Guild Wars 2

Noob here looking understand class matchups so I can make better rotations. I play condi mesmer, power war, and power engi. What are they good against? bad against?

I wanted to learn DH since I can never beat it but it seems really squishy and i dont get how it explodes everything. whats defensive and offensive rotations for it?

I only play ranger so I only know the full list for that, so here is it:
-Beats guardian
-Beats revenant
-Beats power warrior
-Loses to condi warrior
-Beats thief
-Stalemates ranger
-Stalemates engi
-Stalemates ele
-Beats Mesmer
-Beats necro

I hope this helped

It depends on your build.

My D/Wh ele:

Stalemates thieves
Stalemates mesmers
Stalemates guardians
Stalemates warriors
Stalemates rangers
Stalemates eles
Stalemates revenants
Stalemates engineers
Stalemates necros

Abelisk.4527:

It depends on your build.

My D/Wh ele:

Stalemates thieves
Stalemates mesmers
Stalemates guardians
Stalemates warriors
Stalemates rangers
Stalemates eles
Stalemates revenants
Stalemates engineers
Stalemates necros

Nice.

OP post what you play, typing out every single matchup would be excessive.

I don’t have HoT Expansion.
-Loses to guardian
-Loses to revenant
-Loses to warrior
-Loses to thief
-Loses to ranger
-Loses to engi
-Stalemates ele
-Loses to mesmer
-Loses to necro

xeonage.1253:

I don’t have HoT Expansion.
-Loses to guardian
-Loses to revenant
-Loses to warrior
-Loses to thief
-Loses to ranger
-Loses to engi
-Stalemates ele
-Loses to mesmer
-Loses to necro

Boom.

Beware of anyone who says Rev loses to everything. They’re just too used to Rev being godly OP instead of just a little OP. Welcome to the Ele club.

Zintrothen.1056:

Beware of anyone who says Rev loses to everything. They’re just too used to Rev being godly OP instead of just a little OP. Welcome to the Ele club.

Top 250, rev loses pretty easily to just about everything 1v1 that is not support.

It only works if you know how to place yourself in the right positions at the right times. Requires a lot of general map awareness to make it work. Coming across hard counters usually means an immediate death.

HumanComplex.1648:

Noob here looking understand class matchups so I can make better rotations.
what is each class good against? bad against?

Class counters don’t exist. (with Revenant being the only exception)

Build counters do exist.

KrHome.1920:

Class counters don’t exist. (with Revenant being the only exception)

Build counters do exist.

I can’t think of any necro build that isn’t hard countered by a longbow ranger/druid if it can’t LoS.

Dodge druid counters everything and cannot be countered

dps staff ele

Counters no class
Killed by anything with an auto attack

I’ll throw in DH with lb
Beats rev
Bears warr
Beats thief
Stalemate druid (usually)
Stalemate engi (menders sneak gyro)
Beats mes
Stalemate ele
Loses to necro (power)

shadowthejedi.3089:

Dodge druid counters everything and cannot be countered

I think you’re a buffoon, but ya, druid is a 1v1 champ that isn’t applicable to conquest. Ranger has always been the best 1v1 class since launch, maybe tied with mesmer in certain metas.

The counter to that is not killing things in less than 10 minutes is not a good skill for conquest unless you want to bunker. That’s one reason why ranger has often not been part of the pvp meta.

OP. lots of fights should go a particular way in theory, but don’t. a lot of it comes down to skill/tactics, & these equal skill scenarios don’t actually come up very much.

something fun to look at are these 1v1 cups https://youtu.be/EpNnMKJr-NQ . you actually get a lot of insight from watching them.

Fluffball.8307:

KrHome.1920:

Class counters don’t exist. (with Revenant being the only exception)

Build counters do exist.

I can’t think of any necro build that isn’t hard countered by a longbow ranger/druid if it can’t LoS.

So why don’t you LoS then?

