn’t evade while doing jumpshot (which is fine, removing the risk in the risk is bad) and its overcharge shot knocks you back as well (creating synergy with stun breaks and stability if you want to take this further) which is also a risk to consider in a teamfight. But that used to be fine.

So why do we not see rifle used much? Before you say hammer which i agree is a big factor it is also due to that it cant reliably function anymore against a lot of classes.

A lot of the time you are more likely to reflect a netshot (or heaven forbid overcharge) on yourself than you are to hit an enemy. And if you hit an enemy with netshot, they might just ignore it altogether or shrug it off (and applying immobilize is all the skill does). So then we have overcharge shot which might just trigger an autostunbreak with the net result that you CCed yourself and gave the enemy a buff. Or they manually stubreak. Consider also that we have stunbreaks with equal or shorter recharge than overcharged shot. And with the cast time of jumpshot you will frequently be blinded etc before you land. So that leaves blunderbuss which have a very short cast and decent damage.

So now we say “bring more Ckittenil he cant keep up with his stab/stunbreaks!” or “just spam more damage he cant evade/ignore/block/invuln everything, surely there is a frame where hes vulnerable!”. But thats the point. Then we end up with spam of everything.

This went a bit off the rails but to sum it up all elite specs and possibly some decisions before that ended up where you have a frustrating mess of throwing skills at the enemy to see what sticks. And that goes for immobilize as well.

That is why i said: make stealth more viable as survival tool (sup aoe spam, sup reveals) and there wouldn’t be issue nerfing dash.

Honestly I probably wouldn’t have a problem giving thief a bit more stealth.
When stealthed they don’t cap points.
They can run away already so I don’t care if they do it while stealthed or while being visible
Stealth is also predictable to a certain degree because if you know the class you also got a general idea of when the stealth attack will approximately hit.
Giving thief more access to stealth makes revealed a much more skillful to use counter which, let’s be honest, at the moment it really isn’t.

Entenkommando.5208:

Honestly I probably wouldn’t have a problem giving thief a bit more stealth.
When stealthed they don’t cap points.
They can run away already so I don’t care if they do it while stealthed or while being visible
Stealth is also predictable to a certain degree because if you know the class you also got a general idea of when the stealth attack will approximately hit.
Giving thief more access to stealth makes revealed a much more skillful to use counter which, let’s be honest, at the moment it really isn’t.

Giving more stealth won’t make it more viable otherwise trap thief would be a thing…. the whole reason why SA is not a thing anymore is because reveal and aoe was handled like candy to every class (dh traps, mes wells, engi hammer, druid avatar just to name few, ranger/dh/necro/engi/rev/war have access to reveal, some of them are meta – it is just crazyyyyy). If those were reduced and reveal on demand mechanics were changed/removed from some spells (e.g. target doesn’t get revealed but just gets a marked while remaining stealthed so they could still profit from stealth traits like SE) then stealth would be more a viable option. Reveals/aoe vs stealth as they are atm are just 100% hardcounter, there is nothing in between so no amount of stealth would help.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed
If this is all the candy you get your parents really don’t like you :/
Spear of justice and Detection Pulse are basically the only actively used skills/trait in that list.
I agree however that the passive AoE spam has gotten a lot worse since HoT and I’ve been against it from the very beginning.

Entenkommando.5208:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed
If this is all the candy you get your parents really don’t like you :/
Spear of justice and Detection Pulse are basically the only actively used skills/trait in that list.
I agree however that the passive AoE spam has gotten a lot worse since HoT and I’ve been against it from the very beginning.

You forgot revs… despite to change to mallyx a lot of revs still run glint.

I really wish steal would disable defensive traits and class mechanics for 6 sec on successful hit just so people would understand the problem with reveals on demand.

Rev alone were the reason why i stopped playing core on main account after season 1 – 6 sec reveal with 2 dodges = you are 100% dead (yeah sure, you should dodge reveal but so about 38403804802384 other spells, especially aoe, that can send you to spawn). It is a team game, if enemy team sees you, they will kill you. Reveal on demand should have never been a thing, they simply chose the lazy way for implementing it instead of adding new mechanic that would add some counterplay to stealth instead of hardcounter/shutdown to entire traitline.

Whoever thinks thief needs a nerf, yer a …. …. (try and figure out what the dots mean).

Maining mesmer. Heard the cry over thief a few thousand times now. You could fill an ocean with salty tears. Thief is finally somewhat near the design it should be.

Dash doesn’t have ‘OP’ issues, you just don’t know how to handle it. As a mesmer, thief is probably one of the classes you should be scared about, yet, I do not cry about it. It’s a l2p issue really.

Pyriall.1683:

Magnito.6187:

Pyriall.1683:

Cynz.9437:

Entenkommando.5208:

Honestly I probably wouldn’t have a problem giving thief a bit more stealth.
When stealthed they don’t cap points.
They can run away already so I don’t care if they do it while stealthed or while being visible
Stealth is also predictable to a certain degree because if you know the class you also got a general idea of when the stealth attack will approximately hit.
Giving thief more access to stealth makes revealed a much more skillful to use counter which, let’s be honest, at the moment it really isn’t.

