Guild Wars 2

I understand the following situation was WvW, but I finally found a 1on1 situation with a D/D Elementalist, and with Hammer/GS in Knight armor/jewelry and Berserker weapons, I couldn’t pull enough damage to overcome his natural ability to heal.

Granted, I wasn’t dying either, but every ability he landed over the course of multiple minutes was just one little step closer to him winning. I specifically remember landing multiple combos on him, and I was no steps closer to winning than at the start of the fight.

I’m not even sure what the answer would be after that encounter. Perhaps I was landing combos only when he had protection up. I’m not sure what sort of boon uptimes the build can achieve per boon, so that’s a possibility. I guess my potential issue boils down to:

How much of the window of opportunity I’d have to actually do significant damage would be based solely on his ability to weave boons via attunement switching/whatever other mechanics factor in?

Part of my enjoyment of the game stems from situations where I draw out windows of opportunity and capitalize on them. If the windows are based almost entirely on the opponent’s ability to properly play a particular class/spec, that just feels like a huge bummer.

D/D Eles are definitely one of the strongest close range melee in the game at the moment. Their burst isn’t as high as other melee types, but the AOE pressure and sustain they can bring is pretty crazy.

I think the deadliest thing about them is simply how much they punish you being in their range. When I ran my D/D ele after launch(when you FoTM losers though ele was terrible, its always been a L2P issue), there wasn’t a single class I couldn’t bring down with my ele, especially if you run multiple cantrips. 90% percent uptime on protection, fury, and swiftness in combination with condi removal and crazy self regen I would often kill sub-optimal players with near full hp. Passive protections like shocking and frost aura are insanely punishing against anyone attacking an ele during that time. Seriously, shocking is borderline OP.

I ended up liking S/D more because D/D ends up feeling way too restrictive in the end. I don’t really agree with the “high skill cap”, but you end up being too reliant on skill rotations that it almost feels on rails. The only real agency I ever felt was whether or not I should use an off-hand cooldown or not given the long time for recharge. Its a fun class though.

condiments.8043:

D/D Eles are definitely one of the strongest close range melee in the game at the moment. Their burst isn’t as high as other melee types, but the AOE pressure and sustain they can bring is pretty crazy.

I think the deadliest thing about them is simply how much they punish you being in their range. When I ran my D/D ele after launch(when you FoTM losers though ele was terrible, its always been a L2P issue), there wasn’t a single class I couldn’t bring down with my ele, especially if you run multiple cantrips. 90% percent uptime on protection, fury, and swiftness in combination with condi removal and crazy self regen I would often kill sub-optimal players with near full hp. Passive protections like shocking and frost aura are insanely punishing against anyone attacking an ele during that time. Seriously, shocking is borderline OP.

I ended up liking S/D more because D/D ends up feeling way too restrictive in the end. I don’t really agree with the “high skill cap”, but you end up being too reliant on skill rotations that it almost feels on rails. The only real agency I ever felt was whether or not I should use an off-hand cooldown or not given the long time for recharge. Its a fun class though.

It seems you don’t know much more than FOTM eles for saying shocking aura works against anybody attacking you, for instance the aura doesn’t work if you attack ele from range, a smart opponent would switch to range..but oh well
Furthermore as long as you play hot join and win against random pugs in a zerg, there is really nothing to comment about..try your rotation against a r40+ during paid tournaments and then come back to me

Arheundel.6451:

It seems you don’t know much more than FOTM eles for saying shocking aura works against anybody attacking you, for instance the aura doesn’t work if you attack ele from range, a smart opponent would switch to range..but oh well
Furthermore as long as you play hot join and win against random pugs in a zerg, there is really nothing to comment about..try your rotation against a r40+ during paid tournaments and then come back to me

Haha, did I touch a nerve FOTM D/D ele? Using D/D and thinking you’re pro? I’m not going out of my way to put an anecdote as to the skill specifications on shocking aura when anyone who knows what the skill does knows how powerful it is especially in combination with powerful auras.

