Guild Wars 2

As title says, my suggoestion is to add sinister, dire and nomads amulets for spvp.

Anet has already added assassin, magi, sentinel and cavelier. Next step is add all the stats that we are still missing. Even if they create new op/meta builds it can be fixed later and will give us more options and diversity.

We also need rune of perplexity to be available in spvp. If they feel it is op in spvp it could get a nerf across all game modes.

I wouldn’t mind more amulets.

And rune of perplexity doesn’t seem too bad.

dire amulet would be awful, as would perplexity runes. there is a reason these op stats are not in pvp.

sinister and zealot yes, dire and nomad definitely no

I’d like to see a true Valkyrie amulet added with power, vitality and ferocity. I’m not sure why the pvp version has toughness and healing power when it’s not like that in PvE/WvW. My medi guardian has a build just dying to get a hold of it (2/6/6/0/0).

Nothing would be worse than cele, go for it.

Yes. And aristocracy, tormenting and evasion runes too.

Bhawb.7408:

Nothing would be worse than cele, go for it.

Say that when invincible nomad eles/warriors become possible in PvP.

alvarez.3159:

sinister and zealot yes, dire and nomad definitely no

This. And while youre at it, if you add dire and nomad, lets add perplexity to pvp and make this game super fun!

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

alvarez.3159:

sinister and zealot yes, dire and nomad definitely no

This. And while youre at it, if you add dire and nomad, lets add perplexity to pvp and make this game super fun!

Might as well add food if we’re going that way.

Some stuff should be here tough, Sigil of Mischief,Runes of the Defender etc. Some may argue what’s not in pvp is OP but a lot of unused customization is missing let pvp have a taste of it. I do want my Sigils of Mischief.

We need power main stat, a bit of crit damage, a bit of crit, a bit of toughness, and a bit of VIT as well. The amulet system currently makes there be less viable builds and really holds the game back.

perplexity lol

i don’t even…

nvm

I think with the addition of perplexity runes to pvp
confusion damage in pvp should be buffed too to be on par with pve

Sinister and Zealot would be awesome, Dire might be too strong, nomad would just make it bunker wars 2. I’m all for sigil of mischief in pvp.

Sinister and Zealot are good amulets. Dire and Nomads are awful amulets. Sentinel should never have been added either really.

Shiyo.3578:

We need power main stat, a bit of crit damage, a bit of crit, a bit of toughness, and a bit of VIT as well. The amulet system currently makes there be less viable builds and really holds the game back.

This 100×.

anyone suggesting dire and perpexity have either never fought these in wvw, or play them in wvw and want their easymode cheese in pvp. normally i’m not one to scream OP, but dire are perplex just are.

I’d love to see Rune of the Trapper be added to PvP. That would give the trapper ranger build a nice boost.

choovanski.5462:

anyone suggesting dire and perpexity have either never fought these in wvw, or play them in wvw and want their easymode cheese in pvp. normally i’m not one to scream OP, but dire are perplex just are.

Adding dire and perplexity to spvp would bring the devs attention to the issue and it would be fixed very fast. The reason it is not touched is because no one cares about wvw/pve balance wise.

Diversity is nice, but it should never take priority over balance in a competitive game.

No thanks, Dire would ruin the meta and make everyone play a condi bunker.

Reikou.7068:

Diversity is nice, but it should never take priority over balance in a competitive game.

When diversity is low, it’s hard to achieve Perfect Imbalance. If a small group of “balanced” options is always best, the game gets stale quickly. You need a large enough pool of options such that none is always the best.

Adding stat diversity is often confused with adding a considerable permutations to the balance space. This is a bad way to analyze it. Instead, you need to look at stats as a multidimensional tradespace. Because the total amount of stats is fixed, the extremes are known, and are pretty much what we have now. If an extreme is not overly powerful at any one aspect, then something between the extremes is unlikely to be as well. You can also consider perfect balance (celestial) as another test point in the trade space.

The only negative impact which an increase on stat diversity would have on balance is that it creates many more viable builds. This isn’t necessarily a bad problem to have. Some might be overpowered, but how is that any worse than the current state with a few exceptionally strong builds and less build diversity?

