Guild Wars 2

I am willing to bet an arm and a leg that after the patch anet will ruin backstab (I have zero trust in their ability to balance after watching how they operate since beta) Sword/Dagger thief daze spam will be the new trend to hate on. People will stand there and make CnD easy to land then whine on forums that they couldn’t get out of daze thus nerf…again.

Stop putting ideas in people heads.

Except that daze can be countered much much easier, for obvious reasons. I’m sure people will still complain though, you are right about that.

As long as stun locking doesn’t kill people in less than 2 seconds, it should be fine. It’s the whole speed of the encounter that I can’t stand. Someone else said it in another thread before: battles should be an intricate dance where the one with the most skill comes out on top. It shouldn’t be left to a burst damage spec where if your stun breaker is on cool down, you’re screwed.

Those who say :"Don’t give a kitten about daze ", have never fought against a dazelock thief, which are very rare but way more deadly than the normal backstab thiefs.

The dazelock build will soon become the next target for “nerf cries” and for good reason, those who claim that this build is easily counterable will be surprised from how hard (if not impossible) is to actually counter them.

Have you got present the 3-daze chain from mesmers?, This one is 100 times worst…and again the first strike come from stealth so….

In the end is not the fault of thieves players…it’s Anet fault, they really should have never used the term “e-sport”, after designing thief and guardian, it’s like making a soccer game and placing a team whose players got 100% in all stats

[Edit]

At least with backstab you have the opportunity to pop immunities or whatever and attempt to mitigate the damage. When you’re perma dazed, you’re just kinda running around doing jack kitten and praying you don’t get owned because you’re 100% locked out of all abilities – repeatedly and with no diminishing returns.

I’m wondering how this dazelock attack sequence looks, could someone explain? I just tried to chain stealth/daze autoattack a golem and it was not possible due to immunity to stealth as long as the golem is dazed.

100 times worse? Mesmer is worse than Thief because they get protection and Thief doesn’t have protection.

hum… never thought about that xD

I do not play glass canon and this my be enjoyable. my gear will help too.
Tomorrow after work ill give it a go. now im off to bed xD

Xolo.3580:

I’m wondering how this dazelock attack sequence looks, could someone explain? I just tried to chain stealth/daze autoattack a golem and it was not possible due to immunity to stealth as long as the golem is dazed.

I believe it involves 6x mesmer runes and paralyzation sigils.

Are dazes classed as stuns?

Dunno how they’re classified but I do know that effects which increase stun duration also increase daze duration – or at least those sigils do.

Shhhhhh dont tell them!

Actually a major drawback to S/D is that flanking strike has horrible tracking and will rarely actually hit the target unless they’re immobilized. This leaves the weaponset with no “Initiative dump” for bursting so your highest source of damage will be your auto attacks. The control is very strong esp with a burst class assisting you to take the target down, but the damage is much much much lower than D/D even outside of backstab because you dont have Heartseeker.

Noctred.6732:

Dunno how they’re classified but I do know that effects which increase stun duration also increase daze duration – or at least those sigils do.

Interesting, I did not know that. Testing is in order

….Just a simple reminder….

What get abused….get nerfed

Xolo.3580:

I’m wondering how this dazelock attack sequence looks, could someone explain? I just tried to chain stealth/daze autoattack a golem and it was not possible due to immunity to stealth as long as the golem is dazed.

Cloak and dagger > tactical strike, and repeat with some auto’s thrown in there. Unless you have something like stability, or a way of sorta resetting the fight it’s difficult to deal with because the thief just keeps interrupting whatever the other person tries to do.

Honestly, some people will see thieves as a whole as a bit annoying, since they are given abilities that give too much for what they are worth.

Dagger thieves have extreme high damage gap closers, evasion bleeds, and a good damaging cloak which they can activate multiple times in a battle. Sword thieves get a cripple on their auto attacks, immobilize/stunbreak/condition removal/teleport on 2, a stunlock attack on 3. Pistol thieves are granted full bleed on any side (Compare to shortbow rangers) and three to four consecutive dazes that are very fast. Shortbow thieves get three to four consecutive evades while crippleing a target (Compare to shortbow rangers) and a medium ranged teleport.

For utilities, they have Shadow Refuge which grants them very long stealth, a bit of healing, and teamstealth for a 60 second cooldown (In other words, once-twice per battle or once every one or two skirmishes.), a stealth while casting a stomp, and permanent 25% in movement speed. Their elites either summon pets or freeze you for a split second (Which with fast DD damage makes it near-unmitigated unless you catch your health meter going down in the blink of an eye.)

When downed, thieves throw a bouncing dagger that cripples enemies. They can teleport away from being downed which, with the dagger makes you have to dodge roll to get to them in time or else they will vanish wasting another downed attempt.

