Guild Wars 2

why wasn’t this gutted? who enjoys playing against condi thief?

Condi thief was OP but manageable before sword started being used with it. Now you can’t truly kite them. So anyone who could kite them enjoyed fighting them, but now nobody enjoys fighting them. Maybe a good warrior who could time their stuns super well and kill them before resistance was up or could land Primal Bursts for cleansing (which was gutted btw with no compensation).

So yeah…nobody knows to your first question, and nobody to your second one.

Oh, also, another reason could be explained by the buff to Consume Plasma…

lol thief was buff and necro got gutted nerf to the ground

Brokensunday.4098:

lol thief was buff and necro got gutted nerf to the ground

It wasn’t just their survivability that got nerfed. They nerfed a trait that almost everyone had to take in PvP just to be viable, but it also significantly reduces damage since the time you spend in shroud got reduced substantially (hence a nerf in PvE too).

It’s probably one of the biggest nerf I’ve seen since release on any profession given how many PvP builds HAD to take this trait and virtually nothing was given back in return.

Scourge is living up to its name. It’s killing necro viability in PvP by getting traits changed so that they apply to Scourge builds too. Unfortunately, Scourge won’t work in PvP because there is no gap closer, no stability, no shroud, no blind, no stun, no chill, etc. In return, you and the opponent have to stand close to a 180 radius dinky shade for sustain, defenses, dmg, etc.

Right now…Just record one play session as a necro and watch how disastrous it would be in every battle if you didn’t have Shroud 2 for gap closing, no stability, no chill, and no second health bar…instead you got to cc yourself within 180 radius of a shade for a small and rapidly depleting barrier, torment and cripple as your “tradeoffs”. It’s almost laughable. Literally, any profession can just pick you off at range or chain cc you 100-0.

If you thought banner warriors were useless/extinct in PvP, just wait…

SPESHAL.9106:

Brokensunday.4098:

lol thief was buff and necro got gutted nerf to the ground

It wasn’t just their survivability that got nerfed. They nerfed a trait that almost everyone had to take in PvP just to be viable, but it also significantly reduces damage since the time you spend in shroud got reduced substantially (hence a nerf in PvE too).

It’s probably one of the biggest nerf I’ve seen since release on any profession given how many PvP builds HAD to take this trait and virtually nothing was given back in return.

Scourge is living up to its name. It’s killing necro viability in PvP by getting traits changed so that they apply to Scourge builds too. Unfortunately, Scourge won’t work in PvP because there is no gap closer, no stability, no shroud, no blind, no stun, no chill, etc. In return, you and the opponent have to stand close to a 180 radius dinky shade for sustain, defenses, dmg, etc.

Right now…Just record one play session as a necro and watch how disastrous it would be in every battle if you didn’t have Shroud 2 for gap closing, no stability, no chill, and no second health bar…instead you got to cc yourself within 180 radius of a shade for a small and rapidly depleting barrier, torment and cripple as your “tradeoffs”. It’s almost laughable. Literally, any profession can just pick you off at range or chain cc you 100-0.

If you thought banner warriors were useless/extinct in PvP, just wait…

funny thing is necro is out of pvp now and warriors got huge nerf also

Lord Velar.1509:

So thieves are the only cancerous condi profession?

Another witch hunt thread…..great

I have no problem with condi builds, its just thieves ability to apply massive amounts of conditions while evading / stealthed takes so much counterplay away and just makes it frustrating. A thief popping an instant, no cast venom in the middle of a teamfight or with a mesmer is not fun or interesting.

The changes were almost exclusively to address PvE. PvP only got a cursory look in this round of updates.

Nomin.5901:

Lord Velar.1509:

So thieves are the only cancerous condi profession?

Another witch hunt thread…..great

I have no problem with condi builds, its just thieves ability to apply massive amounts of conditions while evading / stealthed takes so much counterplay away and just makes it frustrating. A thief popping an instant, no cast venom in the middle of a teamfight or with a mesmer is not fun or interesting.

I see what youre saying, but I have a condi thief and a burn guard, both of them push out way more condi and consistently than my thief does

My necros runs scepter/d and gs, I don’t think anyone finds 20 bleed stacks, torment, poison and other stacks from out of no where fun either. On top of that I have it set to where I can throw any condi stacks set on me to someone else on top of whats already been put on them by me, not once, twice

My burn guard if chained right can give you 5k+ burns in a heart beat, god forbid I combo everything perfectly cause then its literally 10k burns at that point, I have 3 condi cleanses, tons of blocks, and lets not look away from the fact that theres crits coming in on top of that

Condi thieves aren’t able to place condis consistently like that, we burn through initiative fast and all of those condis are coming from burst damage, meaning that we’re blowing through our cd’s and theyre on reset after wards. So 9/10 they saw an opening and took it

