Your opinion on new heals (After livestream)
Necro, mesmer, and ranger heals were underwhelming. The rest were okay.
Agreed except if I’m not mistaken, this new heal might actually be pretty OP for PU Mesmers, can’t be 100% certain on that yet though, but it may have promise for them. (Not that PU needed it, but regardless.)
you truly believe that thieves heal was OK?! a poison on a 45 sec CD that requires you to LAND 4 hits in order to get healed?! Not to mention you need to be in Cleric gear and and it is heavily trait dependent?!
The thief heal may not be “okay” for everyone, but I often 2v2 with a venom share thief, so I was quite pleased by it. :P Sorry.
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Wildly disappointed with the necro heal. A lot of them seem interesting and different, though.
Necro, mesmer, and ranger heals were underwhelming. The rest were okay.
Agreed except if I’m not mistaken, this new heal might actually be pretty OP for PU Mesmers, can’t be 100% certain on that yet though, but it may have promise for them. (Not that PU needed it, but regardless.)
you truly believe that thieves heal was OK?! a poison on a 45 sec CD that requires you to LAND 4 hits in order to get healed?! Not to mention you need to be in Cleric gear and and it is heavily trait dependent?!
Unlike the Necro heal you actually get some health just for using the Thief skill.
Necro, mesmer, and ranger heals were underwhelming. The rest were okay.
Agreed except if I’m not mistaken, this new heal might actually be pretty OP for PU Mesmers, can’t be 100% certain on that yet though, but it may have promise for them. (Not that PU needed it, but regardless.)
you truly believe that thieves heal was OK?! a poison on a 45 sec CD that requires you to LAND 4 hits in order to get healed?! Not to mention you need to be in Cleric gear and and it is heavily trait dependent?!
Unlike the Necro heal you actually get some health just for using the Thief skill.
Actually, the necro heal does give 4k healing initially, now. It’s just that, you know… 4k healing + a total possible of 1200 more via leeching (which was nerfed), equaling 5.2k heal for a necromancer (highest HP class in the game with warriors), on a 35 second cooldown is absolutely garbage.
Why would anyone take a heal to get 5.2k heal every 35 seconds or regen 300 hp IF hit no more than once a second (where warrior healing signet is 392 every second on the dot). For 800 more damage if the target literally stands still and doesn’t dodge the cast OR any time afterward…?
CC is like 5.2k BASE + rids all conditions AND heals 700 more per condition removed… Oh and it has a 25 second cooldown.
Blood fiend heals (if it hits anyways) 927 health every 3 seconds, so that’s 309 hp/s as long as the Blood fiend keeps up on its target, plus it does about 100 damage a second and has a 20 second cooldown, 16 if traited. Blood fiend is BAD (outshined by healing signet in every way possible except the little added damage) and STILL outshines this signet. o.O
And- just to mention, we didn’t need another support heal. Leeching is supposed to be selfish and tanky not support… We have Well of Blood for one of the better support heals in the game already. >_>: We didn’t need another one. Not to mention wells are meant for supporting, leeching is not. Fix it.
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
I rly dont had the feeling that warrior would need another invulnerably.
The guard heal also seems pretty strong, as well as the mesmers one.
btw, does anybody else also have the feeling, that always when those 2 “balance” guys show up, pvp gets a little bit worse?
Same for the stream. A lot of good information, then they occured.
Nothing in personal, just my opinion.
Balance aside, I feel that the new heal skills are very well designed.
The higher emphasis on party support, the possibility to screw their effects if poorly played, and the more opportunities given to your opponent to counterplay them, all add up to a more skill-driven playstyle. Some of them also punish pet clutter (guardian’s and ele’s) or condition bursting (warrior’s or engie’s), as those two situations will make it very easy for those four skills to give massive health bursts to their respective owners.
