Guild Wars 2

what do u guy think is the best season so far? i terms of balance and Match making?

season 1 has to be the worst for me and the hardest. the weird win and lose pip gain mechanic is confusing but fun when u lose to someone and gain a pip still lol. the balance is so horrible. bunker ele, engi, druid, mesmer. games ended with 100 points in 15 minutes. oh and the MM forces u to a 50/50, and pit u against a all solo vs premade.

season 2 and 3 feels rather similar. except that season 3 has to be the most balance in terms of availability of each class.

In that order:

2014
Test season 1 (turret engi ftw)
Test season 2 (specialization summer patch)

Season 1,
Season 3,
Season 2.

They have all sucked… But out of all turds one must be the shiniest… I guess I would say season 1 was the best as the matchmaking was better and has only gone downhill since…

Edit: anything pre june 2015 is better than anything post june 2015…

None of them. The leagues have been a disaster from day one. I want them gone.

Allison The Strange.4519:

They have all sucked… But out of all turds one must be the shiniest… I guess I would say season 1 was the best as the matchmaking was better and has only gone downhill since…

Edit: anything pre june 2015 is better than anything post june 2015…

How can you say matchmaking in S1 was better when everyone and their mothers were unkillable Bunker classes? I guess if everyone were punching bags, no one would get hurt.

A team made up of Mesmers, Revs and Eles.. the most laughable Tournaments in GW2 history was in S1…

S1 was so bad. Worst meta the game ever had. Confusing pip mechanics. I’ve seen people around here say it had the best matchmaking, but the matchmaking system encouraged players to throw a ton of matches when they were at a safe spot to tank their mmr so they’d have easier matches when they got their pre-made going. There was also the problem of pre-mades grabbing an amber player so they’d have easier matches. Speaking of pre-mades, pug vs pre-made was a bigger problem that season.

Between S2 and S3, S3 was the better one for having a better meta and toning down the high mmr vs low mmr matchmaking.

s2 was best. s1 was annoying w/ those teams adding ambers to lower them ratings, s3 was jus terrible. this match i got to win w/ 500-100, next i am the loser 500-100

S1 was “best” in that you could game the system easily to get to diamond I suppose.

I guess for some the focus is on getting the little diamond label and less on what it actually implies you did to get there.

I think S3 would actually have worked out much better if their were larger pools of players in each of the pip ranges. I think the problems came about when the algorithm is applied to too small a pool of players thus making the spread in skill too large. The idea was in the right direction, but it can’t be executed in certain conditions.

Jaxom.7310:

s2 was best. s1 was annoying w/ those teams adding ambers to lower them ratings, s3 was jus terrible. this match i got to win w/ 500-100, next i am the loser 500-100

This is exactly what I was going to say. S2 was more steady, whereas in S1 getting to legendary depended on being on a premade with someone smurfing, and S3 depended on getting a massive win streak to cross divisions. (Staying at win, lose, win pattern for weeks before hitting the win streak that only made it obvious that you probably didn’t deserve most of those wins, too. As in, you’re either on the team with all top players vs. a team that’s handicapped in some way, or you’re on the handicapped team vs. all top players.) The moment when the game decided to give you your win streak was probably just when all of the players who would endlessly steamroll you have already hit their win streaks and crossed divisions, or just the people with higher MMRs.

Season 3 easily had the best intra-class balance for the metas in play.
Still no diversity though.

Season 2 had the better match making and I only say this because S1 had the pip farming exploitation going on and S3 had the problem with putting higher MMRs on one team and lower MMRs on the other. = Just a big segregation based on past history of MMR which is just messed up.

Season 3 has been the most interesting when matchmaking failed to stack teams correctly.

Season 2 had the best matchmaking assuming everyone played the extremely limited meta.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

what do u guy think is the best season so far? i terms of balance and Match making?

season 1 has to be the worst for me and the hardest. the weird win and lose pip gain mechanic is confusing but fun when u lose to someone and gain a pip still lol. the balance is so horrible. bunker ele, engi, druid, mesmer. games ended with 100 points in 15 minutes. oh and the MM forces u to a 50/50, and pit u against a all solo vs premade.

season 2 and 3 feels rather similar. except that season 3 has to be the most balance in terms of availability of each class.

