comparing the burst of mesmer with thief
while the rest of proffesions are crying looking at number like that
Riiiiight, and for those that dont play Thief or Mesmer?
I hope this game goes burst crazy. Then we will see how much fun it is when every class is nuking the hell out of everything.
put some warrior combo burst please
edit: 8k backstab to low armor targets. usually it is around 5.5k
(edited by Shukran.4851)
While the Mesmer burst is AoE… Just sayin
Necro – Team U S A [USA]
Riiiiight, and for those that dont play Thief or Mesmer?
I hope this game goes burst crazy. Then we will see how much fun it is when every class is nuking the hell out of everything.
evry character can do these kind of hits more or less when in glasscanon and using a proper boost in damage before doing the main attack .
- warriors 100 blades
- guards greatersword combo’s
- necro has his F1 to absorb the high burst and does rather high dps to
- havent played ranger yet but they probebly got a huge dps glasscanon spec to
- ele’s if they do not go survivability can do 5k+ hits
- engi’s grenades do alot of aoe dps in glasscanon spec
tho a glasscanon spec wont be able to capture points against a high toughness servivabily spec, so glasscanon might do high dps on other low thoughness builds. but they probebly wont last long enough to win the fight ( defend / capture the points ) when facing a high toughness build.
again its all about how you play the character that makes the character strong
( sure some are easier to play then others , doesnt mean that other characters are weaker )
Riiiiight, and for those that dont play Thief or Mesmer?
I hope this game goes burst crazy. Then we will see how much fun it is when every class is nuking the hell out of everything.
evry character can do these kind of hits more or less when in glasscanon and using a proper boost in damage before doing the main attack .
- warriors 100 blades
- guards greatersword combo’s
- necro has his F1 to absorb the high burst and does rather high dps to
- havent played ranger yet but they probebly got a huge dps glasscanon spec to
- ele’s if they do not go survivability can do 5k+ hits
- engi’s grenades do alot of aoe dps in glasscanon spectho a glasscanon spec wont be able to capture points against a high toughness servivabily spec, so glasscanon might do high dps on other low thoughness builds. but they probebly wont last long enough to win the fight ( defend / capture the points ) when facing a high toughness build.
again its all about how you play the character that makes the character strong
( sure some are easier to play then others , doesnt mean that other characters are weaker )
You have no idea what you are talking about whatsoever.
The very fact you even mention an engie is a joke.
Not to mention how thief can pull those numbers over and over again with no downtime…..you know what, the level of ignorance is so extreme I am not going to even bother.
Yeah yeah, your totally right. Everything is fine.
put some warrior combo burst please
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edit: 8k backstab to low armor targets. usually it is around 5.5k
didnt want to put up the warrior bursts
woudnt want the forums to fill up with warriors are OP topics
and yeah i took more or less ruff numbers for the damage of hits ( i balanced the high backstab with the lower c&d/steal hits , think the total combo hit is more or less a good average in my eye’s )
Riiiiight, and for those that dont play Thief or Mesmer?
I hope this game goes burst crazy. Then we will see how much fun it is when every class is nuking the hell out of everything.
evry character can do these kind of hits more or less when in glasscanon and using a proper boost in damage before doing the main attack .
- warriors 100 blades
- guards greatersword combo’s
- necro has his F1 to absorb the high burst and does rather high dps to
- havent played ranger yet but they probebly got a huge dps glasscanon spec to
- ele’s if they do not go survivability can do 5k+ hits
- engi’s grenades do alot of aoe dps in glasscanon spectho a glasscanon spec wont be able to capture points against a high toughness servivabily spec, so glasscanon might do high dps on other low thoughness builds. but they probebly wont last long enough to win the fight ( defend / capture the points ) when facing a high toughness build.
again its all about how you play the character that makes the character strong
( sure some are easier to play then others , doesnt mean that other characters are weaker )You have no idea what you are talking about whatsoever.
The very fact you even mention an engie is a joke.
Not to mention how thief can pull those numbers over and over again with no downtime…..you know what, the level of ignorance is so extreme I am not going to even bother.
Yeah yeah, your totally right. Everything is fine.
just pointed out that other characters have glasscanon specs to
didnt say it was smart to play them glasscanon ….
