Guild Wars 2

yes i said it. pvp seems to have become nothing more than condition build after condition build. i spend more time looking at my condition bar trying to fight off conditions with my cleanses than actually engaging in the fight. if i dont pay attention for half a second my health instantly drops at like 3k a tick and im dead, meanwhile they put conditions on you faster than your condition clearing skills can even recharge. this isnt fun anymore

You mean burn wars. xD
Some other condis like bleeing torment and poison could actually use a buff.

The same Specs that killed small scale roaming in Wvw are now in Pvp…
I wonder what will happen..

Highlie.7641:

The same Specs that killed small scale roaming in Wvw are now in Pvp…
I wonder what will happen..

what do you mean?

The issue with MOST condi specs is that they are skill-less. Basically it is true something that is AOE and let the game decision win. AOE in general needs a large nerf. Make melee condi damage stronger.

style.6173:

The issue with MOST condi specs is that they are skill-less. Basically it is true something that is AOE and let the game decision win. AOE in general needs a large nerf. Make melee condi damage stronger.

I have to be at least 50% more mindful of my opponents build before I engage with a condi build than I do with a power build. I’m guessing maybe you’re referring to burn guards?

So a burn guard wants to kill you as an example: He teles on you and burst on you. Then you cleanse his burns. Oh no… His burst was negated by one skill and you moving out of his ground skill.

So a shatter mes wants to kill you: if you had no stun break you’re likely going to die. And if you manage to thwart his stealth burst, he stealths and re engages you a moment later.

As a general point it sucks to die to conditions when you’re out of cleanses… But it equally sucks to die to a zerker burst when you’re out of stun breaks or invulns.

The problem ISN’T conditions, power damage, or burst. Currently annoying condi builds are just a symptom.

The problem IS is instants and procs, which apply so much extra unavoidable damage without a tell. GW2 is a game that relies on two people responding to the animations of one another. However, power creep has made it such that you can fire off so much damage (be a burst + air + fire + instant skills, or condi burst augmented by rune/sigil/trait procs) without a tell, regardless of the source.

Just reduce auto-procs across the board (both offensive and defensive) and rework instant offensive skills to have some kind of tell. Stealth bursts, however, wouldn’t be a problem if you couldn’t compound a million instants to increase the damage to 1-shot levels.

I like the heavy condition model far better than the Berserker insta kill one. It involves more strategy and thinking than just being the first to get the burst combo off.

It also tends to make a place for a kinda-healer/condi remover role.

Ithilwen.1529:

I like the heavy condition model far better than the Berserker insta kill one. It involves more strategy and thinking than just being the first to get the burst combo off.

It also tends to make a place for a kinda-healer/condi remover role.

No it does not. I agree, 1-shot builds are equally stupid but with the abundance of AoE-condis and passive procs etc. there is really no difference. Whoever turns the floor into bleeding crippling burning lava first wins.

ragnarokda.1805:

style.6173:

The issue with MOST condi specs is that they are skill-less. Basically it is true something that is AOE and let the game decision win. AOE in general needs a large nerf. Make melee condi damage stronger.

I have to be at least 50% more mindful of my opponents build before I engage with a condi build than I do with a power build. I’m guessing maybe you’re referring to burn guards?

So a burn guard wants to kill you as an example: He teles on you and burst on you. Then you cleanse his burns. Oh no… His burst was negated by one skill and you moving out of his ground skill.

So a shatter mes wants to kill you: if you had no stun break you’re likely going to die. And if you manage to thwart his stealth burst, he stealths and re engages you a moment later.

As a general point it sucks to die to conditions when you’re out of cleanses… But it equally sucks to die to a zerker burst when you’re out of stun breaks or invulns.

I guess you are not as good as you think you are. A decent burn guard can reapply those burning stacks quite fast. Definitely faster before your condi cleanse will be off of its cooldown. So you’ll just watch your HP ticking off. With nothing you can do about it.

Now if invulnerabilities were blocking condi damage as well ….

Where do you see all these condition builds after condition builds? Because hotjoin heroes don’t count.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Now if invulnerabilities were blocking condi damage as well ….

They do. The only thing they don’t do is stopping the damage you take from hits from before the activation of the invulnerability just like hits from power.

You can always pack more cleanse…

Conditions have been useless for 3 years. We’re only just entering a period where ppl have to actively manage their cleanses, the way it was always supposed to be, and you are complaining about it.

Sounds like l2p…and l2adapt.

ragnarokda.1805:

style.6173:

The issue with MOST condi specs is that they are skill-less. Basically it is true something that is AOE and let the game decision win. AOE in general needs a large nerf. Make melee condi damage stronger.

I have to be at least 50% more mindful of my opponents build before I engage with a condi build than I do with a power build. I’m guessing maybe you’re referring to burn guards?