You were also pretty swift with your ad hominem against me even when I was debating the merits of the class. So lets please stop with pedantic “HUR, LAND DA COMBO ON DA PRO PLAYER AND DEN COME BAC TO ME”

D/D ele is a fun and difficult class to play, I’m not arguing that. I respect players like Qt Vain, who bring the build/weapon far beyond my capabilities. But you guys are kidding yourselves if don’t think D/D eles are one of the strongest builds in the game at the moment right up there with GC thieves(not quite Guardian and mesmer powerful though).

Do they need to be nerfed? I don’t think so, maybe minor tweaks at most. Other specs should be brought up to par with the capabilities of this build rather than outright nerfing a fun, viable spec to play. But pretty much all weaponsets for ele are viable, they just need the right team/build to support them.

condiments.8043:

Arheundel.6451:

It seems you don’t know much more than FOTM eles for saying shocking aura works against anybody attacking you, for instance the aura doesn’t work if you attack ele from range, a smart opponent would switch to range..but oh well
Furthermore as long as you play hot join and win against random pugs in a zerg, there is really nothing to comment about..try your rotation against a r40+ during paid tournaments and then come back to me

Haha, did I touch a nerve FOTM D/D ele? Using D/D and thinking you’re pro? I’m not going out of my way to put an anecdote as to the skill specifications on shocking aura when anyone who knows what the skill does knows how powerful it is especially in combination with powerful auras.

You were also pretty swift with your ad hominem against me even when I was debating the merits of the class. So lets please stop with pedantic “HUR, LAND DA COMBO ON DA PRO PLAYER AND DEN COME BAC TO ME”

D/D ele is a fun and difficult class to play, I’m not arguing that. I respect players like Qt Vain, who bring the build/weapon far beyond my capabilities. But you guys are kidding yourselves if don’t think D/D eles are one of the strongest builds in the game at the moment right up there with GC thieves(not quite Guardian and mesmer powerful though).

Do they need to be nerfed? I don’t think so, maybe minor tweaks at most. Other specs should be brought up to par with the capabilities of this build rather than outright nerfing a fun, viable spec to play. But pretty much all weaponsets for ele are viable, they just need the right team/build to support them.

On the contrary of you I haven’t got any ego problems, if somebody point me in the right direction I’d rather listen instead than trying to appear clever by attempting a come back..which in your case fail miserably.

I don’t care of what people think of me as fotm ele or not, but I can say this since Anet created the GW franchise I’ve been maining an ele, that’s to say I played this profession since GW1 but I won’t stay here listing all my Pvp accomplishments..because for what it matters I don’t care of other’s opinion.

Moving to GW2, as I’ve stated unless you know the weaknesses of a build/skill you shouldn’t really talk about powerful or not, like most skills in this game shocking aura is not that invincibility aura that many think it is, if timed right it can save you but again that it’s to be expected from experienced players and that means that d/d build perform well only in the hands of good players, if you change the weapon set..the end result would still be the same, baddies lose and pro ele win.

In general people who lose to specific build and playstyles, simply need to improve their own gameplay rather than blindy complain.

The main reason why the ele sub-forum is not littered by “nerf XX profession” crap is because in general ele players have learnt the hard way how to adapt, players from other professions should realize that by now the button smashing strategy that was effective during the first 2 months…it’s no longer viable

Arheundel.6451:

On the contrary of you I haven’t got any ego problems, if somebody point me in the right direction I’d rather listen instead than trying to appear clever by attempting a come back..which in your case fail miserably.

The main reason why the ele sub-forum is not littered by “nerf XX profession” crap is because in general ele players have learnt the hard way how to adapt, players from other professions should realize that by now the button smashing strategy that was effective during the first 2 months…it’s no longer viable

Clearly I have ego problems because I responded in kind to someone who attacked my credibility directly rather than discussing the merits of the class. Your quickness to respond in kind without decency especially in regards to the FOTM part shows you clearly had a problem with I said, which certainly wasn’t addressed to you personally even if you perceived it so.

