Zerk changes that should be on balance patch

Zerk changes that should be on balance patch

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Posted by: Mrbig.8019

Mrbig.8019

It’s basically clear that we have this meta because zerk proffs just don’t work.

Cele builds basically deal the same amount of damage zerk builds go mostly due to them being OBLIGATED to stack as much defensive mechanics as they can ( 2-0-0-6-6 thief is the clear example) and due to the fact mes is the only proff with decet boon removal, but being too easily focused in team fights by random condition spamming.

So in order to bring back zerk builds, there are few changes that should be in there

THIEF


Merge daze on steal with mug, remove CD reduction

This is actually balanced by steal being back on 35 secs CD instead of 21 ( current steal is op as kitten) and having no more boon removal since no one will put traits into trickery anymore.

For god’s sake rewamp this useless trait line, people build into trickery ONLY for Bounthiful and Sleight.


Larcenous removing 2 boons

It makes no sense to have it to 1 boon since now you have to hit with Flanking in order to get Larcenous.

It made sense pre FS-LS chain nerf, now it doesn’t

Mesmer


Bountiful interruption

Change it from “and gain another random boon” to “STEAL A BOON FROM YOUR ENEMY”


Chaotin interruption

Remove the “random condi” thing, replace it with “heal X when u interrupt”, just like Mug


Shatters

Reduce all shatter CDs by 15 %

Reduce Illusions trait line reduction per point from 5% to 3%

Reasoning:

Rupt mes is uber strong, but no one plays it over shatter because

1 you deal less damage

2 shatter CDs are too long

3 you’re not that more survivable than common shatter

4 you give up on portal

These changes will bring 1 viable mes build to the table, without changing shatter which already does good.

Guard


Change “Searing flames” from 1 boon to 2 boons

Reasoning:

Common meta builds wouldn’t go for this trait because it’s weak.

Guard has no other boon removal option, it’s time to bring some.

They would give up on vigor for this, or condi removal.

Moreover, it prioritizes might ( thx god).

Seems balanced.

Necro


Last gasp

CD reduced to 35 secs


Reaper protection

Duration down from 2 secs to 1 sec


Wells

CDs reduced by 20 %


Necrotic gasp

Projectile velocity increased to be on par AT LEAST with ranger LB.

Basically….

QoL changes to remove must haves, and increase a much needed boon hate.

This with a slight cele nerf would hugely shift the meta.

Gratz, bye.

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Posted by: Valentin.2073

Valentin.2073

Lol……….

…..

PVP Ranger: Prince Valentine, PVP Warrior: Prince of Hearts I, and PVP Mesmer: Prince Valentine I

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Posted by: Lordrosicky.5813

Lordrosicky.5813

Not sure repears prot is that good.

I personally think 4 6 0 0 4 is the best condi necro spec.

If 06404 then greater marks is pretty good too.

Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.

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Posted by: Mrbig.8019

Mrbig.8019

Not sure repears prot is that good.

I personally think 4 6 0 0 4 is the best condi necro spec.

If 06404 then greater marks is pretty good too.

Helps nec not being focused.

But the real prob is it being totally passive and braindead, 1 random bleed and you’re feared for 3+ secs for 3k random damage.

Both it and and nightmare runes need nerf.

The buff on necrotic grasp is quite good so necs won’t struggle on life force gen due to a sub-optimal auto and we can go back to proper builds like the one u listed.

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Posted by: Sagat.3285

Sagat.3285

Wut… lol… please remove all “zerker” ‘s from the thread those are not zerker only related changes and the thread falls apart. Balance changes every 2-3 months would do the trick if they haven’t realised it yet.

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread

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Posted by: Morwath.9817

Morwath.9817

Not sure repears prot is that good.

I personally think 4 6 0 0 4 is the best condi necro spec.

If 06404 then greater marks is pretty good too.

Helps nec not being focused.

But the real prob is it being totally passive and braindead, 1 random bleed and you’re feared for 3+ secs for 3k random damage.

Both it and and nightmare runes need nerf.

The buff on necrotic grasp is quite good so necs won’t struggle on life force gen due to a sub-optimal auto and we can go back to proper builds like the one u listed.

Yes. Nerf Necros and buff Eles and Engis.