Neither.

The league was a disaster from beginning to end. It was a train-wreck.

I did not play Season 1 or 2, but I’ve been playing PvP for a long time. Season 3 felt, to me, much more like a traditional RPG in terms of required roles. You had a certain condi requirement, a certain direct damage requirement, a boon requirement, and a heal requirement. You either fit into these roles or you lost.

That said, it doesn’t really work with GW2’s ‘everyone-can-do-everything’ mindset. You ended up with classes that were really only good at one build, and if you ran another one people would look down on you — as they rightly should, because metas generally win matches.

It’s also a terrible fit for soloq players, because many of us just want to play one or two classes, and not feel guilty if we don’t swap. That’s also something I don’t blame players for — we want to play what we want to play, and that’s what makes our games fun to us. If you tell us to swap to something we don’t like, we don’t have fun. So, feeling slotted into something you don’t want to be is a pretty crap thing to do to us and I’m not really sure how to fix that.

JTGuevara.9018:

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

what do u guy think is the best season so far? i terms of balance and Match making?

season 1 has to be the worst for me and the hardest. the weird win and lose pip gain mechanic is confusing but fun when u lose to someone and gain a pip still lol. the balance is so horrible. bunker ele, engi, druid, mesmer. games ended with 100 points in 15 minutes. oh and the MM forces u to a 50/50, and pit u against a all solo vs premade.

season 2 and 3 feels rather similar. except that season 3 has to be the most balance in terms of availability of each class.

Neither.

The league was a disaster from beginning to end. It was a train-wreck.

yes. i get it JT u dont like the leagues as obvious u made 2 same comments lol

If we separate MMR with class balance then S1 would’ve been the best MMR system if they zeroed pre-existing MMR right from the start. That mistake alone makes many long-term PvP players having more difficulty advancing than new players. Season 2 has interesting concept, but I don’t know what oversight happened that gives birth to deliberate one sided match (2-8 etc). Its pretty much remedied in season 3 though (4-6 is still achievable even if you’re 4).

In terms of balance I’d say season 3 is the best? I know I’m being pessimistic, I can’t help but feel like I’m just picking the best one out of bad ones though. Naturally players will pick the best builds to advance. But the gap between “best” and “viable” builds are so large that you might consider them as “unviable”. This HoT problem strikes diversity hard and continue to persist even until today. It is improving, but so slow that I doubt we’ll see diverse builds even at the end of 2017 or 2018.

Looking at the core problem, I think rewards are given too much for the amount of effort put in compare to the past, some related to passive proc traits, some related to over-tuned skills. But that’s a whole new problem that should be discussed elsewhere -.-

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

If we separate MMR with class balance then S1 would’ve been the best MMR system if they zeroed pre-existing MMR right from the start. That mistake alone makes many long-term PvP players having more difficulty advancing than new players. Season 2 has interesting concept, but I don’t know what oversight happened that gives birth to deliberate one sided match (2-8 etc). Its pretty much remedied in season 3 though (4-6 is still achievable even if you’re 4).

In terms of balance I’d say season 3 is the best? I know I’m being pessimistic, I can’t help but feel like I’m just picking the best one out of bad ones though. Naturally players will pick the best builds to advance. But the gap between “best” and “viable” builds are so large that you might consider them as “unviable”. This HoT problem strikes diversity hard and continue to persist even until today. It is improving, but so slow that I doubt we’ll see diverse builds even at the end of 2017 or 2018.

Looking at the core problem, I think rewards are given too much for the amount of effort put in compare to the past, some related to passive proc traits, some related to over-tuned skills. But that’s a whole new problem that should be discussed elsewhere -.-

You can do all of the class and skill balance in a competitive PvP game. However if your Match Makers is inherently unbalanced and behaviors that should not be tolerated, continue to persist and is encouraged in Ranked PvP Queue then that Ranked PvP mode has no future and days are numbered. That is unless of course you are not selling your PvP mode to the competitive player, but to the noncompetitive player that has no place in any other competitive game’s Ranked PvP game mode. Judging by the GW2’s forums and the chatter from the sPvP lobby, I’d honestly say that most of the GW2’s current sPvP community fit in the latter. That being said the Devs have to cater to that noncompetitive PvP community if it wants to keep it’s game mode on life support, and delay it’s death for as long as they possibly can.