A good example of the shortcomings of the current system is with offensive power builds. In order for a power damage build to work, it needs a lot of power, since this gives the biggest return per point, a decent amount of precision (crit chance) and some ferocity (crit damage). That’s what berserker has. However, few builds have a lot of escapes (e.g. thief) or heavy damage reduction. This makes them fall victim to berserker builds which have ample survivability from the profession skills. So most professions would also want some survivability. The best increase per point at low armor levels would be Toughness. On a light armor profession, a few hundred points can get you 15% damage reduction.

The other amulet choices provide excessive amounts of survivability, often in a poor balance, and lack damage. Soldier, Valkyrie, Knight, Barbarian, Cavalier. With no precision or no ferocity and lower power, the build just doesn’t have the damage to pressure a target.

Using runes is not a good solution either. Runes provide +175 to the primary stat, which usually isn’t enough. Additionally, the effects on runes are valuable to many builds, so they lose that benefit. And lastly, using a non-power rune significantly decreases damage output, especially for builds which don’t go into their power trait line.

A experiment which could “easily” be done in the interim is to add a 50% Berserker 50% Soldier amulet. In theory, that would enable more offensive builds which are currently too weak against thieves.

tl;dr:
add more options.
observe how people compete with / against it.
care about balance later.

Exedore.6320:

Reikou.7068:

Diversity is nice, but it should never take priority over balance in a competitive game.

When diversity is low, it’s hard to achieve Perfect Imbalance. If a small group of “balanced” options is always best, the game gets stale quickly. You need a large enough pool of options such that none is always the best.

Adding stat diversity is often confused with adding a considerable permutations to the balance space. This is a bad way to analyze it. Instead, you need to look at stats as a multidimensional tradespace. Because the total amount of stats is fixed, the extremes are known, and are pretty much what we have now. If an extreme is not overly powerful at any one aspect, then something between the extremes is unlikely to be as well. You can also consider perfect balance (celestial) as another test point in the trade space.

The only negative impact which an increase on stat diversity would have on balance is that it creates many more viable builds. This isn’t necessarily a bad problem to have. Some might be overpowered, but how is that any worse than the current state with a few exceptionally strong builds and less build diversity?

A good example of the shortcomings of the current system is with offensive power builds. In order for a power damage build to work, it needs a lot of power, since this gives the biggest return per point, a decent amount of precision (crit chance) and some ferocity (crit damage). That’s what berserker has. However, few builds have a lot of escapes (e.g. thief) or heavy damage reduction. This makes them fall victim to berserker builds which have ample survivability from the profession skills. So most professions would also want some survivability. The best increase per point at low armor levels would be Toughness. On a light armor profession, a few hundred points can get you 15% damage reduction.

The other amulet choices provide excessive amounts of survivability, often in a poor balance, and lack damage. Soldier, Valkyrie, Knight, Barbarian, Cavalier. With no precision or no ferocity and lower power, the build just doesn’t have the damage to pressure a target.

Using runes is not a good solution either. Runes provide +175 to the primary stat, which usually isn’t enough. Additionally, the effects on runes are valuable to many builds, so they lose that benefit. And lastly, using a non-power rune significantly decreases damage output, especially for builds which don’t go into their power trait line.

A experiment which could “easily” be done in the interim is to add a 50% Berserker 50% Soldier amulet. In theory, that would enable more offensive builds which are currently too weak against thieves.

Normally from a casual point of view I would tend to agree with you. At that level keeping the game itself fun, varied and interesting is important. However from a competitive point of view, diversity at the cost of balance is definitely not worth it as these should be games of skill, not who plays the most broken builds.

One could argue competiton of skill could come from who runs the most broken builds the best… but then we’re back to the “problem” of lack of diversity.

Exedore.6320:

Reikou.7068:

Diversity is nice, but it should never take priority over balance in a competitive game.

When diversity is low, it’s hard to achieve Perfect Imbalance. If a small group of “balanced” options is always best, the game gets stale quickly. You need a large enough pool of options such that none is always the best.