Giving more stealth won’t make it more viable otherwise trap thief would be a thing…. the whole reason why SA is not a thing anymore is because reveal and aoe was handled like candy to every class (dh traps, mes wells, engi hammer, druid avatar just to name few, ranger/dh/necro/engi/rev/war have access to reveal, some of them are meta – it is just crazyyyyy). If those were reduced and reveal on demand mechanics were changed/removed from some spells (e.g. target doesn’t get revealed but just gets a marked while remaining stealthed so they could still profit from stealth traits like SE) then stealth would be more a viable option. Reveals/aoe vs stealth as they are atm are just 100% hardcounter, there is nothing in between so no amount of stealth would help.

This guy just throws words together in hopes of it making a point. You can’t even read through the sheer bias of his posts without rolling your eyes.

Even tho he (mains?) thief (biased) and I don’t (mesmer – not biased) I agree with him.
Thief is fine. Dash being able to break out of soft cc is exactly the point of running a thief. You want to be quickly in and out fights, from one point to another.

Take that away and you’ll take the role thief has away. Simple as that. If a thief doesn’t have an escape, he’s a sitting duck.

So by that logic, thieves that don’t use dash shouldn’t exist. Guess what? They do. So stop with the, “you’ll take the role thief has away” nonsense. They would still have the best mobility in the game and multiple ways to address immobilizes.

My perspective is not limited to a small amount of games on some professions.

Are you suggesting mine is? To be clear, neither is mine. Played since release, with a well balanced amount of games spread over the classes. With most of them on mesmer, obviously, otherwise it wouldn’t be my main.

That being said, name me one other meta build without dash that got used by thief since the release of HoT. (and nope, staff thief wasn’t meta)

The only thing that could make your arguments valid, is that when daredevil gets a nerf like that, everything else recieves a nerf as well. ONLY THEN a thief has enough mobility. Because back before HoT, you didn’t have all the power creep and aoe spam.

Back then thief had enough mobility compared to all the other classes. If you’d try that right now, there we are again, a sitting duck. If you struggle against a thief BECAUSE HE CAN CLEANSE IMMOB WITH DASH → l2p. Please.

I gotta say, it feels really bad to use your 25s cooldown 2s immobilize and have it just broken instantly by a thief or warrior with a dodge or movement skill. It’s like .. why do I even bother?

The immobs were mosty designed back when the game launched and you had to use a condi cleanse to get out, or else wait the full duration (and they aren’t very long).

coro.3176:

I gotta say, it feels really bad to use your 25s cooldown 2s immobilize and have it just broken instantly by a thief or warrior with a dodge or movement skill. It’s like .. why do I even bother?

The immobs were mosty designed back when the game launched and you had to use a condi cleanse to get out, or else wait the full duration (and they aren’t very long).

Yeah and where a necro would save his poison field for a low warrior.
With other words → does not exist anymore. Less interactive play, less counterplay.

If you want to talk how a design failed, can’t you see there’s more that has to be fixed?
I don’t get ya’ll. Silly willy’s.

Magnito.6187:

coro.3176:

I gotta say, it feels really bad to use your 25s cooldown 2s immobilize and have it just broken instantly by a thief or warrior with a dodge or movement skill. It’s like .. why do I even bother?

The immobs were mosty designed back when the game launched and you had to use a condi cleanse to get out, or else wait the full duration (and they aren’t very long).

Yeah and where a necro would save his poison field for a low warrior.
With other words -> does not exist anymore. Less interactive play, less counterplay.

If you want to talk how a design failed, can’t you see there’s more that has to be fixed?
I don’t get ya’ll. Silly willy’s.

Hold on….because many things in this game are broken we aren’t allowed to ask for a start somewhere?

Magnito.6187:

Pyriall.1683:

Magnito.6187:

Pyriall.1683:

Cynz.9437:

Entenkommando.5208:

Honestly I probably wouldn’t have a problem giving thief a bit more stealth.
When stealthed they don’t cap points.
They can run away already so I don’t care if they do it while stealthed or while being visible
Stealth is also predictable to a certain degree because if you know the class you also got a general idea of when the stealth attack will approximately hit.
Giving thief more access to stealth makes revealed a much more skillful to use counter which, let’s be honest, at the moment it really isn’t.

Giving more stealth won’t make it more viable otherwise trap thief would be a thing…. the whole reason why SA is not a thing anymore is because reveal and aoe was handled like candy to every class (dh traps, mes wells, engi hammer, druid avatar just to name few, ranger/dh/necro/engi/rev/war have access to reveal, some of them are meta – it is just crazyyyyy). If those were reduced and reveal on demand mechanics were changed/removed from some spells (e.g. target doesn’t get revealed but just gets a marked while remaining stealthed so they could still profit from stealth traits like SE) then stealth would be more a viable option. Reveals/aoe vs stealth as they are atm are just 100% hardcounter, there is nothing in between so no amount of stealth would help.

This guy just throws words together in hopes of it making a point. You can’t even read through the sheer bias of his posts without rolling your eyes.