Hell, when they dodge, they lay down an aoe field that cripples and bleeds and their shadowstep can deal damage, fears for longer then necros, spins stronger then a warrior, and gives more buffs than a mesmer.

They will be considered unfair in the eyes of quite a lot. I believe the main problem would be how initiative is covered however. A more balanced option which doesn’t make it seem like all thieves spam a single button would be more pleasing to the eye. Perhaps a combo system for a few skills that enhance other’s effects?

I’m a dazelock thief , we cant lock them 100% although we can take a huge amont of their health before reacting , its just backstab build just a bit slower , if u make the math both build do the same one over a bit over time one pretty fast paced , but like other said backstab build will look easy against dazelock , u’re pretty much useless u can just move arround while dazed hoping u wont get die ^^

Depends on how they will balance Thief´s bacstab. If they only decrease the damage – then of course it will probably create new metagame.

To be honest at this point Im expecting more caltrops thieves or more Unload spamers.

Anywy if they fix the STEAL so it can´t be casted at same time with CaD – then Bacstab is still viable option while giving others good chances to defend and react.

I would prefer the second option to be honest and therefore making Thief still class that is worth to play.

That’s why Stealth should be nerfed.

A 5 sec. long Revealed and the Backstab nerf will solve most of the Thief’s OPness.

Edelweiss.9815:

That’s why Stealth should be nerfed.

A 5 sec. long Revealed and the Backstab nerf will solve most of the Thief’s OPness.

This would hurt P/D condition builds quite a lot. Just sayin’

Atleast for necros like me I can happily say I can death shroud and if I remember correctly also use doom (death shroud fear) while dazed to atleast counter abit/soak dmg

Sounds fun, Ima try that. :>

Here’s the build btw:
Sword/dagger and shortbow

10 power (Mug)
30 crit (F.retal,crit haste, exe)
30 cond (Thrill, bountiful/trickster,Sleight)

6 runes of the mesmer
1 sigil of para,1 sigil of rage on s/d
1 sigil of fire on shortbow (personal pref)
Berserk amulet
Heal: Hide in shadows
Utility: Scorpion wire, shadow step, shadow refuge (you can mix and match with dev venom, roll for init and signet of agility for cond removal, depends on enemy setup)
Elite: thieves guild (Basilik venom is overkill, plus spending 1.5 out 3 stealth sec casting isn’t good, but if you feel you need it sure)

Defensive variant: Get 2 sigils of para, Knight’s amulet, Shadowstep,roll for init, shadow refuge. Try to daze the enemy as much as possible, let someone else do the dmg.
Needs a spike build partner that you communicate with to be effective.

Look if we stop the bullkitten those of us who know each class know this build. It’s got no real burst, daze doesn’t always hit, and flanking strike is kitten. Can you be good on it? Sure. Will most people? Nope. Please move one.

This rage isn’t an attack on all of thiefdom. Its one kittening gimmicky build let it go so pvp can be better.

for daze lock thiefs

you forgot the trap that has a very long knockdown

thats an important part of the chain of skills.

@ OP

Y being the only class doing 16k dmg with one and only hit is very skillfull and fair for all the other classes.Try playing a Ranger and watch the movements and reactions of your pet in sPvP.Play full power-crit build and if you see a number bigger than 10k im giving you my account

I really hope not. I originally ran to S/D to get away from all the QQ. And While the weapon set is 10x more powerful then people realize, its still not nearly as bad as the backstab build. Tactical Strike is bugged atm anyway. I hit people in the front and still daze them consistantly. It also blinds and dazes when its only suppose to do one or the other. Fix those two bugs and we may have the first skill based thief build. Wouldn’t that be nice.

The build will become popular in tournaments and that’s not half bad seeing that you can count on allies to get out of “fire”, I don’t suggest people to run dazelock in sPvP as you will slaughtered by the passing mob, you know how it works :-), you fight somebody hoping in a 1vs1 and suddenly the angry mob with pitchforks+cats+dogs show up from behind the corner…..and it’s never your mob

I’ve been naming this build for months now, why does it have so much attention now? I’ve been using it before the Mesmer’s Rune change, the potential was pretty clear with a virtually spammable C&D (with traits) and a 2+ seconds daze, that didn’t change at all since release (also a very Initiative efficient spec). It’s not much of a surprise though, LDB bleed and backstab specs are mindlessly easy to play and too popular.
With this build, sometimes the locking potential can be too much and the Sword chain hits a little too hard. You also remain in stealth for longer than a backstab thief as you don’t burst enemies down with this set which might add annoyance to an already annoying (to fight against) spec.

SwickHobo.5096:

I really hope not. I originally ran to S/D to get away from all the QQ. And While the weapon set is 10x more powerful then people realize, its still not nearly as bad as the backstab build. Tactical Strike is bugged atm anyway. I hit people in the front and still daze them consistantly. It also blinds and dazes when its only suppose to do one or the other. Fix those two bugs and we may have the first skill based thief build. Wouldn’t that be nice.