Adding stat diversity is often confused with adding a considerable permutations to the balance space. This is a bad way to analyze it. Instead, you need to look at stats as a multidimensional tradespace. Because the total amount of stats is fixed, the extremes are known, and are pretty much what we have now. If an extreme is not overly powerful at any one aspect, then something between the extremes is unlikely to be as well. You can also consider perfect balance (celestial) as another test point in the trade space.

The only negative impact which an increase on stat diversity would have on balance is that it creates many more viable builds. This isn’t necessarily a bad problem to have. Some might be overpowered, but how is that any worse than the current state with a few exceptionally strong builds and less build diversity?

A good example of the shortcomings of the current system is with offensive power builds. In order for a power damage build to work, it needs a lot of power, since this gives the biggest return per point, a decent amount of precision (crit chance) and some ferocity (crit damage). That’s what berserker has. However, few builds have a lot of escapes (e.g. thief) or heavy damage reduction. This makes them fall victim to berserker builds which have ample survivability from the profession skills. So most professions would also want some survivability. The best increase per point at low armor levels would be Toughness. On a light armor profession, a few hundred points can get you 15% damage reduction.

The other amulet choices provide excessive amounts of survivability, often in a poor balance, and lack damage. Soldier, Valkyrie, Knight, Barbarian, Cavalier. With no precision or no ferocity and lower power, the build just doesn’t have the damage to pressure a target.

Using runes is not a good solution either. Runes provide +175 to the primary stat, which usually isn’t enough. Additionally, the effects on runes are valuable to many builds, so they lose that benefit. And lastly, using a non-power rune significantly decreases damage output, especially for builds which don’t go into their power trait line.

A experiment which could “easily” be done in the interim is to add a 50% Berserker 50% Soldier amulet. In theory, that would enable more offensive builds which are currently too weak against thieves.

Normally from a casual point of view I would tend to agree with you. The concept of imperfect balance itself is meant for the casual gamer as at that level keeping the game itself fun, varied and interesting is important. However from a competitive point of view, diversity at the cost of balance is definitely not worth it as these should be games of skill, not who plays the most broken builds.

One could argue competiton of skill could come from who runs the most broken builds the best… but then we’re back to the “problem” of lack of diversity.

xDudisx.5914:

choovanski.5462:

anyone suggesting dire and perpexity have either never fought these in wvw, or play them in wvw and want their easymode cheese in pvp. normally i’m not one to scream OP, but dire are perplex just are.

Adding dire and perplexity to spvp would bring the devs attention to the issue and it would be fixed very fast. The reason it is not touched is because no one cares about wvw/pve balance wise.

the only way you could fix dire and perpexity is by deleting them, so they would just have to be removed. pointless.

condi bunkers coming to pvp!

pepper.6179:

condi bunkers coming to pvp!

Really? We are already there and it could never be worse. Cele engi, ele and warrior are far worse in this respect that any dire spec could ever be. You die in this game to burns from these cele specs. Thay have a ton of condis and are real bunkers due to their healing. This is why necro has to run carrion now, with rabid you just die to random burn and bleed which is very strong and applied very frequently.

Serdoc.7261:

No thanks, Dire would ruin the meta and make everyone play a condi bunker.

That’s the exact reason why they SHOULD be added to spvp. So it can finally get the nerfs it deserves in wvw. Pretty much everyone in wvw is a condi bunker with perplexity. something needs to be done about it. And anet doesnt give a crap about wvw, so the only way we can see this OP crap nerfed is if they put it into spvp. So i’m all in favor of adding dire and perplexity in for the sole purpose of them being nerfed finally.

Nikkinella.8254:

That’s the exact reason why they SHOULD be added to spvp. So it can finally get the nerfs it deserves in wvw. Pretty much everyone in wvw is a condi bunker with perplexity. something needs to be done about it. And anet doesnt give a crap about wvw, so the only way we can see this OP crap nerfed is if they put it into spvp. So i’m all in favor of adding dire and perplexity in for the sole purpose of them being nerfed finally.

