Guild Wars 2

It’s no rocket science that when you’re downed you’re the guy who’s knocking on death’s door, and not the one stomping you, but still in 1v1 situations being downed should always mean a fighting chance. Small one, but a one non the less. Yet we all know too well about:

- mist form stomps
- elixir s stomps
- stealth stomps
- stability stomps (hi guardians and warriors)

Stability stomps are getting fixed. I’m glad devs realised that having 1/3 of your character’s game mechanic (control aspect) completely shut down by a single boon cast was ridicilous and are making ammends.

I do take huge issue with mist form and elixir S stomps – transformed characters should not be able to perform stomping. Let alone when that transformation gives them invulnerability.
The very idea of both those skills is “you can’t hurt me, but i can’t hurt you either”. Stomping should be no exception. If ele is so bend on successful stomp he can build for stability or try to blind me, or reflect my attack if it’s a projectile.
Sure it’s somewhat a tradeoff given the large cooldown sacrificed for the stomp, but that does not change that it’s uncounterable for those who cannot run like hell from their downed spot, and against the skill’s purpose.

Stealth is , most broken of all, as characters who can’t see stomper can’t target him with their skills. And that wouldn’t be half as bad if in such situation they could at least cast those skills at spot of their choosing or around themselves if it’s aoe (yup talking ranger’s thunderclap). But no. 100% kill. Sure eles, thieves and mesmers can move out of stomping zone before it lands. But what about rest of professions? Though luck! And unlike others mentioned here, stealth is dirt cheap in terms of downtime, to a point even longbow rangers can use it without a single worry in the world.

So please a-net, take a look at this and curb this to a point where ensuring a successful stomp require some thought and successful struggle between defender and attacker, and not just one button press after “F”.

I just hate when I try and stomp you and you blink away!

elixir S and myst form on one hand have quite huge cd … i can use it usually once in a fight …. and when i pop it up i have not it for saving my life. For stealth the question is different… you can not interrupt it but your teammates can make great aoe … and use blind … not always this works but it is better than nothing

and you forgot f3 from mesmer … it is another way of stomping but this too has long cd

Ranger posting about nerfing stomps and op downstates… Going to go post on the ranger forums that mesmer ranged dps is to strong… Stay on your ledge and no one will stomp you ranger.

I posted about downstates being OP? Oh do quote, i dare you.
Memser damage too strong? Oh do quite i dare you.
Me on a ledge? i double dare you.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Stability stomps are getting fixed.

They are not, look at the numbers after the change.

PierPiero.9142:

and you forgot f3 from mesmer

You mean F4

BTT: For a safe-stomp or safe-Rez (like warbanner) people have to dedicate an ability to do so. F.e. if you want to safe the elixer-s CD for the stomp, you are not having this stunbreaker to survive / if you have to use it to survive, you won’t have it as a safestomp.

Everyone has a counterplay. Two players rezzing is faster than one stomping. Stealthing a target also avoids the stomp. Warbanner can be interrupted.

The existence of those mechanics are not a problem, but we could discuss about the cooldown and cast time.

I like how there is a lack of hate from blind stomps by the OP.

I’ll take stomps balanced for team situations over stomps balanced for duels any day.

No hate for portal stomps and my ability to finish you from 6k range? :p

Stealth is , most broken of all, as characters who can’t see stomper can’t target him with their skills.

Yeah. Make Stealthed people visible.
10/10 legit fix.

Maybe no ability to stomp while cloaked? Do it like you do fighting – one stealthed shot then fight revealed, or just leave the scene.

My personal views are:
- Stability is okay
- Blind stomping is legit.
- Stealth stomping is fine, you can cc around a downed ally. HOWEVER, I do feel like initiating stomps/finishing stomps on a stealthed person should work, so long as you can find them in stealth just like other attacks. (Would probably require an updated thief downed skill to be fair)

However
- Invuln Stomping is not okay in my opinion~ as it offers absolutely 0 counterplay. Long cooldown or not, its just too safe.