I’d understand if the trait that reduced the recharge of venoms was in the same trait as the one that’s based on our poison, but its not

So once you see all those condis on you, you can literally cleanse them all (ive actually fought people in ranked and unraked who managed it) we’re quite vulnerable cause there only options from there is to fight or flight and try and wait on cd’s

Not to mention condi thieves have a serious lack of mobility compared to other thieves so we have to make those 3 dodges count. That also ties in with little to no stability

So condi thief is really no different than a power thief, its still risk vs reward, just a bit more risk involved with slightly higher pay out

Also those dodges from lotus training aren’t where the damage is coming from and is certainly not going to do enough damage to even take away half your health alone

All everyone see is the 3 dodges, no ones noting anything else that thief maybe doing that helps them secure that kill

This is why I have such a huge issue with this thread

Tired of bulls**t witch hunts

Exedore.6320:

The changes were almost exclusively to address PvE. PvP only got a cursory look in this round of updates.

so then WHY they gutted Necros Shroud tell me ?

that effects PvP more then ANYTHING else…..

Nomin.5901:

why wasn’t this gutted? who enjoys playing against condi thief?

They were busy nerfing the hell out of the allready mediocre Power Necros……

Zoltreez.6435:

Exedore.6320:

The changes were almost exclusively to address PvE. PvP only got a cursory look in this round of updates.

so then WHY they gutted Necros Shroud tell me ?

that effects PvP more then ANYTHING else…..

Side effect of changing stuff for PvE.
From reading complaints on Reddit and Necromancer forums, it looks like PvE utilized the old Speed of Shadows (lower cooldown on entering death shroud) and Vital Persistence (life force lasts longer so you need to generate less) for damage bursts in a rotation.

Exedore.6320:

Zoltreez.6435:

Exedore.6320:

The changes were almost exclusively to address PvE. PvP only got a cursory look in this round of updates.

so then WHY they gutted Necros Shroud tell me ?

that effects PvP more then ANYTHING else…..

Side effect of changing stuff for PvE.
From reading complaints on Reddit and Necromancer forums, it looks like PvE utilized the old Speed of Shadows (lower cooldown on entering death shroud) and Vital Persistence (life force lasts longer so you need to generate less) for damage bursts in a rotation.

Sooo… they forgot they have skill/trait splitting now? I don’t understand the explanation here.

And yes we did do that in PvE yet the damage was STILL disappointing compared to most other classes. It was simply “ok” even with that combination.

I think all those builds are viable at a higher level. I also think that’s a good thing. More build variety is good and newer players aren’t run off by condi builds so much as any high damage build.

Allow me to explain. A condition build will so much less damage if a player builds to cleanse conditions. Likewise, a power build will do much less damage if a player builds in more active and passive defenses to power damage.

Newer players, however, don’t do either very well. Even if they do one they often don’t do both. So naturally newer players die rapidly and often. Then they hear misinformed people saying “conditions are cancer” and “conditions are op” and believe what they hear because well, if others think it it must be true, right?

I’d wager that most people who stop playing pvp do so because of the toxicity of other players who yell and scream and bully new players who, admittedly, need to learn how to play (both their class and pvp generally).

Exedore.6320:

Side effect of changing stuff for PvE.
From reading complaints on Reddit and Necromancer forums, it looks like PvE utilized the old Speed of Shadows (lower cooldown on entering death shroud) and Vital Persistence (life force lasts longer so you need to generate less) for damage bursts in a rotation.

While Vital Persistence and Speed of Shadows are taken on PvE necro, the nerfs didn’t even affect performance. Raid Reaper takes Vital Persistence for the 20% reduction on shroud skills not because of the degen. Speed of Shadows is only taken because there is literally nothing useful in SR adept tier for PvE. Raid Reaper always enters shroud ~11seconds after leaving it last in order to fit into the weapon swap cooldowns, thus Speed of Shadows is irrelevant.

None of the necromancer trait changes affected meta PvE necro. (the food changes did however slam raid necro) The PvE’ers complaining where open world casuals that like to run perma-shroud builds (which aren’t used in high-level PvE because the damage is trash)

saerni.2584:

I think all those builds are viable at a higher level. I also think that’s a good thing. More build variety is good and newer players aren’t run off by condi builds so much as any high damage build.

Allow me to explain. A condition build will so much less damage if a player builds to cleanse conditions. Likewise, a power build will do much less damage if a player builds in more active and passive defenses to power damage.

Newer players, however, don’t do either very well. Even if they do one they often don’t do both. So naturally newer players die rapidly and often. Then they hear misinformed people saying “conditions are cancer” and “conditions are op” and believe what they hear because well, if others think it it must be true, right?

