Guild Wars 2

Evade frames are not fun to deal with, why?

1.) You have to resort to AoE to hit most classes (such as Mesmers and Rangers, not even gonna bother with S/D or Short Bow because at least those are fair) who resort to brain dead easy evades.
2.) AoE isn’t getting nerfed mainly due to anti-fun garbage such as this. If you nerf AoE, you are INDIRECTLY buffing evade frames.
3.) Endurance dodges are way too safe and way too abundant. It is IMPOSSIBLE to count dodges vs. certain classes (Engi with adventure runes, Mesmer, Warrior with building momentum, Bunker Guardian). I don’t understand why not nerf energy sigils when Quickness got nerfed. The logic just boggles me.

Multiple stun breaks are not fun to deal with, why?

1.) Focus fire doesn’t help vs. classes who are allowed to have both up time (Healing Signet, Old Triple Cantrips Ele, Mesmer generally, Bunker Engi vs. certain match-ups) and a million “I messed up” buttons.
2.) Imagine if you’re allowed to have 2 flash summoner spells in league of legends, annoying right? GW2 allows this for the “damage pool” that it has which is… a little below average and not enough to “burst” someone out of position. At least league has a reasonable damage pool, punishes bad habits such as depending on nine lives mechanics, and promotes burst and smart play.
3.) A way to deal with a class with multiple stun breaks and high up-time was through burst. But what did ANET do? They nerfed Quickness.

Power builds are not as rewarding, borderline fun, to play anymore compared to before, why?
1.) Weakness (Why the hell is this a 50% damage reduction? The logic behind this fails)
2.) Protection
3.) Vigor
4.) ANET failed to address how the 3 boons could potentially make power builds frustrating to play after the Quickness nerf. Even with Quickness, power builds WERE punishable.

TL;DR I think GW2 is not fun anymore compared to before because the devs are promoting “nine-lives mechanics” which is pretty much playing a fighting game, as an example, for a “time-out” instead of actually killing people.

Feel free to disagree with me and keep it clean.

I completely agree. I started out with power builds and I have to resort to having a build that I can survive as long as possible dealing low burst and killing gradually over time. Its just not feasible having a power build imo.

I’ll put more League references. GW2 is a game where everyone is pretty much supposed to be Nasus..

The main issue combat-wise has always been that the extremes are way too strong.

This was probably done to make combat very fast paced as advertised, but they didn’t realize that not only do you eliminate one of the main aspects of good pvp, which is the back and forth between opponents and the looking and waiting for openings, but you also create an environment where in order to counter one extreme you need to buff the other and vice versa.

Combat in MMOs is not as fast paced, not because players are slower at reacting than in fighting games, but because the slower pace opens up a myriad of possibilities in terms of class synergy and smart play.

The secret to good team pvp lies in creating team oriented combat where killing the opponent is not a result of them making a single mistake, but rather the result of your team making things come together perfectly.

Giving every single class as much self sufficiency as they do have in gw2 and allowing them to avoid or escape 80% of the damage, means you need to design the classes in a way that landing 20% of your damage will kill the target. Yet if 20% of your attacks are enough to kill a target, we obviously must also allow them to escape the majority of them or fights would be decided by who executes the first strike.

“looking and waiting for openings”

Man. I wonder where that went to because around 9 months ago I’ve been doing this. But compared to now?

Block <—> There are unblockable attacks in game
Dodge <—> Weakness is suppose to be the counter, but I don’t feel it works well
Evade <—> Nothing exists in game that counters evade frames found on skills
Protection <—> Boon strip

Evade is powerful because there is no counter. I don’t expect this to ever change, spamming and passive gameplay is encouraged in gw2. When you compare Evade to the protection boon, evade comes out on top. It has a much lower downtime, much more consistency and has absolutely not counter available.

It used to be fun to be bursty glass. Now everything has so much survivability with sustain damage there’s almost no point.