Even the more “passive” skills are more demanding than what they seem at the first glance. The mesmer’s signet, for example, only activates every three seconds, the passive is underwhelming or non-existent with less than two illusions, and it has a good active effect that players will want to take advantage of. In comparison to the braindead Healing Signet, mesmer’s one has a weaker passive (good), a stronger active (good), the passive requires resource maintenance (good) and the enemy can counterplay the passive (good) and in some way the active (good). Likewise, the spirit’s passive heal also seems rather underwhelming (600 hp each ten seconds for each party member?), but the bulk of the skill lies in the active effect and demands party awareness, two positives for it.
Now taking balance into equation, I do have some worries. Especially for those two skills. The first is what’s everyone asked already, won’t spirit rangers become even stronger with a fifth spirit? The second issue is how easy a mesmer can maintain (or recreate) their illusions, which can nullify some of the skill involved in its passive effect.
Necro, mesmer, and ranger heals were underwhelming. The rest were okay.
Agreed except if I’m not mistaken, this new heal might actually be pretty OP for PU Mesmers, can’t be 100% certain on that yet though, but it may have promise for them. (Not that PU needed it, but regardless.)
you truly believe that thieves heal was OK?! a poison on a 45 sec CD that requires you to LAND 4 hits in order to get healed?! Not to mention you need to be in Cleric gear and and it is heavily trait dependent?!
Unlike the Necro heal you actually get some health just for using the Thief skill.
Actually, the necro heal does give 4k healing initially, now. It’s just that, you know… 4k healing + a total possible of 1200 more via leeching (which was nerfed), equaling 5.2k heal for a necromancer (highest HP class in the game with warriors), on a 35 second cooldown is absolutely garbage.
Why would anyone take a heal to get 5.2k heal every 35 seconds or regen 300 hp IF hit no more than once a second (where warrior healing signet is 392 every second on the dot). For 800 more damage if the target literally stands still and doesn’t dodge the cast OR any time afterward…?
CC is like 5.2k BASE + rids all conditions AND heals 700 more per condition removed… Oh and it has a 25 second cooldown.
Blood fiend heals (if it hits anyways) 927 health every 3 seconds, so that’s 309 hp/s as long as the Blood fiend keeps up on its target, plus it does about 100 damage a second and has a 20 second cooldown, 16 if traited. Blood fiend is BAD (outshined by healing signet in every way possible except the little added damage) and STILL outshines this signet. o.O
And- just to mention, we didn’t need another support heal. Leeching is supposed to be selfish and tanky not support… We have Well of Blood for one of the better support heals in the game already. >_>: We didn’t need another one. Not to mention wells are meant for supporting, leeching is not. Fix it.
Thank god there’s a base heal.
Everything else is the biggest problem with this signet. When you look at Warrior’s Healing Signet, it had to be markedly better than the other two heal skills to get any use. When you take the Signet of Vampirism, it’s remarkably worse when compared to Necro’s other heals.
It’s the same issue with the rest of the other Vampiric abilities. I can’t help but feel like they’re kept weak because their synergy with Minion Master builds. Maybe if there was a Vampiric trait that gave your conditions to your enemy on a critical hit every 5 seconds…
(edited by Proven.2854)
I have to say, to look on the bright side of things: there has been some great comedy coming out of this. The heal still sucks, but at least I can laugh about it before I cry myself to sleep tonight.
Why are you complaining so much?
You and other few ppl are always saying that Necro is good, that necro doesn’t need buffs and that everything is OK with necro’s skills and even some of them need nerfs.
I just wish they would stop with their obsessions with thieves and venoms, as a long time player of both thief and warrior.
I have to say, to look on the bright side of things: there has been some great comedy coming out of this. The heal still sucks, but at least I can laugh about it before I cry myself to sleep tonight.
Why are you complaining so much?
You and other few ppl are always saying that Necro is good, that necro doesn’t need buffs and that everything is OK with necro’s skills and even some of them need nerfs.
I’m going to take a guess and say because it is another example of having no clear vision of what a necro should do and how to do it. Necros were very underpowered for 10 months, then overpowered as of 6/25. Still no blocks/invulns/vigor/etc., few blast finishers, and siphoning has never been viable and still isn’t.
The changes to this signet took a lot of hope for siphoning to be viable and killed it. Does it ruin Necros? No. But many other classes will see use of the new heal and Necros more than likely wont ever touch this thing.