You have no idea what you are talking about whatsoever.
The very fact you even mention an engie is a joke.
Not to mention how thief can pull those numbers over and over again with no downtime…..you know what, the level of ignorance is so extreme I am not going to even bother.
Yeah yeah, your totally right. Everything is fine.
using your own words:
“You have no idea what you are talking about whatsoever. "
thief can’t pull those numbers over and over because the combo use STEAL which has 45 secs cd + venom 45 sec cd.
“you know what, the level of ignorance is so extreme I am not going to even bother.”
an engi cannon class can shot a low armor char in few secs. ofc you don’t see so many of tem because it is a useless build. but doesnt mean it dont exist.
and calm down, nothing is fine in this pvp
(edited by Shukran.4851)
You have no idea what you are talking about whatsoever.
The very fact you even mention an engie is a joke.
Not to mention how thief can pull those numbers over and over again with no downtime…..you know what, the level of ignorance is so extreme I am not going to even bother.
Yeah yeah, your totally right. Everything is fine.
using your own words:
“You have no idea what you are talking about whatsoever. "
thief can’t pull those numbers over and over because the combo use STEAL which has 45 secs cd + venom 45 sec cd.
“you know what, the level of ignorance is so extreme I am not going to even bother.”
an engi cannon class can shot a low armor char in few secs. ofc you don’t see so many of tem because it is a useless build. but doesnt mean it dont exist.and calm down, nothing is fine in this pvp
Engi glass cannon is on par with a thief who has no traits and no runes. If that. Not even remotely comparable. Heartseeker has no cooldown, nor does backstab (both are much stronger than any engie attack ever).
Stop pretending that Thieves are ok, they are not. The intuitive system is flawed and allows for spamming of attacks.
Mesmers are OP, but its mainly a bug that will be fixed.
No other class is complained about more than the thief, and its the only class without Cooldowns. Get a clue……
You have no idea what you are talking about whatsoever.
The very fact you even mention an engie is a joke.
Not to mention how thief can pull those numbers over and over again with no downtime…..you know what, the level of ignorance is so extreme I am not going to even bother.
Yeah yeah, your totally right. Everything is fine.
using your own words:
“You have no idea what you are talking about whatsoever. "
thief can’t pull those numbers over and over because the combo use STEAL which has 45 secs cd + venom 45 sec cd.
“you know what, the level of ignorance is so extreme I am not going to even bother.”
an engi cannon class can shot a low armor char in few secs. ofc you don’t see so many of tem because it is a useless build. but doesnt mean it dont exist.and calm down, nothing is fine in this pvp
Engi glass cannon is on par with a thief who has no traits and no runes. If that. Not even remotely comparable. Heartseeker has no cooldown, nor does backstab (both are much stronger than any engie attack ever).
Stop pretending that Thieves are ok, they are not. The intuitive system is flawed and allows for spamming of attacks.
Mesmers are OP, but its mainly a bug that will be fixed.
No other class is complained about more than the thief, and its the only class without Cooldowns. Get a clue……
*engi maybe has other builds that owns glass thiefs , making engi balanced on another way. Havent played engi alot , but seen some engi realy destroying people in games to , so they probebly have a strong side to
Think its not ented for evry character to be build in the same way stats wise. hence different armors and classes
*on thiefs you dont need to be to drastic , only problem with them now is the infi stealth builds and i hope they fix it soon to.
shoudn’t be possible to be in stealth non stop while in combat , cause of c&d or blackpowder/hearthseeker combo
It’s the delivery system of the burst tied in with their innate defenses. Alot of professions can produce similar numbers
An easy fix for this so called perma stealth might be to slightly change that “revealed” status which now triggers when someone hit while stealthed and it last for 3s.
It could be changed into a stealth cooldown, that activate as soon as the player stealth and it should last for 6 seconds, this way if you wait for the whole stealth duration (usually 3s) it wont be possible to get back into stealth for 3 more seconds, while if you attack and break stealth after 1 sec you’ll still have 5 seconds cd to wait before vanishing again.
its not a secret that Mesmers and Thieves are the best burst classes
Other classes have burst options but they are not so good and they dont have the escape mechanisms that Mesmers-Thieves have..