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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

I totally don’t Gree with these proposed changes, even though I am ok with changes to berserker builds. Personally, I’d just tone down the offensive stats on the berserker amulet and increase the vitality so that pure glass builds aren’t so high dmg.

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Posted by: Mrbig.8019

Mrbig.8019

I totally don’t Gree with these proposed changes, even though I am ok with changes to berserker builds. Personally, I’d just tone down the offensive stats on the berserker amulet and increase the vitality so that pure glass builds aren’t so high dmg.

Wat.

zerk survivability has nothing to do with vitality.

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Posted by: Arken.3725

Arken.3725

I totally don’t Gree with these proposed changes, even though I am ok with changes to berserker builds. Personally, I’d just tone down the offensive stats on the berserker amulet and increase the vitality so that pure glass builds aren’t so high dmg.

What? We haven’t had a zerker meta since the game’s creation. Nearly every iteration of balance has been leaning towards more tankiness. Instead of relying on reaction timing/ reading your opponent, it’s now possible to tank while maintaining near zerker-levels of dmg. The whole risk/reward has been thrown out the window.

(edited by Arken.3725)

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Posted by: Mrbig.8019

Mrbig.8019

I totally don’t Gree with these proposed changes, even though I am ok with changes to berserker builds. Personally, I’d just tone down the offensive stats on the berserker amulet and increase the vitality so that pure glass builds aren’t so high dmg.

What? We haven’t had a zerker meta since the game’s creation. Nearly every iteration of balance has been leaning towards more tankiness. Instead of relying on reaction timing/ reading your opponent, it’s now possible to tank while maintaining near zerker-levels of dmg. The whole risk/reward has been thrown out the window.

The thing i saw in that post is basically “ye i’ve no clue about the game”.

Tbh current meta is not really about “tankiness” itself but more about “heal-boon-boon-boon-heal” ecc…

Engi goes down with a single spike , OP or not, same as shout war.

They mostly rely on boons ( especially ele-engi) in order to survive, and on very low damage of current zerk builds like 2-0-0-6-6 thief or panic strike.

Let’s start removing boons better.

Just shifting things here and there buffing boon hate would do the trick without having to buff zerk damage.

the issue, even with zerk proffs is they have too much sustain. I would start by nerfing their sustain ( aside guard, which needs it) so they’ll gear toward damage again.

(edited by Mrbig.8019)

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Posted by: Arken.3725

Arken.3725

It’s a mix really. The amount of boon uptime plus the innate defenses from some amulets allow for such sustainable play.

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Posted by: Simon.3794

Simon.3794

Your thief changes..

first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.

2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.

and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….

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Posted by: Mrbig.8019

Mrbig.8019

Your thief changes..

first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.

2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.

and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….

it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.

Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.

there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.

And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.

You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.

Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.

S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.

All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.

And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.

Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

OP do you even know why people take trickery?…….

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

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Posted by: Mrbig.8019

Mrbig.8019

OP do you even know why people take trickery?…….

Pls tell me

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Posted by: Simon.3794

Simon.3794

Your thief changes..

first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.

2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.

and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….

it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.

Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.

there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.

And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.

You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.

Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.

S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.

All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.

And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.

Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.

i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.

boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.

and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.

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Posted by: Mrbig.8019

Mrbig.8019

Your thief changes..

first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.

2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.

and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….

it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.

Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.

there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.

And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.

You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.

Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.

S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.

All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.

And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.

Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.

i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.

boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.

and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.

on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.

5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u

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Posted by: Simon.3794

Simon.3794

Your thief changes..

first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.

2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.

and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….

it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.

Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.

there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.

And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.

You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.

Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.

S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.

All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.

And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.

Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.

i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.

boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.

and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.

on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.

5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u

See? you might not need to go 4 in trickery anymore if you also receive 2 boon rip from larce buff.

. you will have way better boon rip, tankier, and better damage (2 signet with might)
and what will DP do?

way off in boon rip after steal CD nerf, less tanky even with embrace, less disengage, less everything.

right now pretty much DP out burst SD, less sustain less tanky and SD can do more sustain damage and a bit more boon rip, if we apply your buff, sd will completely dominate

(edited by Simon.3794)

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Posted by: Simon.3794

Simon.3794

SD simply can not do that much damage, rip more boon then current SD but without bountiful for that 6 point in acrobat

DP either completely give up boon rip or give up a lot of damage to go shadow rejuv.

