Guild Wars 2

please please PLEASE do something about this, ideas include

only let 1-3 people Que together
make a free 5v5 premade Tourny with better rewards

also sick of joining and being a man down from the start, games shouldnt start when this is the case.

We had vsed a premade, me and my friend joined together (2 eles) and got put with a guardian and 2 other eles. We obliterated the first match against some premade team. Then we got obliterated in the second round by a much better premade. I can see your frustration but they have spvp for pugs atm. Its not the best solution and I would like to see a pug 5v5. What I hate is that if you join 1 of your friends then you are almost always on the opposite team when the match starts. And continued to be placed on the opposite team each match their after.

Yeah it’s impossible to get a fair free tournament. Round 3 almost always has a premade, so it’s really pointless and not worth playing solo for the most part. It’s a shame because tPvP pug vs pug is really fun.

We need tickets.. since the entry fee to PAID tournaments is 5 tickets and thats like 5 wins in a row = at least 3-4 hours of playing.

Right now the best guilds are in PAID tournaments, the average premades are loosing their tickets and therefore are going back to FREE tournaments in order to get new tickets.

We need to balance the entry price for PAID tournaments. If its more accessible for average premades, then it will make free tournaments really free

at least they can do some integrated voice chat so pugs can coordinate too else there is no reason that they are allowing pugs to get in tpvp, pugs gets stomped in 2nd or 3rd round

Hmm, its just wrong matchmaking mechanic.

tPvP need better matchmaking filter (teams matched by party size and pvp rank).

Aragiel.6132:

We need tickets.. since the entry fee to PAID tournaments is 5 tickets and thats like 5 wins in a row = at least 3-4 hours of playing.

Right now the best guilds are in PAID tournaments, the average premades are loosing their tickets and therefore are going back to FREE tournaments in order to get new tickets.

We need to balance the entry price for PAID tournaments. If its more accessible for average premades, then it will make free tournaments really free

well paid is designed for top teams to compete i dont see your point
if everyone will be able to play paid constantly it will be just like free whats the point doing that.

Lorienda.1349:

well paid is designed for top teams to compete i dont see your point
if everyone will be able to play paid constantly it will be just like free whats the point doing that.

As i understeand it (and maybe im wrong of course) it should be next level for organized teams. Not for TOP teams only. What i understeand was that free will be mainly for incomplete groups (3 guys + other 2 guys etc) and PAID should be only for full premades. Of course noone should be able to paid it constantly if they are loosing. But in current state we have low level PVP which is Free tournaments and we have PAID tournaments for like top 50? maybe top 100 teams. There is nothing in between.

And thats my point, PAID should be still accessible for average teams and next step for TOP teams should be custom tournaments + monthly + yearly tournaments.

Aragiel.6132:

PAID tournaments for like top 50? maybe top 100 teams. There is nothing in between.

That’s extremely generous. The Q times wouldn’t be so atrocious if that was the case. Try top 10.

@Sozai

yea, im generous person in general but the main point is that there is nothing in betwen. The game right now recognize PUG and TOP50. Nothing else.

@Aragiel.
it’s not true that the cost of paid tournaments it’s too high. The 1st gets 15 tikets (you buy with gems), 2nd 10 tikets, 3/4 place is 4 tikets. Wich means that you need to win an average of 1.2 games per tournament, to never run out of tikets.

I had 150 tikets when i started, now i have 200 tikets, a charter slot, 2 constumes, and i can still buy 200 tikets with the gems.

Ace of Spades.6325:

@Aragiel.
it’s not true that the cost of paid tournaments it’s too high. The 1st gets 15 tikets (you buy with gems), 2nd 10 tikets, 3/4 place is 4 tikets. Wich means that you need to win an average of 1.2 games per tournament, to never run out of tikets.

I had 150 tikets when i started, now i have 200 tikets, a charter slot, 2 constumes, and i can still buy 200 tikets with the gems.

