Guild Wars 2

With the nerf to stability, this trait seems very strong now. I’m OK with the elite as it is. It has a long cool down and an obvious tell. However, a trait that procs an elite skill every 20 seconds seems pretty strong.

It needs to only proc immob.
It doesn’t need to proc binding roots.

Faux Play.6104:

With the nerf to stability, this trait seems very strong now. I’m OK with the elite as it is. It has a long cool down and an obvious tell. However, a trait that procs an elite skill every 20 seconds seems pretty strong.

It’s single target so it’s essentially 1/5 of an Elite skill. And it’s not even exactly unblockable like the Elite. I think it’s fine. It’s annoying but it’s still fine.

Imo they just need to make it apply immob once, because getting out of it with a conremove is way too inconsistent.

Yannir.4132:

Faux Play.6104:

With the nerf to stability, this trait seems very strong now. I’m OK with the elite as it is. It has a long cool down and an obvious tell. However, a trait that procs an elite skill every 20 seconds seems pretty strong.

It’s single target so it’s essentially 1/5 of an Elite skill. And it’s not even exactly unblockable like the Elite. I think it’s fine. It’s annoying but it’s still fine.

With barrage it can hit more than one person. It can be done at full longbow range vs. area around the player. It only processes when it hits vs. the elite which can be dodged. It has advantages over the elite. It is the roots on the trait that make it too strong imo. They got rid of pulsing stability, but the pulsing immobilize roots you need to kill before you can get out of them is still there.

I’d rather they just reduce the hp so that it has a bit more counterplay. Currently, it actually takes a few hits, and by then, you’re probably dead cause pew pew + pet pew pew while hitting something that can’t move without blowing a cleanse and dodging or resistance or taking a few seconds to kill the roots… = balanced?

So, more counterplay, or at least easier counterplay because of its short CD. Longer CDs can have less counterplay because then a player has to think about when to use that counterplay instead of just using it whenever and having no problem against the trait.

The other solutions is to scrap it and replace it with something that requires a bit more skill and activity.

Zintrothen.1056:

I’d rather they just reduce the hp so that it has a bit more counterplay. Currently, it actually takes a few hits, and by then, you’re probably dead cause pew pew + pet pew pew while hitting something that can’t move without blowing a cleanse and dodging or resistance or taking a few seconds to kill the roots… = balanced?

So, more counterplay, or at least easier counterplay because of its short CD. Longer CDs can have less counterplay because then a player has to think about when to use that counterplay instead of just using it whenever and having no problem against the trait.

The other solutions is to scrap it and replace it with something that requires a bit more skill and activity.

Issue is it already almost instantly pops in team fights and may classes can deal enough burst to kill it in a few auto attacks. If they reduce the health any more, We SERIOUSLY run the risk of “It might as well not even exist”.

The cooldown kittening SUCKS. I HATE IT. But its still useable even if I can’t rely on it at all now.

But then im already at the point where the only reason I slot druid now is druidic clarity. I tell ya if THAT ever gets nerfed druid goes off my bar eternally.

Edit: At the OP. Ancient seeds is now the weakest part of the druid build for most druids. AND it can be auto attacked down by “most” builds. And the “Nerf to stability” harmed druids more than most of the affected classes. Ancient seeds does NOT need to be nerfed any further.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

It needs to only proc immob.
It doesn’t need to proc binding roots.

Sounds legit for a GM trait…

OGDeadHead.8326:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

It needs to only proc immob.
It doesn’t need to proc binding roots.

Sounds legit for a GM trait…

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Momentary_Pacification

I don’t know, you tell me….

Entenkommando.5208:

Imo they just need to make it apply immob once, because getting out of it with a conremove is way too inconsistent.

Yea. Pulsing stab was nerfed because it was too strong in some contexts. In the same vein, pulsing conditions are nothing but pure spam and should also be reduced. Especially when it comes from a trait, it should be a longer stack instead of pulsing. Skills from your bar should be the only things that even have the potential to cause pulsing conditions.

Faux Play.6104:

Yannir.4132:

Faux Play.6104:

With the nerf to stability, this trait seems very strong now. I’m OK with the elite as it is. It has a long cool down and an obvious tell. However, a trait that procs an elite skill every 20 seconds seems pretty strong.

It’s single target so it’s essentially 1/5 of an Elite skill. And it’s not even exactly unblockable like the Elite. I think it’s fine. It’s annoying but it’s still fine.

With barrage it can hit more than one person. It can be done at full longbow range vs. area around the player. It only processes when it hits vs. the elite which can be dodged. It has advantages over the elite. It is the roots on the trait that make it too strong imo. They got rid of pulsing stability, but the pulsing immobilize roots you need to kill before you can get out of them is still there.

I think the first thing to do then is to limit it to 1 target. As I said, it’s annoying but it’s not brokenly OP or anything.