Yes I know the truth hurts. But that being said the truth is the truth no matter what type of fabrication you do or spin you put on it.

Better Match Maker or Solo Queue leagues would honestly be one of the first things that ANet would have to do. In order to get the game mode healthy and encourage noncompetitive PvP players to stay in Unranked and punish the noncompetitive PvP players that create a unhealthy and unplayable environment in Ranked PvP mode. This is a MUST if ANet wants to pull and retain actual players in Ranked PvP mode, all else will just leave Ranked PvP mode bleeding more players then it can recruit.

I’ll admit I didn’t really play Season 3 sPvP. However judging from the matches I did had in Season 3. It was the absolutely worst of the 3 seasons. Season 3 in GW2 pretty much showed me as a player how toxic and noncompetitive a Ranked PvP game mode can be in a game.

They were all pretty bad, but maybe season 1. I know that I preferred the “bad team still gets pips for a loss” mechanism, It was only fair that if the MMR assigned you a terrible team that you’d get a pip for your troubles anyway. Season 3 was 100% The Worst.

Season 1 was an absolute disaster regarding class balance, the bunker meta was at its worse.

season 1 (with correction for exploit) for mechanics, not for the class balance.

Season 1 was the best

S3 > S2 > S1

No idea why people are saying S1. S1 had people cheesing the matchmaking to get to high ranks and bunker rezzmers.

lol Dahkeus look behind the exploit. Maybe you just look at far you got s3, for me s3 was best but certainly not the best mechanics. S3 was a dice, if y were lucky y were in the good team if not sry. S1 had at least some correlation with mmr of teams, not the best but still there was some.

RedZebra.2345:

lol Dahkeus look behind the exploit. Maybe you just look at far you got s3, for me s3 was best but certainly not the best mechanics. S3 was a dice, if y were lucky y were in the good team if not sry. S1 had at least some correlation with mmr of teams, not the best but still there was some.

I got just as in far S3 as I did in S1. Diamond in both.

S1 had a lot more 4 v 5s and bugs where those 4 v 5s would result in pip loss. The class balance was also atrocious in comparison.

@Dahkeus, you mentioning 2 things:
1. 4/5 or bug’s : this has nothing to do with season mechanics, just bad luck
2. class balance was bad during season 1, but again this has nothing to do with seasons mechanics. This is a balance thing.
Question is what mechanics you like the best, not in what season you had the most luck.

Matchmaking and balance are 2 different things : Matchmaking combined with pips is the system we play in, it was different for all seasons but it should be hopefully steady once they have a good one. Balance however will be an ongoing thing as skills changes.

Dahkeus.8243:

S3 > S2 > S1

No idea why people are saying S1. S1 had people cheesing the matchmaking to get to high ranks and bunker rezzmers.

Which was fixable without changing the matchmaking. The people who liked S1 are the ones who are mid range players which is probably the majority.

@ RedZebra: The question wasn’t just in terms of matchmaking. Go back and read the OP if you’re confused.

S1 had plenty of imbalanced games, even if it did get worse in S2 as part of the move to the tier system. However, it also made the early tiers of the season a total slog fest.
It also made the early tiers a LOT slower for a lot of players with higher MMRs, so there was a lot of inconsistency.

Honestly, I think S3 would have been the clear winner for a lot of people if there was enough activity in the population to allow matchmaking to tune better matches since it had better rules and logic put in place.

Season 1 was terrible both in terms of match making and profession balance. The rating parity in match making made the season the definition of grind with absolutely zero skill required to progress through divisions. Every player slogged away in his/her MMR bracket, and thanks to the safety pip mechanic basically the entire player pool could reach legendary as long as enough games were played. The most absurd aspect of S1 was that it was actually easier for players with low MMR to climb divisions, because they could play with and against low-level players all the way from amber to legend. There was no skill progression as people grinded their way up the divisions. You could reach legend and not meet a single ESL-level player on the way. And don’t even get me started on the Stronghold pip cheesing, which devalued climbing even more.