I’d wager that most people who stop playing pvp do so because of the toxicity of other players who yell and scream and bully new players who, admittedly, need to learn how to play (both their class and pvp generally).

You’re pretty naive if you think a new player doesn’t get disenchanted by certain insta-kill builds. The condi thief and burn guardian builds are almost identical to the mesmer 1 shot power builds in terms of insta-kill.

The only “insta-kill” build that is somewhat balanced for all levels of players is a rifle warrior. It has large tells and none of the CC/immunity/stealth/mobility/etc that goes with similar other builds.

I’d be fine with all of these cheese builds being removed. It’s never good for any game to have such low TTL and be 100% dependent on certain cooldowns/reactions to survive more than a few seconds. This isn’t a first person shooter and even when teaming with an experienced player, it’s hard to help the new guy against these builds in time.

saerni.2584:

I think all those builds are viable at a higher level. I also think that’s a good thing. More build variety is good and newer players aren’t run off by condi builds so much as any high damage build.

Allow me to explain. A condition build will so much less damage if a player builds to cleanse conditions. Likewise, a power build will do much less damage if a player builds in more active and passive defenses to power damage.

Newer players, however, don’t do either very well. Even if they do one they often don’t do both. So naturally newer players die rapidly and often. Then they hear misinformed people saying “conditions are cancer” and “conditions are op” and believe what they hear because well, if others think it it must be true, right?

I’d wager that most people who stop playing pvp do so because of the toxicity of other players who yell and scream and bully new players who, admittedly, need to learn how to play (both their class and pvp generally).

EXACTLY

My condi thief is Akotsumi, I’m sure theres a few people here who’s faced me and whined about the condi damage i was doing

Yet 1: My build isn’t mindless and you actually have to think about what youre doing or youll get rofl stomped, my thief seems cancerous because I’m experienced and know what I’m doing

I have literally faced off against teams in unranked even, who knew to cleanse.

I tell ppl all the time, condi thief is not as easy to use as everyone thinks

2: We burn through way more initiative than power thieves

3: because of the way most condi thief builds are set up, we lack mobility and any form of defenses including invis. An S/d condi thief needs to waste 6 initiative which is a lot just for a 3 second invis, and with condi thief having little mobility we cant really make much use of it

4: Just how we drop condi like theres no tomorrow we also have a hard time cleansing condi ourselves which is why burn guards and condi necros players work so well against us

5: once we burst through our cd’s theres really nothing we can do tbh, we have to wait (usually 30 seconds) for our burst to be ready again, until then we have no option but fight or flee, if you die by a condi thief after theyre burst and you’ve cleansed, that’s your fault not ours, yeah we have lotus training, but the only two condis it gives you that actually hurt are torment and bleed….if you die by lotus training you either had kitten near no health left or you got +1d, if neither of those happened its a l2p issue

Our steal is also a 30s cd

This is why I shake my head at threads like these, cause all they literally have to do is run a build where they have a few cleanses and theyre good

Lets not also forget to mention that condi’s really a handicapped build in a sense of, we cant really get away, we have next to 0 stability or stun breakers and once were under pressure all we really have to get away is swords 2 return and bow 5, if that combo doesn’t get us out of trouble were screwed

Condi thief is just like burn guard, we’re one trick ponies (well not so much mine cause i boon steal as well, but i digress) once you cleanse and we’re on cd, we’re usually at our most vulnerable

Condition thief is the kind of build that forces every one to spec into maximum condition clear.

For most meta builds that bring plenty condition cleanse, condition thief is not that big of problem. But a lot of players like to play off-meta builds that just can’t handle a condition burst from thief.

The primary burst of Condi thief is in the steal. Secondary is in either trap or venoms if traited. if they trait too many traps or venoms they will not have much more in the way of utility such as their own cleanses. or blocks.

If one properly uses cleanses you wait for those bursts and try to avoid it first and foremost. That fails then be prepared to your cleanse. Between the bursts you are not required to keep cleansing.

Condi thief tends to have less mobility and less in the way of stealth access then power thief. This because they can not really rely on the AA for condi damage.

If you are on something like a Resistance warrior with Zerker trait, trait high cleanses, or do Condi transfer via things like Putrid mark you can counter a lot of Condi Thief builds. If you are on another thief and trait up EA and some of those targetted cleanses you can “keep up” with condi applications.

It got nerfed today? Happy now?

Like seriously if i see another thread about condi thief after today I’m gonna start telling people off cause after this nerf

It’s really your fault if you die to one

Lord Velar.1509:

It got nerfed today? Happy now?

Like seriously if i see another thread about condi thief after today I’m gonna start telling people off cause after this nerf

It’s really your fault if you die to one

Where are you seeing these nerfs? I see nothing in the patch nor in the thief subforum about any nerfs to condi thief.