I do not agree. You have to end up 1 or 2 place in order to get possitive billance. That means to win 2 games in tournament at least. Any time you dont you are in negative of at least 1 ticket if you finish 3/4 place or you are in negative of 5 tickets.
Now to get 5 tickets (and we talking PVP way not buying for real money or farming otherwise). You need to win 5 free tournaments which is aproximatelly 3-4 hours of your time. (considering one tournament is 40 mins).
Now with the quality of opponents, average teams even organized can´t compette the level of teams who are now playing paid trournaments. I consider my team as average gamers, we play almost 3-4 evenings a week and sometimes during weekend too. We do play PVP only at this moment and only tournament games. At this point we go very easy in Free tournaments. I would say without big challenge. While in PAID we endup in first or second map (mostly first one). So im pretty much loosing my tickets fast.
Now this is not personal, for me its challege and im going to work on my play to improve and eventually go there. But talking about big picture. If you have only limited access to PAID tournaments where people are going faster in negative billance, then you will see soon enough that even top teams will start loosing first rounds against other top teams.. leading to the experience where waiting times could be more than hour to start one tournament or even to the situation that some top teams will loose their tickets….

Dont get me wrong, i want PVP to be challenging, but im not as good and i know i never will be. But still im competitive and want to have challenge of my level of skill..

We talking about balance here.. maybe the price still can be 5 tickets, if for example Free tournaments victory will give you for example 3 tickets instead of 1. ANd 2 tickets for 2 place etc.. Somehow to make the tickets spendable.. and obtainable in reasonable time (5 tickets for 5 wins which is 3 hours is not reasonable time)

@Aragiel.

You said it yourself, you mostly endup in the first map, your team is clearly not good enough to play paid tournaments yet.

If you play 5 tournaments and:

You lose twice in the first map
You lose once in the second map
You lose once in the third map
You win once in the third map

You get 15+10+4+0+0 = 29 tikets, and you only had to pay 25 tikets, wich means you’re up of 4 tikets.

All my friends that are by no means hardcore players, and play less than you, have already bought at least 1 700gems skin, a charter slot, without running out of tikets.

The top teams, have so many gems and tikets that have no clue about what to do with them.

well, as i said.. i will go there anyway sooner or later. So far i have played only 5 games so not that many, and still have over 100 tickets to go there.

But im still not convinced its working like that. And mainly im not convinced that this is how it should work.

Im trying to see the bigger picture here.
- waiting times = normally 10 – 20 minutes in prime times. Its telling me that there is not that much teams.
- more premades in free tournaments = its telling me that lot of premades allready lost their tickets.
- What should PUG and casuals players do ? Free tournaments were supposed to be free for PUG and solo players. Right now – they facing premades who needs tickets.
- What should the average or less then average groups do? facing pugs? They will not improve by stomping pug groups.

Im again saying.. right now we have PUG tournaments and TOP teams tournaments. There is nothing in between. Even low quality teams needs to face something challenging in order to improve themselfs.

Paid tournaments reward qualifier points, if a bad team could chain spam paid tournaments it might end up playing the monthly event without deserving it.

Burn all your tikets, and if you’re still not good enough, spam free tournaments, till you get good enough. Organize sync Q with other teams might help you improve faster.

The top teams did the same, they spammed FT and mixed some Sync Q.

But i strongly belive that an average team can win a PT once in a while, and can easly get 2nd or 3/4th place without much problems, and that’s enough to spam PT without running out of tikets.

Ace of Spades.6325:

Paid tournaments reward qualifier points, if a bad team could chain spam paid tournaments it might end up playing the monthly event without deserving it.

Burn all your tikets, and if you’re still not good enough, spam free tournaments, till you get good enough. Organize sync Q with other teams might help you improve faster.

The top teams did the same, they spammed FT and mixed some Sync Q.

But i strongly belive that an average team can win a PT once in a while, and can easly get 2nd or 3/4th place without much problems, and that’s enough to spam PT without running out of tikets.

lets just hope its like this and you right, but then why the Q times?

@Aragiel

I say play paids. You can’t improve by stomping pugs all day. Even couple hours of playing paids, facing good teams and observing their strategies can yield great results. though.