Profession balance was similarly absurd during S1. Fresh off the huge power creep of HoT launch, bunker mesmers, revenants and necros ran rampant, and the meta was all about stacking as many cheesy passives as possible. The Pro League was especially sad, as matches were often decided by who could get the first two-cap and bunker their position to a sleep-inducing victory.

Meta-wise seasons 2 & 3 were an improvement over S1, even though there is still far too much residual power creep from HoT specialisations, and build diversity continues to be extremely feeble. Match making however has clearly improved from S1, and it is now impossible to reach legend without meeting at least some skilled players along the way.

Overall, I feel that positive progress has been made from S1 to S3, but the progress has been slow and marred by facepalm moments especially in terms of profession balance, which is still dominated by silly passives and low-skill spam.

Aereniel.7356:

Season 1 was terrible both in terms of match making and profession balance. The rating parity in match making made the season the definition of grind with absolutely zero skill required to progress through divisions. There was no skill progression as people grinded their way up the divisions. You could reach legend and not meet a single ESL-level player on the way.

And the difference between Season 1 and the other seasons, Match Maker wise is. That instead of everybody being able to advance. In seasons 2 and 3 ANet pretty much without flat out saying it made solo queuing against the rules by just out right throwing solo queuers on teams of players who either had no clue on how to play or like to feed suicide so that the other team had a sure win. But I guess that requires more skill for pre mades and these so called “good players” then having some of the feeders and new players of both sides rather the stacking one team with all of the “pros” and I use that word very lightly, and the other team with way above average players.

Season 2 and 3 was all about pre mades, skilllessly getting fed these wins with nearly no opposition. But let them tell you they won because they were “good” and I use that word here extremely lightly.[It’s like playing in WvW when you have a stacked server map queued omni blob of 70 plus players on one commander just steam rolling over groups of 10 to 15 players, then dance on their corpses and send them whispers “Yall suck garbage, Get Gud Son, Learn to Curry your Server Son.”] That was exactly what Season 2 and more so season 3 was. At least in Season 2 you was somewhat able to muscle you your way out of the lower divisions as a Low MMR solo queuer with a crap ton of skill and a little bit of luck. Season 3, I think I was so jaded from the inequality of Season 2 that I maybe put in 20 matches in the whole of Season 3.

Far as population. LOL no, none of you get to complain about population as you so called “good” pvp players “skillless pre made blobs” told solo players “Too bad brah, get wrekt, here brah stop complaining and L2P, or just leave we don’t want you here any ways.” So basically what did yall expect to happen? Most of the solo players, which by the way as evident by the population lefted in season, was the majority of the sPvP players in GW2. For the most part, most of us evacuated from sPvP in GW2.

What happened afterwards was beyond priceless and made me laugh so hard. What started in Ruby started to happen in Diamond and Legendary divisions as well. Players started to complaining about having players on their team who know nothing at all about how to play sPvP. Not only that but they was being put on their teams nearly every single match making their chances for advancement just a bad as ours in the lower division. This was because as many of the fodder(solo queuers) lefted the game creating a need for the system to fill the previous victims spots. I mean if you have a Match Maker that by design feed some of the chosen players wins, just so they stay and play sPvP. Then you would need fodder to feed them with. Which then again another moment in Season 3 that had me nearly laugh my self to death, you now had some of the players that was telling the ex pvp solo queuers to “Gut Gud, Learn to Curry, and what not” are now crying over the forums of the same thing….. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Just thinking about some of those people’s treads brought tears of justice to my face. However these new victims that was once used to easy win streaks, now facing the trouble we had to face for 2 seasons didn’t even last 2 weeks after they was put on the short bus.

My conclusion is. That out of the players lefted playing GW2’s sPvP now about %99.99999 of them are bads don’t let them tell you other wise. Most of the actually good players lefted for greener pastures long time ago. Which is why you are not seeing talks about how to make the game mode more competitive but rather a bunch of “Nerf or Buff this class or skill” threads[IE. Make GW2 Easy for Me and My Playstyle Only] type threads on the forums. This is what seasons two and three turned this game’s sPvP mode into. Something that can be easily classified as the Special Olympics of eSports.