And you haven’t been around long if you think the ele forum wasn’t full of derision and complaints for the past couple of months. The screams over the EA nerf(which was OP in its original state)were everywhere with people claiming it was the classes “only viable build” despite availability of D/D, and S/D. The ele trait lines are still very unintuitive which is probably why people got frustrated right away at the class, but doesn’t change the fact the class was always viable from day 1. That sub-forum alone probably turned off many hopefuls wishing to play the class.

condiments.8043:

Arheundel.6451:

On the contrary of you I haven’t got any ego problems, if somebody point me in the right direction I’d rather listen instead than trying to appear clever by attempting a come back..which in your case fail miserably.

The main reason why the ele sub-forum is not littered by “nerf XX profession” crap is because in general ele players have learnt the hard way how to adapt, players from other professions should realize that by now the button smashing strategy that was effective during the first 2 months…it’s no longer viable

And you haven’t been around long if you think the ele forum wasn’t full of derision and complaints for the past couple of months. The screams over the EA nerf(which was OP in its original state)were everywhere with people claiming it was the classes “only viable build” despite availability of D/D, and S/D. The ele trait lines are still very unintuitive which is probably why people got frustrated right away at the class, but doesn’t change the fact the class was always viable from day 1. That sub-forum alone probably turned off many hopefuls wishing to play the class.

Oh I have beel around long enough to know that ele has not received any substantial buff in the last 3 months and by substantial I mean complete overhaul of skills, but pls go and list any change that may increased by tenfold the efficiency of th ele I dare you to find any “mega” buff, if anything this profession along with the necro has received the most nerfs since BWE1, the profession is more or less exactly as it was in September..“the easy to kill profession”, but those complaining in frustation have mastered the profession now.

Do you know what it was the general comment always given to ele players?
It was around these line :" Ele is fine, just learn to play noob!", the funny thing is now those who were mocking ele players at start are asking for nerfs as apparently ele is OP, whining for the sake of whining is noobish, whining for the sake of self-improvment is good.

If you go and read the threads/post of people asking for nerfs in general on any profession, it seems as they’re complete masters of this game hence any defeat is only due to OP or broken skills, this means that as long as they beat you…it’s you who need to l2p but if you beat them…it’s because your profession is OP, sure sometimes there is the legitimate complaint but for most cases it’s just an ego problem

The influx of d/d Elementalists will subside once Staff gets fixed. Then the qq will follow suit.

When you have 3 D/D all smacking one person with updraft, and killing them before they have a chance to do anything, it makes people upset, and rightly so. One well played d/d alone is exceptional, but multiple can be downright maddening.

Of course I am only talking about a hotjoin environment, not a tournament setting.

Arheundel.6451:

If you go and read the threads/post of people asking for nerfs in general on any profession, it seems as they’re complete masters of this game hence any defeat is only due to OP or broken skills, this means that as long as they beat you…it’s you who need to l2p but if you beat them…it’s because your profession is OP, sure sometimes there is the legitimate complaint but for most cases it’s just an ego problem

You owe all necromancers an apology.

shields, short cooldown, stun, knockback.. hard to win against this ele, even 4 vs 1 ele (all lvl 80). hope ANET will take a look on this build. ty

Hammerheart.1426:

The influx of d/d Elementalists will subside once Staff gets fixed. Then the qq will follow suit.

When you have 3 D/D all smacking one person with updraft, and killing them before they have a chance to do anything, it makes people upset, and rightly so. One well played d/d alone is exceptional, but multiple can be downright maddening.

Of course I am only talking about a hotjoin environment, not a tournament setting.