What we really need here is tPvP ranking. With this a team of pugs with average of 1000 points will only fight with a team of pugs with the same points.

They really need to have a random queue and a separated premade queue for free tourneys.

@Aragiel,

The fear, people have 100+ tikets and are still afraid of playing.

What are you planning to do with your 100 tikets? If you don’t play it’s like if you don’t have them anyway. Just play and burn all your tikets, if you don’t use them, it’s like not having them anyway, use them, at least you’ll play some good games.

How many teams are not playing paid cuz they are scared? If all of them would play, the skill cap of the paid tournaments would be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay lower.

The smart thing to do is to burn tikets now, when people are too scared of playing. You’ll get to play lots of games against the best teams.
Remember, when they’ll implement the ranked system, casuals will never be able to play and learn from the top teams.

I play a little of lol, and i’d waste all my tikets to play against M5,TSM, Azubu, CLG,TA.

Loosing all your tikets against top teams, will make you improve way faster, than those who are too scared to play anything else besides FT.

Im pretty sure i will use my tickets this week and im trully looking fowarad to it, my last game in paid ended 500:470. It was trully great game for me. At some point here i realized how funny could be to watch those games (as spectator) where strategy is trully diffeernt and people know what to do and when to do.

well, lets see how it will go in few weeks maybe it will go way better with paid and more teams will join – making it more fun with smaller Q time.

Well que times are weird. Sometimes we have to wait for 20min during prime time, sometimes it’s instant. Everyone stops playing around 2am :P.

Still, having more teams playing would help a lot

1 question: the ones who play soloQ in free tourney are the same that will soloQ in paid tourney?
btw these threads are always silly. how many HA in gw1 did you start as pug? i think none.
learn to use the chat to find a pug team to have some chance in free tourney. soloQ is just for testing stuff.

Shukran.4851:

1 question: the ones who play soloQ in free tourney are the same that will soloQ in paid tourney?
btw these threads are always silly. how many HA in gw1 did you start as pug? i think none.
learn to use the chat to find a pug team to have some chance in free tourney. soloQ is just for testing stuff.

you can´t soloQ in paid.. only full premade can entry.

soloQ in Free is fine. Or i would prefer a way that hot-join is 5v5 instead of 8v8, then it would be
hot-join = for casuals and solo players
free-tournament = for average players and premades
paid tournament = only for top teams

in that case im totaly fine with. But right now – hot-join is 8v8 making it absolutely worst PvP experience ever..

Well, Im back with something what came in my mind after reviewing our discussion here.

So why do i still believe the system is not set right.
Lets count it together. Not from player point of view, but mathematically. We have income and spendings.
Income is what each tournament will generate in term of tickets.
Spendings is what each tournament will consume in terms of tickets.

So spendings first. Thats easy, the cost is 5 ticket per member.
Now lets see income (i count with 5 tickets for 75 gems = 15 gems per ticket)
1st place = 180 gems = 12 tickets
2st place = 120 gems = 8 tickets
3st place = 4 tickets
4st place = 4 tickets
5st place = 0 tickets
6st place = 0 tickets
7st place = 0 tickets
8st place = 0 tickets

So one tournament round is generating
Income = 12+8+4+4 = 28 tickets while its entry cost is 8*5=40 tickets. We have of course 5 members in each team. So income is (12+8+4+4)5 = 140 while entry cost is 85*5=200.
So income – spending = -60 tickets. So every tournament round result in lost of 60 tickets from system.

That in general means the PAID tournament need to be “sponzored” by Free tournaments income. Othervise it will simply destroy itself. Now considering the time you have to spend in Free in order to get 5 tickets. We talking 3 hours minimum. So one evening of playing.

Hope you get my point.

That in general means the PAID tournament need to be “sponzored” by Free tournaments income. Othervise it will simply destroy itself. Now considering the time you have to spend in Free in order to get 5 tickets. We talking 3 hours minimum. So one evening of playing.
Hope you get my point.