Its a mistake imo,you give in 2 classes the most awesome escape mechanism (stealth) and automatically they become the best burst classes but in the other hand you cant give em many other defensive skills cause this would make em the ONLY classes.
My main is Ranger and im playing a Mesmer also..
i found Mesmer easy mode,many escaping skills and dmg while in my Ranger when i become focused im dead
so this is why i cant run a burst build…Not to mention that the existance of pet makes the Ranger itself doing less dmg.How i can do a burst build since a percent of my dmg is done from my pet and my pet cant execute a burst combo
its not a secret that Mesmers and Thieves are the best burst classes
Other classes have burst options but they are not so good and they dont have the escape mechanisms that Mesmers-Thieves have..
Its a mistake imo,you give in 2 classes the most awesome escape mechanism (stealth) and automatically they become the best burst classes but in the other hand you cant give em many other defensive skills cause this would make em the ONLY classes.
My main is Ranger and im playing a Mesmer also..
i found Mesmer easy mode,many escaping skills and dmg while in my Ranger when i become focused im dead
so this is why i cant run a burst build…Not to mention that the existance of pet makes the Ranger itself doing less dmg.How i can do a burst build since a percent of my dmg is done from my pet and my pet cant execute a burst combo
THANK YOU!
Finally an honest mesmer player( a miracle ^^)
@OP: Such a bad post.
1. Comparing bursts without context of what different classes offer besides burst.
2. Not taking into account speed of burst, aoe vs not-aoe, frequency of delivering the burst.
As for #2: Mesmer burst is instant (no time for reaction) while thief’s is not (you can mitigate large portion of dmg if you are reasonably quick). Thief burst is single target, mesmer can burst down whole team. Mesmer burst is on about 10-15 sec timer, thief’s is on about 45sec timer.
As for #1:
Let us think what mesmer has besides burst in the first 30 seconds of the fight: Take for example s/p + staff mesmer. You, in 30 sec, 4x blurred frenzy, i.e. 8sec of invlunerablity. You can pop two 2sec stuns, i.e. 4 sec of stun. You can pop 4 snares that last 2 sec (so about 8 sec of snare).You get 2-3 teleports off of staff. You get nasty random condition field…etc. This is purely off of weapons. He also has much more health then thief (closing the dmg gap you mentioned justifying that mesmer burst is aoe, trust me it is not justification for neither aoe aspect of it nor for extra health).
What does d/d thief specced to deliver burst you mentioned has besides that burst in the first 30 sec of the fight? He pretty much has c&d to try to stealth and backstab you again, that is it. He can try to spam you with HS, which is very noob thing to do (and it does not work against decent player). He can switch to SB and try to buy time or run away.
And the most important of all:
You simply cannot ‘calculate’ how much mesmer’s CC and extra HP is worth relative to thief’s stealth and slightly higher armor.
In essence you will not know if bursts are ‘balanced’ unless you have ranked 1v1 dm que. Only when you put top thief players against top mesmer players and check what percentage of top 100 and top 500 players are mesmers and what percentage are thieves will you know if balance is there or not. If you get 30 mesmers in top 100 and 8 thieves, you will know mesmer needs nerf and thief needs buff that is the only way I think.
Everyone’s opinion on what is balanced or not is irrelevant. You need objectively measured data to make that conclusion
One of the things about mesmer burst, is you can do it every 10 seconds or so.
Mind Wrack IS on an 11 second cooldown.
Diversion is on about a 33 second cooldown.
Decoy is on a 32 second cooldown.
Mimic is on a 36 second cooldown.
They’re entire burst combo is technically on a 36 second cooldown, but they can use one part of it (namely, the nukey part) twice in between the combo. However, you can react to this one.
Random question of the day:
Did you know blinding a Mesmer will cause a summoned clone to miss unless they aa before casting?
while the rest of proffesions are crying looking at number like that
I’ve said it once I will say it again. Warrior 100blades 28k dmg. 3 seconds lol.
Shortbow thieves are stronger than mesmer. Here’s the proof. Please leave daggers alone and nerf the shortbow.
Mind Wrack IS on an 11 second cooldown.
Diversion is on about a 33 second cooldown.
