Guild Wars 2

‘Everyone in the upper mid 50’s and up will become a Dragon!’

It has come to a stage where a lot of people are bear rank (if you don’t believe me go to HOTM,‘LA’ or even WvW and ask), this has come so easy to achieve with the rank reward buffs. If it takes such a small amount of rank points (20k) with 1k+ rank point rewards in soloq and team arenas then its just going to be like PvE.

Don’t listen to people crying about low levels versus high levels because your matching up algorithm is GLICKO based on ratings reliability and has nothing to do with ranks. And you are obviously changing this to your new ladder system and now people from the lowest ranges can be dragon rank… People want the finisher, but now that everyone has it, it won’t feel as exclusive anymore. I can imagine myself buying a gem store finisher instead of using Dragons because it is going to be rarer.

So you are basically going to make PvE levels just like PvP. The experience someone has been going through and spent all that time won’t be represented in ranks anymore. If someone has played half the amount of team arenas as someone else and is the same rank, then its just inconsiderate.

PvP was all about the ego of rank and finishers. When you rank up the next 10, you want to go off and stomp people and show off that sweet new sound of victory (Please tell me if I’m wrong) and after the new patch you will stomp dragon but you’ll also be stomped by a dragon. If you’re going to remove that then what is pvp all about? If everyone’s best representation of experience is the same, its like if suddenly the government gave everyone a Ferrari. Sure it will be exciting but it will be common, it will get boring, it will be disappointing that you’re not the only one standing out of the crowd. Remember this game is based a lot on aesthetics.

Look, I’ve been playing pvp for a while and I can tell you that some rank 40s to 50s play pvp without thinking about what they are doing. For example a guardian goes bunker a node that is on the enemy team instead of helping in a team fight somewhere else or going to the far point alone for a 1v1 but ending up getting zerged when enemy respawns and thus leaving the team 4v5 which causes the team to start losing. Not watching out for rezzes and wasting stomping opportunities. I could go on.

Still, I am going to get given rank 80 on the day without even going through pheonix. It is currently 450000 rank points per pheonix rank and it is going to get reduced to a point I completely skip it. I’m suggesting that you shouldn’t make it too easy to rank up. If the up coming patch was already done since the release then some people would have been dragon rank since December 2012. What a joke. Dedicated pvpers won’t be recognised anymore if you can rank up 1 – 80 in 3 months.

I’m not saying to keep it the same but you’ve completely gone out of range. You need to keep it in moderation. Make it slightly easier. Invent ways to get points, for example every 5 seconds you stand on a friendly node you get 1 points, if you cure 20 conditions from your allies get 10 points or get 30 points every time you deal a total of 100,000 damage. And/Or decrease the number of rank points per rank MODERATELY.

How many of you rank 55+ would like to see someone else who played half or even less tournaments than you have the same rank?

Agreed. There’s going to be no more prestige in being a dragon. I won’t even see my shark finisher

the only thing i can see in long term goal pvp are titles
in gw2 titles were bound to the ranks
now if they dont change how to get the titles you will still need a LOT of pvp to get the higher titles

that whole system .. could…will probly.. work somehow

however i dont just skip phoenix i do also skip shark
and i highly doubt that i find it rewarding to get the dragon given without even stomped once with a shark… >_<

btw i like how anet says stuff like “a small group of rank 80’s”
seriously i do really think that we will see more dragons than we see sharks right now..
so it really is nothing special..
fortunately i already have my guild shield finisher and my quaggan finisher : D

bhagwad.4281:

Agreed. There’s going to be no more prestige in being a dragon. I won’t even see my shark finisher

That is because they don’t want it to be, they want people to focus on the leader boards not their ranks.

MrFlump.8725:

bhagwad.4281:

Agreed. There’s going to be no more prestige in being a dragon. I won’t even see my shark finisher

That is because they don’t want it to be, they want people to focus on the leader boards not their ranks.

Then they might as well remove ranks as originally planned. There was an outcry in the PvP community when they said they would be taking ranks away. Why? Because people want to focus on ranks and finishers. So they listened…at least we thought they listened.

