(edited by Nova.7261)
custom games water down spvp
Custom arenas aren’t the problem you are addressing.
-snip-
There are so many bad players being made from the current system of spvp. You need to make them actually play the content or it will never get better.
So letting them play in custom matches where they dont hurt leaderboard is bad for them how?
Not sure I follow. I’d prefer for them to stay out of ranked if they were bad and didnt want to learn.
Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.
-snip-
There are so many bad players being made from the current system of spvp. You need to make them actually play the content or it will never get better.
So letting them play in custom matches where they dont hurt leaderboard is bad for them how?
Not sure I follow. I’d prefer for them to stay out of ranked if they were bad and didnt want to learn.
Maybe or maybe you end up with players focused on spvp while allowing those coming in just for rewards, a more constructive exploit to their gameplay.
Yes, sweeping those players under the rug and pushing them into custom games where we don’t have to deal with them seems like the best solution for us. But I don’t see it being the best solution for the spvp community as a whole.
I sort of agree with you. For example, most sports in most clubs can only achieve to get enough professional teams/players if they feed the interest and motivation of kids/teens enough to stay and to even search for a future in playing it.
But I also agree with keeping the “not-interested-in-getting-better” pvp players outside of the leaderboards.
The main problem you see here is the PVP system itself.
If we had different “leagues”, players were scattered by their skills.
If the next league having a greater reward that you couldn’t have before, the players would get motivated and try to be better while leaving the “not-interested-in-getting-better” players in the lowest league(s).
If we had “Great PVP-only Rewards”, other players might find a motivation in learning more about sPVP and the community will grow considerably, helping the game growing for esports too.
But there’s nothing like that and that is why most players don’t stay for long in GW2, the pvp community doesn’t grow and the competitive scene of gw2 is so fragile and small.
The current leaderboard is clearly a mechanic for small-term results: motivating players to play the most games they can each day. But it hurts much more the PVP side of gw2 in a mid/long-term.
IMO even if the leaderboard was balanced, it would had too small of an impact to keep players motivated and to grow the community.
(edited by Aztex.4895)
sPvP is not a dungeon run. Its suppose to be heart pumping, mind boggling, over the top combat.
Unfortunately, when I walk into a 10v10 after losing a few matches to get my dailies and because I’m out of time to play, I want to shoot myself. I see this coordinated effort of reds and blue switching places to get their 10point neutralization and conversion.
It reminds me of how players might operate in a dungeon. Not one of the players actually intends to fight one another and rather your likely to get called a troll or ganked if you start something like that.
Simply said, I don’t want to see dungeon player mentality anywhere near sPvP. There is a huge difference between the two and allowing them to mix hurts the quality of the game.
Players need to come to HOTM looking for sPvP, not for another dungeon. Then we can start building a really awesome community with everyone on the same page.
Note:
I just had an unranked match on the ice temple map. It was an interesting match because I managed to fend off the players by using the pillars near the middle point to mess with line of sight. For most of the match I fought under 10% health and was very difficult to kill. It was a tactic you could never learn in a pve environment.
1. I forced them to choose to either stay on the point or come after me. The decision delayed their actions and with passive health regen I got stronger.
2. Pve players get stuck doing one tactic far to easily so by changing your attack vector they can’t predict your movements. That is the advantage of being a player and not a npc. As a result, when i turned around and hit them with my 2% health left they were dumbfounded and all of my major skills hit.
It just goes to show me that you can’t mix sPvP and PvE. The players even looked like npcs as they chased after me like mesmer clones…
There’s a big difference between the system I talked earlier and a dungeon.
Dungeons give rewards with replayability, they can be easily done by any player and have no competition between players.
The system I talked ties both motivation and reward with skills and players competing for a place in a better league. It’s a system used in many other esports.
This is the only way of a game trully becoming an esport, because there’s no other way to attract a massive ammount of players into a competitive PVP without showing the right rewards for players who are giving their best to become a better player in a PVP environment. Of course, this only works if they can also get demoted when they stop playing PVP or when there’s the chance to lose their place to more skilled players.
Basically, it goes like this:
- lvl 1 reward for making PVP (daily) / 4th league -> Bring players to try PVP
- lvl 2 reward for making into the 3rd League -> Motivate players to spend more time in PVP and get their interest.
- lvl 3 reward for making into the 2nd League -> Motivate players to get better and to consolidate their interest in PVP.
- lvl 4 reward for making into the 1st League -> Motivate players to become a “good” player and turning their main focus into becoming one of the “best” in PVP; usually already member of a team or looking for one.
- lvl 5 reward for making into the S League -> Keep players motivated in staying the best and reminding them that lower leagues also have lower rewards, lower skill players, less organized teams, etc.
This is a necessary thing!!!!
Present consumer behaviour indicates that most of us only do things for the right rewards, because without them we don’t even feel motivation to keep doing it for long. That’s why ESL gives money to the teams that have good results in their tournies and also why WTS has the prizes it has.
No, it may be so for competitive e-sports but gw2 doesn’t have the player base to start splitting up players into tiers. Also, players get better by losing to strong opponents. A great player will mimic/ counter their opponent till they can surpass them and in turn their opponent has to do it to them. By making the best play against the best, away from the worst, new players and those that need experience will be at a loss to acquire it.
Personally I think daily’s should be coming from the hotm lobby. Go kill one of the training dummies, dodge x times, use a catapult/ cannon to take out x number of targets. The daily guides them to the door of sPvP but its not forcing them in. Those coming into the game to play because they want to. Those are the ones we want and are going to stay.
Custom arena’s should have different rewards and methods to keep them out of conflict with ranked and unranked arena’s. Using the arena with guild upgrades to acquire rewards as desired and directed by the guild, moving away from the track system.