People here don’t want to sacrifice 6 months just for anet to shave this rune in wvw.

rotten.9753:

Nikkinella.8254:

That’s the exact reason why they SHOULD be added to spvp. So it can finally get the nerfs it deserves in wvw. Pretty much everyone in wvw is a condi bunker with perplexity. something needs to be done about it. And anet doesnt give a crap about wvw, so the only way we can see this OP crap nerfed is if they put it into spvp. So i’m all in favor of adding dire and perplexity in for the sole purpose of them being nerfed finally.

People here don’t want to sacrifice 6 months just for anet to shave this rune in wvw.

agreed. anet can just nerf them for wvw, we don’t need them destroying pvp for 6 or so months. dire necromancers would make engineer and unviable class even when running dire itself, and dire condi warriors? oh my goodness the kind of cheese you can build with dire is astounding! keep dire out of pvp.

Dire and perplex… GO AWAY. PLEASE NO.
We don’t need to see things like they are in wvw, perplex SA thieves 1v5’ing.

they really should just have seperate balance for wvw and spvp anyway. then you guys wouldn’t have to suffer through perplexity runes, and neither would we. But for now, the only way we can get them balanced in wvw is you do have to deal with the ridiculous crap we do. so, im still in favor of dire and perplexity in pvp just so we no longer have to suffer alone.

Nikkinella.8254:

That’s the exact reason why they SHOULD be added to spvp. So it can finally get the nerfs it deserves in wvw.

That’s a WvW problem, not a PvP problem.

Dire seems so bad in WvW because you have +40% condition duration food, higher total stats, and access to more conditions than you do in PvP (perplexity runes, necro abilities have more bleeds).

Dire in PvP .. because Coni Necros and Engis aren’t strong enough with Rabid and Carrion we need to give them the cheese Dire stat too

No -.-, WvW Roaming has enough cancer there let’s not spread it to PvP

Reikou.7068:

However from a competitive point of view, diversity at the cost of balance is definitely not worth it as these should be games of skill, not who plays the most broken builds.

Diversity does NOT mean that balance is ignored. Proper diversity means that a given build or composition is not the best each and every time.

I don’t see why people think nomad would be op. It will just be a bunker that can’t kill anyone in a 1v1. Only thing they will be able to do is bunker down a point that is already capped. The amulet would probably be underpowered. Still it is good to have more options.

Sinister would be our only good hibrid offensive option. I would rather fight a sinister engi than a celestial one.

I don’t think any of the suggested amulets would be more op than zerker/celestial for some classes.

rotten.9753:

Nikkinella.8254:

That’s the exact reason why they SHOULD be added to spvp. So it can finally get the nerfs it deserves in wvw. Pretty much everyone in wvw is a condi bunker with perplexity. something needs to be done about it. And anet doesnt give a crap about wvw, so the only way we can see this OP crap nerfed is if they put it into spvp. So i’m all in favor of adding dire and perplexity in for the sole purpose of them being nerfed finally.

People here don’t want to sacrifice 6 months just for anet to shave this rune in wvw.

Are you implying that they only do class balance every 6 months? They just shaved d/d drake’s breath, might stacks, and several other changes a few weeks ago.

Exedore.6320:

Reikou.7068:

However from a competitive point of view, diversity at the cost of balance is definitely not worth it as these should be games of skill, not who plays the most broken builds.

Diversity does NOT mean that balance is ignored. Proper diversity means that a given build or composition is not the best each and every time.

Yes, but the OP was this:

xDudisx.5914:

Anet has already added assassin, magi, sentinel and cavelier. Next step is add all the stats that we are still missing. Even if they create new op/meta builds it can be fixed later and will give us more options and diversity.

So yeah… the OP was proposing prioritizing diversity over balance.

Reikou.7068:

Exedore.6320:

Reikou.7068:

However from a competitive point of view, diversity at the cost of balance is definitely not worth it as these should be games of skill, not who plays the most broken builds.

Diversity does NOT mean that balance is ignored. Proper diversity means that a given build or composition is not the best each and every time.

Yes, but the OP was this:

xDudisx.5914:

Anet has already added assassin, magi, sentinel and cavelier. Next step is add all the stats that we are still missing. Even if they create new op/meta builds it can be fixed later and will give us more options and diversity.