(edited by Simon.3794)

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Posted by: Mrbig.8019

Mrbig.8019

Your thief changes..

first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.

2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.

and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….

it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.

Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.

there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.

And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.

You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.

Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.

S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.

All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.

And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.

Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.

i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.

boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.

and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.

on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.

5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u

See? you might not need to go 4 in trickery anymore if you also receive 2 boon rip from larce buff.

. you will have way better boon rip, tankier, and better damage (2 signet with might)
and what will DP do?

way off in boon rip after steal CD nerf, less tanky even with embrace, less disengage, less everything.

right now pretty much DP out burst SD, less sustain less tanky and SD can do more sustain damage and a bit more boon rip, if we apply your buff, sd will completely dominate

D/P 6-6-2 or 5-6-0-0-3 can do 10 k backstabs.

I wouldn’t call that “not viable”.

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Posted by: Simon.3794

Simon.3794

Your thief changes..

first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.

2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.

and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….

it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.

Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.

there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.

And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.

You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.

Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.

S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.

All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.

And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.

Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.

i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.

boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.

and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.

on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.

5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u

See? you might not need to go 4 in trickery anymore if you also receive 2 boon rip from larce buff.

. you will have way better boon rip, tankier, and better damage (2 signet with might)
and what will DP do?

way off in boon rip after steal CD nerf, less tanky even with embrace, less disengage, less everything.

right now pretty much DP out burst SD, less sustain less tanky and SD can do more sustain damage and a bit more boon rip, if we apply your buff, sd will completely dominate

D/P 6-6-2 or 5-6-0-0-3 can do 10 k backstabs.

I wouldn’t call that “not viable”.

thief without boon rip is not a viable thief…- -..
i think you don’t understand viability is not determined by how yolo this build is how much more damage this build can do, if so i would just go 4 signet and backstab people for 13 14k and ill be god. gg wp

another thing
6 IN FREAKING ACROBAT!

(edited by Simon.3794)

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Posted by: Mrbig.8019

Mrbig.8019

Your thief changes..

first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.

2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.

and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….

it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.

Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.

there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.

And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.

You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.

Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.

S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.

All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.

And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.

Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.

i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.

boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.

and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.

on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.

5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u

See? you might not need to go 4 in trickery anymore if you also receive 2 boon rip from larce buff.

. you will have way better boon rip, tankier, and better damage (2 signet with might)
and what will DP do?

way off in boon rip after steal CD nerf, less tanky even with embrace, less disengage, less everything.

right now pretty much DP out burst SD, less sustain less tanky and SD can do more sustain damage and a bit more boon rip, if we apply your buff, sd will completely dominate

D/P 6-6-2 or 5-6-0-0-3 can do 10 k backstabs.

I wouldn’t call that “not viable”.

thief without boon rip is not a viable thief…- -..

Current D/P thief rips 2 boons every 20 secs.

Much rip

very wow

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Posted by: Simon.3794

Simon.3794

Your thief changes..

first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.

2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.

and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….

it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.

Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.

there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.

And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.

You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.

Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.

S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.

All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.

And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.

Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.

i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.

boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.

and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.

on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.

5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u

See? you might not need to go 4 in trickery anymore if you also receive 2 boon rip from larce buff.

. you will have way better boon rip, tankier, and better damage (2 signet with might)
and what will DP do?

way off in boon rip after steal CD nerf, less tanky even with embrace, less disengage, less everything.

right now pretty much DP out burst SD, less sustain less tanky and SD can do more sustain damage and a bit more boon rip, if we apply your buff, sd will completely dominate

D/P 6-6-2 or 5-6-0-0-3 can do 10 k backstabs.

I wouldn’t call that “not viable”.

thief without boon rip is not a viable thief…- -..

Current D/P thief rips 2 boons every 20 secs.

Much rip

very wow

and the second best boon rip that is in the meta next to SD thief
wtb logic.

(edited by Simon.3794)

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Posted by: Mrbig.8019

Mrbig.8019

Your thief changes..

first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.

2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.

and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….

it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.

Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.

there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.

And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.

You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.

Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.

S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.

All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.

And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.

Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.

i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.

boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.

and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.

on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.