Aza.2105:

Block <—> There are unblockable attacks in game
Dodge <—> Weakness is suppose to be the counter, but I don’t feel it works well
Evade <—> Nothing exists in game that counters evade frames found on skills
Protection <—> Boon strip

Evade is powerful because there is no counter. I don’t expect this to ever change, spamming and passive gameplay is encouraged in gw2. When you compare Evade to the protection boon, evade comes out on top. It has a much lower downtime, much more consistency and has absolutely not counter available.

There are multiple things that can’t be evaded. Off the top of my head:

• Xxx of warding
• Static field
• Shocking aura
  • All auras for that matter
• Retaliation
• Mesmer clone death conditions
• Nightmare rune fear

There’s probably some others too, but evade is by no means uncounterable.

Amir.1570:

TL;DR I think GW2 is not fun anymore compared to before because the devs are promoting “nine-lives mechanics” which is pretty much playing a fighting game, as an example, for a “time-out” instead of actually killing people.

Feel free to disagree with me and keep it clean.

No way to disagree man, you are just right. Fact is that most of ppl interested in pvp quit the game, so Anet is trying to push ppl from pve to pvp, and seems like they are trying to make pvp more similar to openworld pve (= a skill spam).

The classes with which i had most fun where mesmer(shatter), ele burst, and power necro. Sadly all of these choises are not encouraged in pvp cause of the actual bunk & spam meta.
The sad truth is that this state cannot be fixed easily, cause it would require a major rework of the whole skill and trait system, and this would be too expensive to their eyes, and not worth it, or at least, not anytime soon. As long as Pve keep providing them money its all good.
The only thing i can suggest you is not to think to this pvp as something competitive, just build your class in a way to fit the meta, join the spam and have some laughs at ppl facerolling on their keyboard.

I’d like to see what the devs has to say about this matter. Mostly requests Powerr and Grouch’s insight.

Is weakness only a 50% reduction? Doesn’t it make so half your attacks fumble and therefore cannot crit as well? So you essentially lose half of your crit chance as well which is completely crippling for berserker builds (why they nerfed necro weakness). It is basically another condition that is a must cleanse or run from

Weakness reduces both critical damage and normal damage by 50% at a 50% chance. Key word is, 50% reduction at a 50% chance. Seriously way out of reason.

Bump. If anyone think what I wrote isn’t whats causing anti-fun, then what is? Tell me.

You’re complaining about things like weakness and protection…

So you would rather these be removed from the game? So where then is the counter-play? Leagues also has anti-crit masteries and “shields”

and 2 flashes? kinda like ezreal or kass and more?

I think you’re missing the big picture. Anet tries to balance these things on both the grander field of play as well as profession-based.

Stun breakers are apart of the game. They just so happened to be most abundant in the classes that also have the most hard CC such as warriors.

I’m not really sure what the issue is if we’re just looking at the boons/condi’s themselves. The rate at which they are given is supposed to be in accordance to what the profession lacks. So figuring out what the profession lacks and not just what they have access to is important.

@TheDevice
Two flash summoner spells on ANY champ. That’s what I meant. Also, anti-crit masteries in league of legends don’t even scale as hard as protection or weakness. Do the math.

Also, weakness and protection can stay but 33% and 50% damage reduction on crits and non-crits is pushing it. The values need to be 30% for protection and 10% reduction for ALL hits when talking about weakness because it already halves endurance gain.

No one enjoys time-out games. People actually want to kill each other and this game isn’t promoting aggressive play enough mainly possibly because of the list that I posted.

Amir.1570:

Weakness reduces both critical damage and normal damage by 50% at a 50% chance. Key word is, 50% reduction at a 50% chance. Seriously way out of reason.

Last I had heard, weakness actually gave a hit that would be a crit a 50% chance to fumble, only doing 1/2 the damage of a regular attack (so instead of 1.5+crit chance times a normal attack, you do 0.5 times a normal attack). This is a more than 50% reduction on the expected dps for higher crit-chance builds (bursty).