Besides that: Axe/Focus, a well timed Plague Signet for the Immob. transfer and Speed of Shadows for the 7 second cooldown Shroud2 projectile destroying gap closer can do the job. I wrecked tons of PewPew Druids in WvW with this setup. In PvP it’s even easier as the druid loses a lot of his damage while I still maintain my chills and corrupts.

For an unexperienced reaper player it might be a bit hard to find the adequate mix of dmg./armor for a specific duel as you have to tank damage by design on necro/reaper.

(good) necro beats most classes except DH(just harder) and warrior.
To de dude who said ranger beats necro, you haven’t seen one using cpc.

It REALLY depends on the class and your role in the team more than anything. Many classes should basically never 1v1, such as:

-Thief: don’t 1v1 unless you catch someone low on health/CDs and can end it quickly.
- Ele: don’t 1v1 basically ever…you should always be in a teamfight. If you are 1v1-ing on a support build, you are hurting your team.
- Necro: You should be in teamfights. You can take 1v1’s against engies or revs, but you shouldn’t unless your team is watching your back as you have no way to get out of a 2v1.
- Rev: similar to thief, although you can stall a point for a very long time against non-condi builds for support to come, and some 1v1’s are ok to take (esp if not condi).

More importantly, is choosing when to 1v1:
- On your opponent’s point and not going to end it soon or decap quickly: Just leave, you are wasting time, and losing as they own the point.
- On a neutral point, but going to get a +1 to win: take it
- On a neutral point but going to get +1: kite, stall, and leave once they have the cap.
- On your own point: go ahead and take it, leave if you are going to die, unless you know you can’t get away. Then die on point rather than off-point.

HoT counters core builds
eyy ooh

From thief perspective: generally don’t bother to 1v1, thief is not allowed to 1v1 according to dev. Generally you should be +1 someone or decapping anyway. But let’s assume you have to 1v1 (for w/e reasons) and both players are equally skilled and running meta builds.

- guard: you stand no chance
- scrapper: you stand no chance
- ele: killable, would take some time
- rev: killable, kind of
- necro: killable, kite DS
- druid: don’t bother
- mesmer: killable if you build for condi cleanse otherwise don’t bother
- war: you stand no chance

Cynz.9437:

From thief perspective: generally don’t bother to 1v1, thief is not allowed to 1v1 according to dev. Generally you should be +1 someone or decapping anyway. But let’s assume you have to 1v1 (for w/e reasons) and both players are equally skilled and running meta builds.

- guard: you stand no chance
- scrapper: you stand no chance
- ele: killable, would take some time
- rev: killable, kind of
- necro: killable, kite DS
- druid: don’t bother
- mesmer: killable if you build for condi cleanse otherwise don’t bother
- war: you stand no chance

idk why you re trying to make thief look weaker than it is by saying killable instead of saying counters/beats.

list for DP meta thief looks more like this

- beats rev
- beats mes
- beats necro
- beats ele
- beats power war
- loses to condi war
- lose to guard
- loses to engi
- loses to druid

suffish.4150:

I only play ranger so I only know the full list for that, so here is it:
-Beats guardian
-Beats revenant
-Beats power warrior
-Loses to condi warrior
-Beats thief
-Stalemates ranger
-Stalemates engi
-Stalemates ele
-Beats Mesmer
-Beats necro

I hope this helped

One thing I want to add here that Druid might win the fight against these classes, but would very likely loose the cap – especially if the druid is on low cooldowns. (except the stalemates/thief)

As an example guard can force easy decaps(don’t burst into SoS) while staying alive and getting help from allies (thief is your friend).

From a core burn guardian perspective…

If they don’t know how to manage cleanses/eat most burn application – automatic down unless an engie/ele/druid nearby.