Crinn.7864:

Lord Velar.1509:

It got nerfed today? Happy now?

Like seriously if i see another thread about condi thief after today I’m gonna start telling people off cause after this nerf

It’s really your fault if you die to one

Where are you seeing these nerfs? I see nothing in the patch nor in the thief subforum about any nerfs to condi thief.

My guess is a stealth nerf, ive co mained my condi thief for a long time and know how to use him

I can tell that his damage is way lower than it used to be, then i played a couple matches, I’m used to seeing 350K+-500k per match, not one match did i break 300k in damage

Lord Velar.1509:

It got nerfed today? Happy now?

Like seriously if i see another thread about condi thief after today I’m gonna start telling people off cause after this nerf

It’s really your fault if you die to one

20K HP
3000 Armor
Still gets almost instantly blown up the moment a thief opens on my Necro…

you call that a nerf ? realy ?

Because every balance patch was a fail. Anet is incapable balancing 2 game modes, they olny can creating new pve content, skins and copying gliding and mounts from other games. Sadly. I have made mistake pre-purchasing hot ultimate, I won’t make same mistake woth PoF, especially when demo is absolute failure.

Lord Velar.1509:

Crinn.7864:

Lord Velar.1509:

It got nerfed today? Happy now?

Like seriously if i see another thread about condi thief after today I’m gonna start telling people off cause after this nerf

It’s really your fault if you die to one

Where are you seeing these nerfs? I see nothing in the patch nor in the thief subforum about any nerfs to condi thief.

My guess is a stealth nerf, ive co mained my condi thief for a long time and know how to use him

I can tell that his damage is way lower than it used to be, then i played a couple matches, I’m used to seeing 350K+-500k per match, not one match did i break 300k in damage

You need to lay down whatever you are smoking there is no nerfs to condi thief.

bluri.2653:

Lord Velar.1509:

Crinn.7864:

Lord Velar.1509:

It got nerfed today? Happy now?

Like seriously if i see another thread about condi thief after today I’m gonna start telling people off cause after this nerf

It’s really your fault if you die to one

Where are you seeing these nerfs? I see nothing in the patch nor in the thief subforum about any nerfs to condi thief.

My guess is a stealth nerf, ive co mained my condi thief for a long time and know how to use him

I can tell that his damage is way lower than it used to be, then i played a couple matches, I’m used to seeing 350K+-500k per match, not one match did i break 300k in damage

You need to lay down whatever you are smoking there is no nerfs to condi thief.

It was 9/10 stealth nerfed, also yet again, condi thief isn’t remotely op, you all just don’t know how to cleanse in a season where its condi wars…..i don’t see how thief is the issue

Yeah lets just ignore burn guards, deathly chill necros, condi ranger, condi ele, yeah….thief is the only issue

Lord Velar.1509:

bluri.2653:

Lord Velar.1509:

Crinn.7864:

Lord Velar.1509:

It got nerfed today? Happy now?

Like seriously if i see another thread about condi thief after today I’m gonna start telling people off cause after this nerf

It’s really your fault if you die to one

Where are you seeing these nerfs? I see nothing in the patch nor in the thief subforum about any nerfs to condi thief.

My guess is a stealth nerf, ive co mained my condi thief for a long time and know how to use him

I can tell that his damage is way lower than it used to be, then i played a couple matches, I’m used to seeing 350K+-500k per match, not one match did i break 300k in damage

You need to lay down whatever you are smoking there is no nerfs to condi thief.

It was 9/10 stealth nerfed, also yet again, condi thief isn’t remotely op, you all just don’t know how to cleanse in a season where its condi wars…..i don’t see how thief is the issue

Yeah lets just ignore burn guards, deathly chill necros, condi ranger, condi ele, yeah….thief is the only issue

Thief is not the only issue … But thiefs no matter if its Power or condi is among there on the top of being an Overpowered bloated Issue

overall for most classes Condi as a whole is an issue…. Condi needs nerfs Globaly….

Condi thief IS NOT OP. D/p is way better in so many ways. Thief is a +1 role, and d/p will always be superior due to on demand stealth and the damage burst. If you think condi thief is OP, you need to get a better duo partner to carry you out of bronze xD

Koto.1824:

Condi thief IS NOT OP. D/p is way better in so many ways. Thief is a +1 role, and d/p will always be superior due to on demand stealth and the damage burst. If you think condi thief is OP, you need to get a better duo partner to carry you out of bronze xD

Let me put you some perpective, as an engi, when i get basilisk venom’d outta nowhere i instantly release elixir s so i dont get blown by a power thief combo, i reengage the battle in my favor if possible.