That’s my unbiased view on it all. (I play necromancer, I basically can’t do anything cool to stomp people, so take it for what it is. :P )

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Maybe no ability to stomp while cloaked? Do it like you do fighting – one stealthed shot then fight revealed, or just leave the scene.

Maybe no.

ronpierce.2760:

My personal views are:
- Stability is okay
- Blind stomping is legit.
- Stealth stomping is fine, you can cc around a downed ally. HOWEVER, I do feel like initiating stomps/finishing stomps on a stealthed person should work, so long as you can find them in stealth just like other attacks. (Would probably require an updated thief downed skill to be fair)

However
- Invuln Stomping is not okay in my opinion~ as it offers absolutely 0 counterplay. Long cooldown or not, its just too safe.

That’s my unbiased view on it all. (I play necromancer, I basically can’t do anything cool to stomp people, so take it for what it is. :P )

Stealth counters it.
Since invuln has a long cooldown, it is okay if it has a few counterplays.

runeblade.7514:

ronpierce.2760:

My personal views are:
- Stability is okay
- Blind stomping is legit.
- Stealth stomping is fine, you can cc around a downed ally. HOWEVER, I do feel like initiating stomps/finishing stomps on a stealthed person should work, so long as you can find them in stealth just like other attacks. (Would probably require an updated thief downed skill to be fair)

However
- Invuln Stomping is not okay in my opinion~ as it offers absolutely 0 counterplay. Long cooldown or not, its just too safe.

That’s my unbiased view on it all. (I play necromancer, I basically can’t do anything cool to stomp people, so take it for what it is. :P )

Stealth counters it.
Since invuln has a long cooldown, it is okay if it has a few counterplays.

I’m just going to have to disagree. I think it’s a poor mechanic. Its fine to disagree, I can’t really see myself changing my mind though. I’ve always felt it was a lame way to finish someone.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

I\
Stealth is , most broken of all, as characters who can’t see stomper can’t target him with their skills. And that wouldn’t be half as bad if in such situation they could at least cast those skills at spot of their choosing or around themselves if it’s aoe (yup talking ranger’s thunderclap). But no. 100% kill. Sure eles, thieves and mesmers can move out of stomping zone before it lands. But what about rest of professions? Though luck! And unlike others mentioned here, stealth is dirt cheap in terms of downtime, to a point even longbow rangers can use it without a single worry in the world.

So please a-net, take a look at this and curb this to a point where ensuring a successful stomp require some thought and successful struggle between defender and attacker, and not just one button press after “F”.

Okay, but also nerf signet of stone and bodyblocking pets.

Thanks.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

It’s no rocket science that when you’re downed you’re the guy who’s knocking on death’s door, and not the one stomping you, but still in 1v1 situations being downed should always mean a fighting chance. Small one, but a one non the less. ….".

funny that you talk about 1vs1 and having a small chance while downed , i think ranger is the profesion that i have see the most beat someone while in downstate

most of the time ranger was getting killed, then when the other person tries to stomp and has about 5-8k HP he gets rupted by the ranger+dmg from pet and ranger and while he tries a second stomp he suddenly is in downstate himself and we all know ranger downstate kittening op, once you are in downstate vs a ranger you lost, maybe a power nec could win but still..

so yeah , for starters lets fix the downstate of rangers

ps: most of the situations i saw where the downstate rangers still won was in 1vs1 servers, where obviously no one comes to +1 and stomp or rez

If it can’t be stopped, it should not work. Period.

Stealth or Quickness won’t protect against non-targeted CCs.

Stability and blind can be removed.

But invulnerability prevents anything. And so, the same way it will prevent captures, it should stop a finish if activated mid-finish and prevent starting one.

Teleporting away should also interrupt the finish, the same way you lose the Soul Orb in Spirit Watch when you use a teleport.

Maybe no ability to stomp while cloaked? Do it like you do fighting – one stealthed shot then fight revealed, or just leave the scene.