They don’t get it. They just don’t get it. We want a long term PvP goal. Something to dream about as we play. I don’t want to skip both shark and phoenix to get dragon immediately. It’s insulting and demeaning. And it’s badly shafting the loyal playerbase who have been grinding ranks beyond r55.

Doesn’t Anet respect the time, dedication and effort put in by these people? How can they just take it all away like that?

That is because they want the end goal to be high up leader boards, I could be awful at pvp and be the same rank as a amazing player just because I played pvp a lot. Look at games like LOL you need to play the game a lot AND get better to get up to the higher divisions, GW2 ranks all you need to do is play, you don’t need to improve to get to 80 I mean look at the Skyhammer farmers that took no skill at all.

Yeah right now the leader boards suck, they need to be improved and there need to be good rewards for being high up them. They not trying to take away along term goal just trying to change it. (BECAUSE E-SPORTS)

They have said that rank isn’t meant to be a sign of prestige.
Rank is a mean to show that you’ve gathered enough experience in PvP to be considered a competent player.

So, pretty much like in PvE, if you’re rank 80 you have probably spent enough time in PvP to be considered “experienced”.

They have also said that prestige will be shown when ladders and seasons will be brought into the game and I agree with them. Time spent shouldn’t be a way to determine prestige as the position in a leaderboard system, especially in a competitive gamemode.

I guess we’ll see prestige in PvP when they will implement ladders and seasons, so it will be about 4+ months considering how much time they took from the CDI to the implementation of rewards in PvP.

It had to be done… The people who are 55+ now pretty much do deserve 80, we’ve just become so used to the torture it feels like something is being taken away from us. If you look at it in a beginners point of view, 80 (something that should be a targetable goal) is still very much-so a long shot. For level 70s, yeah it sucks for them, but its for the best of the game. maybe they should give 60+’s a unique title before the change? Whatever, but regardless for the sake of the game it was bound to happen. People pretty much knew this was coming once the math was done when the first people were hitting 50/60…

sorrow.2364:

They have said that rank isn’t meant to be a sign of prestige.
Rank is a mean to show that you’ve gathered enough experience in PvP to be considered a competent player.

So, pretty much like in PvE, if you’re rank 80 you have probably spent enough time in PvP to be considered “experienced”.

They have also said that prestige will be shown when ladders and seasons will be brought into the game and I agree with them. Time spent shouldn’t be a way to determine prestige as the position in a leaderboard system, especially in a competitive gamemode.

I guess we’ll see prestige in PvP when they will implement ladders and seasons, so it will be about 4+ months considering how much time they took from the CDI to the implementation of rewards in PvP.

“Prestige” is not something that can be controlled absolutely. Sometimes a game organically develops measures of prestige not intended by the creators. And people spend a lot of time and hard work achieving those measures. It’s wrong of them to just throw all of that under the buss.

bhagwad.4281:

“Prestige” is not something that can be controlled absolutely. Sometimes a game organically develops measures of prestige not intended by the creators. And people spend a lot of time and hard work achieving those measures. It’s wrong of them to just throw all of that under the buss.

A high rank dose NOT need hard work! It dose not show skill or effort you put into pvp, while being high up on a leader board (if it worked well) would show it. I could just mess around in hot join and be the same rank as someone who put a lot of effort into the game. Rank should not be something to be proud of if someone with no skill can get just as high as someone with a lot of skill.

MrFlump.8725:

A high rank dose NOT need hard work!

Yes it does. If it didn’t, there would be r70+ players all over the place. Yet in my hundreds upon hundreds of hours of PvP I’ve never even seen a phoenix finisher.

bhagwad.4281:

MrFlump.8725:

A high rank dose NOT need hard work!

Yes it does. If it didn’t, there would be r70+ players all over the place. Yet in my hundreds upon hundreds of hours of PvP I’ve never even seen a phoenix finisher.