5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u

See? you might not need to go 4 in trickery anymore if you also receive 2 boon rip from larce buff.

. you will have way better boon rip, tankier, and better damage (2 signet with might)
and what will DP do?

way off in boon rip after steal CD nerf, less tanky even with embrace, less disengage, less everything.

right now pretty much DP out burst SD, less sustain less tanky and SD can do more sustain damage and a bit more boon rip, if we apply your buff, sd will completely dominate

D/P 6-6-2 or 5-6-0-0-3 can do 10 k backstabs.

I wouldn’t call that “not viable”.

thief without boon rip is not a viable thief…- -..

Current D/P thief rips 2 boons every 20 secs.

Much rip

very wow

and the second best boon rip that is in the meta next to SD thief
your point?

give the guy with the most boon rip moar boon rip, not enough! give him moar damage, moar damage!
give the guy with less boon rip less boon rip, not enough! also give him less damage, less damage i say!

such logic
much wow

I don’t see your point.

S/D thief will trade reduced steal + boon rip on steal+ vigor/might/swift/fury on steal for moar damage

D/P thief will have all those option available without losing that much OR could go full damage on 6-6-2 /5-6-0-0-3

You’ve no idea what you’re talking about really.

Thieves go full into trickery since it gives basically another heal every 21 secs + daze ripping stab and aegis ( which is bad design, since it’s uncounterable).

If you split the daze, thieves will still have the option to do, but could go for other things ( more damage, more surv ecc…)

it’s all about build variety instead of the boring panic strike or trickery acro kitten.

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Posted by: Simon.3794

Simon.3794

Your thief changes..

first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.

2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.

and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….

it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.

Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.

there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.

And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.

You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.

Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.

S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.

All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.

And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.

Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.

i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.

boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.

and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.

on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.

5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u

See? you might not need to go 4 in trickery anymore if you also receive 2 boon rip from larce buff.

. you will have way better boon rip, tankier, and better damage (2 signet with might)
and what will DP do?

way off in boon rip after steal CD nerf, less tanky even with embrace, less disengage, less everything.

right now pretty much DP out burst SD, less sustain less tanky and SD can do more sustain damage and a bit more boon rip, if we apply your buff, sd will completely dominate

D/P 6-6-2 or 5-6-0-0-3 can do 10 k backstabs.

I wouldn’t call that “not viable”.

so why arent these in the meta now?
logic, go, buy some, you need.

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Posted by: Mrbig.8019

Mrbig.8019

Your thief changes..

first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.

2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.

and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….

it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.

Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.

there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.

And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.

You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.

Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.

S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.

All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.

And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.

Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.

i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.

boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.

and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.

on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.

5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u

See? you might not need to go 4 in trickery anymore if you also receive 2 boon rip from larce buff.

. you will have way better boon rip, tankier, and better damage (2 signet with might)
and what will DP do?

way off in boon rip after steal CD nerf, less tanky even with embrace, less disengage, less everything.

right now pretty much DP out burst SD, less sustain less tanky and SD can do more sustain damage and a bit more boon rip, if we apply your buff, sd will completely dominate

D/P 6-6-2 or 5-6-0-0-3 can do 10 k backstabs.

I wouldn’t call that “not viable”.

so why arent these in the meta now?
logic, go, buy some, you need.

Cuz no trickery steal rofl.

that’s what should be fixed by balance patches instead of “nerfing” might rofl

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Posted by: Simon.3794

Simon.3794

Your thief changes..

first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.

2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.

and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….

it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.

Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.

there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.

And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.

You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.

Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.

S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.

All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.

And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.

Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.

i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.

boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.

and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.

on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.

5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u

See? you might not need to go 4 in trickery anymore if you also receive 2 boon rip from larce buff.

. you will have way better boon rip, tankier, and better damage (2 signet with might)
and what will DP do?

way off in boon rip after steal CD nerf, less tanky even with embrace, less disengage, less everything.

right now pretty much DP out burst SD, less sustain less tanky and SD can do more sustain damage and a bit more boon rip, if we apply your buff, sd will completely dominate

D/P 6-6-2 or 5-6-0-0-3 can do 10 k backstabs.

I wouldn’t call that “not viable”.

thief without boon rip is not a viable thief…- -..

Current D/P thief rips 2 boons every 20 secs.