Cool idea.
A class that you can rekt with more than half of it’s hp w/o downed attack boost before it stomps you.
And the one that is the most useless in 1v1 downed state.
What’s more, all classes can make you recast stomp as well.

Maybe realize, that there are those who have stability, those who are invulnerable, those who have Aegis, and those who have stealth.
Each class has something to assure it’s stomp as long as they have enough hp.

ronpierce.2760:

My personal views are:
- Stability is okay
- Blind stomping is legit.
- Stealth stomping is fine, you can cc around a downed ally. HOWEVER, I do feel like initiating stomps/finishing stomps on a stealthed person should work, so long as you can find them in stealth just like other attacks. (Would probably require an updated thief downed skill to be fair)

However
- Invuln Stomping is not okay in my opinion~ as it offers absolutely 0 counterplay. Long cooldown or not, its just too safe.

That’s my unbiased view on it all. (I play necromancer, I basically can’t do anything cool to stomp people, so take it for what it is. :P )

Is there a mechanic in this game that you don’t think is OP? If you want to mash 1 and 2 to win, I’m sure there is an arcade in your nearest city, with a Streetfighter style game.

I’m pretty sure im sick of theives have 2 stomp avoids as well. Both a movement location, and a smokescreen, they can delay a stomp long enough for them always to get back up

Thief is supposed to not get hit using stealth or evade,a clear stomp is the most wanted scenario to get a free thief kill. Why would he have similar stomp style than others?? Does that make sense to anyone that thief shouldn’t stomp like that??

Drennon.7190:

ronpierce.2760:

My personal views are:
- Stability is okay
- Blind stomping is legit.
- Stealth stomping is fine, you can cc around a downed ally. HOWEVER, I do feel like initiating stomps/finishing stomps on a stealthed person should work, so long as you can find them in stealth just like other attacks. (Would probably require an updated thief downed skill to be fair)

However
- Invuln Stomping is not okay in my opinion~ as it offers absolutely 0 counterplay. Long cooldown or not, its just too safe.

That’s my unbiased view on it all. (I play necromancer, I basically can’t do anything cool to stomp people, so take it for what it is. :P )

Is there a mechanic in this game that you don’t think is OP? If you want to mash 1 and 2 to win, I’m sure there is an arcade in your nearest city, with a Streetfighter style game.

Excuse me? Did you even read what I said? I rarely ever say anything is OP. I said one thing is poor gaming because it has (next to) no real counter play. I prefer counter play to my immunity easy stomps. Sorry about that?

ronpierce.2760:

Drennon.7190:

ronpierce.2760:

My personal views are:
- Stability is okay
- Blind stomping is legit.
- Stealth stomping is fine, you can cc around a downed ally. HOWEVER, I do feel like initiating stomps/finishing stomps on a stealthed person should work, so long as you can find them in stealth just like other attacks. (Would probably require an updated thief downed skill to be fair)

However
- Invuln Stomping is not okay in my opinion~ as it offers absolutely 0 counterplay. Long cooldown or not, its just too safe.

That’s my unbiased view on it all. (I play necromancer, I basically can’t do anything cool to stomp people, so take it for what it is. :P )

Is there a mechanic in this game that you don’t think is OP? If you want to mash 1 and 2 to win, I’m sure there is an arcade in your nearest city, with a Streetfighter style game.

Excuse me? Did you even read what I said? I rarely ever say anything is OP. I said one thing is poor gaming because it has (next to) no real counter play. I prefer counter play to my immunity easy stomps. Sorry about that?

Stop saying there is no counter playing to Immunity stomps. There are counterplays.

runeblade.7514:

[…]Stop saying there is no counter playing to Immunity stomps. There are counterplays.

Like what? Predicting the enemy has an invincibility skill and stun them before they use it? A skill that will probably break stun?

Here’s a strategy that’s not a cheap curb stomp sucker punch, take your enemies into the downed state without going into the downed state yourself.

So people blowinf huge cooldowns in order to make sure you stay downed is Bad? The only class that can also truly prevent a stomp is eles. You’re also forgetting some other stomp mechanics IE portal stomps steal/infiltrators signet stomps, phase retreat+blink stomps and shadow step stomps.