As always thank you for your time, I hope you enjoyed this bit of text.

S2 and S3 have probably been slightly better at correlating skill and league position, while worse at producing quality matches. The balance is far better than it was for S1, but the game is still too spammy and passive proc filled (overall worse, IMHO) compared to what we had prior to HoT.

There’s still a lot of work to do to achieve a decent system:

- Safety nets at amber, emerald and sapphire need to go. They allow players to advance by pure game spam (with no toher purpose but allow to grind the legendary backpack) and, since everyone doesn’t play at the same rate, negatively affects any MMR spread til Ruby.

- Seasons need to be shorter or there should be incentives to play beyond legendary. As time passes, the average skill level goes down for every ladder position. There’s usually a huge skill gap between the players who reach legendary at the beginning of a season and those who do it at the end, which results on a terrible MMR spread at the beginning of the next season. Shorter seasons would reduce this skill gap (and the number of players who reach legendary, which could be or not a good thing). Incentives to play on legendary division (where A LOT of players just quit) would produce an effective spread inside that division, allowing for a better initial spread at the beginning of the next one.

Vargamonth.2047:

S2 and S3 have probably been slightly better at correlating skill and league position, while worse at producing quality matches. The balance is far better than it was for S1, but the game is still too spammy and passive proc filled (overall worse, IMHO) compared to what we had prior to HoT.

There’s still a lot of work to do to achieve a decent system:

- Safety nets at amber, emerald and sapphire need to go. They allow players to advance by pure game spam (with no toher purpose but allow to grind the legendary backpack) and, since everyone doesn’t play at the same rate, negatively affects any MMR spread til Ruby.

- Seasons need to be shorter or there should be incentives to play beyond legendary. As time passes, the average skill level goes down for every ladder position. There’s usually a huge skill gap between the players who reach legendary at the beginning of a season and those who do it at the end, which results on a terrible MMR spread at the beginning of the next season. Shorter seasons would reduce this skill gap (and the number of players who reach legendary, which could be or not a good thing). Incentives to play on legendary division (where A LOT of players just quit) would produce an effective spread inside that division, allowing for a better initial spread at the beginning of the next one.

So are you also going to say, because your team is a zerg of 70 players omni blob that curb stomps all of the 10 and 15 man groups is winning because yall have higher skilled players? Because that’s basically what I’m hearing from you right now. The fact that you are still under the illusion that their is skill in winning in the current form of the sPvP leagues, just proves my early point that GW2’s Ranked PvP is now a Special Olympics league, since you are consider to be one of the “better players”.

Reaper Alim.4176:

Aereniel.7356:

Season 1 was terrible both in terms of match making and profession balance. The rating parity in match making made the season the definition of grind with absolutely zero skill required to progress through divisions. There was no skill progression as people grinded their way up the divisions. You could reach legend and not meet a single ESL-level player on the way.

And the difference between Season 1 and the other seasons, Match Maker wise is. That instead of everybody being able to advance. In seasons 2 and 3 ANet pretty much without flat out saying it made solo queuing against the rules by just out right throwing solo queuers on teams of players who either had no clue on how to play or like to feed suicide so that the other team had a sure win. But I guess that requires more skill for pre mades and these so called “good players” then having some of the feeders and new players of both sides rather the stacking one team with all of the “pros” and I use that word very lightly, and the other team with way above average players.

I’m a bit iffy on your verbiage, but if you’re saying that solo queuers had a hard time advancing in S2/S3, that’s just tin-foil-hat level misinformation. Please stop with the silliness. The required skill level in GW2 PvP is currently so very low that any simian with two working hands can reach legend while queuing solo. Most of the meta builds are stacked with passives and practically play themselves, so there’s very little mechanical ability involved. Furthermore, Anet really wants everybody to reach at least Ruby through participation only, hence all the safety and consolation pips. So the only effort comes from playing through Ruby and Diamond, and I would argue that for many the biggest obstacle is the lack of available playing time, as opposed to any inability to climb.