This was my normal method, but this method backfired me when i tried a condi thief, got the same thing; steal, basilisk venom scenario, i release elixir s…. im trapped in elixir s dying in conditions, im ded, now i have to decide etiher take elixir s or elixir c, and i cant tell wich one to take because thiefs dont have 1 viable build only, its the only class that made me had to decide on get a hard condi cleanse utility, no other condi build was this opressive in condition bombs.

Ivantreil.3092:

Koto.1824:

Condi thief IS NOT OP. D/p is way better in so many ways. Thief is a +1 role, and d/p will always be superior due to on demand stealth and the damage burst. If you think condi thief is OP, you need to get a better duo partner to carry you out of bronze xD

Let me put you some perpective, as an engi, when i get basilisk venom’d outta nowhere i instantly release elixir s so i dont get blown by a power thief combo, i reengage the battle in my favor if possible.

This was my normal method, but this method backfired me when i tried a condi thief, got the same thing; steal, basilisk venom scenario, i release elixir s…. im trapped in elixir s dying in conditions, im ded, now i have to decide etiher take elixir s or elixir c, and i cant tell wich one to take because thiefs dont have 1 viable build only, its the only class that made me had to decide on get a hard condi cleanse utility, no other condi build was this opressive in condition bombs.

Wait till you run into a plat burn guard or a plat fire ele or a deathly chill necros, youll realize quickly that, in all actuality, thief isn’t the worst offender

Lord Velar.1509:

Ivantreil.3092:

Koto.1824:

Condi thief IS NOT OP. D/p is way better in so many ways. Thief is a +1 role, and d/p will always be superior due to on demand stealth and the damage burst. If you think condi thief is OP, you need to get a better duo partner to carry you out of bronze xD

Let me put you some perpective, as an engi, when i get basilisk venom’d outta nowhere i instantly release elixir s so i dont get blown by a power thief combo, i reengage the battle in my favor if possible.

This was my normal method, but this method backfired me when i tried a condi thief, got the same thing; steal, basilisk venom scenario, i release elixir s…. im trapped in elixir s dying in conditions, im ded, now i have to decide etiher take elixir s or elixir c, and i cant tell wich one to take because thiefs dont have 1 viable build only, its the only class that made me had to decide on get a hard condi cleanse utility, no other condi build was this opressive in condition bombs.

Wait till you run into a plat burn guard or a plat fire ele or a deathly chill necros, youll realize quickly that, in all actuality, thief isn’t the worst offender

I stayed in platinum/top 250 all three seasons and I have not seen any fire eles or any offensive eles that were remotely effective. Condi thieves on the other hand are a dime a dozen and very deadly.

ArthurDent.9538:

Lord Velar.1509:

Ivantreil.3092:

Koto.1824:

Condi thief IS NOT OP. D/p is way better in so many ways. Thief is a +1 role, and d/p will always be superior due to on demand stealth and the damage burst. If you think condi thief is OP, you need to get a better duo partner to carry you out of bronze xD

Let me put you some perpective, as an engi, when i get basilisk venom’d outta nowhere i instantly release elixir s so i dont get blown by a power thief combo, i reengage the battle in my favor if possible.

This was my normal method, but this method backfired me when i tried a condi thief, got the same thing; steal, basilisk venom scenario, i release elixir s…. im trapped in elixir s dying in conditions, im ded, now i have to decide etiher take elixir s or elixir c, and i cant tell wich one to take because thiefs dont have 1 viable build only, its the only class that made me had to decide on get a hard condi cleanse utility, no other condi build was this opressive in condition bombs.

Wait till you run into a plat burn guard or a plat fire ele or a deathly chill necros, youll realize quickly that, in all actuality, thief isn’t the worst offender

I stayed in platinum/top 250 all three seasons and I have not seen any fire eles or any offensive eles that were remotely effective. Condi thieves on the other hand are a dime a dozen and very deadly.

Im plat aswell, and hes right, condi ele i have not seen one at all, i ahve seen a fresh air ele but thats it, i have seen burn guards and they are not the worst thing to deal at all, i always have a good answer agaisnt their burns.

Again, whether it’s platinum or bronze, it’s a build that doesn’t help the game as a whole. It’s cheesy…just like 1 shot mesmers and burn guardians…no matter how you spin it being “balanced”.

I don’t blame the players for playing it because farming noobies or using it on a coordinated premade can make people think they are better than they are.

It’s up to Anet to decide if these type builds are REALLY what they want. If so, then every profession needs an equally viable cheese build too.

I find it funny people say burn guardian is easy to handle, but it somehow sneaks into most plat games I’ve had the pleasure of watching.
I also find it funny that people said, a long time ago back when guardian, as a class, was being discussed and those same people said it was a low-skill class therefore it would not see much popularity in the high tier play aka plat and sometimes legendary.

Now let us take a look at the platinum rank as a whole, hell or even just pop into the PVP lobby at any time and count how many people carry either as just simply a guardian or a burn guardian.