Much rip

very wow

yes, that’s not much boon rip, so i guess this is the reason why you are giving S/D even more boon rip without the need even to trait for it right?

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Posted by: Simon.3794

Simon.3794

Your thief changes..

first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.

2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.

and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….

it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.

Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.

there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.

And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.

You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.

Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.

S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.

All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.

And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.

Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.

i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.

boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.

and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.

on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.

5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u

See? you might not need to go 4 in trickery anymore if you also receive 2 boon rip from larce buff.

. you will have way better boon rip, tankier, and better damage (2 signet with might)
and what will DP do?

way off in boon rip after steal CD nerf, less tanky even with embrace, less disengage, less everything.

right now pretty much DP out burst SD, less sustain less tanky and SD can do more sustain damage and a bit more boon rip, if we apply your buff, sd will completely dominate

D/P 6-6-2 or 5-6-0-0-3 can do 10 k backstabs.

I wouldn’t call that “not viable”.

so why arent these in the meta now?
logic, go, buy some, you need.

Cuz no trickery steal rofl.

that’s what should be fixed by balance patches instead of “nerfing” might rofl

Because trickery steal is only daze

such knowledge
much wow

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Posted by: Shintei.9061

Shintei.9061

I disagree with your mesmer changes (ignoring other proposed changes) :
bountiful interruption – why do you nerf it?
reduce shatters’ CD by 15% – lol? Can you do some calculations first?
reduce the reduction of shatters’ CD from illusion Trait line – I see what you did there. Let’s nerf shatter build to force people playing lockdown build. Nice job! That will work…maybe.

Besides that, I found your reasons behind these changes are quite…hilarious:
lockdown does less damage than shatter – what are you talking about? You don’t know how to deal damage as a lockdown mesmer, don’t you?
shatters’ CD are too long for lockdown build – lol? I confirm that you don’t know how to play lockdown build. This build is not built around shatters.
lockdown build has less survivability than shatter build – How? Mesmer’s survivability mainly comes from positioning and kiting. Those panic buttons will not save you forever. In fact, many mesmers have claimed that lockdown build has a higher chance to win against thieves, the hard counter for mesmers, than shatter build.
lockdown build gives up portal – So? There is a significant amount of shatter mesmers prefer mantra of resolve rather than portal, even in top tier team. Go check out Supcutie’s build.

The reason why top tier mesmers are not running the lockdown build is because they feel more comfortable with the shatter build that they have been using for a long time. Furthermore, it requires a lot of efforts and times to learn and to practice the lockdown build, since this build is totally different to shatter build. Your proposed mesmer changes make mesmers doubt your experience of mesmer.

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Posted by: Mrbig.8019

Mrbig.8019

Your thief changes..

first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.

2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.

and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….

it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.

Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.

there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.

And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.

You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.

Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.

S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.

All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.

And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.

Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.

i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.

boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.

and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.

on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.

5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u

See? you might not need to go 4 in trickery anymore if you also receive 2 boon rip from larce buff.

. you will have way better boon rip, tankier, and better damage (2 signet with might)
and what will DP do?

way off in boon rip after steal CD nerf, less tanky even with embrace, less disengage, less everything.

right now pretty much DP out burst SD, less sustain less tanky and SD can do more sustain damage and a bit more boon rip, if we apply your buff, sd will completely dominate

D/P 6-6-2 or 5-6-0-0-3 can do 10 k backstabs.

I wouldn’t call that “not viable”.

so why arent these in the meta now?
logic, go, buy some, you need.

Cuz no trickery steal rofl.

that’s what should be fixed by balance patches instead of “nerfing” might rofl

Because trickery steal is only daze

such knowledge
much wow

Infact trickery steal is not only a daze

it’s a boon rip
gives might/swift/fury/vigor
Heals
Poison

Can’t u see how unbalanced it is ? my main is thief and to me this kitten every 21 secs is totally broken.

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Posted by: MethaneGas.8357

MethaneGas.8357

Not sure repears prot is that good.

I personally think 4 6 0 0 4 is the best condi necro spec.

If 06404 then greater marks is pretty good too.

Helps nec not being focused.

But the real prob is it being totally passive and braindead, 1 random bleed and you’re feared for 3+ secs for 3k random damage.