All rank needs is time, you don’t NEED to try, you can try and pvp 24/7 to get 80 faster, but you dont need to be good a pvp to get ranks, you dont see many Phoenix’s because it takes too long, its not like you need skill and a 80% win rate to get high ranks.

To get to the top of a leader board, however (again if they where done well) you would need to try to get better at the game.

To get ranks all you need to do is play, you do NOT need to be good at the game. High ranks means “i’ve played pvp for a long time” and not “I am a skilled pvp player”

MrFlump.8725:

bhagwad.4281:

MrFlump.8725:

A high rank dose NOT need hard work!

Yes it does. If it didn’t, there would be r70+ players all over the place. Yet in my hundreds upon hundreds of hours of PvP I’ve never even seen a phoenix finisher.

All rank needs is time, you don’t NEED to try, you can try and pvp 24/7 to get 80 faster, but you dont need to be good a pvp to get ranks, you dont see many Phoenix’s because it takes too long, its not like you need skill and a 80% win rate to get high ranks.

To get to the top of a leader board, however (again if they where done well) you would need to try to get better at the game.

To get ranks all you need to do is play, you do NOT need to be good at the game. High ranks means “i’ve played pvp for a long time” and not “I am a skilled pvp player”

In this case, time = hard work. You can’t spend all the time you want standing around in the mists and you won’t reach rank 70. Who said you only have to reward skill? Every MMO rewards grind. That’s why there is grind.

And I’m getting tired of people saying that ranks don’t mean anything. Pit a group of r70 players against r40s and see who wins each and every time. Saying “ranks don’t mean anything” is just a nice piece of theory crafted by low rankers who want to make themselves feel as good as those who are of a higher rank.

They’re not.

I’m very happy ranks are losing these values.

Phantom Master.9582:

I’m very happy ranks are losing these values.

You’re happy that people are being robbed of stuff they worked for. Good for you. You can feel happy about it, but some of us don’t like injustice and fight against it.

bhagwad.4281:

Phantom Master.9582:

I’m very happy ranks are losing these values.

You’re happy that people are being robbed of stuff they worked for. Good for you. You can feel happy about it, but some of us don’t like injustice and fight against it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Consider-compensation-for-the-dedicated/first#post3831102

Everybody will agree that r70 should be the new r80. Not less, not more.

r70 is still a long-term goal for any pvpers (count the number of r70 in game atm, they are few) and the dragon finisher will still be quite pretigious.

As long as I can remember, the r40s’ of 2014 are WAY weaker than those from one year ago due to the increased rank points.

When I see a r40, I know i can beat him easily and/or will be a burden to the team. It wasn’t the case one year ago.

And now what ? I’ll see a r80 and in few months, and could be r30ish in his skill, but he still will have the same rank as high level players. What’s the point ?

@bhagwad Im not saying standing in the HotM will get you ranks, im saying i can join hotjoin and just zerg about and go up ranks.

Also you are playing a COMPETITIVE game mode, one which should reward skill and not grind for players who want to be good at the game, ranks dose not do this because EVERYONE can get to 80, some faster than others but everyone can.

Imagine if a game like LOL you could get to Diamond 1 just buy playing and not needing to win (just winning get you there faster) Yeah when you’re one of the first to get there its fun but once everyone else is there its not as special as a thing is it.

Im not saying rank means nothing but it dose not mean skill, yeah you will know a lot about pvp and a rank 40 will be better than a rank 2 but a rank 30 could be a much better player than that rank 40.

Im just saying people who have the goal to be good at pvp in gw2 should shift there focus from ranks to the leader boards and thats what ANet is trying to do.

Also are you forgetting the new rewards system, you know the one that rewards grinding matches and not needing to win (though it increases faster if you do), there is your grind.

bhagwad.4281:

In this case, time = hard work. You can’t spend all the time you want standing around in the mists and you won’t reach rank 70. Who said you only have to reward skill? Every MMO rewards grind. That’s why there is grind.

And I’m getting tired of people saying that ranks don’t mean anything. Pit a group of r70 players against r40s and see who wins each and every time. Saying “ranks don’t mean anything” is just a nice piece of theory crafted by low rankers who want to make themselves feel as good as those who are of a higher rank.