This was one of the reasons we got into a condi meta, because the counter to burst was so effective.

our vigor was already nerfed, dude. what more do you want?

wrong thread

Spvp promotes playstyles and builds where you don’t have to use your brain to win, thats what isn’t fun.

you use your brain to hold a glass of water.

When you say “power” builds, do you mean builds that you jump in, do your number and die? Yea those will never come back not even if anet nerfed protection and reduced Weakness uptime. This is not because those builds suck but because people have gotten smarter and the game has moved on from that equally brainless level of play.

If you want to play a burst build you have to think like a Warrior, a Thief or Meditation Guardian. Mobility, Escapability or Sustainability don’t have one of those? Good riddance.

The game has evolved, it’s time burst builds evolved with it.

I cry a little everytime someone simply evades out my frozen ground or any AOE’s. Seriously, if they’re rolling across a ground in flames they should still take some damage, and still be slowed on frost fields.

But the same can be said for any crit build. Any burst now is more risky due to increased uptime. Ever try to burst a warrior recently with their high amounts of invulnerability or a guardian that keeps blocking?

The game evolved ? compared to “the burst meta” ?
Its like saying that if tomorrow we will turn into one-celled organism we evolved and its time to adapt to our new lives. lol.
Burst meta required many steps of coordination (ex. picking the target, count down to burst togheter, 3.2.1 – combo cc on it, vulnerability stack and shatter/backstab/100b)
Now its more like everyone looks at which skills are not on CD and press those buttons untill somone fall down.

You know what really isn’t fun? Moa Morph/Polymorph Moa. That skill needs to go away.

Even as a mesmer, I don’t use that skill. I hate it soo much….

Wait, what were we talking about again?

cuge.5398:

The game evolved ? compared to “the burst meta” ?
Its like saying that if tomorrow we will turn into one-celled organism we evolved and its time to adapt to our new lives. lol.
Burst meta required many steps of coordination (ex. picking the target, count down to burst togheter, 3.2.1 – combo cc on it, vulnerability stack and shatter/backstab/100b)
Now its more like everyone looks at which skills are not on CD and press those buttons untill somone fall down.

The problem with the “burst meta” was that the spike damage of a single class was/is way too high. Sure, there was the possibility for a little more coordinated play, but not only didn’t it take any more than two people coordinating and often times only one player unloading their burst, it also made combat feel very front loaded.

If you got hit by a spike, you were pretty much forced to use all your tools to escape, rather than being able to counter attack and go of the offensive, because there were a lot more glass cannons in the meta.

Nilkemia.8507:

You know what really isn’t fun? Moa Morph/Polymorph Moa. That skill needs to go away.

Even as a mesmer, I don’t use that skill. I hate it soo much….

Wait, what were we talking about again?

Moa is by far the stupidest elite. It’s the equivalent to a turning someone into jello and beating them to death. Mesmers have so many evades and conditions do they really need an elite that prevent opponents from fighting back? Get moa’d and die. It never used to be so bad getting moa’d but now that everyone rolls condition builds its almost impossible to survive it.

You have lost me when you stated that S/D and shortbow are “fair” (which is simply not true, that spec will either be broken or useless, there is no in-between. It needs to be completely removed from the game), yet complained about mesmer evades and mesmers in general.

I mean seriously? Complaining about mesmers at this point in time? You must be seriously bad if you feel mesmers are too strong in tPvP right now lol.

But as to the rest of the topic: yes, power based builds are too punishing at the moment. They need to either be more rewarding (leading to power creep and one shot builds) or condition specs need to be more punishing (killing the purpose of condition specs).

The problem with power builds is that most with the exception of a few builds, are single target dps. The exception being HGH and Hammer warrior. The range on power builds is useless compared to aoe condition spam. Why would anyone roll a power build with it’s unforgiving mechanics when a condi spec on the same class yields higher damage and is much more mistake friendly. If power/crit builds could apply the same amount of pressure as a condition spec in a team fight we would see many more power builds. Power builds only seem to be good for 1v1’s.