Why is it so hard to make a blood necro viable? Siphoning is one of the main themes of the necro…get on it.
I think people don’t realize the potencial of necro’s new heal. If I ever see a necro in my party use it, my fresh air burst is suddenly going to be much more deadly, and I’ll still get health back out of it. And in any situation where a bunker is holding, say, two players, if the necro uses it, the bunker is going to get bursted real hard.
Think of any 2v3 or 3v3 scenario at the middle point of any map. A necro uses the signet on the guardian. Everyone bursts the guardian down within those five seconds for 4-6k extra damage.
Of course, it can be counter-played, blocked, evaded, etc. But in several scenarios, this skill can potencially flip points to your team.
I think people don’t realize the potencial of necro’s new heal. If I ever see a necro in my party use it, my fresh air burst is suddenly going to be much more deadly, and I’ll still get health back out of it. And in any situation where a bunker is holding, say, two players, if the necro uses it, the bunker is going to get bursted real hard.
Think of any 2v3 or 3v3 scenario at the middle point of any map. A necro uses the signet on the guardian. Everyone bursts the guardian down within those five seconds for 4-6k extra damage.
Of course, it can be counter-played, blocked, evaded, etc. But in several scenarios, this skill can potencially flip points to your team.
Sorry to burst your bubble but the “on use”, assuming it doesn’t miss in the first place, heals the necro for 4000 and the leech effect has a 1 second ICD, so the most you’re realistically going to siphon is 4 times for a but 300. That’s 1,200 more healing/damage per person max, so in 2v2, in a 100% perfect scenario, you and the necro is going to get about 2,400 damage and healing combined, and the necro would have used their 35 second Cooldown heal for 5,200 hp. Good luck with your awesome 2v2.
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
I think people don’t realize the potencial of necro’s new heal. If I ever see a necro in my party use it, my fresh air burst is suddenly going to be much more deadly, and I’ll still get health back out of it. And in any situation where a bunker is holding, say, two players, if the necro uses it, the bunker is going to get bursted real hard.
Think of any 2v3 or 3v3 scenario at the middle point of any map. A necro uses the signet on the guardian. Everyone bursts the guardian down within those five seconds for 4-6k extra damage.
Of course, it can be counter-played, blocked, evaded, etc. But in several scenarios, this skill can potencially flip points to your team.
280 points of leeching dmg every second (1 sec icd) for 5 sec max,on full berserker and with 35sec cd makes your fresh air over the top? Please never consider a venom share thief or your mind will explode
I think people don’t realize the potencial of necro’s new heal. If I ever see a necro in my party use it, my fresh air burst is suddenly going to be much more deadly, and I’ll still get health back out of it. And in any situation where a bunker is holding, say, two players, if the necro uses it, the bunker is going to get bursted real hard.
Think of any 2v3 or 3v3 scenario at the middle point of any map. A necro uses the signet on the guardian. Everyone bursts the guardian down within those five seconds for 4-6k extra damage.
Of course, it can be counter-played, blocked, evaded, etc. But in several scenarios, this skill can potencially flip points to your team.
280 points of leeching dmg every second (1 sec icd) for 5 sec max makes your fresh air over the top. Please never consider a venom share thief or your mind will explode
FYI, Leeching Venoms steals 350 hp and you can have tons of venoms to use with someone who runs 2 utility venoms, elite venom and the heal venom. Seriously, thieves have better leeches than necromancers and they can all be shared. Just saying.
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Warrior, mesmer and guardian heals are blatantly overpowered.
Engineer and elementalist heals seem balanced. The engineer heal is probably the best designed one in the batch.
Ranger, necromancer and thief heals are worthless.
In conclusion ArenaNet still can’t balance for kitten and should just stop introducing new things until they’ve got the basics figured out.
War and guard heals can be counterplayed easily in spvp. But in wvw where they get lost in the crowd and are always whacking 5 targets it will be over the top.
I bet jimmy kimmel is behind this!!
E.A.D.
Fingers crossed that a little more tuning goes into some heals between now and release [wishful, but not hopeful]
Why are you complaining so much?