Plat is literally either guardians or thieves. Thieves, at least it has mostly a high skill cap. I can respect players who can bring themselves up into plat with thief because I’ll tell you right now, that class is hard to truly master in a highly competitive mode. Guardian is a downright laughable because its an easy class in ALL modes that it has been in.

Best part, burn guardian is getting even STRONGER when the xpac drops, so not only will they be even HARDER to kill, they most likely will have even STRONGER burn ticks even though their core traitline for burn has been slightly tuned and fixed to be a ‘nerf’.

i haven’t seen condi thieves lately the majority is running D/P or S/D marauder…

Volrath.1473:

i haven’t seen condi thieves lately the majority is running D/P or S/D marauder…

same… and they are SWARMING spvp… all im seeing is half my teams are getting instantly killed by Thiefs jumping in and out and teleporting allover the place…

im forced to stack toughness to survive all these ( i insta blow you up thiefs )

im at a point where every 2nd player is a thief….
im done with Spvp at this point until changes not happen… and looking at the chats in game im not the only one that left Spvp because thiefs….

Sorry little late in replying.

Of course insta kill builds are discouraging…but new players know they suck and expect to die to experienced players. Even non insta kill builds will kill new players quickly enough.

Point being, you can’t balance a game around people who are unfamiliar with the mechanics and end up dying because of that. I try to help new players when I can but I can’t be expected to not play at a level which can kill good players just because that may feel overwhelming to newer ones.

Gaiz….burn guard is FIINNNNNEEE….in fact…I think it needs a buff….nobody plays it in higher tiers….since nobody plays it in ESL its fiinne

saerni.2584:

Sorry little late in replying.

Of course insta kill builds are discouraging…but new players know they suck and expect to die to experienced players. Even non insta kill builds will kill new players quickly enough.

Point being, you can’t balance a game around people who are unfamiliar with the mechanics and end up dying because of that. I try to help new players when I can but I can’t be expected to not play at a level which can kill good players just because that may feel overwhelming to newer ones.

dont act like everyone is just BAD againts thiefs lol…..

Thiefs is broken both DMG utility and mobility wise something needs toning down….

As it has been posted already, condi thieves are not that strong or uncounterable. D/P DD is still top choice. Although, they are very annoying and frustrating to fight against, and that’s a perfectly legitimate complaint.

I can’t tell what’s funnier. squishies getting ganked by thfs or thfs getting salty about guard anything.

Kuya.6495:

I can’t tell what’s funnier. Quishies getting ganked by thfs or thfs getting salty about guard anything.

Quishies ? 3000 armor and 20k + 17k Shroud HP is not squishy… still getting instantly blown up by thiefs when they jump on me in seconds…

thats Broken… with that mobility and utility they should NOT have that ammount of dmg….

Condi thief was nerfed: remember the acrobatic trait nerf or at all the dodges nerf?

Condi thief has burst and this isn´t even a good one, you got warrior, guard and even fresh airs that have higher bursts. So the immob + poison + cc is what hurts some players, but there is one thing: sword thief has no dmg and on bow he has no immob….

So he can immobilise you and do no dmg or he can do a lot of dmg but you can run out of there xD

The only thief that still is broken is the D/D perma dodge thief with akrobatiks and this only if you run a 1v1 against him, so don´t 1v1 him on his point! you need too long xD

ohh and counters for S/D thief: D/P thief, Ranger, Engee, Warrior, Guardian, Condi Rev, Necro, Mesmer. Checks for S/D thief: Ele, Rev.

So his dmg is only good if the players have a too low reactiontime, means they can´t also dodge the f-skills from warrior bevore he got nerfed or worser after nerf xD.

Oh and Dagger autoattack does more dmg then any other Sword skill at the same time, to be honest: Sword/ dagger has one of the lowest dmg on thief (if i remember right 30-50% less dmg depence if condi or power)

means he fights you in a 1v1 over 30 seconds longer and only in teamfight he can burst you once all 40 seconds as high as a guard can do in 20 seconds.

So pls buff more the basic knowledge from our comunity, ty arenanet!
Edit: forgot some points, yes he is good at something: +1 means he can spike bether with one burst player. But he can´t burst himself so he needs a second player that attacks the same target and ofc, most metabuilds have more then enouth condiclans!

xp eke xp.6724:

Condi thief was nerfed: remember the acrobatic trait nerf or at all the dodges nerf?

Condi thief has burst and this isn´t even a good one, you got warrior, guard and even fresh airs that have higher bursts. So the immob + poison + cc is what hurts some players, but there is one thing: sword thief has no dmg and on bow he has no immob….