Every clkittenes their downed state except maybe eles.

Downed state isnt necessarily meant to give you a fighting chance 1v1 more so to give ur team a chance to get to you and res you.

It’s true Elixir S and Mist Form are the most secure stomps. Stability can be stripped/corrupted, stealth stomping still leaves you vulnerably to cleaving/aoe, but Elixir S and Mist Form give you immunity to those. But even they can be countered by stealthing the downed body or teleporting away. So it’s not massively game breaking. I don’t know, in my opinion they do need a nerf, but it seems they don’t unbalance the game too much right now. Of course, I’m saying that because nearly every team has a thief so there’s always the option of stealthing a downed teammate, and d/d eles normally don’t carry mist form. If thieves were less common, taking away the only real counter to these stomping methods, maybe I’d be singing a different tune.

MithranArkanere.8957:

runeblade.7514:

[…]Stop saying there is no counter playing to Immunity stomps. There are counterplays.

Like what? Predicting the enemy has an invincibility skill and stun them before they use it? A skill that will probably break stun?

Stealthing downed ally to heal,put Timewrap to fast rez,Mercy Runes,revive traits,some down skills,revive skills not all optimal but they exist. An engi can simply put a Smoke Bomb,blast with Healing Turret,profit.

I just want mistform and elixir S to be on an even playing field.

For those of you who don’t know, you cannot initiate a res/stomp while in mistform, but can in elixir S. I’m not really sure why they did this.

Stealth and stability are ok. Immune stomp shouldn’t be possible.

xDudisx.5914:

Stealth and stability are ok. Immune stomp shouldn’t be possible.

Stealthing downed ally to heal,put Timewrap to fast rez,Mercy Runes,revive traits,some down skills,revive skills not all optimal but they exist. An engi can simply put a Smoke Bomb,blast with Healing Turret,profit.

Stomp is dumb period .

Only downstate I have a problem with is thief because they have a good chance at avoiding two stomp attempts.

Other than that, I’m satisfied with all the current forms of stomping and how profession stomp avoidance balances out.

Chaith.8256:

Here’s a strategy that’s not a cheap curb stomp sucker punch, take your enemies into the downed state without going into the downed state yourself.

This method is 100% effective at not getting “cheap curb stomped.”

If you’re in a 1v1 and someone has their 60 second cooldown left over to stomp you, you’ve probably made a large mistake, or it’s a matchup you probably should have opted out of to begin with. Every stomping method has counterplay in a teamfight situation. If the devs ever balance the game where downstate has a significant impact on the outcome out 1v1s I’ll be incredibly disappointed.

Aerveor.9617:

Chaith.8256:

Here’s a strategy that’s not a cheap curb stomp sucker punch, take your enemies into the downed state without going into the downed state yourself.

This method is 100% effective at not getting “cheap curb stomped.”

If you’re in a 1v1 and someone has their 60 second cooldown left over to stomp you, you’ve probably made a large mistake, or it’s a matchup you probably should have opted out of to begin with. Every stomping method has counterplay in a teamfight situation. If the devs ever balance the game where downstate has a significant impact on the outcome out 1v1s I’ll be incredibly disappointed.

Technically speaking, invuln stomps have the least counter play in team fights, and thats actually the issue. Who cares about 1v1. They’re guaranteed stomps on anything that isn’t a thief or ele for the most part (granted you just wait for the mist form and then it is if you’re smart…) The only real counter to it is an engineer with the ability to stealth the downed enemy, mass invis or a thief to stealth them. Otherwise its pretty much an easy stomp. No other stomp secure method even comes close. People complained about stability but hell it has more counter than this. And even more-so soon when you can actually eat through stability.

ronpierce.2760:

Aerveor.9617:

Chaith.8256:

Here’s a strategy that’s not a cheap curb stomp sucker punch, take your enemies into the downed state without going into the downed state yourself.