I’ve never had it daze and blind at the same time. However, the side is considered part of the back when it comes to dazing. It only blinds if you’re practically right in front of the target. One step to either side of your enemy and you will daze them. That’s how it is intended.

After the fix to stealth, sure in 1v1s bad players will get daze-locked… but SPvP rarely brings out 1v1s… which means that daze-lock setup thief will have a solid 3~ seconds to be completely vulnerable in between every daze.
That is a billion times more manageable than the insta-gib, stealthed while out of stealth kitten happening at the moment, and the QQ won’t be any more than that of bull’s charge 100-blades warriors.

S/D is a good setup, especially if played well, but that involves playing well… FoTM thief basilisk venom->1-shot spike players tend to be terrible… yet get kills on people who like to think they are not…
Entirely different situation.

Zunhar.4079:

SwickHobo.5096:

I really hope not. I originally ran to S/D to get away from all the QQ. And While the weapon set is 10x more powerful then people realize, its still not nearly as bad as the backstab build. Tactical Strike is bugged atm anyway. I hit people in the front and still daze them consistantly. It also blinds and dazes when its only suppose to do one or the other. Fix those two bugs and we may have the first skill based thief build. Wouldn’t that be nice.

I’ve never had it daze and blind at the same time. However, the side is considered part of the back when it comes to dazing. It only blinds if you’re practically right in front of the target. One step to either side of your enemy and you will daze them. That’s how it is intended.

yea your right, i forgot i had the blind on stealth trait selected. My bad. But regardless the Front/Back hitboxes need some looking at, I’ll link a video once it’s uploaded to youtube. Its kinda rediculous.

Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLXn4jnu98c&feature=youtu.be

As you can see i’m closer to the front of the golem then the side, but its still classified as a backstab.

SwickHobo.5096:

Zunhar.4079:

SwickHobo.5096:

I really hope not. I originally ran to S/D to get away from all the QQ. And While the weapon set is 10x more powerful then people realize, its still not nearly as bad as the backstab build. Tactical Strike is bugged atm anyway. I hit people in the front and still daze them consistantly. It also blinds and dazes when its only suppose to do one or the other. Fix those two bugs and we may have the first skill based thief build. Wouldn’t that be nice.

I’ve never had it daze and blind at the same time. However, the side is considered part of the back when it comes to dazing. It only blinds if you’re practically right in front of the target. One step to either side of your enemy and you will daze them. That’s how it is intended.

yea your right, i forgot i had the blind on stealth trait selected. My bad. But regardless the Front/Back hitboxes need some looking at, I’ll link a video once it’s uploaded to youtube. Its kinda rediculous.

Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLXn4jnu98c&feature=youtu.be

As you can see i’m closer to the front of the golem then the side, but its still classified as a backstab.

Wow, and I actually thought looking at them was a viable way to stop it…

garethh.3518:

SwickHobo.5096:

Zunhar.4079:

SwickHobo.5096:

I really hope not. I originally ran to S/D to get away from all the QQ. And While the weapon set is 10x more powerful then people realize, its still not nearly as bad as the backstab build. Tactical Strike is bugged atm anyway. I hit people in the front and still daze them consistantly. It also blinds and dazes when its only suppose to do one or the other. Fix those two bugs and we may have the first skill based thief build. Wouldn’t that be nice.

I’ve never had it daze and blind at the same time. However, the side is considered part of the back when it comes to dazing. It only blinds if you’re practically right in front of the target. One step to either side of your enemy and you will daze them. That’s how it is intended.

yea your right, i forgot i had the blind on stealth trait selected. My bad. But regardless the Front/Back hitboxes need some looking at, I’ll link a video once it’s uploaded to youtube. Its kinda rediculous.

Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLXn4jnu98c&feature=youtu.be

As you can see i’m closer to the front of the golem then the side, but its still classified as a backstab.

Wow, and I actually thought looking at them was a viable way to stop it…

lol, nope not at all. It’s even worse with melee assist turned off. If your looking DIRRECTLY at me, i can just swing, then walk through you and it’ll count as a backstab too. That’s my favorite. lol

Arheundel.6451:

….Just a simple reminder….

What get abused….get nerfed

when you get constantly nefed you have no choice but to look for other viable options to keep being competitive.