So he can immobilise you and do no dmg or he can do a lot of dmg but you can run out of there xD

The only thief that still is broken is the D/D perma dodge thief with akrobatiks and this only if you run a 1v1 against him, so don´t 1v1 him on his point! you need too long xD

ohh and counters for S/D thief: D/P thief, Ranger, Engee, Warrior, Guardian, Condi Rev, Necro, Mesmer. Checks for S/D thief: Ele, Rev.

So his dmg is only good if the players have a too low reactiontime, means they can´t also dodge the f-skills from warrior bevore he got nerfed or worser after nerf xD.

Oh and Dagger autoattack does more dmg then any other Sword skill at the same time, to be honest: Sword/ dagger has one of the lowest dmg on thief (if i remember right 30-50% less dmg depence if condi or power)

means he fights you in a 1v1 over 30 seconds longer and only in teamfight he can burst you once all 40 seconds as high as a guard can do in 20 seconds.

So pls buff more the basic knowledge from our comunity, ty arenanet!
Edit: forgot some points, yes he is good at something: +1 means he can spike bether with one burst player. But he can´t burst himself so he needs a second player that attacks the same target and ofc, most metabuilds have more then enouth condiclans!

So why do you care if it gets nerfed? Why are so many thieves running it now? Just because you are bad at condi thief or can’t see the obvious doesn’t change the actual evidence of what’s happening in the game.

Let me guess…you actually do play condi thief even though you wrote a wall-of-text spin saying how bad it is.

SPESHAL.9106:

So why do you care if it gets nerfed? Why are so many thieves running it now? Just because you are bad at condi thief or can’t see the obvious doesn’t change the actual evidence of what’s happening in the game.

Let me guess…you actually do play condi thief even though you wrote a wall-of-text spin saying how bad it is.

So many thieves as opposed to what? Just d/p thief? So it is bad that thief has more than 1 viable builds, even though 1 is less effective and countered by the far more popular build? As stated condi thief has weaknesses. Hell, those other “cheese builds” like burn guard and 1 shot mesmer have weaknesses as well. Just because you don’t know their weakness doesn’t mean they are op.

I get excited when the other team has a 1 shot mesmer because I know how to exploit it. Same with burn guard, however I am a little more wary of burn guard more so for my team and whether or not they can move out of a big red circle on the ground. However even then the easiest way around this is to throw up a target on the guard and focus him.

There is no build in the game that can not be countered in some way and a refusal to believe this and start calling for nerfs is the problem with the playerbase today. How do you expect new players to get better if they see people who have played the game for a time calling for nerfs when it is simply a L2P issue? The new players will more than likely just follow suit and call for nerfs on what they don’t understand.

ArthurDent.9538:

Lord Velar.1509:

Ivantreil.3092:

Koto.1824:

Condi thief IS NOT OP. D/p is way better in so many ways. Thief is a +1 role, and d/p will always be superior due to on demand stealth and the damage burst. If you think condi thief is OP, you need to get a better duo partner to carry you out of bronze xD

Let me put you some perpective, as an engi, when i get basilisk venom’d outta nowhere i instantly release elixir s so i dont get blown by a power thief combo, i reengage the battle in my favor if possible.

This was my normal method, but this method backfired me when i tried a condi thief, got the same thing; steal, basilisk venom scenario, i release elixir s…. im trapped in elixir s dying in conditions, im ded, now i have to decide etiher take elixir s or elixir c, and i cant tell wich one to take because thiefs dont have 1 viable build only, its the only class that made me had to decide on get a hard condi cleanse utility, no other condi build was this opressive in condition bombs.

Wait till you run into a plat burn guard or a plat fire ele or a deathly chill necros, youll realize quickly that, in all actuality, thief isn’t the worst offender

I stayed in platinum/top 250 all three seasons and I have not seen any fire eles or any offensive eles that were remotely effective. Condi thieves on the other hand are a dime a dozen and very deadly.

ive run into a few, yeah they aren’t as common, but good lord do they hurt

Lilyanna.9361:

I find it funny people say burn guardian is easy to handle, but it somehow sneaks into most plat games I’ve had the pleasure of watching.
I also find it funny that people said, a long time ago back when guardian, as a class, was being discussed and those same people said it was a low-skill class therefore it would not see much popularity in the high tier play aka plat and sometimes legendary.

Now let us take a look at the platinum rank as a whole, hell or even just pop into the PVP lobby at any time and count how many people carry either as just simply a guardian or a burn guardian.

Plat is literally either guardians or thieves. Thieves, at least it has mostly a high skill cap. I can respect players who can bring themselves up into plat with thief because I’ll tell you right now, that class is hard to truly master in a highly competitive mode. Guardian is a downright laughable because its an easy class in ALL modes that it has been in.

Best part, burn guardian is getting even STRONGER when the xpac drops, so not only will they be even HARDER to kill, they most likely will have even STRONGER burn ticks even though their core traitline for burn has been slightly tuned and fixed to be a ‘nerf’.