Slim.3024:

cuge.5398:

The game evolved ? compared to “the burst meta” ?
Its like saying that if tomorrow we will turn into one-celled organism we evolved and its time to adapt to our new lives. lol.
Burst meta required many steps of coordination (ex. picking the target, count down to burst togheter, 3.2.1 – combo cc on it, vulnerability stack and shatter/backstab/100b)
Now its more like everyone looks at which skills are not on CD and press those buttons untill somone fall down.

The problem with the “burst meta” was that the spike damage of a single class was/is way too high. Sure, there was the possibility for a little more coordinated play, but not only didn’t it take any more than two people coordinating and often times only one player unloading their burst, it also made combat feel very front loaded.

If you got hit by a spike, you were pretty much forced to use all your tools to escape, rather than being able to counter attack and go of the offensive, because there were a lot more glass cannons in the meta.

Ok, i agree with the fact that even that meta wasnt perfect, cause you are right saying that the spike dmg of 1 single class was too high, cause it was enough to bring somone’s hp down by 70%-90%. Even if i would say that such an high burst could be understandable if it was dished out by a true glass cannon: with little survivability and little control, so that he had to rely on his team in order to make his damage spike effective.
One of the problem with gw2 is that everyone has everything, and when a class has not enough of everything its not good anymore :| ….. which is crazy.
Since this is a Role Play Game, we are supposed to have roles, even during the fight, but now what we have is a blurred mix of every roles spread on every profession, which makes things messy and spammy.

Dirame.8521:

When you say “power” builds, do you mean builds that you jump in, do your number and die? Yea those will never come back not even if anet nerfed protection and reduced Weakness uptime. This is not because those builds suck but because people have gotten smarter and the game has moved on from that equally brainless level of play.

If you want to play a burst build you have to think like a Warrior, a Thief or Meditation Guardian. Mobility, Escapability or Sustainability don’t have one of those? Good riddance.

The game has evolved, it’s time burst builds evolved with it.

Sorry this is where you are wrong. The burst meta was the most fun phase of GW2 because you had to calculate by yourself OR as a team to kill someone.

If you were bad back then, you actually had to push to progress. Nowadays if you were at a low skill level? Just abuse multiple stun breaks, defensive mechanics, and boons.

Do you know why people are saying this meta is full of brainless builds? Because they put way too much training weights and allowed the meta classes to have nine-lives.

NO ONE wants to play a time-out game where you use time vs. your opponents instead of shear calculation and aggression. No one.

Silferas.3841:

You have lost me when you stated that S/D and shortbow are “fair” (which is simply not true, that spec will either be broken or useless, there is no in-between. It needs to be completely removed from the game), yet complained about mesmer evades and mesmers in general.

I mean seriously? Complaining about mesmers at this point in time? You must be seriously bad if you feel mesmers are too strong in tPvP right now lol.

But as to the rest of the topic: yes, power based builds are too punishing at the moment. They need to either be more rewarding (leading to power creep and one shot builds) or condition specs need to be more punishing (killing the purpose of condition specs).

The difference between Thief and Mesmer is that when a Mesmer is bursting people down, Mesmers have invulnerability or berserker stance, balanced stance, and endure pain. DO NOT even get me started on how Mesmer also cleaves and deal AoE damage while they spam invulnerability frames. In reality, the people who are saying Mesmer takes more skill than Thief is just delusional. When a Thief is spamming evades at least he isn’t doing the damage out-put that a mesmer has when the Thief is spamming evades.

But please stay on topic and leave it at this. I will not respond anymore to people who are saying “Mesmer takes skill” because in reality, they don’t. If you’re up to argue then go ahead and PM me.

I understand what you’re saying but I still don’t get why you’re complaining. Mesmers have the most insane form of “time-out” play since forever and thieves entire profession is formulated around that concept.

And then there’s the argument that it has evolved to brainless strategy but when you say things like It was harder to just 123 count on a target and burst them down then you lost me.