Nyarlathotep.9702:

Here’s the build btw:
Sword/dagger and shortbow

10 power (Mug)
30 crit (F.retal,crit haste, exe)
30 cond (Thrill, bountiful/trickster,Sleight)

6 runes of the mesmer
1 sigil of para,1 sigil of rage on s/d
1 sigil of fire on shortbow (personal pref)
Berserk amulet
Heal: Hide in shadows
Utility: Scorpion wire, shadow step, shadow refuge (you can mix and match with dev venom, roll for init and signet of agility for cond removal, depends on enemy setup)
Elite: thieves guild (Basilik venom is overkill, plus spending 1.5 out 3 stealth sec casting isn’t good, but if you feel you need it sure)

Defensive variant: Get 2 sigils of para, Knight’s amulet, Shadowstep,roll for init, shadow refuge. Try to daze the enemy as much as possible, let someone else do the dmg.
Needs a spike build partner that you communicate with to be effective.

I know sigils of Paralyzation increase “stun” duration but is Daze a stun?

Brando.1374:

Nyarlathotep.9702:

Here’s the build btw:
Sword/dagger and shortbow

10 power (Mug)
30 crit (F.retal,crit haste, exe)
30 cond (Thrill, bountiful/trickster,Sleight)

6 runes of the mesmer
1 sigil of para,1 sigil of rage on s/d
1 sigil of fire on shortbow (personal pref)
Berserk amulet
Heal: Hide in shadows
Utility: Scorpion wire, shadow step, shadow refuge (you can mix and match with dev venom, roll for init and signet of agility for cond removal, depends on enemy setup)
Elite: thieves guild (Basilik venom is overkill, plus spending 1.5 out 3 stealth sec casting isn’t good, but if you feel you need it sure)

Defensive variant: Get 2 sigils of para, Knight’s amulet, Shadowstep,roll for init, shadow refuge. Try to daze the enemy as much as possible, let someone else do the dmg.
Needs a spike build partner that you communicate with to be effective.

I know sigils of Paralyzation increase “stun” duration but is Daze a stun?

Sigil of Paralyzation affects daze as well. Its actually a 33% increase, not 15% like the tooltip says. It doesn’t stack with runes of Mesmer though.

Also, 15 Shadow 15 Trickery is a much better variant than 30 Trickery. Infusion of Shadow is amazing.

Zunhar.4079:

Brando.1374:

Nyarlathotep.9702:

Here’s the build btw:
Sword/dagger and shortbow

10 power (Mug)
30 crit (F.retal,crit haste, exe)
30 cond (Thrill, bountiful/trickster,Sleight)

6 runes of the mesmer
1 sigil of para,1 sigil of rage on s/d
1 sigil of fire on shortbow (personal pref)
Berserk amulet
Heal: Hide in shadows
Utility: Scorpion wire, shadow step, shadow refuge (you can mix and match with dev venom, roll for init and signet of agility for cond removal, depends on enemy setup)
Elite: thieves guild (Basilik venom is overkill, plus spending 1.5 out 3 stealth sec casting isn’t good, but if you feel you need it sure)

Defensive variant: Get 2 sigils of para, Knight’s amulet, Shadowstep,roll for init, shadow refuge. Try to daze the enemy as much as possible, let someone else do the dmg.
Needs a spike build partner that you communicate with to be effective.

I know sigils of Paralyzation increase “stun” duration but is Daze a stun?

Sigil of Paralyzation affects daze as well. Its actually a 33% increase, not 15% like the tooltip says. It doesn’t stack with runes of Mesmer though.

Also, 15 Shadow 15 Trickery is a much better variant than 30 Trickery. Infusion of Shadow is amazing.

so since the sigil does not stack with the rune of Mesmer would it be a good idea to put a different sigil?

Zunhar.4079:

Brando.1374:

Nyarlathotep.9702:

Here’s the build btw:
Sword/dagger and shortbow

10 power (Mug)
30 crit (F.retal,crit haste, exe)
30 cond (Thrill, bountiful/trickster,Sleight)

6 runes of the mesmer
1 sigil of para,1 sigil of rage on s/d
1 sigil of fire on shortbow (personal pref)
Berserk amulet
Heal: Hide in shadows
Utility: Scorpion wire, shadow step, shadow refuge (you can mix and match with dev venom, roll for init and signet of agility for cond removal, depends on enemy setup)
Elite: thieves guild (Basilik venom is overkill, plus spending 1.5 out 3 stealth sec casting isn’t good, but if you feel you need it sure)

Defensive variant: Get 2 sigils of para, Knight’s amulet, Shadowstep,roll for init, shadow refuge. Try to daze the enemy as much as possible, let someone else do the dmg.
Needs a spike build partner that you communicate with to be effective.

I know sigils of Paralyzation increase “stun” duration but is Daze a stun?

Sigil of Paralyzation affects daze as well. Its actually a 33% increase, not 15% like the tooltip says. It doesn’t stack with runes of Mesmer though.

Also, 15 Shadow 15 Trickery is a much better variant than 30 Trickery. Infusion of Shadow is amazing.

Steal with daze is insta cast and on a low cooldown relatively. With good timing you can stop anything. This build isn’t about staying in the fray, it’s about stun locking and finishing the job or stun locking and having a friend finish the job.