They’re not.

It is Guild Wars 2 and you, as a Guild Wars 2 player, are supposed to hate grind with your whole soul as being anti-grind was the first selling point of Guild Wars 2.

I am r51, playing with a team of players ranging from r40 to r51. We are exactly r40, r46, r48, r50 and r51. We are ranging around the 200-400 positions in the leaderboards and we get matched almost entirely against r50/60+ players. Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose.

You can easily pick 5 competent r40 players and match them against bad r60 players who grinded the rank through skyhammer and wandering around the lowest end of the ladder.

I’ve done about 2k tourney’s…80% being me entering Team Q solo due to long Que times.i’m rank 56 500ish on LB’s..i feel robbed of a finisher that i would have earned here shortly (shark)Rank’s mean nothing about skill etc some argue.i agree to a certain point.But at the same time aren’t pve titles,achievment points etc a grind? yet to say pvp rank shouldn’t be such a grind…The loyal pvpers i’ve seen in Team Q like myself we’ve played the same crap over and over and over and over…And were Kitten on…i dont pve at all…i dont care to..if i see something i want like a skin or item in the TP i swipe the good old CC and buy it…i dont want the dragon..i dont feel i’ve earned it..Guild wars 1 we went from having rank,Glad titles,Trim capes,diffrent pvp modes to not even know what the Kitten to do with rank alone in gws2.i’ve never played any other MMO..it was always guild wars for me…But i cant justify continueing to play at this rate..

They did an awesome work, imo.

I think the major issue is this: Ranks aren’t the standard anymore. Leaderboards will be. It’s time for the playerbase to shift their focus. Stop with the “ranks are meaningless” threads. They always have been.

Rank is to PvP what XP is to PvE

Can we move on now please?

ruca.2796:

I’ve done about 2k tourney’s…80% being me entering Team Q solo due to long Que times.i’m rank 56 500ish on LB’s..i feel robbed of a finisher that i would have earned here shortly (shark)Rank’s mean nothing about skill etc some argue.i agree to a certain point.But at the same time aren’t pve titles,achievment points etc a grind? yet to say pvp rank shouldn’t be such a grind…The loyal pvpers i’ve seen in Team Q like myself we’ve played the same crap over and over and over and over…And were Kitten on…i dont pve at all…i dont care to..if i see something i want like a skin or item in the TP i swipe the good old CC and buy it…i dont want the dragon..i dont feel i’ve earned it..Guild wars 1 we went from having rank,Glad titles,Trim capes,diffrent pvp modes to not even know what the Kitten to do with rank alone in gws2.i’ve never played any other MMO..it was always guild wars for me…But i cant justify continueing to play at this rate..

Exactly, the whole value of PvP players is going to hit rock bottom. Anet devs don’t realise the scale of their own game. It’s like if we’re still playing a beta. Oh lets ‘experiment’ living story, lets fix bugs 2 years later.

Oh talking about bugs in PvP, if you die at the end of the count down, you get a respawn time when the game starts, if you are forced out of combat you can’t swap weapons, if you get cced in a certain spot/position you cannot move again, similarly with spamming evades on thief, ele damage results only show vapor form, ele downstate ‘vapor’ form isn’t in sync with the server (client will travel further than the server anticipates) e.g I jump off an edge in mist form but the server thinks I’m still on the top, oh and annoying as kitten stuff like when you reroll you have to go through 2 loading screens, roster not found at the end of a round and tournament pop up spamming your screen every 2 seconds. If I click wait then it should wait until I need to go… Pointless button? Please polish your game, its unprofessional.

I posted this in a another tread but i’ll post it here too cause its relevant.