I’m not sure how you did it but you totally missed the point of this thread…

Ok, your team need tickets so what? Why cant you fight against other team (which also need tickets)?

Why does everyone want an unequal battle?? Full premade team with voice communication against PUG???

If you cant win against other team, you need to practice more.

What we need for tPvP now is to filter teams and pugs better (Since many noob teams enjoy PUG farming.)

I am not saying that teams should not play free tpvp, my point is:
This is team based game and, you should enjoy the challenge and competition of matches between two premade groups.

PUG’s should have their own competition fun fighting other PUG (and not to be cannon fodder for teams unable to earn tickets in fair battle).

Aragiel.6132:

Well, Im back with something what came in my mind after reviewing our discussion here.

So why do i still believe the system is not set right.
Lets count it together. Not from player point of view, but mathematically. We have income and spendings.
Income is what each tournament will generate in term of tickets.
Spendings is what each tournament will consume in terms of tickets.

So spendings first. Thats easy, the cost is 5 ticket per member.
Now lets see income (i count with 5 tickets for 75 gems = 15 gems per ticket)
1st place = 180 gems = 12 tickets
2st place = 120 gems = 8 tickets
3st place = 4 tickets
4st place = 4 tickets
5st place = 0 tickets
6st place = 0 tickets
7st place = 0 tickets
8st place = 0 tickets

So one tournament round is generating
Income = 12+8+4+4 = 28 tickets while its entry cost is 8*5=40 tickets. We have of course 5 members in each team. So income is (12+8+4+4)5 = 140 while entry cost is 85*5=200.
So income – spending = -60 tickets. So every tournament round result in lost of 60 tickets from system.

That in general means the PAID tournament need to be “sponzored” by Free tournaments income. Othervise it will simply destroy itself. Now considering the time you have to spend in Free in order to get 5 tickets. We talking 3 hours minimum. So one evening of playing.

Hope you get my point.

Why would tournaments pay out more than they take in?

The point of paid tournaments is to net a “profit” to the house. Otherwise, why would you have an entry fee at all? Now, in this case the “profit” is simply anet reducing the supply of tickets in the game (both to earn a real profit via gem purchases and to prevent ticket inflation) but the point still holds. Tournaments should always pay out less than the total entry fee.

Wooyadeen.6491:

What we need for tPvP now is to filter teams and pugs better (Since many noob teams enjoy PUG farming.)

I am not saying that teams should not play free tpvp, my point is:
This is team based game and, you should enjoy the challenge and competition of matches between two premade groups.

PUG’s should have their own competition fun fighting other PUG (and not to be cannon fodder for teams unable to earn tickets in fair battle).

The simple solution here is to split queues. Pre-mades are only matched with pre-mades while PUGs are only matched with PUGs. However, this raises two new issues: 4 man pre-mades, and queue times. The former would be best resolved by including those in the pre-made queue (which probably makes programming more difficult, but maybe not) while the latter can only be solved by increasing the player population. It’s possible that populations are high enough as it is to support split queues without ridiculous queue times, but that’s something only Anet has figures on. However, I’d argue that splitting queues would actually increase participation in tPvP as it makes it more accessible for people who otherwise would steer clear of tournaments.

@Syeria
I agree with you that Tournaments should always pay out less than the total entry fee. Thats clear. But then we discuss exactly the point or rarity.

PUGS are fighting organized teams in Free tournaments as a result of high ticket loss. While i agree the system is fine, i believe somehow more tickets should be given from Free tournaments wins and therefore reducing the farming time needed to entry again paid.
Now to entry one paid tournament you need 3-4 hours which is like one evening of playing. If for example reward for winnnig free tournaments would be 3 tickets and 2 tickets for second place, then you need only two tournaments to get your entry fee and therefore more teams will then join paid.

At the end, it will reduce the organized groups in free tournaments and increase the ammount of teams in paid. while still keeping its rarity and rewards.

well, im probably totaly wrong as noone else see it. Lets wait 2 weeks I think we will see more QQ about paid tournaments waiting times and more QQ about organized teams farming pugs in FREE while they have no challenge at all.