Decoy is on a 32 second cooldown.
Mimic is on a 36 second cooldown.They’re entire burst combo is technically on a 36 second cooldown, but they can use one part of it (namely, the nukey part) twice in between the combo. However, you can react to this one.
Random question of the day:
Did you know blinding a Mesmer will cause a summoned clone to miss unless they aa before casting?
thief combo is 45 seconds. however you can react to this one.
random question of the day:
did you know blinding a thief will cause a part of the combo to miss unless they aa before casting?
Mind Wrack IS on an 11 second cooldown.
Diversion is on about a 33 second cooldown.
Decoy is on a 32 second cooldown.
Mimic is on a 36 second cooldown.They’re entire burst combo is technically on a 36 second cooldown, but they can use one part of it (namely, the nukey part) twice in between the combo. However, you can react to this one.
Random question of the day:
Did you know blinding a Mesmer will cause a summoned clone to miss unless they aa before casting?thief combo is 45 seconds. however you can react to this one.
random question of the day:
did you know blinding a thief will cause a part of the combo to miss unless they aa before casting?
mesmer combo is at 45 sec to if you do not count the reduction of the traits
thief and mesmer both got same recharge 45sec – % from traits used
( if you do not know that the tooltip shows 45 sec but axualy is 36 recharge , then you probebly shoudnt be posting in here yet )
and all i’m saying is there more or less balanced in burst.
sure its an aoe effect for mesmer but it takes dubble the amount of time to pull it off and dubble the amount of skills neded to ( so dubble the amount of time to react on it to )
people seem to forget alot that clones are needed to scatter, putting up 3 clones alone takes alot longer then the full burst move of thief …..
woud be pointless char if they didnt do aoe damage while having to do twice as mutch work as thief.
( there’s still a reason why there always more thiefs in the publiek games then any other class , there just easier to play hit and run with )
(edited by Void.4239)
Mind Wrack IS on an 11 second cooldown.
Diversion is on about a 33 second cooldown.
Decoy is on a 32 second cooldown.
Mimic is on a 36 second cooldown.They’re entire burst combo is technically on a 36 second cooldown, but they can use one part of it (namely, the nukey part) twice in between the combo. However, you can react to this one.
Random question of the day:
Did you know blinding a Mesmer will cause a summoned clone to miss unless they aa before casting?thief combo is 45 seconds. however you can react to this one.
random question of the day:
did you know blinding a thief will cause a part of the combo to miss unless they aa before casting?mesmer combo is at 45 sec to if you do not count the reduction of the traits
thief and mesmer both got same recharge 45sec – % from traits used
( if you do not know that the tooltip shows 45 sec but axualy is 36 recharge , then you probebly shoudnt be posting in here yet)
and all i’m saying is there more or less balanced in burst
sure its an aoe effect for mesmer but it takes dubble the amount of time to pull it off and dubble the amount of skills neded to ( so dubble the amount of time to react on it to )woud be pointless char if they didnt do aoe damage while having to do twice as mutch work as thief.
yeah with trait cdr. am i assuming every bs build works with 15 trickery? no
Mind Wrack IS on an 11 second cooldown.
Diversion is on about a 33 second cooldown.
Decoy is on a 32 second cooldown.
Mimic is on a 36 second cooldown.They’re entire burst combo is technically on a 36 second cooldown, but they can use one part of it (namely, the nukey part) twice in between the combo. However, you can react to this one.
Random question of the day:
Did you know blinding a Mesmer will cause a summoned clone to miss unless they aa before casting?thief combo is 45 seconds. however you can react to this one.
random question of the day:
did you know blinding a thief will cause a part of the combo to miss unless they aa before casting?mesmer combo is at 45 sec to if you do not count the reduction of the traits
thief and mesmer both got same recharge 45sec – % from traits used
( if you do not know that the tooltip shows 45 sec but axualy is 36 recharge , then you probebly shoudnt be posting in here yet)
and all i’m saying is there more or less balanced in burst
sure its an aoe effect for mesmer but it takes dubble the amount of time to pull it off and dubble the amount of skills neded to ( so dubble the amount of time to react on it to )woud be pointless char if they didnt do aoe damage while having to do twice as mutch work as thief.
yeah with trait cdr. am i assuming every bs build works with 15 trickery? no
am i assuming thiefs arent able to put 30 into trickery ?no
Sure your combo will do alittle less damage but on faster recharge
am i assuming mesmers arent able to put 0 points in illusions ? no
so you axualy saying thiefs cant steal with 30 trickery trait?
and mesmers can only use scatters with 30 illusions trait ?
point is a thief and mesmer can get the same reduction on there class mechanics.
if they want to ofc.