This method is 100% effective at not getting “cheap curb stomped.”

If you’re in a 1v1 and someone has their 60 second cooldown left over to stomp you, you’ve probably made a large mistake, or it’s a matchup you probably should have opted out of to begin with. Every stomping method has counterplay in a teamfight situation. If the devs ever balance the game where downstate has a significant impact on the outcome out 1v1s I’ll be incredibly disappointed.

Technically speaking, invuln stomps have the least counter play in team fights, and thats actually the issue. Who cares about 1v1. They’re guaranteed stomps on anything that isn’t a thief or ele for the most part (granted you just wait for the mist form and then it is if you’re smart…) The only real counter to it is an engineer with the ability to stealth the downed enemy, mass invis or a thief to stealth them. Otherwise its pretty much an easy stomp. No other stomp secure method even comes close. People complained about stability but hell it has more counter than this. And even more-so soon when you can actually eat through stability.

Elixir S, Mist Form, Obsidian Flesh, Distortion (Shatter), the abilities already come with enough opportunity costs to work themselves out of the meta already, my man.

If you don’t want something to be stomped, hard revive it, revive utility it, or stealth it. But there’s no sense in nerfing Mist Form or Focus Elementalists. Priorities, invuln stomps are not one of them.

Chaith.8256:

ronpierce.2760:

Aerveor.9617:

Chaith.8256:

Here’s a strategy that’s not a cheap curb stomp sucker punch, take your enemies into the downed state without going into the downed state yourself.

This method is 100% effective at not getting “cheap curb stomped.”

If you’re in a 1v1 and someone has their 60 second cooldown left over to stomp you, you’ve probably made a large mistake, or it’s a matchup you probably should have opted out of to begin with. Every stomping method has counterplay in a teamfight situation. If the devs ever balance the game where downstate has a significant impact on the outcome out 1v1s I’ll be incredibly disappointed.

Technically speaking, invuln stomps have the least counter play in team fights, and thats actually the issue. Who cares about 1v1. They’re guaranteed stomps on anything that isn’t a thief or ele for the most part (granted you just wait for the mist form and then it is if you’re smart…) The only real counter to it is an engineer with the ability to stealth the downed enemy, mass invis or a thief to stealth them. Otherwise its pretty much an easy stomp. No other stomp secure method even comes close. People complained about stability but hell it has more counter than this. And even more-so soon when you can actually eat through stability.

Elixir S, Mist Form, Obsidian Flesh, Distortion (Shatter), the abilities already come with enough opportunity costs to work themselves out of the meta already, my man.

If you don’t want something to be stomped, hard revive it, revive utility it, or stealth it. But there’s no sense in nerfing Mist Form or Focus Elementalists. Priorities, invuln stomps are not one of them.

Not saying it is a priority. I don’t find it ‘game breaking’, certainly. I just don’t agree with it. I’d prefer them to have lower cooldowns but not be “easy stomps” (outside of a few less common cases as stated). I wouldn’t make a thread about it, but I tend to agree if one is made. Though, I don’t agree with some of the other things discussed.

There are no “easy stomps” against team with experienced players.
L2p.

nicknamenick.2437:

Tao.5096:

There are no “easy stomps” against team with experienced players.
L2p.

invulnerability

Stealth.

Team utility of AoE stealth is huge, that’s why you have them on a large amount of teams. Not to mention the simple opportunity cost. Blowing a large CD in the form of invulnerability to secure a stomp is not an easy stomp. You lose an enormous defensive CD, which later on might cause YOU to get stomped, fail to res a team mate because of cleave, or force you off a node to prevent death, ceding the point to the other team.

ronpierce.2760:

My personal views are:
- Stability is okay
- Blind stomping is legit.
- Stealth stomping is fine, you can cc around a downed ally. HOWEVER, I do feel like initiating stomps/finishing stomps on a stealthed person should work, so long as you can find them in stealth just like other attacks. (Would probably require an updated thief downed skill to be fair)

However
- Invuln Stomping is not okay in my opinion~ as it offers absolutely 0 counterplay. Long cooldown or not, its just too safe.