Assuming competence
Thief – fart fire and they will die when your not looking, smart ones run – no contest. Burn hard counter.
Rev – see thief just takes a little longer if they keep dodging burn application. Burn hard counter.
DH power – if they’re not running cleanse on block should outlive while burn eats through blocks/invulns.
DH Burn – stronger condie removal should favor core burn.
Warrior – loss, can’t escape if they focus you due to crazy superior mobility can’t burn due to strong defense against condie. Warrior hard counters burn guardian.
Engie – out sustains 1v1, makes burn guardian hit like wet noodle in team fights. Engie hard counters burn.
Ele – see engie
Druid – see engie
Chrono – even fight, proper use of AOE/clones/phamtasms determines Victor.

Necro – RUSSIAN ROULETTE/Game of burn Chicken, who gets stuck with the burns loses. (most fun matchup)

If they gave burn guardian some access to boon strip I could see it being very meta.

Burn guard actually counters Druid.

Well, yes and no. In team fights druid just outright wipes out burn guard DPS. 1v1 burn guard has a few second window after druid enters CA to burst them down admittedly.

Cynz.9437:

rev: killable, kind of

Funniest piece of fiction i’ve read today

I’ll say this once again: Dodge druid counters every single class. And it has no counter. Prove me wrong

shadowthejedi.3089:

I’ll say this once again: Dodge druid counters every single class. And it has no counter. Prove me wrong

The druid doesn’t counter every class the pet does

I’d recommend playing all professions (at least in hotjoin) just to get an understanding of their abilities, but focus on becoming better at few, like you (OP) seem to be doing. Here’s a quick list of counters. Note that this assumes people using the popular/meta builds (meaning these are all HoT specializations). There are quirky builds that will go against the standard match-ups, but you won’t see them much, because they’re not as strong otherwise.

Condi Mes
. . . is strong against
Revenant: For all its avoidance, a rev lacks condi-clear and stability. They might be hard to immobilize, but you can stun them. Plus, they use a lot of skills and rely on movement, which means your confusion and torment are killing them.
Necromancer: Necro lacks avoidance, meaning they have to eat at least some of your shatters. You kite them and whittle them down. Most Necros will avoid 1v1s as a rule, anyway.

. . . will stalemate
Engineer: Blocks, avoidance, condi-clear, but minimal ranged pressure.
Elementalist: You can kill an ele, but it will take a while.
Druid *: Sort of. You can avoid dying, but you will lose the point, which leads to an important item: Mes can avoid dying rather easily, and can handle itself in a lot of 1v1s, but has a limited window in which it can comfortably contest a point.

. . . is weak against
Guardian: Blocks, blinds, AoE denial. You won’t land enough shatters to keep up sufficient pressure. You can get away, but you won’t take a point.
Warrior: Warrior has large windows in which condis don’t hurt, and in which it does a lot of damage (clones die). This isn’t the worst match-up, but it’s not fun.
Thief: THIEF! Thief kills mes. You cannot hit it; you cannot escape. Sad day.

Also note: Mesmer has one of the strongest burst set-ups in the game in moa. If you can learn to land a moa at the proper time, you can win a lot of fights.

Power Warrior
. . . is strong against
Engineer: Scrapper generally relies on standing close and going blow-for-blow. Warrior takes less damage and deals more.
Necromancer: Not as horrible for the Necro as this match-up once was, but still painful. Warriors are hard for a Necro to kite and have lots of cc. Wait out shroud and then use the following 10-second window to stun/destroy.

Power Warrior has a few match-ups at which it is at a disadvantage, but few that are truly scary. Good play is about knowing whom to pressure in a team-fight, where to rotate to press an advantage, and when to disengage to survive.

Power Engineer
. . . is strong against
Thief: Reveal, damaging block, quick cc, AoE, hard hitting attacks. The only thing a thief can do is get away, which they will generally opt to do.
Guardian: You reflect the arrows, block the burst, deal your own burst when its defenses are down.

. . . will stalemate a lot of people. You’re largely a support build, there to rez the Necro.

. . . is weak against
Power Warrior: See above. It tears through your defenses.
Necromancer: It will corrupt your precious boons, ignore your blocks, interrupt your defenses, and make your day bad. This is one of the few 1v1s a lot of Necros will eagerly take.