You and other few ppl are always saying that Necro is good, that necro doesn’t need buffs and that everything is OK with necro’s skills and even some of them need nerfs.
If you honestly think this is true of my opinion then you have never seriously read or comprehended anything I have posted in the Necromancer forums over the last year (and over 3,000 posts), or anything in the podcasts (if you listen to them).
I try to keep a positive note on things, otherwise the forums turn into an even more negative and un-helpful place. And I try to play Devil’s Advocate for ANet, because no one else wants to consider things from their side. Besides that I generally gush over how amazing minions are, and try to give some ideas for improving the class I’ve spent too much time and money on.
Unfortunately, this was one of those situations where there really isn’t much of a positive to look at. There is one situation where this skill is worthwhile to taking, and that is PvE boss fights where either you and your party can’t stack in melee, or the fight is so easy that the vastly superior WoB healing in a support build doesn’t matter, and the DPS is better. That is because you’d never use this skill in a damage build because you will deal more damage just attacking.
Other than that one situation, this will see no serious use.
My opinion? ANET forgot to balance the heal skills. They came up with some cool ideas and just implemented them.
Mesmer skill? Really going to make this class OP? Clearly no thought into that.
Thief skill? Yeah, I’d like to see how many thieves use that. Worthless
In general: Heal on being struck? Have you heard of WvW? Thanks for the god mode.
I don’t get why ANET introduces new heal skills when they can’t even balance the skills they already have. Just look to the number of changes coming in the Dec 10 balance patch for proof.
I don’t get why ANET introduces new heal skills when they can’t even balance the skills they already have.
It is true that they can’t balance the skill’s we already have. But they promised new skills before the end of 2013, so here we are. Also, people are getting bored of the skills we’ve had since launch, especially since there are so few. They’re really stuck between a rock and a hard place right now:
Anet seriously needs to get better at balancing.
I think each heal, with the exception of elementalist and necromancer, were all very nice and will make good additions to the game. The engineer one will probably be complained about in low level pvp/hotjoin but at a high level you can just hold off on killing the engi to negate a lot of healing and put it on a big cooldown.
The elementalist and necromancer heals are absolute crap. The ele one has a cast time….if it had been instant then it could have been useful to use during a stun etc. but they are so worried about ele being op that they have no idea what to do with the class. Reason I stopped playing ele. The heal being a blast finisher might see some very very slight use in wvw but I still think ether renewal is much more useful. The fact that you have to put youself in harms way by hitting multiple enemies to get the full effect is nonsence.
You can just hear the fear in the devs voice when he talks about the ele heal saying it was instant but they don’t want to reduce the need for stunbreakers….lolololol. Ele is the least viable profession of all and next patch it will not be better…I think when they finally realize what I have known for a long time they will buff the ele way too much and make it op, because they just have no idea what to do with this class.
The necro heal is just crap, the ICD makes it very useless. Watching them try to heal by attacking was funny…I think the necro managed to heal something like 800hp? LOL so helpful out of the 20k hp pool…
But all the other heals and nice and pretty unique…and at least the ranger spirit isn’t as large as other spirits.
The Guardian heal I don’t quite understand. It only seems to be good at some moments, which is ONLY when you have something to hit, and many of them.
All of our other heals works everywhere, every playstyle, every playmode. Shelter heals while blocking attacks for 2 seconds. Signet of Resolve heals a lot and got a passive that removes a condition every 10 seconds. Even Healing Breeze heals for a pretty good amount and heals your allies.
I don’t even know why we should consider this heal, even if you’re a full out Berserker Guardian. All the other heals already do great, and better than this one.
Yeah, the thief and ranger community should be upset to be honest. The guardian’s is also a little shaky.
But the two classes I mentioned previously seem to have been balanced with the assumption that the players will take the necessary traits, thus punishing the people who don’t with extreme prejudice.
I mean, 45 second cd on a venom heal? How is that even remotely viable without the traits?
The necromancer heal is insulting. On the live stream, the heal bar did not even appear to go up.
If you cannot heal facing stationary golems in he mists, how are you supposed to heal in the game?