That’s my unbiased view on it all. (I play necromancer, I basically can’t do anything cool to stomp people, so take it for what it is. :P )

I agree with your comment on invuln stomping. It doesn’t make sense from a play standpoint. If you can’t attack, or can’t be attacked, then stomping should not be allowed. Not having any counter doesn’t make for interesting play to play against, or watch, at all.

Mist form and about to stomp
Me on the ground
“Well I guess I’m about to get stomped….” rolls eyes
(super boring)

edgarallanpwn.8739:

I’m pretty sure im sick of theives have 2 stomp avoids as well. Both a movement location, and a smokescreen, they can delay a stomp long enough for them always to get back up

Errrrmmmmm, no. Not always. Hell, not even most the time, or usually.

Okay so any way to guarantee a stomp is considered cheap… So I’m going to just go through the several ways that classes can guarantee a stomp (and I mean every class except maybe necro.)

• Blind Stomping-Guards, thieves, (some necros and eles)
• Stab stomping- Warriors, eles, guards, necros w/ plague, rangers,
• Teleport stomping- This is used as a way to prevent interrupts. Thieves use shadow step/return stomping on classes that can interrupt.
• Body blocking- Mesmers with phase retreat then blink stomping. Rangers with pets.
• Portal stomping- Which is particularly funny when you get called out for hacking because of it.
• Invuln Stomping- Engis, mesmers, and eles are the only ones that can do it. Which isn’t really an issue anymore since most engis take slick shoes over elixir S, most eles take cleansing fire, and mesmers aren’t really taken anymore.

So you’re only real gripe being invuln stomping which isn’t really an issue anymore… Sooo yeah why does this thread exist?

I read “cheap curb stomp tactics” and now I’m dissapointed…

nicknamenick.2437:

Larynx.2453:

nicknamenick.2437:

Tao.5096:

There are no “easy stomps” against team with experienced players.
L2p.

invulnerability

Stealth.

Team utility of AoE stealth is huge, that’s why you have them on a large amount of teams. Not to mention the simple opportunity cost. Blowing a large CD in the form of invulnerability to secure a stomp is not an easy stomp. You lose an enormous defensive CD, which later on might cause YOU to get stomped, fail to res a team mate because of cleave, or force you off a node to prevent death, ceding the point to the other team.

Hmm good point! :-)

(but only from a team point of view!)

If its an 1v1 situation i still find this really lame to do..
But yeah yeah its not about 1vs1

So i Agree with you Larynx

Well, in 1v1 being downed is usually the end anyway, unless the other guy goes down at the same time or shortly afterwards, in which case he also probably wouldn’t be able to safestomp you.

Ranger stomping is almost worse then everything else, if the ranger has a brain:
1. They can stealth stomp
2. They can body block with pet.
3. They can stab stomp
4. they can can apply poison/cc/blind either directly or through pet

Why is this “cheap”

Every stomp including invuln stomps can be stopped – AoE stealth

1v1 does not matter – first person downed is dead thats it GG

Games been out for close to three years none of this crap is changing

/thread

MithranArkanere.8957:

runeblade.7514:

[…]Stop saying there is no counter playing to Immunity stomps. There are counterplays.

Like what? Predicting the enemy has an invincibility skill and stun them before they use it? A skill that will probably break stun?

Stealth whoever is going to be stomped?

There are 2 ways to counter stomps in teamfights:
- rupt the stomper
- res/banner/cloak the downed ally

Of course, as X class, you won’t be able to perform all of these options. Hence why the game has professions and not identical classes.

Saying, there is no counterplay against invuln. stomps seems to be a l2p issue. Maybe not from your part as the downed player, but from your team’s. It is what it is, nevertheless, a l2p issue.

You have to make an active call, depending on which scenario you are facing. And this is imo is a proper way making downstate matter. The active counterplay comes from your team rather than from you, who is down on the floor. And this is good the way it curretnly is imo.