Not sure what you mean by “defensive and offensive rotations” for DH. Are you talking skill use or map rotations? For the former, check metabattle/watch good players. For the latter, it depends on team comp and game state.

If you don’t know what to do there is no counter in gw2 also this is not 1v1 game too. Your team role is important thing. But if we talking about similar player level 1v1 on point here is my list for some classes;

Dragon Hunter LB/S+F or Symbolic
GS/M+S Power Warrior – Win
Necromancer – Win
Mesmer – Win
Thief – Win
Druid – Stalemate or Lose
Ele – Stalemate
Engineer – Lose
Revenant – Lose
Condi LB Warrior – Lose

Mesmer Condi Meta
Warrior – Win
Necromancer – Win
Druid – Win
Engineer – Win
Revenant – Win
Ele – Stalemate
Thief – Lose
DH -Lose

Thief
Necromancer – Win
Druid – Win
Revenant – Win
Ele – Win
Mesmer – Win
Engineer – Lose
Warrior – Lose
DH -Lose

Engineer
Necromancer – Win
Druid – Win
Revenant – Win
Thief – Win
DH – Win
Ele – Stalemate
Mesmer – Lose
Warrior – Lose

Necromancer
Cant kill anything. Necro is most useless pvp class since release.

Like i said before your team role is important.
Ele – War – DH – Engi – Mesmer
Ele – War – DH – DH – Mesmer
Ele – War – War – DH – Mesmer
This teams never lost against like
Nec – Nec – Mes – Thief – Druid
Nec – Thief – Thief – Ele – Rev

I player lockdown power chrono.

from my experience, it counters support Eles, necros, condi rangers, and revenants.

It’s heavily countered by warriors, engineer, d/p thieves, and dragon hunters.

Lightly countered by druids, all other thieves, condi chrono, Greatsword chrono.

Emdrix.6124:

Cynz.9437:

From thief perspective: generally don’t bother to 1v1, thief is not allowed to 1v1 according to dev. Generally you should be +1 someone or decapping anyway. But let’s assume you have to 1v1 (for w/e reasons) and both players are equally skilled and running meta builds.

- guard: you stand no chance
- scrapper: you stand no chance
- ele: killable, would take some time
- rev: killable, kind of
- necro: killable, kite DS
- druid: don’t bother
- mesmer: killable if you build for condi cleanse otherwise don’t bother
- war: you stand no chance

idk why you re trying to make thief look weaker than it is by saying killable instead of saying counters/beats.

list for DP meta thief looks more like this

- beats rev
- beats mes
- beats necro
- beats ele
- beats power war
- loses to condi war
- lose to guard
- loses to engi
- loses to druid

You basically posted same list as mine, except it is one dimensional. I wasn’t trying to do anything, i just posted my opinion on the topic.

Zenith.7301:

shadowthejedi.3089:

Zenith.7301:

shadowthejedi.3089:

I’ll say this once again: Dodge druid counters every single class. And it has no counter. Prove me wrong

Can you link the build. I actually don’t know what you’re referring to, every druid dodges.

Spartacus.3192:

Cynz.9437:

rev: killable, kind of

Funniest piece of fiction i’ve read today

Careful, he’ll report you if you call him a class champion for “negativity”.

Why would I link my personally theorycrafted meta? It involves a massive amount of damage mitigation via movements. I’ll leave it at that

Because you stated “dodge druid” as if it was a thing everyone was supposed to know?

That, and if people don’t know what you’re talking about, your claims aren’t independently verifiable.

It’s like if I went around claiming that block guardian was able to beat everything. People could make educated guesses, but they can’t really know for sure whether I’ve come up with something awesome that nobody else has or whether I’m just blowing smoke. Given the number of players in the game and the relatively few build options each profession has, though, the assumption will be that you haven’t found something the rest of the meta has completely missed in the time you’ve been boasting about “dodge druid” and therefore you’re blowing smoke.