What im trying to say is not that rank shows no skill but it dose so poorly, so im gunna make it simple and show why I think rank is a bad way to show skill (and yes i know its a bit of an extreme case of what could happen with the rank system)

OK look at it like this,

lets say 1 win = 5 points and 1 loss = 1 point and every 10 points you get a rank

Lets say Player A is a god at this game and never losses but only plays 2 games a day giving him 10 points meaning he ranks up 1 time every day

Now Player B is pretty bad at the game and only wins 1 game a day but losses another 5 meaning he also got 10 points a day so he also ranks up 1 time every day.

They both play for 80 days and are now both rank 80, now looking at just their ranks who is the better player?

this is what im trying to get at, because rank also factors in the amount of games you play and not just win/loss it dose not correctly show you level of skills, not all r70s are on the same skill level as eachother some could be a lot worse. This is why people who want to be “pro players” should be glad they are shifting the focus to leader boards because it will more correctly show your skill level (once they make them better that is) than your rank dose right now.

Think how awesome if would feel being top 5 on the leader boards and ANet give you a special title or finisher (which they need to do) only 5 people have and you have to actually TRY to stay in the top 5 to keep it, wouldn’t that be more gratifying than a dragon finisher that everyone will get eventually. Things like this will be more likely if the focus was taken off of ranks and on to leader boards.

ANet really need to shove Leader boards into your face when you pvp, you can’t even see them in game right now which really sucks and give special things to people high up on them that you can only keep if you stay high up

MrFlump.8725:

I posted this in a another tread but i’ll post it here too cause its relevant.

What im trying to say is not that rank shows no skill but it dose so poorly, so im gunna make it simple and show why I think rank is a bad way to show skill (and yes i know its a bit of an extreme case of what could happen with the rank system)

OK look at it like this,

lets say 1 win = 5 points and 1 loss = 1 point and every 10 points you get a rank

Lets say Player A is a god at this game and never losses but only plays 2 games a day giving him 10 points meaning he ranks up 1 time every day

Now Player B is pretty bad at the game and only wins 1 game a day but losses another 5 meaning he also got 10 points a day so he also ranks up 1 time every day.

They both play for 80 days and are now both rank 80, now looking at just their ranks who is the better player?

this is what im trying to get at, because rank also factors in the amount of games you play and not just win/loss it dose not correctly show you level of skills, not all r70s are on the same skill level as eachother some could be a lot worse. This is why people who want to be “pro players” should be glad they are shifting the focus to leader boards because it will more correctly show your skill level (once they make them better that is) than your rank dose right now.

Think how awesome if would feel being top 5 on the leader boards and ANet give you a special title or finisher (which they need to do) only 5 people have and you have to actually TRY to stay in the top 5 to keep it, wouldn’t that be more gratifying than a dragon finisher that everyone will get eventually. Things like this will be more likely if the focus was taken off of ranks and on to leader boards.

ANet really need to shove Leader boards into your face when you pvp, you can’t even see them in game right now which really sucks and give special things to people high up on them that you can only keep if you stay high up

I’m pretty sure it comes to a point where you actually understand the game. After playing 2000 tournaments, how can you not have any experience, nobody at high rank has a 20% win rate… Be realistic please. Sure some people will be worse than others but to have the experience of the game for playing hundreds of hours still means that a legit rank 60 will be better than a legit rank 50 but maybe not as good as the other legit rank 60s.

I just realized that people are probably mad about this because they farmed pvp for hours on end to get to 70 or whatever. This is a perfect example of why people should just play and have fun, not grind levels for no good reason. I feel bad for the guys that grinded this, and pretty much wasted their time. lol I have spent alot of time in pvp and I’m rank 49, man some of you guys must have played like 6-8 hours of pvp a day for months. That is what I call dedication. I wonder does any one have the numbers for how much time it actually takes to get to 70 rank? Right off the top of my head, ive played about 3700 pvp games(hot, solo, team). lets say at an average of 10 minutes a game thats 37000 minutes. divided by 60 is 616 hours. Thats 25 days of pvp. If a person played pvp 1 hour a day, it would take over a year and a half just to get to 49. After dedicating this much time to pvp(my god, i need to play this game less)I think i would like some kind of bone, and at least see a dragon finisher in my life.