When you have 3 of any profession can be maddening:
3 hammer warriors chaining kd
3 necros chaining fear/bleed/chill
3 engineer chainink knockbacks
3 thieves spamming HS
3 mesmer using shatter
etc etc…so let’s nerf all the professions until…wait there will be never an end, as long as as we talk about MMO than we’ll be dealing with nerf cry ..until the servers shut down, baddies will always complain..always, Anet know this like any other developer, what the official forum has become, was already predicted.
In the MMO history, official forums are always meant to be a collection of whining threads ….there is simply no end to nerf cry, you can’t force baddies to get better, they feel entitled to have their way always

I completly agree with Arheundel on all account!!!

Khronos.7283:

i have an engineer and i am having a blast with it, i never lost one vs one this obvious since i faced this dagger elemental. i won so many duels but they were always close and fun since i faced this dagger elemental fellow; i have all kinds of survival options and a lot of damage with bomb kit and i am better when i face melees because of bomb kit( i even managed to kill multiple opponents when i am alone many times) but this guy destroyed me in like seconds, many of my abilities were on cooldown but i think they are(dagger elementals) a little bit over the top or maybe i am wrong what do i know?:)) you faced any good?

For what it’s worth, aside from Thieves that hack stealth or Mesmers that were using the multi-hit glitch, some of these Ele’s are the only ones I have stood NO chance against 1v1. I think I’m doing well against them, and then suddenly all their health is back, and at the same time, they are putting out serious damage against me. The main problem is that, I can go the distance against them, but where as I, as an Engineer, get to heal ever so often and only a portion of my health, they are healing nearly to full every 30 seconds or so… I’m not sure how Ele works that well so I won’t speculate, but since I’ve been past rank 30, this is the only profession that hasn’t “hacked” something and still made me throw my hands in the air. Not sure how to out-damage a class that has that much damage output (I typically run 2.7k armor and better) and even when I wittle them down, they can heal to full again. Maybe Ele is the natural Engi counter? Since typically all other classes except maybe Mesmers can be a good kill 1v1 for us.

On a seperate note, since I don’t know… are D/D Ele’s supposed to be able to heal at this level? Is there a certain build that grants them both good sustained damage + good self heals?

aydenunited.5729:

On a seperate note, since I don’t know… are D/D Ele’s supposed to be able to heal at this level? Is there a certain build that grants them both good sustained damage + good self heals?

There are builds that let them do quite a bit of healing, but the damage on those builds is fairly lackluster. Although they can keep a good, sustained stream of damage going, they can’t burst at all.

These builds are usually 0/10/0/30/30, clerics amulet with a trait that makes their auras give them swiftness and fury for a duration in combination with boon duration runes and the 25pt water trait that gives +5% damage for each boon on the elementalist.

So the ways they get boons are as follows: A very few skills give boons outright. Switching attunements with the Elemental Attunement trait (every ele has this; every single one) gives a boon based upon which attunement you switch to as well as 2 seconds of fury. The auras give swiftness and fury. If the elementalist really goes at it, they can keep 5 boon on themselves most of the time. Swiftness and Fury are easily made permanent. The Renewing Stamina and Soothing Disruption traits can basically give permanent vigor as well. Regeneration is up more often than not, and might can be had from finishing combos.

For healing, this comes from a mix of things including specialization towards healing power and toughness with just a bit of vitality (I like going clerics amulet with knight’s jewel). First of all, the Elemental Attunement trait gives the player regeneration when switching into water attunement. Then on top of that, the 5pt water trait gives a second regeration buff (not actually regen, so it stacks) that is applied whenever the player is in water attunement; the duration of it is extended by the 15pt arcana trait. Further, the 15pt water trait makes switching into water attunement an AoE heal equivalent to the dagger #5 skill. A further trait can cause it to cleanse a single condition. Finally, the Evasive Arcana trait (grandmaster major arcana) fires off this same heal when the elementalist dodges in water attunement (10-second cooldown).