Furthermore, I don’t know why setting up a custom arena is 200 gold while maintaining it is free. I can get 1 day arena extensions that I can use on other player’s arenas and my own, but have never gotten the starter kit for it. Maybe if those tokens could reactivate the arena but once that arena goes down, it’s another 200 gold to get it back. 20-50 gold would seem more reasonable.
I don’t think custom arenas should even exist. If you want to practice something without hurting your leaderboard status then do unranked.
No, it may be so for competitive e-sports but gw2 doesn’t have the player base to start splitting up players into tiers. Also, players get better by losing to strong opponents. A great player will mimic/ counter their opponent till they can surpass them and in turn their opponent has to do it to them. By making the best play against the best, away from the worst, new players and those that need experience will be at a loss to acquire it.
First of all, there are at least a 1000 players in each region in the current leaderboards who clearly look focused in becoming better in sPVP. That’s not small at all.
And it’s true they need to fight against stronger oponnents, but if the skill gap is too big it will achieve the contrary. This is basic knowledge to sports formation and coaching. That’s why divisions are good. They keep a healthy competition between teams with a close skill gap but still big enough to make them get better and have the chance to win against stronger oponents. By doing so, they go to the next league and face even more stronger oponnents, but are extremelly motivated even if they lose too much in the beguinning.
(edited by Aztex.4895)
Daily should come from ranked and unranked only and if you can’t win, make and team and work with people to accomplish your goals.
Hell, no!!!
The class dailies hurts sPvP right now. Limiting them to unranked/ranked would hurt sPvP even more. Even more players who know nothing about a class and only want to get carried to “earn” there dailies would remove the last bit of skill from unranked/ranked and would turn it in to pure RNG.
As it is, I can get more rewards faster by doing custom matches and using them with others that are like minded for maximum returns. This results in pvp players that could be honing their skills, taking shortcuts and ultimately watering down the pool of good players we might find in a match.
That’s just not true. The reward track progression per match is lesser than what you gain in unranked/ranked, the rank points reward are more or less the third of what you gain in unranked/ranked, your gains are capped daily and you gain less if the match is over too fast. As it stands, the best strategies to get maximum rewards is just playing the game normally in unranked/ranked.
Why are these people in the rank farm servers then? Frankly, it puzzles me. Some are probably just ignorant of the true numbers just like yourself, but I think most can’t imagine playing something engaging in a MMO and would rather grind their way to rank 80 than doing it more efficiently by just playing.
As it is, I can get more rewards faster by doing custom matches and using them with others that are like minded for maximum returns. This results in pvp players that could be honing their skills, taking shortcuts and ultimately watering down the pool of good players we might find in a match.
That’s just not true. The reward track progression per match is lesser than what you gain in unranked/ranked, the rank points reward are more or less the third of what you gain in unranked/ranked, your gains are capped daily and you gain less if the match is over too fast. As it stands, the best strategies to get maximum rewards is just playing the game normally in unranked/ranked.
Why are these people in the rank farm servers then? Frankly, it puzzles me. Some are probably just ignorant of the true numbers just like yourself, but I think most can’t imagine playing something engaging in a MMO and would rather grind their way to rank 80 than doing it more efficiently by just playing.
Check your numbers, what you say is incorrect. You can get equal and faster earnings in custom matches let alone dailies and things like conqueror. Aim for the 500 point cap and it becomes possible since you don’t usually get near the point cap on other normal matches.
It just becomes another lobby where people chit-chat while moving on and off points.
I don’t really know what was the point of first post as the discussion seems to be completely different…
but I agree that SPvP need some motivation to get better… back when we were asking for new reward system, I think everyone meant skill based reward system, probably everyone except for ANet, because what we got is just another farm without motivation to get better… what we need is better rewards on higher level of SPvP, it’s not fair that a player competing against best players gets the same reward as a noob who just entered SPvP for the first time and somehow managed to win a match against other noobs… why should he get better? he can get the same reward as everyone else with his skill, the only thing which matters right now is win ratio and win ratio depends mainly on matchmaking, not player skill…
what we need is better rewards on higher level of SPvP
It’s called Tournaments, end of discussion.
[AwM] of Jade Quarry.
what we need is better rewards on higher level of SPvP
It’s called Tournaments, end of discussion.
I don’t see any connection between tournaments and high level play…
if you are lucky enough, you can win few rounds when you meet someone as bad as you, the same applies for 2 best teams meeting in first round, does it mean the losing team is bad? tournaments just don’t work for a everyday play and we already had them so we know it…
on the other hand, you can’t really manipulate your overall rating in leaderboards in a long term if the matchmaking is working properly…
so I would definitely like to see somethings like leagues or at least some coefficient for reward based on MMR or leaderboard ranking (e.g. top 1000, top 90%, top 80% etc)
If you need motivation to get better then you’re not competitive to begin with.
If you need motivation to get better then you’re not competitive to begin with.
Ideal thoughts like this are not what reality shows. The most competitive persons in all areas of expertise, including sports, have the “highest rewards”. If football (soccer in NA terms) didn’t have the possibility for players to live from it (and to get rich), it wouldn’t be the biggest sport in the world. Even in gw2, if ESL tournies and WTS didn’t give higher rewards than the normal PvP ingame, than there would be no teams to play and there would be no esports for this game.
Times have changed a lot and nowadays the belief of some people doesn’t mean it works in reality. And if that reality “needs” a bigger and bigger ammount of people to become successfull, than it also means it needs to motivate players to try it ans become competitiva for a reason. And the main reason for something to become massive is by giving the right rewards for the rights efforts.