I main a necromancer and It’s probably the most difficult class to play successfully imo (of course) and that’s because it’s the least mobile. Warriors have always (even in it’s terribad days) have had great mobility. This allows them to engage and disengage, just like thieves mesmers and engis.. and ele’s.. and guardians lol. But I also of course am going to defend weakness because it’s one of our only forms of defense as are most defensive conditions. And I’m most definitely going to defend stun-breakers because that’s the only thing that might really save us from heavy focus-fire.

So idk man. You’re saying the numbers on weakness and protection need reworking (possible) and that people need less stun beakers. You also haven’t acknowledged that leagues also has attack speed debuffs and long-period blinds. Actually gw2 has no form of attack speed reduction but just the opposite. I mean if you want to play leagues then play leagues lol

Mesmers right now have very little risk or um tact required to play. So I’ll give ya that but. Engineers are pretty imbalanced imo I cant really think of anything they lack.. like a con in weighing their pros and cons. Engineers have access to just about everything.

I do believe that the game is attempting to evolve from the burst meta but is going through some growing pains. Bursting onto a single target just because they were out of position isnt that exciting or showing some extreme sense of tact or strategy. Engaging on one target to burst them down is like the invert form of stacking in one place vs a dungeon boss XD. Yeah sure it takes some coordination but is not that complex. Doesn’t require much brain at all.

Amir.1570:

Silferas.3841:

You have lost me when you stated that S/D and shortbow are “fair” (which is simply not true, that spec will either be broken or useless, there is no in-between. It needs to be completely removed from the game), yet complained about mesmer evades and mesmers in general.

I mean seriously? Complaining about mesmers at this point in time? You must be seriously bad if you feel mesmers are too strong in tPvP right now lol.

But as to the rest of the topic: yes, power based builds are too punishing at the moment. They need to either be more rewarding (leading to power creep and one shot builds) or condition specs need to be more punishing (killing the purpose of condition specs).

The difference between Thief and Mesmer is that when a Mesmer is bursting people down, Mesmers have invulnerability or berserker stance, balanced stance, and endure pain. DO NOT even get me started on how Mesmer also cleaves and deal AoE damage while they spam invulnerability frames. In reality, the people who are saying Mesmer takes more skill than Thief is just delusional. When a Thief is spamming evades at least he isn’t doing the damage out-put that a mesmer has when the Thief is spamming evades.

But please stay on topic and leave it at this. I will not respond anymore to people who are saying “Mesmer takes skill” because in reality, they don’t. If you’re up to argue then go ahead and PM me.

Erm… I assume you’re talking about Blurred Frenzy (which is not an invuln its an evade – retal, procs from nightmare etc go through it)? Or are you talking about Distortion? Hitting a Blurred and damage is pretty difficult as it roots you to the floor, you may say “Ah! but sword comes with an immob” try using that immob… If you’re talking about Distortion it has a 45sec CD and require us to sacrifice our resource to use it.

You then claim that thief SBow isn’t a problem… Its the worst offender in the game at evade frames on weapon skills. You have just lost credibility completely. Rethink your argument with thief skills included and maybe someone will listen to you.

My apologies but take the time to compare the damage of Thief short bow 3 or larcenous strike to Mesmer shatter + blurred frenzy. Hell even dodge > F1 on Mesmer is even dumber than short bow 3 or larcenous strike, granted that you know how to count dodges. Don’t get me started on how Mesmers have perma vigor AND cleave better than Thieves because when a Thief is cluster bombing, he isn’t evading and is punishable

I’m not going to explain on why Thief actually takes more skill AND is more reasonable evade frame-wise than Mesmers in this thread. My point on my first post is that mechanics that classes such as Mesmers, Warriors, Old Cantrips Ele apparently “have to abuse” promote time-out matches.

Again, stay on topic. If you really want to discuss this further then PM me. This topic is about how anti-fun “time-out” BS makes this game not so fun.