Mind Wrack IS on an 11 second cooldown.
Diversion is on about a 33 second cooldown.
Decoy is on a 32 second cooldown.
Mimic is on a 36 second cooldown.They’re entire burst combo is technically on a 36 second cooldown, but they can use one part of it (namely, the nukey part) twice in between the combo. However, you can react to this one.
Random question of the day:
Did you know blinding a Mesmer will cause a summoned clone to miss unless they aa before casting?thief combo is 45 seconds. however you can react to this one.
random question of the day:
did you know blinding a thief will cause a part of the combo to miss unless they aa before casting?mesmer combo is at 45 sec to if you do not count the reduction of the traits
thief and mesmer both got same recharge 45sec – % from traits used
( if you do not know that the tooltip shows 45 sec but axualy is 36 recharge , then you probebly shoudnt be posting in here yet)
and all i’m saying is there more or less balanced in burst
sure its an aoe effect for mesmer but it takes dubble the amount of time to pull it off and dubble the amount of skills neded to ( so dubble the amount of time to react on it to )woud be pointless char if they didnt do aoe damage while having to do twice as mutch work as thief.
yeah with trait cdr. am i assuming every bs build works with 15 trickery? no
am i assuming thiefs arent able to put 30 into trickery ?no
Sure your combo will do alittle less damage but on faster rechargeam i assuming mesmers arent able to put 0 points in illusions ? no
so you axualy saying thiefs cant steal with 30 trickery trait?
and mesmers can only use scatters with 30 illusions trait ?point is a thief and mesmer can get the same reduction on there class mechanics.
if they want to ofc.
just play for me a shatter mesmer with not 30 illu, please.
Mind Wrack IS on an 11 second cooldown.
Diversion is on about a 33 second cooldown.
Decoy is on a 32 second cooldown.
Mimic is on a 36 second cooldown.They’re entire burst combo is technically on a 36 second cooldown, but they can use one part of it (namely, the nukey part) twice in between the combo. However, you can react to this one.
Random question of the day:
Did you know blinding a Mesmer will cause a summoned clone to miss unless they aa before casting?thief combo is 45 seconds. however you can react to this one.
random question of the day:
did you know blinding a thief will cause a part of the combo to miss unless they aa before casting?mesmer combo is at 45 sec to if you do not count the reduction of the traits
thief and mesmer both got same recharge 45sec – % from traits used
( if you do not know that the tooltip shows 45 sec but axualy is 36 recharge , then you probebly shoudnt be posting in here yet)
and all i’m saying is there more or less balanced in burst
sure its an aoe effect for mesmer but it takes dubble the amount of time to pull it off and dubble the amount of skills neded to ( so dubble the amount of time to react on it to )woud be pointless char if they didnt do aoe damage while having to do twice as mutch work as thief.
yeah with trait cdr. am i assuming every bs build works with 15 trickery? no
am i assuming thiefs arent able to put 30 into trickery ?no
Sure your combo will do alittle less damage but on faster rechargeam i assuming mesmers arent able to put 0 points in illusions ? no
so you axualy saying thiefs cant steal with 30 trickery trait?
and mesmers can only use scatters with 30 illusions trait ?point is a thief and mesmer can get the same reduction on there class mechanics.
if they want to ofc.just play for me a shatter mesmer with not 30 illu, please.
i used to have a mesmer that was GS 20/30/0/15/5, was awsom evade build.
without using scatter for main dps , i only used scatters for escapes/ finishing blows
and trust me i killed a lot of people with it to, and to mind wrack at the last bit of the fight (instead of the opener) looks hell scary to
( pretty sure some of my targets were angry to :P )
again its all up to the person what he wants and how he wants to play.