So a burn guard wants to kill you as an example: He teles on you and burst on you. Then you cleanse his burns. Oh no… His burst was negated by one skill and you moving out of his ground skill.

So a shatter mes wants to kill you: if you had no stun break you’re likely going to die. And if you manage to thwart his stealth burst, he stealths and re engages you a moment later.

As a general point it sucks to die to conditions when you’re out of cleanses… But it equally sucks to die to a zerker burst when you’re out of stun breaks or invulns.

Butn guard proceeds to use more sklls. Heave. Forbid he gets low on hp, then he blocks, while he blocks you get burned because tbat makes so much sense.

Cooldowns are off in about 14 seconds and he applies more burning, eventually you run out of cleanse. Not on all classes. But on most.

You clearly should set up better hypothetical scenarios.

Sube Dai.8496:

You can always pack more cleanse…

Conditions have been useless for 3 years. We’re only just entering a period where ppl have to actively manage their cleanses, the way it was always supposed to be, and you are complaining about it.

Sounds like l2p…and l2adapt.

Outcleansing isnt possible on all classes. Kitten stop thinking of this from just your perspective.

GrandHaven.1052:

Sube Dai.8496:

You can always pack more cleanse…

Conditions have been useless for 3 years. We’re only just entering a period where ppl have to actively manage their cleanses, the way it was always supposed to be, and you are complaining about it.

Sounds like l2p…and l2adapt.

Outcleansing isnt possible on all classes. Kitten stop thinking of this from just your perspective.

I’m curious as to what you’re referring to; what condi spec vs what class who supposedly can’t cleanse fast and do you mean team vs team or solo 1v1?

I’ll tell you right now that Burn Guards are not that great in 1v1s, in fact, almost every class can pwn the burn guard in that area. Even Good Engineers can beat a condi guardian and they have some of the worse condi removals in the game.

Cele Ele isn’t exactly a condi build but close enough. They rock in 1v1s unless that person is a signet necro or Mesmer while Condi Mesmer is the best 1v1 fighter with little to no counters.

When people say they don’t got enough cleanses, it means they got outplayed by a burn guardian, got facerolled by an ele (hey, we all do) or they were fighting a condi Mesmer 1v1

Saiyan.1704:

GrandHaven.1052:

Sube Dai.8496:

You can always pack more cleanse…

Conditions have been useless for 3 years. We’re only just entering a period where ppl have to actively manage their cleanses, the way it was always supposed to be, and you are complaining about it.

Sounds like l2p…and l2adapt.

Outcleansing isnt possible on all classes. Kitten stop thinking of this from just your perspective.

I’m curious as to what you’re referring to; what condi spec vs what class who supposedly can’t cleanse fast and do you mean team vs team or solo 1v1?

I’ll tell you right now that Burn Guards are not that great in 1v1s, in fact, almost every class can pwn the burn guard in that area. Even Good Engineers can beat a condi guardian and they have some of the worse condi removals in the game.

Cele Ele isn’t exactly a condi build but close enough. They rock in 1v1s unless that person is a signet necro or Mesmer while Condi Mesmer is the best 1v1 fighter with little to no counters.

When people say they don’t got enough cleanses, it means they got outplayed by a burn guardian, got facerolled by an ele (hey, we all do) or they were fighting a condi Mesmer 1v1

Condi mesmer is a problem for engi, even the slightest misstep in shatter dodge get you screwed on engi.

The problem i have with burn guard isnt the 1v1 capability, I am well aware that even engi can beat them,.

My problem is that they can stall cap incredibly hard while still maintaining prodigious counter pressure.

Ravenmoon.5318:

ragnarokda.1805:

style.6173:

The issue with MOST condi specs is that they are skill-less. Basically it is true something that is AOE and let the game decision win. AOE in general needs a large nerf. Make melee condi damage stronger.

I have to be at least 50% more mindful of my opponents build before I engage with a condi build than I do with a power build. I’m guessing maybe you’re referring to burn guards?

So a burn guard wants to kill you as an example: He teles on you and burst on you. Then you cleanse his burns. Oh no… His burst was negated by one skill and you moving out of his ground skill.

So a shatter mes wants to kill you: if you had no stun break you’re likely going to die. And if you manage to thwart his stealth burst, he stealths and re engages you a moment later.

As a general point it sucks to die to conditions when you’re out of cleanses… But it equally sucks to die to a zerker burst when you’re out of stun breaks or invulns.

I guess you are not as good as you think you are. A decent burn guard can reapply those burning stacks quite fast. Definitely faster before your condi cleanse will be off of its cooldown. So you’ll just watch your HP ticking off. With nothing you can do about it.

Now if invulnerabilities were blocking condi damage as well ….