Amir.1570:

My apologies but take the time to compare the damage of Thief short bow 3 or larcenous strike to Mesmer shatter + blurred frenzy. Hell even dodge > F1 on Mesmer is even dumber than short bow 3 or larcenous strike, granted that you know how to count dodges. Don’t get me started on how Mesmers have perma vigor AND cleave better than Thieves because when a Thief is cluster bombing, he isn’t evading and is punishable

I’m not going to explain on why Thief actually takes more skill AND is more reasonable evade frame-wise than Mesmers in this thread. My point on my first post is that mechanics that classes such as Mesmers, Warriors, Old Cantrips Ele apparently “have to abuse” promote time-out matches.

Again, stay on topic. If you really want to discuss this further then PM me. This topic is about how anti-fun “time-out” BS makes this game not so fun.

But thats the point, no other weapon in game gives as much on demand time out as Thief SBow… If you aren’t willing to accept that you need to go back and think again.

Coulter.2315:

Amir.1570:

My apologies but take the time to compare the damage of Thief short bow 3 or larcenous strike to Mesmer shatter + blurred frenzy. Hell even dodge > F1 on Mesmer is even dumber than short bow 3 or larcenous strike, granted that you know how to count dodges. Don’t get me started on how Mesmers have perma vigor AND cleave better than Thieves because when a Thief is cluster bombing, he isn’t evading and is punishable

I’m not going to explain on why Thief actually takes more skill AND is more reasonable evade frame-wise than Mesmers in this thread. My point on my first post is that mechanics that classes such as Mesmers, Warriors, Old Cantrips Ele apparently “have to abuse” promote time-out matches.

Again, stay on topic. If you really want to discuss this further then PM me. This topic is about how anti-fun “time-out” BS makes this game not so fun.

But thats the point, no other weapon in game gives as much on demand time out as Thief SBow… If you aren’t willing to accept that you need to go back and think again.

Honestly, Mesmer isn’t the only class who can do what I was talking about. I merely stated Mesmer as an example. You would be pretty mad if you were to fight something similar lets say.. a Warrior with Lyssa, Endure Pain, and Berserker Stance. That’s my point.

I don’t understand what you’re saying, I’m saying Thief SBow allows them to escape and evade whatever they choose at will. You seem to have an issue with a 2sec root with a 9.5-12sec recharge. If you have a problem with skills which allow the other player to avoid too much then Thief SBow and Feline Grace should be at the top of your list – but instead at the start you say they are fine O_o

Coulter.2315:

I don’t understand what you’re saying, I’m saying Thief SBow allows them to escape and evade whatever they choose at will. You seem to have an issue with a 2sec root with a 9.5-12sec recharge. If you have a problem with skills which allow the other player to avoid too much then Thief SBow and Feline Grace should be at the top of your list – but instead at the start you say they are fine O_o

There’s a reason why thief’s SB 3 is only used very, very rarely. But you quite obviously have yet to use the skill.

Arganthium.5638:

Coulter.2315:

I don’t understand what you’re saying, I’m saying Thief SBow allows them to escape and evade whatever they choose at will. You seem to have an issue with a 2sec root with a 9.5-12sec recharge. If you have a problem with skills which allow the other player to avoid too much then Thief SBow and Feline Grace should be at the top of your list – but instead at the start you say they are fine O_o

There’s a reason why thief’s SB 3 is only used very, very rarely. But you quite obviously have yet to use the skill.

You’re totally right i never see them use it 3 time in a row.. Oh wait thats kitten.

Amir.1570:

The difference between Thief and Mesmer is that when a Mesmer is bursting people down, Mesmers have invulnerability or berserker stance, balanced stance, and endure pain.

DO NOT even get me started on how Mesmer also cleaves and deal AoE damage while they spam invulnerability frames. In reality, the people who are saying Mesmer takes more skill than Thief is just delusional. When a Thief is spamming evades at least he isn’t doing the damage out-put that a mesmer has when the Thief is spamming evades.