There is zero prestige attached to queuing to legend solo, because anyone with a bit of spare time can do it. I have yet to see any statistical evidence that suggests otherwise. What I have seen plenty of are forum diatribes from people who played 20 games, tilted hard and then gave up. That’s not evidence though, that’s just an anecdotal lifestyle choice.

Aereniel.7356:

Season 1 was terrible both in terms of match making and profession balance. The rating parity in match making made the season the definition of grind with absolutely zero skill required to progress through divisions. Every player slogged away in his/her MMR bracket, and thanks to the safety pip mechanic basically the entire player pool could reach legendary as long as enough games were played. The most absurd aspect of S1 was that it was actually easier for players with low MMR to climb divisions, because they could play with and against low-level players all the way from amber to legend. There was no skill progression as people grinded their way up the divisions. You could reach legend and not meet a single ESL-level player on the way. And don’t even get me started on the Stronghold pip cheesing, which devalued climbing even more.

Profession balance was similarly absurd during S1. Fresh off the huge power creep of HoT launch, bunker mesmers, revenants and necros ran rampant, and the meta was all about stacking as many cheesy passives as possible. The Pro League was especially sad, as matches were often decided by who could get the first two-cap and bunker their position to a sleep-inducing victory.

Meta-wise seasons 2 & 3 were an improvement over S1, even though there is still far too much residual power creep from HoT specialisations, and build diversity continues to be extremely feeble. Match making however has clearly improved from S1, and it is now impossible to reach legend without meeting at least some skilled players along the way.

Overall, I feel that positive progress has been made from S1 to S3, but the progress has been slow and marred by facepalm moments especially in terms of profession balance, which is still dominated by silly passives and low-skill spam.

^ Best summary I’ve seen. Well said.

Also, I believe the change to prevent solo Q players from facing full 5 person premades was put in after S1, which reduced the whole argument of Solo Q being at a disadvantage of premades.

I think the biggest challenges awaiting S4 are:
– Lack of build diversity
– Profession stacking in Solo Q games unbalancing matches.

Aereniel en Dahkeus, if they will progress s4 like s2 and s3 you both be happy but not much of the pvp player base will be left over i wish you luck when both sitting solely in legend waiting for a match.

RedZebra.2345:

Aereniel en Dahkeus, if they will progress s4 like s2 and s3 you both be happy but not much of the pvp player base will be left over i wish you luck when both sitting solely in legend waiting for a match.

Who says we want S4 to be just like S2 and S3? All we’re saying is that S1 was worse.

RedZebra.2345:

Aereniel en Dahkeus, if they will progress s4 like s2 and s3 you both be happy but not much of the pvp player base will be left over i wish you luck when both sitting solely in legend waiting for a match.

Really, RedZebra this is a lost cause ANet already stated that it will not even attempt to fix the match maker imbalances till Season 5. Meaning Season 4 will progress the same way as Season 3 did. So the only question at this point is, if ANet can make such a (Jesus Fix) with the whole sPvP system for Season 5 that it raises sPvP from the dead.

Because I’m willing to doubt the only players that will partake in Season 4 are the Sadist Pre-Mades that just like beating up on handicapped unorganized teams. The other group are players that are compelled to spend their days in a game being miserable trying to obtain a Back Piece mainly for PvE. I doubt more then one handful of players outside of those two groups will even touch Season 4 Ranked with a ten foot pole.

Season 5 will have to be so good that it literally compels all of the players that seasons 1 thru 4 alienated (ie. the Jesus Patch).

S3 good ? If the matchmaking’s parity is not even, it’s a grindfest for the good team. If you want to be competitive you should only get points when winning from an equal or better team not from a bad team. Pips after losing strike common, same for double pips when having a winning strike, that’s just Las Vegas. I’m in favor for the best players to be in legend as it should be, i’ll be happy to be in ruby when the system works. The biggest problem is they reset player’s after a season and then invent some systems to let hopefully progress the good players faster, but yet this is not guaranteed as it is a crappy system. Once the players are settled, this system works against keeping everyone at his own division. In season 1 the distribution of pips was at least correlated with the mmr of the teams. ( you won from a good 2 pips, won equal 1 etc, lost from a much higher no loss). Ok players will be settled much slower, but once at the appropriate division the system will keep them at their correct spot, when the distribution table of pips is well made. S1 balance was bad but that has nothing to do with how the season works, there was also a fixable exploit. The fact that it went slower shouldn’t also be an issue as player’s are already distributed now (not enough but..) when a season starts.