This is true. However, I’m not just standing there cleansing his burns with my finger up my butt. My point in this scenario is that even IF the burn guard gets to burst you again, there was a period of counter play time for both players. If he wins, he managed to live long enough to get more burn on you and you had no way to stop it. Or you win. The fight was more engaging than being one shot by someone. That was my point. I mean kitten, I don’t even play guard. That’s just the next thing people complain about after ele these days. Lol. Sorry for the terribly set up example.

Tim.6450:

Ravenmoon.5318:

Now if invulnerabilities were blocking condi damage as well ….

They do. The only thing they don’t do is stopping the damage you take from hits from before the activation of the invulnerability just like hits from power.

If only I could bash 12k damage without even making critical hits. That would be superb. It would be like … press #2 – 12k dps … #DealWithIt

Besides if some power build is bugging you too much, ramp up that toughness and vitality and mock them. I see no condition armor outside condi cleanse. Besides Vitality, but vitality helps versus power builds too. Toughness even moreso

Watch the log after u died. Normally u see somethin like this:

30.000 damage burn
25.000 damage torment
25.000 damage confusion
2.000 damage (insert melee attack here)

So where is the uber direct damage? I only see people dieing from conditions. It is condition wars more than ever.

Someone remember the nerf of confusion for pvp years ago?

This was nothing if u see the burning damage nowadays.

And people cried when they wanted to implement Perplexity runes for pvp, too. – LOL -

This is because it shows all dmg from one condition added together and not for each different skill, like it does with direct dmg.

Btw my death logs often shows direct dmg attacks. It just depends on my opponents of course and the majority i encounter in PvP are still playing power builds (and cele ele – which is not a condi build, but hybrid)

I died once to a condi Mesmer with a venom share thief locking me down and my damage break down was 4k back stab, 6k back stab, 14k confusion hahahaha.

You should look at the new match summaries at the end of the match. Where it shows Damage dealt, Condi damage dealt, Damage recieved, Condi damage recieved, Healing to self. Healing to others etc.,

At the end of every match i still recieve much more direct damage than i do condi damage.

Then again i run a build that has a ton of condi cleansing ability.

Ravenmoon.5318:

If only I could bash 12k damage without even making critical hits. That would be superb. It would be like … press #2 – 12k dps … #DealWithIt

Oh and what is is this magical #2 skill? Besides even if it exists (might be but not sure), it means that is a specific skill problem not a condition problem.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Besides if some power build is bugging you too much, ramp up that toughness and vitality and mock them. I see no condition armor outside condi cleanse. Besides Vitality, but vitality helps versus power builds too. Toughness even moreso

Ok the list of anti condi (meaning condi damage only) mechanics includes: conditon cleanse (includes conversion and transfer), resistance,-X% condition duration, prevention condition applictation (berserker stance) and -X% condition damage. Total number: 5.

The list of anti power (meaning power damage only) mechanics includes : protection,armor,weakness and X% damage reduction, full damage negation (endure pain and signet of stone). Total number: 5.

i would like that condition damage would be affected by enemy armor stat, by protection and weakness. So that condi burst would have same bad results as a power burst if done to a bunker.
Also, to compensate this, i would make only no damage condition cleansable, like slow, chill, cripple, immobilize, vulnerability.

I think this would fit much more the concept of “damage during time” that condition should be.
Also this would give armor and togness a decent role in the game, so that class that have more base armor but less evades/block/disappears would be more in match with classes that with less armor have more survivability compared to the so called “heavy armor” class (see warrior sustain compared to mesmer and elementalist)

Also, thinking about cleanse as a counter to condi burst as actualy are is totaly wrong, you will need one second to react to the fact you have 25 stack of confusion and many burns on you, so with armor affecting condition damage, you wont die in less than a thick, so that the opponent will have to keep it up the condi stack to eventualy kill you.

Maybe you should stop playing hotjoins, because actual games are full of eles/guards/wars/necros/rangers that just spam condi cleanse after condi cleanse after condi cleanse after condi cleanse…

No Pulse.2967:

Maybe you should stop playing hotjoins, because actual games are full of eles/guards/wars/necros/rangers that just spam condi cleanse after condi cleanse after condi cleanse after condi cleanse…

I wonder why… like why would a necro spam condi cleanse when they have 40k+ health with Death Shroud? Oh yeah… my 40k rampage healthpool was depleted in 6s by burning.

Varonth.5830:

I wonder why… like why would a necro spam condi cleanse when they have 40k+ health with Death Shroud?

Death Magic

Varonth.5830:

Oh yeah… my 40k rampage healthpool was depleted in 6s by burning.

So after 8s of failing to force some of the guard’s/engi’s cooldowns you failed to cancel rampage for 6 whole seconds?