Aragiel.6132:

@Syeria
I agree with you that Tournaments should always pay out less than the total entry fee. Thats clear. But then we discuss exactly the point or rarity.

PUGS are fighting organized teams in Free tournaments as a result of high ticket loss. While i agree the system is fine, i believe somehow more tickets should be given from Free tournaments wins and therefore reducing the farming time needed to entry again paid.
Now to entry one paid tournament you need 3-4 hours which is like one evening of playing. If for example reward for winnnig free tournaments would be 3 tickets and 2 tickets for second place, then you need only two tournaments to get your entry fee and therefore more teams will then join paid.

At the end, it will reduce the organized groups in free tournaments and increase the ammount of teams in paid. while still keeping its rarity and rewards.

well, im probably totaly wrong as noone else see it. Lets wait 2 weeks I think we will see more QQ about paid tournaments waiting times and more QQ about organized teams farming pugs in FREE while they have no challenge at all.

While there might be some quality teams farming free tournaments for tickets, I highly doubt that it’s a meaningfully large number of teams doing that. There are plenty of organized teams that simply aren’t that great who would rather win free tournaments than risk losing in paid tournaments. I’d compare it to something like Counter-Strike where “pubstars” try out for an organized league and immediately lose a few matches. Instead of putting in effort and time to try improve and do well in that league, instead they go back to their “noobfriendly” server where they can be the best player on the server and dominate the players who aren’t as good. It’s not an issue of not being able to afford to play in the organized league, they just like beating up on lesser competition.

Adjusting rewards for free tournaments won’t do anything about that sort of team, nor will it resolve the problem of high end teams using free tournaments as a chance to practice or try out new builds. While it might get rid of one problem, I don’t imagine it would be all that effective overall.

Syeria.4812:

Wooyadeen.6491:

What we need for tPvP now is to filter teams and pugs better (Since many noob teams enjoy PUG farming.)

I am not saying that teams should not play free tpvp, my point is:
This is team based game and, you should enjoy the challenge and competition of matches between two premade groups.

PUG’s should have their own competition fun fighting other PUG (and not to be cannon fodder for teams unable to earn tickets in fair battle).

The simple solution here is to split queues. Pre-mades are only matched with pre-mades while PUGs are only matched with PUGs. However, this raises two new issues: 4 man pre-mades, and queue times. The former would be best resolved by including those in the pre-made queue (which probably makes programming more difficult, but maybe not) while the latter can only be solved by increasing the player population. It’s possible that populations are high enough as it is to support split queues without ridiculous queue times, but that’s something only Anet has figures on. However, I’d argue that splitting queues would actually increase participation in tPvP as it makes it more accessible for people who otherwise would steer clear of tournaments.

If you include 4 man premades into the “full 5 premade queue” that means solo players will also be drafted into the high comp team. Unless you mean to make them face 5 players with four of course.

Syeria.4812:

While there might be some quality teams farming free tournaments for tickets, I highly doubt that it’s a meaningfully large number of teams doing that. There are plenty of organized teams that simply aren’t that great who would rather win free tournaments than risk losing in paid tournaments. I’d compare it to something like Counter-Strike where “pubstars” try out for an organized league and immediately lose a few matches. Instead of putting in effort and time to try improve and do well in that league, instead they go back to their “noobfriendly” server where they can be the best player on the server and dominate the players who aren’t as good. It’s not an issue of not being able to afford to play in the organized league, they just like beating up on lesser competition.

Adjusting rewards for free tournaments won’t do anything about that sort of team, nor will it resolve the problem of high end teams using free tournaments as a chance to practice or try out new builds. While it might get rid of one problem, I don’t imagine it would be all that effective overall.

i don’t know about CS, but if you lose endlessly paid tourney sooner or later you will end your tickets, so you will be back to your noobfriendly free tournament.
i still don’t understand the average player mentality: playing tourney and pretend to find only pugs… right now…. just wait for some new patches…