Because platinum is extremely easy to get into, quit making it out like it’s a hard thing to do and that if you are to get into plat then you will be paired with actually good players… Platinum is nothing special and is , again, very easy to get into especially if you do well on your placements with a duo.

ZhouX.8742:

Lilyanna.9361:

I find it funny people say burn guardian is easy to handle, but it somehow sneaks into most plat games I’ve had the pleasure of watching.
I also find it funny that people said, a long time ago back when guardian, as a class, was being discussed and those same people said it was a low-skill class therefore it would not see much popularity in the high tier play aka plat and sometimes legendary.

Now let us take a look at the platinum rank as a whole, hell or even just pop into the PVP lobby at any time and count how many people carry either as just simply a guardian or a burn guardian.

Plat is literally either guardians or thieves. Thieves, at least it has mostly a high skill cap. I can respect players who can bring themselves up into plat with thief because I’ll tell you right now, that class is hard to truly master in a highly competitive mode. Guardian is a downright laughable because its an easy class in ALL modes that it has been in.

Best part, burn guardian is getting even STRONGER when the xpac drops, so not only will they be even HARDER to kill, they most likely will have even STRONGER burn ticks even though their core traitline for burn has been slightly tuned and fixed to be a ‘nerf’.

Because platinum is extremely easy to get into, quit making it out like it’s a hard thing to do and that if you are to get into plat then you will be paired with actually good players… Platinum is nothing special and is , again, very easy to get into especially if you do well on your placements with a duo.

Excuse me sir, did I complain anywhere about my MMR or the fact that I was in t3 gold?
Did you just make an assumption because I was talking about a /build/, and not MMR.

I know it may be hard for you to understand, but there are actually some people that don’t zero in and complain about being in set tier because their ‘teammates are bad’

So I’ll sit here and wait for you to point out the direct wording as to where I was whining about the fact that I wasn’t in plat this season.

Lord Velar.1509:

bluri.2653:

Lord Velar.1509:

Crinn.7864:

Lord Velar.1509:

It got nerfed today? Happy now?

Like seriously if i see another thread about condi thief after today I’m gonna start telling people off cause after this nerf

It’s really your fault if you die to one

Where are you seeing these nerfs? I see nothing in the patch nor in the thief subforum about any nerfs to condi thief.

My guess is a stealth nerf, ive co mained my condi thief for a long time and know how to use him

I can tell that his damage is way lower than it used to be, then i played a couple matches, I’m used to seeing 350K+-500k per match, not one match did i break 300k in damage

You need to lay down whatever you are smoking there is no nerfs to condi thief.

It was 9/10 stealth nerfed, also yet again, condi thief isn’t remotely op, you all just don’t know how to cleanse in a season where its condi wars…..i don’t see how thief is the issue

Yeah lets just ignore burn guards, deathly chill necros, condi ranger, condi ele, yeah….thief is the only issue

What condition ele’s are you running to bro?

Lilyanna.9361:

ZhouX.8742:

Lilyanna.9361:

I find it funny people say burn guardian is easy to handle, but it somehow sneaks into most plat games I’ve had the pleasure of watching.
I also find it funny that people said, a long time ago back when guardian, as a class, was being discussed and those same people said it was a low-skill class therefore it would not see much popularity in the high tier play aka plat and sometimes legendary.

Now let us take a look at the platinum rank as a whole, hell or even just pop into the PVP lobby at any time and count how many people carry either as just simply a guardian or a burn guardian.

Plat is literally either guardians or thieves. Thieves, at least it has mostly a high skill cap. I can respect players who can bring themselves up into plat with thief because I’ll tell you right now, that class is hard to truly master in a highly competitive mode. Guardian is a downright laughable because its an easy class in ALL modes that it has been in.

Best part, burn guardian is getting even STRONGER when the xpac drops, so not only will they be even HARDER to kill, they most likely will have even STRONGER burn ticks even though their core traitline for burn has been slightly tuned and fixed to be a ‘nerf’.

Because platinum is extremely easy to get into, quit making it out like it’s a hard thing to do and that if you are to get into plat then you will be paired with actually good players… Platinum is nothing special and is , again, very easy to get into especially if you do well on your placements with a duo.

Excuse me sir, did I complain anywhere about my MMR or the fact that I was in t3 gold?
Did you just make an assumption because I was talking about a /build/, and not MMR.

I know it may be hard for you to understand, but there are actually some people that don’t zero in and complain about being in set tier because their ‘teammates are bad’

So I’ll sit here and wait for you to point out the direct wording as to where I was whining about the fact that I wasn’t in plat this season.

I think it may be hard for you to read what I actually wrote. Please re-read it and get back to me.