Even tho he (mains?) thief (biased) and I don’t (mesmer – not biased) I agree with him.
Thief is fine. Dash being able to break out of soft cc is exactly the point of running a thief. You want to be quickly in and out fights, from one point to another.

Take that away and you’ll take the role thief has away. Simple as that. If a thief doesn’t have an escape, he’s a sitting duck.

So by that logic, thieves that don’t use dash shouldn’t exist. Guess what? They do. So stop with the, “you’ll take the role thief has away” nonsense. They would still have the best mobility in the game and multiple ways to address immobilizes.

My perspective is not limited to a small amount of games on some professions.

Are you suggesting mine is? To be clear, neither is mine. Played since release, with a well balanced amount of games spread over the classes. With most of them on mesmer, obviously, otherwise it wouldn’t be my main.

That being said, name me one other meta build without dash that got used by thief since the release of HoT. (and nope, staff thief wasn’t meta)

The only thing that could make your arguments valid, is that when daredevil gets a nerf like that, everything else recieves a nerf as well. ONLY THEN a thief has enough mobility. Because back before HoT, you didn’t have all the power creep and aoe spam.

Back then thief had enough mobility compared to all the other classes. If you’d try that right now, there we are again, a sitting duck. If you struggle against a thief BECAUSE HE CAN CLEANSE IMMOB WITH DASH -> l2p. Please.

Your myopic view on how the game should be played is what stagnates it. The ability is not healthy for the game as a whole. Neither are abilities I would define as being over budget or bloated.

The fact that a single trait can render whole builds useless is a problem. ANY ability that completely negates builds should be looked at in depth and adjustments should be made.

Pyriall.1683:

Magnito.6187:

Pyriall.1683:

Magnito.6187:

Pyriall.1683:

Cynz.9437:

Entenkommando.5208:

Honestly I probably wouldn’t have a problem giving thief a bit more stealth.
When stealthed they don’t cap points.
They can run away already so I don’t care if they do it while stealthed or while being visible
Stealth is also predictable to a certain degree because if you know the class you also got a general idea of when the stealth attack will approximately hit.
Giving thief more access to stealth makes revealed a much more skillful to use counter which, let’s be honest, at the moment it really isn’t.

Giving more stealth won’t make it more viable otherwise trap thief would be a thing…. the whole reason why SA is not a thing anymore is because reveal and aoe was handled like candy to every class (dh traps, mes wells, engi hammer, druid avatar just to name few, ranger/dh/necro/engi/rev/war have access to reveal, some of them are meta – it is just crazyyyyy). If those were reduced and reveal on demand mechanics were changed/removed from some spells (e.g. target doesn’t get revealed but just gets a marked while remaining stealthed so they could still profit from stealth traits like SE) then stealth would be more a viable option. Reveals/aoe vs stealth as they are atm are just 100% hardcounter, there is nothing in between so no amount of stealth would help.

This guy just throws words together in hopes of it making a point. You can’t even read through the sheer bias of his posts without rolling your eyes.

Even tho he (mains?) thief (biased) and I don’t (mesmer – not biased) I agree with him.
Thief is fine. Dash being able to break out of soft cc is exactly the point of running a thief. You want to be quickly in and out fights, from one point to another.

Take that away and you’ll take the role thief has away. Simple as that. If a thief doesn’t have an escape, he’s a sitting duck.

So by that logic, thieves that don’t use dash shouldn’t exist. Guess what? They do. So stop with the, “you’ll take the role thief has away” nonsense. They would still have the best mobility in the game and multiple ways to address immobilizes.

My perspective is not limited to a small amount of games on some professions.

Are you suggesting mine is? To be clear, neither is mine. Played since release, with a well balanced amount of games spread over the classes. With most of them on mesmer, obviously, otherwise it wouldn’t be my main.

That being said, name me one other meta build without dash that got used by thief since the release of HoT. (and nope, staff thief wasn’t meta)

The only thing that could make your arguments valid, is that when daredevil gets a nerf like that, everything else recieves a nerf as well. ONLY THEN a thief has enough mobility. Because back before HoT, you didn’t have all the power creep and aoe spam.

Back then thief had enough mobility compared to all the other classes. If you’d try that right now, there we are again, a sitting duck. If you struggle against a thief BECAUSE HE CAN CLEANSE IMMOB WITH DASH -> l2p. Please.

Your myopic view on how the game should be played is what stagnates it. The ability is not healthy for the game as a whole. Neither are abilities I would define as being over budget or bloated.

The fact that a single trait can render whole builds useless is a problem. ANY ability that completely negates builds should be looked at in depth and adjustments should be made.

And yet here we have reveal on multiple spells that delete entire traitline and class mechanics and i don’t see you on the fences asking for revealed nerfs.

And which exactly build does dash render useless?

Entenkommando.5208:

Hold on….because many things in this game are broken we aren’t allowed to ask for a start somewhere?

All i saw so far is “nerf teef plox cuz he runs away”, i have yet to see any suggestion from you regarding other classes that would make dash nerf reasonable.