So here’s what happens when an elementalist is getting a little low on health:
1. They switch into water attunement. This will heal them for around 2400HP and give them the two regeneration buffs (heal for about 400/s combined)
2. They will dodge, healing them for another 2400HP.
3. If needed, they can use their #5, which would be another 2400HP (has a 45-second cd).
4. Frost Breath can heal for another 1000 or so while dealing damage.
5. They’ll probably pop off Frost Aura and Frozen Burst while they’re there.
6. They’ll promptly switch out of the attunement so as to start the 9-second cd to switch back in. Not too much is gained from staying in water attunement for extended periods.

They can do this once every 9 seconds or so, and that’s before they even dip in to their #6 (some prefer Ether Renewal for the extreme condition removal, others prefer the healing signet for a constant stream of healing without needing to activate it).

So yes, D/D eles can heal quite a bit if built correctly. They can also partially negate the loss in damage from speccing for survival by keeping a lot of boons on themselves at all times. It’s not fool-proof, though. It requires a modicum of player skill in order to make actually effective. Countering it requires keeping track of their cooldowns, trying to trick them into using their heals when it’s not really necessary and then smacking them with some CC and going to town.

MrQuizzles.6823:

aydenunited.5729:

On a seperate note, since I don’t know… are D/D Ele’s supposed to be able to heal at this level? Is there a certain build that grants them both good sustained damage + good self heals?

There are builds that let them do quite a bit of healing, but the damage on those builds is fairly lackluster. Although they can keep a good, sustained stream of damage going, they can’t burst at all.

These builds are usually 0/10/0/30/30, clerics amulet with a trait that makes their auras give them swiftness and fury for a duration in combination with boon duration runes and the 25pt water trait that gives +5% damage for each boon on the elementalist.

So the ways they get boons are as follows: A very few skills give boons outright. Switching attunements with the Elemental Attunement trait (every ele has this; every single one) gives a boon based upon which attunement you switch to as well as 2 seconds of fury. The auras give swiftness and fury. If the elementalist really goes at it, they can keep 5 boon on themselves most of the time. Swiftness and Fury are easily made permanent. The Renewing Stamina and Soothing Disruption traits can basically give permanent vigor as well. Regeneration is up more often than not, and might can be had from finishing combos.

For healing, this comes from a mix of things including specialization towards healing power and toughness with just a bit of vitality (I like going clerics amulet with knight’s jewel). First of all, the Elemental Attunement trait gives the player regeneration when switching into water attunement. Then on top of that, the 5pt water trait gives a second regeration buff (not actually regen, so it stacks) that is applied whenever the player is in water attunement; the duration of it is extended by the 15pt arcana trait. Further, the 15pt water trait makes switching into water attunement an AoE heal equivalent to the dagger #5 skill. A further trait can cause it to cleanse a single condition. Finally, the Evasive Arcana trait (grandmaster major arcana) fires off this same heal when the elementalist dodges in water attunement (10-second cooldown).

So here’s what happens when an elementalist is getting a little low on health:
1. They switch into water attunement. This will heal them for around 2400HP and give them the two regeneration buffs (heal for about 400/s combined)
2. They will dodge, healing them for another 2400HP.
3. If needed, they can use their #5, which would be another 2400HP (has a 45-second cd).
4. Frost Breath can heal for another 1000 or so while dealing damage.
5. They’ll probably pop off Frost Aura and Frozen Burst while they’re there.
6. They’ll promptly switch out of the attunement so as to start the 9-second cd to switch back in. Not too much is gained from staying in water attunement for extended periods.

They can do this once every 9 seconds or so, and that’s before they even dip in to their #6 (some prefer Ether Renewal for the extreme condition removal, others prefer the healing signet for a constant stream of healing without needing to activate it).

So yes, D/D eles can heal quite a bit if built correctly. They can also partially negate the loss in damage from speccing for survival by keeping a lot of boons on themselves at all times. It’s not fool-proof, though. It requires a modicum of player skill in order to make actually effective. Countering it requires keeping track of their cooldowns, trying to trick them into using their heals when it’s not really necessary and then smacking them with some CC and going to town.

thanks for the great info on eles:)