Maybe that assumption is wrong. Who knows? But, while it’s your right to keep it a trade secret, until it’s peer-reviewed people have no reason to think it’s more than just attention-seeking.

master.1607:

Necromancer
Cant kill anything. Necro is most useless pvp class since release.

drama llama. necro is fine.

master.1607:

Necromancer
Cant kill anything. Necro is most useless pvp class since release.

While I agree with the common opinion that necros should not seek out 1v1 fights, this is just flat out wrong. Warrior is pretty much the hardest counter to necro, but every other class (in builds that I see in ranked) is beatable.

master.1607:

Engineer
Necromancer – Win

Uh, what? Necromancer pretty much hardcounters engineer by design. Engi gets decimated by any class that boon strips or regularly reapplies conditions. Not only does necromancer do both of these, but necro also contains us in team fights through saturated CC (primarily chill and fear).

Core engi (condi) is supposed to counter warriors, and rifle engi is supposed to counter bunkers. But because both builds are literally garbage tier we’re stuck with the Scrapper, which is ideally supposed to counter ranged classes. But with dragonhunter having such a stupid amount of sustain (Purification is a 10K+ heal with Mender) we have a hard time killing them at times without good Light Aura management or risking running Marauder. And druid can just run Signet of the Wild, so those fights can get muddled. Truth is, a lot of the time DHs can just stand in their traps and symbols and walk away from their computer. LB DH has a harder time vs engi, but losing out on Magnet pulls and the Grenade Kit forcing us to melee trap/symbol builds makes the whole “engi counters DH” argument just feel like a meme in 2017.

I personally think engi is in a state where it really doesn’t hard counter anyone definitively (e.g., rather 1v1 guard with druid or war), even though we’re still hardcountered by necromancers.

Jugnificent.2061:

master.1607:

Necromancer
Cant kill anything. Necro is most useless pvp class since release.

While I agree with the common opinion that necros should not seek out 1v1 fights, this is just flat out wrong. Warrior is pretty much the hardest counter to necro, but every other class (in builds that I see in ranked) is beatable.

Warrior is actually one of the easier matchups of the current common classes. Mesmer, AS LB druid, and Thief are total shutouts any for necro. A rev that knows what he is doing is a shutout for power necro, and a uphill fight for condi necro.
Warriors are generally a shutout but it depends heavily on circumstance, condi necro can get traction on a warrior if he can get a corruption chain going.

Ele, Engi, and DH are easier fights for necro, but they will usually end up a draw. DH will typically win against a necro but it’s not a shutout.

“beatable” is a terrible term. Everything is beatable, that doesn’t mean that hardcounters don’t exist.

Good revs are hard for me to fight as a power necro, but revs just in general are very rare in ranked. Good thieves and mesmers can beat a necro too, but one mistake and they are in trouble. Warriors can practically roll their head on the keyboard and still be challenging for a necro. And I used the term beatable because the op said necro “can’t kill anything.” Necro does have counters but it isn’t every profession.

Crinn.7864:

Jugnificent.2061:

master.1607:

Necromancer
Cant kill anything. Necro is most useless pvp class since release.

While I agree with the common opinion that necros should not seek out 1v1 fights, this is just flat out wrong. Warrior is pretty much the hardest counter to necro, but every other class (in builds that I see in ranked) is beatable.

Warrior is actually one of the easier matchups of the current common classes. Mesmer, AS LB druid, and Thief are total shutouts any for necro. A rev that knows what he is doing is a shutout for power necro, and a uphill fight for condi necro.
Warriors are generally a shutout but it depends heavily on circumstance, condi necro can get traction on a warrior if he can get a corruption chain going.

Ele, Engi, and DH are easier fights for necro, but they will usually end up a draw. DH will typically win against a necro but it’s not a shutout.