Thief healing skill is terrible and no one in their right mind should want to run it. You’ll still be forced to heavily invest in venom traits, you’ll still lose out on important utilities like condition cleansing, shadowstepping, and stun breaking, you’ll still have less survivability than other builds, and the “team support” you gain from venomsharing will be insignificant compared to the actual support you’d have if you were running something else.
Until venom traits, cooldowns, and general lack of utility gets reworked, venoms will remain poor, underwhelming skills.
Healing skills my kitten…
We dont need new healing skills, we need new devs..
Terrible job imo.
I think it was a mistake to add more heals – lack of choice in weapon skills is by far the bigger problem IMO.
I’d have added new elites before heals as well.
There are two types of players: people who think that the new thief heal is good, and people who have tried thief venoms before.
venoms need shorter cool downs to be semi viable, the new heal probably won’t be used much until this happens
The mesmer heal while seeming cool the HPS (health per second) will still not be as much as a 3 clone EF or a traited mantra heal however put them together. It may be something crazy
Thief heal might have nice synergy with Improvisation (recharge heal/basi venom + others on every steal – pretty good with lyssa runes)
You can’t recharge on every steal : it’s venom or trap or… or … or…
You have 20% chance on every steal in reality so it’s better to reduce cooldown on venom if you are not a lucky guy.
And if you take not the heal who give you evade or stealth so you stay in the melee and can take all the burst, for me the best poison are immobilize and torment (you can burst with your team on a target twice), and i prefer thieves guild in 1v1 cause you share with them the venom. Hide in shadows and blinding power are good to save your kitten .
I don’t say the new heal is bad but you need to survive too and can’t handle a burst without way to evade.
(edited by Rivebise.2354)
The mesmer heal while seeming cool the HPS (health per second) will still not be as much as a 3 clone EF or a traited mantra heal however put them together. It may be something crazy
It really only has to compete with EF. Mantras are just outshined in every way atm, mainly because;
-non-viable without traits
-traits aren’t worth investing in if you are only using 1 mantra
-using anything more than 1 mantra will kill your damage output by too much and give your opponent way too much breathing room
So yeah, mantras are catch 22; trash without heavy investment, trash with heavy investment.
Shatter specs might still want EF for the spike heal but tankier phantasm/PU builds are gonna be all over that signet
The mesmer heal while seeming cool the HPS (health per second) will still not be as much as a 3 clone EF or a traited mantra heal however put them together. It may be something crazy
It really only has to compete with EF. Mantras are just outshined in every way atm, mainly because;
-non-viable without traits
-traits aren’t worth investing in if you are only using 1 mantra
-using anything more than 1 mantra will kill your damage output by too much and give your opponent way too much breathing roomSo yeah, mantras are catch 22; trash without heavy investment, trash with heavy investment.
Shatter specs might still want EF for the spike heal but tankier phantasm/PU builds are gonna be all over that signet
Phantasm builds will still take mantras because the mantra heal is in the same line as the phantasm buffing traits (they will prolly be the most likely to take the signet though for the active). PU builds are not viable in tournaments because the stealth decaps the point so the PU mesmer isn’t going to be doing much in tPvP for the team. Also PU doesn’t use phantasms very often because most of the damage comes from staff clones or clone bleed procs so the active isn’t really worth a kitten .
Restorative mantra is a 3k heal on top of the two heals you have, which can be activated even when cc’d and paired with the very traitline will remove more conditions.
MoR is the highest HPS heal for mesmer — it’s just not used because in order to use it you need to pair it with stealth or distortion, as D/P thief or warrior will CC the crap out of it, as can an engineer or a shortbow ranger.
Mantra simply do not have strong enough effects to justify the cast time, It’s a design that will have to be scrapped because if the effects are strong enough, people will complain mesmers precast them, but in sustained fights mantras will never happen.
And even as a tanky build you need spike defense because D/P thieves and warriors will still nuke you for half your health or more in a combo, so EF will be the go to heal.