Aereniel.7356:

Reaper Alim.4176:

Aereniel.7356:

Season 1 was terrible both in terms of match making and profession balance. The rating parity in match making made the season the definition of grind with absolutely zero skill required to progress through divisions. There was no skill progression as people grinded their way up the divisions. You could reach legend and not meet a single ESL-level player on the way.

And the difference between Season 1 and the other seasons, Match Maker wise is. That instead of everybody being able to advance. In seasons 2 and 3 ANet pretty much without flat out saying it made solo queuing against the rules by just out right throwing solo queuers on teams of players who either had no clue on how to play or like to feed suicide so that the other team had a sure win. But I guess that requires more skill for pre mades and these so called “good players” then having some of the feeders and new players of both sides rather the stacking one team with all of the “pros” and I use that word very lightly, and the other team with way above average players.

I’m a bit iffy on your verbiage, but if you’re saying that solo queuers had a hard time advancing in S2/S3, that’s just tin-foil-hat level misinformation. Please stop with the silliness. The required skill level in GW2 PvP is currently so very low that any simian with two working hands can reach legend while queuing solo. Most of the meta builds are stacked with passives and practically play themselves, so there’s very little mechanical ability involved. Furthermore, Anet really wants everybody to reach at least Ruby through participation only, hence all the safety and consolation pips. So the only effort comes from playing through Ruby and Diamond, and I would argue that for many the biggest obstacle is the lack of available playing time, as opposed to any inability to climb.

There is zero prestige attached to queuing to legend solo, because anyone with a bit of spare time can do it. I have yet to see any statistical evidence that suggests otherwise. What I have seen plenty of are forum diatribes from people who played 20 games, tilted hard and then gave up. That’s not evidence though, that’s just an anecdotal lifestyle choice.

Seasons 2 and 3 was super easy to advance, for the solo queuers that was chosen to by a system rather then on their own merits of skill. I mean there are so many old threads on this forums that either point out exactly what this MM system does, some directly from ANet itself, there is no need for me to repeat them. At this point we are just talking in circles. You are just as much in denial about how the MM works, as the anti global climate change lobbies are about climate change.

Reaper Alim.4176:

So are you also going to say, because your team is a zerg of 70 players omni blob that curb stomps all of the 10 and 15 man groups is winning because yall have higher skilled players? Because that’s basically what I’m hearing from you right now. The fact that you are still under the illusion that their is skill in winning in the current form of the sPvP leagues, just proves my early point that GW2’s Ranked PvP is now a Special Olympics league, since you are consider to be one of the “better players”.

The matchmaker creates both teams from the pool of available players around some ladder position, and stacks those with higher MMR, which is the oly measure of “skill” they have, on the same team. There are definitely other factors, like class compisitions and such, but it’s fairly basic to expect players wiht higher MMR to statistically advance faster.

Vargamonth.2047:

Reaper Alim.4176:

So are you also going to say, because your team is a zerg of 70 players omni blob that curb stomps all of the 10 and 15 man groups is winning because yall have higher skilled players? Because that’s basically what I’m hearing from you right now. The fact that you are still under the illusion that their is skill in winning in the current form of the sPvP leagues, just proves my early point that GW2’s Ranked PvP is now a Special Olympics league, since you are consider to be one of the “better players”.

The matchmaker creates both teams from the pool of available players around some ladder position, and stacks those with higher MMR, which is the oly measure of “skill” they have, on the same team. There are definitely other factors, like class compisitions and such, but it’s fairly basic to expect players wiht higher MMR to statistically advance faster.

Which will happen again and again and everyone ends in legend.