“beatable” is a terrible term. Everything is beatable, that doesn’t mean that hardcounters don’t exist.

shadowthejedi.3089:

I’ll say this once again: Dodge druid counters every single class. And it has no counter. Prove me wrong

Condi warrior.

HeadCrowned.6834:

shadowthejedi.3089:

I’ll say this once again: Dodge druid counters every single class. And it has no counter. Prove me wrong

Condi warrior.

Tell me what damage a condi warrior lands if all his main attacks are dodged, mace f2 being one of them?

Condi shatter mesmer shouldn’t be losing fights in PvP game vs a DP dash thief running zero condi cleanses. Even if you are out matched skill wise you should be able to survive long enough for a +1 from your team.

Staff Acro on the other hand is a different story

shadowthejedi.3089:

HeadCrowned.6834:

shadowthejedi.3089:

I’ll say this once again: Dodge druid counters every single class. And it has no counter. Prove me wrong

Condi warrior.

Tell me what damage a condi warrior lands if all his main attacks are dodged, mace f2 being one of them?

If you can’t win an on-point 1v1 as a condi warrior vs a druid, you’re just a bad condi warrior. There is nothing more to it.

I still LOL when I see people writing that they’ve found a super secret build. With the June 2015 patch when ANET dumbed down the trait selection process coupled with the amulet system, there are no more secret builds. You can change a rune or a sigil and a utility but there are still pretty much a large number of traits you must have.

Sure there are some weird builds you can make that might counter a particular class/build but more often than not it sux vs 3 other classes.

Holy fireball kitten.

This thread is a shining example as to why we need to be able to see PvP rank badges in the PvP forum. So much misinformation.

Biggest one being people saying thief is bad in 1v1. Now there’s a surefire way to advertise your bronze level MMR if there ever was one. Have you even faced a single Legendary/Plat thief? Do you even step foot in the 1v1 dueling servers? Just because you only face bronze/silver thieves who die to stupid kitten like shield bash doesn’t mean the class is bad.

Master Ketsu.4569:

Holy fireball kitten.

This thread is a shining example as to why we need to be able to see PvP rank badges in the PvP forum. So much misinformation.

Biggest one being people saying thief is bad in 1v1. Now there’s a surefire way to advertise your bronze level MMR if there ever was one. Have you even faced a single Legendary/Plat thief? Do you even step foot in the 1v1 dueling servers? Just because you only face bronze/silver thieves who die to stupid kitten like shield bash doesn’t mean the class is bad.

Although a thief generally shouldn’t go 1v1 in PvP. Mechanically they might not be bad in 1v1’s (however there are a lot of bad matchups), but in terms of usefulness thief might be at the bottom of the list of 1v1’s.

HeadCrowned.6834:

in terms of usefulness thief might be at the bottom of the list of 1v1’s.

what does that even mean.
here watch one of sindreners lastest videos.

Stand The Wall.6987:

HeadCrowned.6834:

in terms of usefulness thief might be at the bottom of the list of 1v1’s.

what does that even mean.
here watch one of sindreners lastest videos.

You are showing some WvW footage in a PvP discussion? Thief’s value is not in 1v1’s in PvP. This video does’t have anything to do with that.

I’m just trying to understand what youre saying. it sounds like you think thief’s only value is decapping and +1ing.

The beauty of thief is that he can tell if he’s going to win the 1v1 in about 1 second. If not he leaves and decaps the point on the far side of the map. If he wins, he farms that player and their point for the rest of the match.

Stand The Wall.6987:

I’m just trying to understand what youre saying. it sounds like you think thief’s only value is decapping and +1ing.

’’Only’’ value would be a little exaggerated, but yes, that is by far the thing that thief is the most valuable at. Other classes are less mobile, don’t have stealth and are better in holding/winning 1v1’s, so it is generally much better to let them do the 1v1’s. It is almost always a waste of time if a thief is doing a 1v1, because its mobility is not being used. Besides, there are a lot of professions that a thief should lose from in a 1v1, such as engi, druid, DH.