Are you trolling?
What are you even talking about ? Mesmers don’t have stances.. what..

We have a 2.5 second EVADE not an invuln, which can be interrupted by shocking aura and fear… Distortion is on a 60cd and 45 with full shatter traits..

Yea actually that’s exactly how thief works, he gets evade frames during his attacks with sword shortbow or Pistol whip ; Just like a ranger who can poison for an hour with an evade. .

tl;dr; Op must be sarcastic because no one could be this kittened.

u better go back to league then if you can’t handle the meta boi

My question is. If burst is most effective against burst/glass, and their are few reasons to run it… Why bother running it all? There are a few examples like stealing bosses or killing weakened shut down foes, But our tanky DPS does that just as well and low health running away people? Lol? drops a condi and brisky walks towards the slowly dieing fool Clearly (I say clearly since we’ve only gone in that direction) A-net is more interested in builds that play themselves to absolve the use of calculated play since the combat is fast paced and a cluster kitten.

Amir.1570:

The difference between Thief and Mesmer is that when a Mesmer is bursting people down, Mesmers have invulnerability or berserker stance, balanced stance, and endure pain. DO NOT even get me started on how Mesmer also cleaves and deal AoE damage while they spam invulnerability frames. In reality, the people who are saying Mesmer takes more skill than Thief is just delusional. When a Thief is spamming evades at least he isn’t doing the damage out-put that a mesmer has when the Thief is spamming evades.

I agree that thief and mesmer glass specs are more skillful than the builds that play themselfs. However in interest of getting your point across you may want to have your facts right and be a bit more objective.

Darnis already explained to you the amount of evades/invulns mesmer has. I’ll be fair you cannot compare skill between these two. Since it’s about how to react to a situation.. However we can look at what one class has and the other doesn’t.

Mesmer Burst: Max damage – 6 clones(two shatters) highly telegraphed and majority of cool downs popped. (only to hit less dmg than a thief)

Thief Burst: No telegraph followed by heart seekers at low HP?

Thief evade spam vs Mesmers? LOL no contest thief evade ftw.

Escape? Thief has access to tons of stealth on most builds and awesome mobility.
Memser has a few short stealths, is one of the slowest classes and one of the crappiest swiftness on a nerfed off hand.

Sustain – Mes wins Phant’s GG (which aren’t that strong in burst mes)

Amir I agree with your main points. You like a lot of people start out right pointing out the flaws in this game, than shoot yourself in the foot later removing all credibility of your claims which were inherently right. Please educate yourself more because I don’t want your claims being over looked because of your lack of understanding in a certain area, try to be more objective. Besides, brust vs burst – mes vs thief is one of the fairest fights, isn’t this more favorable?

I’d like to know what is everyone’s definition of anti-fun. I’m pretty sure its going to be similar to what I just posted.. in one form or another.

plays game based around active defenses; complains about abundance of active defenses.

faeral.7120:

plays game based around active defenses; complains about abundance of active defenses.

*passive defenses

TheDevice.2751:

I main a necromancer and It’s probably the most difficult class to play successfully imo (of course) and that’s because it’s the least mobile. Warriors have always (even in it’s terribad days) have had great mobility. This allows them to engage and disengage, just like thieves mesmers and engis.. and ele’s.. and guardians lol.

Mobility doesn’t matter when gameplay revolves around fighting on points. Yeah sure you’re not going to have the roaming capability of a thief or warrior to zip around between points, but you are compensated by the ability to apply massive condi pressure, have decent survivability (extra health bar) and CC with fear. It’s enough to ensure Necros have have a role in the most competetive situations.

You should try playing an Elementalist and then re-assesing what takes the most skill. Absolutely no role whatsoever that isn’t performed vastly better by another class, 15+ awkward cooldowns to keep track of, can get randomly 2-shotted by any damage build if not careful, only 1-2 viable builds, no decent CC, average mobility, pathetic bunker potential, all survivability revolving around dodges & blowing big cooldowns. Try that.