Oh, and I dont think they left rank in to show ability, the new ladder system coming up will do that

slsharpshooter.5631:

I’m pretty sure it comes to a point where you actually understand the game. After playing 2000 tournaments, how can you not have any experience, nobody at high rank has a 20% win rate… Be realistic please. Sure some people will be worse than others but to have the experience of the game for playing hundreds of hours still means that a legit rank 60 will be better than a legit rank 50 but maybe not as good as the other legit rank 60s.

Like i said it was an extreme version, but i was trying to point out that because rank takes into account time played it is a less accurate way or showing skill level where a good leader board system would show it better, people should be more interested about being high up on the leader broads than a high rank and ANet are trying to do that.

a legit 50 could be better than a legit 60 with this system it may not be likely but it can happen so it needs to be change. Again look at LOL people get stuck in bronze for long times, they don’t go up divisions because they played a lot of games they go up because they improve and if they don’t they stay in bronze. Because you don’t need to improve to go up in ranks in gw2 its a bad way of showing skill.

Before you tell me “but Flump you will improve as you go up ranks” yes you will but NOT at the same rate as everyone else! but with a leader board or a division system you will only go up if you IMPROVE your game play.

You guys are missing the point. The goal of the PvP changes was to make the rewards more common with other game modes and to encourage people to try PvP who otherwise see it as a separate game. This breed of semi-serious gamer would never be comfortable if the coolest titles were quite difficult to obtain because they didn’t start in this game mode.

Let’s face it, losing a few of the hardest core players is really not much of a business concern for a game. Not for the benefit of anchoring your semi-casuals into another game mode. This change along with allowing dungeon loot etc to be obtained in PvP was just brilliant. Truly impressed by the business model.

MrFlump.8725:

slsharpshooter.5631:

I’m pretty sure it comes to a point where you actually understand the game. After playing 2000 tournaments, how can you not have any experience, nobody at high rank has a 20% win rate… Be realistic please. Sure some people will be worse than others but to have the experience of the game for playing hundreds of hours still means that a legit rank 60 will be better than a legit rank 50 but maybe not as good as the other legit rank 60s.

Like i said it was an extreme version, but i was trying to point out that because rank takes into account time played it is a less accurate way or showing skill level where a good leader board system would show it better, people should be more interested about being high up on the leader broads than a high rank and ANet are trying to do that.

a legit 50 could be better than a legit 60 with this system it may not be likely but it can happen so it needs to be change. Again look at LOL people get stuck in bronze for long times, they don’t go up divisions because they played a lot of games they go up because they improve and if they don’t they stay in bronze. Because you don’t need to improve to go up in ranks in gw2 its a bad way of showing skill.

Before you tell me “but Flump you will improve as you go up ranks” yes you will but NOT at the same rate as everyone else! but with a leader board or a division system you will only go up if you IMPROVE your game play.

OK I understand you but still I’d rather be represented in ranks AND in the ladder system than just only the ladder system. I want the range from 1 – 80 to still be long. This is an MMO, you are meant to play this game over a longer period of time than all the other games. I want to show off my ego in the face of my enemy in-game.

slsharpshooter.5631:

OK I understand you but still I’d rather be represented in ranks AND in the ladder system than just only the ladder system. I want the range from 1 – 80 to still be long. This is an MMO, you are meant to play this game over a longer period of time than all the other games. I want to show off my ego in the face of my enemy in-game.

You say this is a MMO but you forgot what one of GW2 selling points was “less grind” why do you think the pve lvling curve flattens out at the later levels, would you rather a dragon finisher that everyone can get or a finisher that says #1 Pvper (which they need to put in to make more of an incentive to get high on the leader boards) for being the top on the leader boards, you cant use both at the same time so which would you use the most?

They could add the rewards,thats awesome.BUT at the same time not adjust rank so much.make 70 Dragon 60 phoenix and on down the line.and cap at idk 40-50k rank per rank up after a certain point.BUT 20k…

I’m fine with the 20k per rank. I am not fine with capping it at 80. Let people continue to progress with their ranks.