Both it and and nightmare runes need nerf.

Nightmare runs and Reaper’s Protection are fine, and will remain fine after the rune change.

Necro, Ele, Mesmer, Guardian and Warrior, DR[OHai]
YouTube Channel

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Posted by: Sube Dai.8496

Sube Dai.8496

There is a valid point here and that is that defensive trait setups are used by both zerk and celestial alike.

Defensive amulets with aggressive traits tends to provide less damage and defense than zerk ammy with defensive traits.

John Snowman [GLTY]
Space Marine Z [GLTY]

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Posted by: Simon.3794

Simon.3794

Your thief changes..

first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.

2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.

and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….

it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.

Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.

there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.

And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.

You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.

Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.

S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.

All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.

And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.

Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.

i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.

boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.

and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.

on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.

5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u

See? you might not need to go 4 in trickery anymore if you also receive 2 boon rip from larce buff.

. you will have way better boon rip, tankier, and better damage (2 signet with might)
and what will DP do?

way off in boon rip after steal CD nerf, less tanky even with embrace, less disengage, less everything.

right now pretty much DP out burst SD, less sustain less tanky and SD can do more sustain damage and a bit more boon rip, if we apply your buff, sd will completely dominate

D/P 6-6-2 or 5-6-0-0-3 can do 10 k backstabs.

I wouldn’t call that “not viable”.

so why arent these in the meta now?
logic, go, buy some, you need.

Cuz no trickery steal rofl.

that’s what should be fixed by balance patches instead of “nerfing” might rofl

Because trickery steal is only daze

such knowledge
much wow

Infact trickery steal is not only a daze

it’s a boon rip
gives might/swift/fury/vigor
Heals
Poison

Can’t u see how unbalanced it is ? my main is thief and to me this kitten every 21 secs is totally broken.

yea, dude, i was totally not being sarcastic
let me quote you
“move daze to mug problem solved”

such knowledge
much wow.

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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

I totally don’t Gree with these proposed changes, even though I am ok with changes to berserker builds. Personally, I’d just tone down the offensive stats on the berserker amulet and increase the vitality so that pure glass builds aren’t so high dmg.

What? We haven’t had a zerker meta since the game’s creation. Nearly every iteration of balance has been leaning towards more tankiness. Instead of relying on reaction timing/ reading your opponent, it’s now possible to tank while maintaining near zerker-levels of dmg. The whole risk/reward has been thrown out the window.

Yes, zerker is not the meta, but zerker builds are what shape the meta. If zerker builds didn’t hit so hard, teams wouldn’t need to stock full of celestial/tanky players.

And the reason I said that the zerk amulet should have more survivability is because you’d have to add it in if you took out some of the damage. Otherwise there would be no reason for anyone to use that amulet.

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Posted by: xDudisx.5914

xDudisx.5914

There are so many stats out of the meta. Who said zerker is the priority or should be?
I dont see anyone running knights, valkryrie, assassin, barbarian, etc…

Ouroboro Knight’s [OK]

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

There are so many stats out of the meta. Who said zerker is the priority or should be?
I dont see anyone running knights, valkryrie, assassin, barbarian, etc…

ppl did run different amys before celestial got buffed the way it is now

I totally don’t Gree with these proposed changes, even though I am ok with changes to berserker builds. Personally, I’d just tone down the offensive stats on the berserker amulet and increase the vitality so that pure glass builds aren’t so high dmg.

What? We haven’t had a zerker meta since the game’s creation. Nearly every iteration of balance has been leaning towards more tankiness. Instead of relying on reaction timing/ reading your opponent, it’s now possible to tank while maintaining near zerker-levels of dmg. The whole risk/reward has been thrown out the window.

Yes, zerker is not the meta, but zerker builds are what shape the meta. If zerker builds didn’t hit so hard, teams wouldn’t need to stock full of celestial/tanky players.

And the reason I said that the zerk amulet should have more survivability is because you’d have to add it in if you took out some of the damage. Otherwise there would be no reason for anyone to use that amulet.

you forget the condi builds (cough old dhumfire necros for example)… zerkers are not only reason ppl play tanky build… let’s assume zerkers would get removed, everyone would just run condis and soldier builds…

tbh meta is more shaped by the game mode where it rewards you for holding point which tank specs happend to do best

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

(edited by Cynz.9437)

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Posted by: NeXeD.3042

NeXeD.3042

Not sure repears prot is that good.