So yeah… the OP was proposing prioritizing diversity over balance.

I said “Even if they create new op/meta builds it can be fixed..” which I don’t think is the case because none of the new amulets would be op.

Perplexity would not be worse than hoelbrak +celestial amulet or zerker.

xDudisx.5914:

Adding dire and perplexity to spvp would bring the devs attention to the issue and it would be fixed very fast.

So naive and innocent..

PvP balance patches take ages. Cele is OP since 2014 april…

Massive NO to these amulets.

Kanek.5472:

And rune of perplexity doesn’t seem too bad.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Perplexity-Runes-in-PvP-PLEASE-NO

witcher.3197:

xDudisx.5914:

Adding dire and perplexity to spvp would bring the devs attention to the issue and it would be fixed very fast.

So naive and innocent..

PvP balance patches take ages. Cele is OP since 2014 april…

Massive NO to these amulets.

yeah plz…give me perplexity runes on mace sword war

pleeease…

roflmao

So many funny opinions in here
I’ll go ahead and add mine ^^

Yes, sinister, nomad and dire should be added to spvp
Here is why:

• Sinister is a realistic power/prec/condi stat to be made useful. Rampager is useless in every regard. The appearance of sinister may produce new viable build structures. Even if sinister did provide new viable build structures, they certainly wouldn’t be as viable as celestial build structures. There is no reason to hold sinister back from spvp.

• Nomad would make bunking viable again. As of now, the bunker “as a class archetype” is out of meta and the term has become the definition of a temporary action during play, rather than a defining job role within a team. Nomad would bring back the cornerstone Guardian Bunker and in turn effect other metas, even ones not wearing Nomad, to become more defined in what they are and what their job’s entail. Nomad would do nothing but enhance the game’s flavor and distinction between DPS roles and defensive roles. If any of you believe that Nomad amulet would add “impossible to kill bunkers or too hard to kill bunkers” you are sadly mistaken.
  Nothing will produce as strong of bunkers as Celestial. Remember that a big part of on-point defense is offense.

• Dire should be added to help make condi roles viable again. As of now Celestial is the way and condis with Celestial take the back seat as splash damage, mostly support pressure. Dire would make condi based builds viable again and just as viable as serk or celestial. Let’s not forget that Dire doesn’t even have precision “which is required for many many traits to be able to proc extra condis to begin with as well as sigil effects”. There absolutely nothing OP about Dire. In fact, if it were added, I would still choose to use Rabid or Dire anyway.

• Valkyrie pvp stats being changed in to pve stats? I heard someone say this and I have to say to you: “a firm no”. I would like to see the pve version of Valkyrie become like the pvp version of Valkyrie as these stats are actually useful in conjunction with intelligence runes. The pve version of Valkyrie stats are useless. It doesn’t even have it’s high stat in power so why would you want ferocity with that? The amulet is useless in pve and would never be used in pvp if it had it’s pve stats.

xDudisx.5914:

Are you implying that they only do class balance every 6 months? They just shaved d/d drake’s breath, might stacks, and several other changes a few weeks ago.

Were you born yesterday? When was the last balance change? The beginning of September. When was the change before that? The beginning of April. And the last balance change hardly change anything in the meta.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

• Nomad would make bunking viable again.

No it wouldn’t. Nomad would be useless except at low skill levels. Bunkers fell out of favor because they didn’t do damage and Nomad doesn’t help that.

Yes nomad is perfectly fine. I can’t imagine it being used on some mercy rune warrior build with stability for days and also crazy cc spam while never actually dying.

robertul.3679:

Yes nomad is perfectly fine. I can’t imagine it being used on some mercy rune warrior build with stability for days and also crazy cc spam while never actually dying.

And it won’t be remotely OP. People have already forgotten Support Guardian falling out of the meta despite providing tons of CC and support simply because it did no damage.

nomad is just trolling the opposing team

Dire(would be very OP on certain classes) and Nomad(would create the most boring games) YOU DO NOT WANT in sPvP.

Sigil of Mischief would bring me back to pvp condition necro, some stuff definitely needs to be added.