Yannir.4132:

I think the first thing to do then is to limit it to 1 target. As I said, it’s annoying but it’s not brokenly OP or anything.

It’s annoying for some classes.

For others it’s a autokill trait.

Immob was never affected by stability. You could run all the stability you wanted still would be immobilized.

The trait is being nerf already to 20 sec cd for 5 seconds immob, L2P issue is what I’m reading now here. With all the nerfs to CC and sustain to a CC and sustain spec is being asking here the damage in Druid should be busted up by a ton.

anduriell.6280:

Immob was never affected by stability. You could run all the stability you wanted still would be immobilized.

The trait is being nerf already to 20 sec cd for 5 seconds immob, L2P issue is what I’m reading now here. With all the nerfs to CC and sustain to a CC and sustain spec is being asking here the damage in Druid should be busted up by a ton.

In order for it to process you need to be knocked down, feared, floated or dazed. That is exactly what stability is for. 1v1 it is annoying. In a group fight where the druid can proc it from longbow distance it is super strong.

Play necro against this trait and show me how far you get with l2p…

Also where do you get the idea from that druid is supposed to be a cc and sustain build? It’s supposed to be a support build in the very first place and not a godkitten cc machine.

Entenkommando.5208:

Play necro against this trait and show me how far you get with l2p…

Also where do you get the idea from that druid is supposed to be a cc and sustain build? It’s supposed to be a support build in the very first place and not a godkitten cc machine.

This video shows you how to beat the trait the trait as a necro

LucianTheAngelic.7054:

Entenkommando.5208:

Play necro against this trait and show me how far you get with l2p…

Also where do you get the idea from that druid is supposed to be a cc and sustain build? It’s supposed to be a support build in the very first place and not a godkitten cc machine.

This video shows you how to beat the trait the trait as a necro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyuCBCTqizE

Long story short: Reapers are able to defeat rangers only if they let them close the distance (and in WvW only if the reapers its builded specifically to duel rangers).
This is a WvW video, where we can have traibrazzers/viper mix and we get 3 stack of bleed on chill, making the fight easier versus power build.

-Necro’s Plague Signet have 1200 range
-Reaper’s best projectile destruction skill it’s locked in shroud

-Ranger’s Point Blank Shot have 1200 range (knockdown)
-Rapid Fire have 1500 range
-Hunter’s Shot + Ancestral Grace = guess where i am?

Conquest have the advantage of the point holding philosophy, so if a ranger want to bunker a point you can destroy it, if it don’t try to kite.

In WvW a good ranger will use the knockback only after the Reaper have popped shroud if it notice it’s have Foot in the Grave (or to interrupt the heal), and swap pet to make it waste the immobilize transfer of Plagua Signet, if the reaper want to use it on the pet the second time, cause if the reaper can’t reach the ranger it’ll try to break immobilize by transferring it to the pet.

The ranger in the video it’s very good, but it don’t have tryed to kite.

Crinn.7864:

Yannir.4132:

I think the first thing to do then is to limit it to 1 target. As I said, it’s annoying but it’s not brokenly OP or anything.

It’s annoying for some classes.

For others it’s a autokill trait.

I main a necro in PvP. It’s certainly not an autokill trait.

This thread is in the PvP section of the forum. Please don’t bring WvW up here as there’s a separate sub-forum for that.

Even when your concerns about the trait in WvW are legit, this is the wrong place for it as any PvP changes to Ancient Seeds are unlikely to affect WvW.

WvW Druid vs. Reaper has nothing to do with SPvP. In the case of Druid vs. Reaper in SPvP, Druid binding roots is an i-win skill when your Reaper only has Wanderer, Deadshot, Carrion and Marauder to work with. Amongst better players, Druids win against Reapers even on small node defense. Staff/Longbow is the major culprit of OP Reaper destruction due to superior ranged burst and the ability to stealth with Longbow to avoid the targeting of Plague Signet condi bounce which removes most of the immob. But Staff/Sword-Dagger is capable of similar jankery if the Druid knows to save his burst for Ancient Seeds. Here is why:

• Pet CC hits Reaper easily on a small node, which procs Ancient Seeds
• Out of Reaper form, it requires condi cleansing and damaging the binding roots to get out of it. This is a pain in the ass considering most Reaper builds are headed towards condi nowadays. This means you deal little damage to the Binding Roots on Scepter/Staff. If you are running power, you can destroy the Binding Roots more easily but by the time you’ve done this on either Condi or Power, you’ve already sat and ate a huge burst from the Druid which is usually the immediate momentum shift in the 1v1, in other words, Ancient Seeds alone is winning the 1v1 match on a node.
• Reaper in shroud – GG, no condi cleanse and gives the Druid plenty of time to reposition. By the time you’ve DPS’d the Binding Roots and ate the duration of the immobs, you’ve also eaten a big burst and your shroud is on it’s way out. G’Luck catching that Druid in melee with Shroud.
• Team Fights – There are so many CCs in team fights which randomly proc Ancient Seeds and everyone focuses Reaper to begin with so, Ancient Seeds is inevitably going to get you. Reapers will often be in bad situations where they are kiting 2 to 3 players to survive and when Ancient Seeds hits, it’s honestly worse than being hit with Moa. At least you can still run, evade and #5 with Moa and it doesn’t tear apart your life force bar when it happens. Ancient Seeds in a team fight instantly kills a Reaper if he is being focused by better players in 9/10 situations. If you manage to survive in that 1/10 situation, it’s because you either sat and ate a 3 man burst with a full Life Force bar, dropped shroud and blew all your resources to heal/cleanse/bounce/DPS the Binding Roots or had a good team dedicated to blowing their skills to defend you through the Binding Roots. The hilarious thing is that Ancient Seeds procs every 20s.

Ancient Seeds creating a 4s single immob or something like that would be enough. It doesn’t need a physical object with life value that needs to be DPS’d before you can leave a pulsing immob field. That’s a lot of control for a 20s CD trait that auto passive procs after anyone lays a single CC.

Already been nerfed multiple times but either way most classes intelligently get out of this anyway except maybe necro, which if a necro isn’t running with a team without aoe condi clear then, gg team anyway since as you know , condi meta is already picking up pace and even in range necro completely counters the condi roots aspect of it so im not even sure this will be that viable considering most rangers may start running condi sets and rely on an auto attack from a pet or somebody else to proc it for them – in which case it’s too unreliable as a GM trait.

Also, most group burst wipes the roots away instantly.

It’s not as powerful as you think when regarding top tier play, maybe in hot join though but I think that’s the problem with balancing in general.

Nath.3918:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

It needs to only proc immob.
It doesn’t need to proc binding roots.

Sounds legit for a GM trait…

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Momentary_Pacification

I don’t know, you tell me….

I think you’re proving the point in defense of Ancient Seeds as to why if you make it a simple immob, you make it absolutely useless as a GM trait with no use in virtually any scenario in top tier PvP play. Nobody runs this for that reason alone.

What you would be suggesting is precisely that because one of your traits is garbage, you would like our trait to be garbage as well even disregarding the fact they cover 2 entirely different playstyles in Salvation vs Wilderness Survival.

Again, making it JUST an immob , I would suggest it going into a master trait line and having a new GM entirely in it’s place because it simply would not be worth in it’s current state with just an immob proc.

What they will most likely do IF they do a change would be to make it just an immob proc and bleeds, but lower the ICD of it by 5 seconds or so. No more roots, but it will be a higher chance of immob on you. This is how they usually balance.

ZhouX.8742:

Nath.3918:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

It needs to only proc immob.
It doesn’t need to proc binding roots.

Sounds legit for a GM trait…

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Momentary_Pacification

I don’t know, you tell me….

I think you’re proving the point in defense of Ancient Seeds as to why if you make it a simple immob, you make it absolutely useless as a GM trait with no use in virtually any scenario in top tier PvP play. Nobody runs this for that reason alone.

Again, making it JUST an immob , I would suggest it going into a master trait line and having a new GM entirely in it’s place because it simply would not be worth in it’s current state with just an immob proc.

Ancient Seeds as a single immob would still be competitive as a grandmaster trait. Neither of the other two grandmasters in Druid are all that exciting in PvP, and a long duration immob still makes escaping a ranger burst combo difficult.

The reason Momentary Pacification isn’t taken has nothing to do with it being a single immob. Momentary Pacification isn’t taken because
1) it’s in salvation which isn’t used by any offensive rev spec
2) it’s on a 45sec cooldown
3) it’s shorter duration (3 seconds)
4) meta rev elites are already long duration stuns that eclipse the MP’s immob duration.

They just DOUBLED it’s cool down so maybe we should let that settle a bit first.

terrorshard.3854:

They just DOUBLED it’s cool down so maybe we should let that settle a bit first.

Rephrasing this to be more coherent. I tried mentioning this before terrorshard. People just dont care. If something interferes with them doing the same thing over and over again in the same build. They lose their kitten.

Never mind the fact that a power build can 1-2 shot hte roots.

Never mind the fact that the roots when killed clear the entire stack of immobilize.

Nevermind the fact that its now on a cooldown that isn’t synced with any of our CCs.

Nevermind the fact that our elite got nerfed at the same time. Lowering the reliability of our teamfighting potential meaning side node fights are really all we have.

Until what they don’t like is nearly unusable. Until we start taking grace of the bloody land for our pvp grandmaster. People wont be happy.

Its becoming weird,

they nerf sharpened edges by 50%
they double ancient seeds cd
they nerfed geomancy/primal echoes
now people want the bleeds removed from ancient seeds

whats next? revert refined toxins cd back to 10sec and remove poison from it?