I personally think 4 6 0 0 4 is the best condi necro spec.

If 06404 then greater marks is pretty good too.

Helps nec not being focused.

But the real prob is it being totally passive and braindead, 1 random bleed and you’re feared for 3+ secs for 3k random damage.

Both it and and nightmare runes need nerf.

Nightmare runs and Reaper’s Protection are fine, and will remain fine after the rune change.

Theives dont like it because it counters their normally uncounterable attack.

Attention Moderators I am not
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA

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Posted by: FrownyClown.8402

FrownyClown.8402

zerkers are fine. the bads that play cele have an advantage over the bads that play zerker. higher tier play you don’t see as bad as a difference because its a team game, not a 1v1 game.


Bad Elementalist

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Posted by: Mrbig.8019

Mrbig.8019

Your thief changes..

first of all, even you merge daze with mug, people will still go at least 4 for bountiful, because it’s just that important.

2 spare points for w/e, you can stay in trickery for more initiative, or better condition remove with embrace or more damage in crit or deadly art line.

and i also believe that it’s huge nerf to DP and big buff for SD, even tho SD is more tanky build…so that’s … not good…and larce used to remove 2 boon and it was nerfed because it was too op….

it was nerfed because FS-LS was automatic and costed 3 ini.

Now it costs 4 ini and you have to LAND FS in order to get LS.

there’s absolutely no need for it to remove 1 boon in its current iteration.

And at best it’s a BUFF to D/P, not the opposite.

You could go 2-6-2-0-4, or 6-6-2, or “gud ol’ time” 5-6-0-0-3.

Current panic strike build could still be an option for those who want more survivability instead of damage.

S/D will be back to 2-6-0-6-0 instead of the kitten build we’re currently playing.

All those builds are relatively balanced, all other classes receveid significant buffs so they’re not really “uber tier” anymore.

And mes was viable even when thieves were oneshotting bunker guards, so “mes will be destroyed by thieves” is so wrong : the thing that made thief vs mes match up so bad had been the ridicolous buffs to steal ended in pitch with “sleight of hand” cd reduction.

Current thief builds rely on this for everything right now: it’s time to stop this non sense.

i could go 26204 but my ability to strip boons will be wayyyy off compare to SD which is also more tanky and more sustained.

boon stripping plays a big part in thief viability in team comp.

and SD will never go back to 26060 as long as there are fire air to backup their damage
again, boon stripping is just that good.

on 2-6-0-6-0 with S/D i can hit 7 k with larcenous strike alone.

5 might stacks on signet use would like a word with u

See? you might not need to go 4 in trickery anymore if you also receive 2 boon rip from larce buff.

. you will have way better boon rip, tankier, and better damage (2 signet with might)
and what will DP do?

way off in boon rip after steal CD nerf, less tanky even with embrace, less disengage, less everything.

right now pretty much DP out burst SD, less sustain less tanky and SD can do more sustain damage and a bit more boon rip, if we apply your buff, sd will completely dominate

D/P 6-6-2 or 5-6-0-0-3 can do 10 k backstabs.

I wouldn’t call that “not viable”.

so why arent these in the meta now?
logic, go, buy some, you need.

Cuz no trickery steal rofl.

that’s what should be fixed by balance patches instead of “nerfing” might rofl

Because trickery steal is only daze

such knowledge
much wow

Infact trickery steal is not only a daze

it’s a boon rip
gives might/swift/fury/vigor
Heals
Poison

Can’t u see how unbalanced it is ? my main is thief and to me this kitten every 21 secs is totally broken.

yea, dude, i was totally not being sarcastic
let me quote you
“move daze to mug problem solved”

such knowledge
much wow.

If u had played a thief for at least 2 minutes you would know that the very reason why thieves go into trickery is having a stab ripping-uncounterable daze.

When cele wasn’t out of whack, trickery D/P ( 2-6-0-0-6) and acro S/D ( 2-6-0-6-0) were equally played, nobody would ever run trickery acro S/D or panic strike cuz THEY SUCK BALLS.

Right now every thief build needs trickery cheese in order to survive.

It’s time to nerf it and going back to skillful play.