I never got why Mantras had long cast times. They need 1.5 cast times like any pre-castable long-duration casts (Minions/pets/spirits/etc), and just keep a short cooldown. The fun in mantras is being able to use them a few times before enduring the cooldown, but they’re generally not super powerful and they still have cooldowns. I think the SUPER long cast time for mantras needs some revisiting. :/
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
The thing is, while you’re channeling a mantra, you’re not attacking. It’s also why mantra of pain is useless (besides its terrible damage) outside being a restorative mantra heal fodder.
Even at 1.5 sec channel it would mean 1.5 sec of not doing something else, and the ability needs to balance itself on that account.
Mesmer heal is crazy OP.
Necro heal is worse than pathetic. In groups, solo, pve, pve, wherever. The Necro heal is garbage.
Thief heal sucks but could be fun in a venomshare build.
Warrior and Guardian heals are pretty strong as expected.
Just a couple of points:
Thief heal can’t do that much damage, b/c max-burst thief is at a level that they like. Adding more damage to hits they do BECAUSE OF THE HEAL SKILL (thus increasing max burst), would go against that. Its a good idea, but to be stronger they would have to shave the hardest-hitting thief skills (like backstab) to keep things reasonable.
Necro is an interesting design for team-fights (where necros will make their money), but faces the severe problem that necros never wanted/needed more ways to destroy someone/do more damage. All they ever wanted was a few more ways to survive when they got jumped b4 building life-force. Once again, adding more ways to do damage just doesn’t solve the problem. Perhaps some creative team could find a use for the skill, although the long ICD certainly hurts it.
Ele heal is HIGHLY conflicted in its design. It wants to be used in melee range (240 range – haha), which would mean an s/d or d/d build would benefit most. However, these builds are forced to take ether renewal if they want to survive condis, or cleansing water and do no damage (thus being irrelevant). Staff ele could find use for blasting fields in support, but then you get no benefit from the damage when playing how you would want to (although staff ends up in melee occasionally, it certainly doesn’t want to be there). Perhaps an arcane build could use this – but that means giving up WAY better traits for traits that are “interesting” but no particularly “good.” Really, the only use is in wvw, when self-healing isn’t as necessary but the extra blast is relevant.
Wow, that Guardian heal!!
Epic.
That Necro heal is really bad… A-net trolled us again.
But hey, at least a cool red circle pops over someone’s head – that’s pretty much over powered in terms of aesthetics.
I give up.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
well.
when he announced new healing skills, i got excited and thought they were acknowledging that removing the healer role was overly ambitious for the time, and bringing a much needed support dynamic into the game.
so dissapointed i guess?
The thing is, while you’re channeling a mantra, you’re not attacking. It’s also why mantra of pain is useless (besides its terrible damage) outside being a restorative mantra heal fodder.
Even at 1.5 sec channel it would mean 1.5 sec of not doing something else, and the ability needs to balance itself on that account.
The way i look at Pain is I’m saving the damage I would doing now to add to a spike later. I do think mantras could do with a rework, fun for 1v1 or just focusing on sustain or spike but still falls down when there are multiple things going on. They have poor battle flow and take up the mesmer’s most valuable skil bar slots.
Water Spirit is probably one of the worse heals ive seen next to the new necro one. Just tested it out the icd is too long for the passive and the active barely scales with healing power + the fact that its 25 skill points = Useless
[url=https://] [/url]
Water Spirit is probably one of the worse heals ive seen next to the new necro one. Just tested it out the icd is too long for the passive and the active barely scales with healing power + the fact that its 25 skill points = Useless
U want to try out defiant stance? Obvious animation+green numbers pop on enemy screen.
Guardian heal works great against golems. Against other players…not so much. Shelter>Signet>Healing Breeze\litany
Thief heal is good.
Water Spirit is probably one of the worse heals ive seen next to the new necro one. Just tested it out the icd is too long for the passive and the active barely scales with healing power + the fact that its 25 skill points = Useless
U want to try out defiant stance? Obvious animation+green numbers pop on enemy screen.
Lol nah Ill stick with healing sig whenever i play warrior. Atleast AED is kinda cool 12k heal
[url=https://] [/url]