RedZebra.2345:

Vargamonth.2047:

Reaper Alim.4176:

So are you also going to say, because your team is a zerg of 70 players omni blob that curb stomps all of the 10 and 15 man groups is winning because yall have higher skilled players? Because that’s basically what I’m hearing from you right now. The fact that you are still under the illusion that their is skill in winning in the current form of the sPvP leagues, just proves my early point that GW2’s Ranked PvP is now a Special Olympics league, since you are consider to be one of the “better players”.

The matchmaker creates both teams from the pool of available players around some ladder position, and stacks those with higher MMR, which is the oly measure of “skill” they have, on the same team. There are definitely other factors, like class compisitions and such, but it’s fairly basic to expect players wiht higher MMR to statistically advance faster.

Which will happen again and again and everyone ends in legend.

Sure, that’s why I say leagues should be shorter (as long as ANet wants to have a more exclusive legend rank).

Vargamonth.2047:

Sure, that’s why I say leagues should be shorter (as long as ANet wants to have a more exclusive legend rank).

ok, fair enough there we differ in opinion, i am more for a system were people stay at their appropriate division over the seasons, which will give less blown out matches and keep more people in pvp as their matches are appealing even for the low ranked. Which does not exclude a privileged legend rank for the very best.

RedZebra.2345:

Vargamonth.2047:

Sure, that’s why I say leagues should be shorter (as long as ANet wants to have a more exclusive legend rank).

ok, fair enough there we differ in opinion, i am more for a system were people stay at their appropriate division over the seasons, which will give less blown out matches and keep more people in pvp as their matches are appealing even for the low ranked. Which does not exclude a privileged legend rank for the very best.

I’d be more than OK with that. It would be far better than what we have now. I just can’t figure how to do it while keeping the carrot that progression based rewards are supposed to be, since there’s no progression on a system like that.
I don’t mind having little, or even zero, progession over the course of a season, but I don’t really know how other segments of the playerbase would react to that.

Reaper Alim.4176:

Seasons 2 and 3 was super easy to advance, for the solo queuers that was chosen to by a system rather then on their own merits of skill. I mean there are so many old threads on this forums that either point out exactly what this MM system does, some directly from ANet itself, there is no need for me to repeat them. At this point we are just talking in circles. You are just as much in denial about how the MM works, as the anti global climate change lobbies are about climate change.

Oh noes, you’re one them MMR conspiracy theorists. Luckily the MM system is explained in quite thorough detail in here, you’re welcome to take a look. Nothing secret or underhanded about it:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

I don’t suppose you’d trust me if I told you that that there is no witch hunt after you, no Illuminati conspiracy and especially no MMR hell. What there is instead is an awful lot of people making overarching generalizations based on tiny sample sizes. Many an irate poster has come to this forum after having lost 50 games out of 70, claiming that the system is skewed. The reality is that in a game with as many variables as GW2 PvP, it will most likely take hundreds of games before you can judge the match maker’s functionality. The same goes for any team game where the players are shuffled between matches. That’s just simple math, there’s nothing malicious about it. Now, whether or not slogging through hundreds of volatile matches makes for a meaningful gaming experience is a different discussion entirely.

You also seem to be hung up on this notion that a select chosen group of players climbed to legend through luck, or that some people have an inflated Glicko rating because they were blessed by the match making gods. Yet I am a thoroughly mediocre player with mediocre MMR, and I have managed to get to legend every season so far while playing 100% solo. I fail to reconcile these two views, unless there are magical pixies that have taken a liking to me in the Anet server room, or under Papa Grouch’s table. As awesome as that would be, I think it’s more probable that when it comes to ladders, perseverance irons out chance.

Also, I would love to see even one of these “many old threads” regarding the supposed MM conspiracy that has even a hint of substance to it. Please link. The only one I have seen that withstood any kind of peer review was the math lab statistical analysis of the dead games created by the match maker during S2. That got fixed for S3, by the way.

@ Vargamonth “Make leagues feel more rewarding after you’ve placed in your appropriate division” is one of the things they want to work on. If they can achieve that somehow hopefully players can cope with the fact that they stay at their place unless they become better. I don’t mind staying at the spot representing my skill as long as the matches are appealing, i have no need for an extra reward but i can imagine other’s will appreciate this (ex something exlusive for pvp were you don’t need division cross to get it).