Guild Wars 2

please do not release stronghold the way it currently is when the expansion releases.

The game mode has flaws and is in my personal opinion not as good as it could be, so to prevent frustration and people giving up on the game mode right away i ask arenanet to not rush things with the new game mode.

take your time to polish everything, host a couple more stronghold betas after the expansion shipped and work closely together with the players and their feedback. the worst thing would be that the company invests a lot of time into this and in the end it ends up as courtyard v2.

currently certain things are just not very optimized. archers are weak, guards die too fast, defending is usually not the way to go and transform capping of mist essence can be a pain for whoever has to compete with it. many games also end on timer and turn into a “massacre as many npcs for points” fest.

some players will maybe be angry or not understand why i make this thread but i rather have them take their time and release something that can become a competitive game mode that is worth building upon and the players enjoy.

It should just be deleted. Worst idea for a new PvP mode that I’ve ever seen.

They can fine tune it all they want it won’t change the fact that there’s already an entire genre dedicated to this type of game play and that, as far as I know, not a single GW2 player asked for anything like this.
Meanwhile the things we do ask for don’t get addressed, ie: Solo queue.
/QQ

stronghold should not be deleted as long as they improve it.

stronghold is not really a moba if you’re trying to say that. it’s basically a simplified version of GvG with npcs that break open the gates and heroes instead of flags.

soloQ doesn’t have anything to do with this and is a whole different subject, please keep it out of this thread.

If you don’t like it that is fine. Fortunately not everyone agrees with you and life goes on.

do you see me writing anywhere in my post wether i like or dislike the game mode? i simply said that it is incomplete in its current state and that i would welcome it if they delayed the release to polish it up so that we can have a good and enjoyable game mode, not something that people will play a week, ragequit and move on. if people afk during stronghold betas because they get stronghold it’s already a bad sign.

So, you solo queued stronghold a few times, lost, and made a hate post on the forum. I actually like stronghold a lot and know many other people who do in the high tier scene.

Considering how quiet the thread has been for Stronghold feedback, I’d say that it’s in good shape. If you don’t think so, then feel free to go to that thread and provide specific, constructive feedback based on your last experience with the last Stronghold beta event so that things can be tweaked.

Personally, I think it’s in good enough shape for release.

I think Stronghold can be improved.

• Let door guards able to be resurrected when the door is still up. Supplies will instant res both of them at the same time.
• Killing a player drops supplies.
• Killing a player in your base spawn a skritt.

Archers will be able to be useful in keeping the door guards down. PvE is reduced significantly. Players don’t have to keep running supply, and players don’t have to keep killing the mobs.

Firebird.8324:

So, you solo queued stronghold a few times, lost, and made a hate post on the forum. I actually like stronghold a lot and know many other people who do in the high tier scene.

I won many times in stronghold, and I still hate Stronghold. The reason is because of the supply runner role. I was the only one who ran supplies. The times I lost is because I don’t bother running supplies and just kill players.

I don’t want to keep killing mobs and run supply all the time. I want to PvP.

idk why people on these forums always assume that if you make a thread about something that you lost against whatever and are salty because of it.

i’m making this post because i want the game mode to be successful, and because of nothing else.

Stronghold isn’t bad. It just needs some help to make it more PvP oriented and less PvE. There have been a ton of suggestions on how to improve it, but it seems ANET has lost interest in it and just keeps rolling it out the same as the previous test. Let’s see if anything new is in it this week.

My biggest issue with stronghold is having to run back to your own base to spend supply. You waste a lot of time without fighting or contesting a objective. Just running. Its boring. This problem is enough to make me don’t wanna play it.

Guards do not need buffed unless their anti-doorbreaker functionality is nerfed. This mechanic already gives stronghold a PvE feel, no need to exacerbate that. If the guards had more HP and base damage, but didn’t one-shot doorbreakers, they could still assist defenders, but wouldn’t need to be killed over anything.

Archers need a major buff. They should be the slower, but more reliable option compared to doorbreakers. Instead their slower and less reliable. Their HP is about the same as a DB, but they stand still and poke players, making them effectively useless.

Channels being interrupted only by CC and treb removing all stability both need to go. The latter was a response to the former being too good, but feels very clunky. It makes the treb too mandatory.

Jekkt.6045:

please do not release stronghold the way it currently is when the expansion releases.

The game mode has flaws and is in my personal opinion not as good as it could be, so to prevent frustration and people giving up on the game mode right away i ask arenanet to not rush things with the new game mode.

take your time to polish everything, host a couple more stronghold betas after the expansion shipped and work closely together with the players and their feedback. the worst thing would be that the company invests a lot of time into this and in the end it ends up as courtyard v2.

currently certain things are just not very optimized. archers are weak, guards die too fast, defending is usually not the way to go and transform capping of mist essence can be a pain for whoever has to compete with it. many games also end on timer and turn into a “massacre as many npcs for points” fest.

some players will maybe be angry or not understand why i make this thread but i rather have them take their time and release something that can become a competitive game mode that is worth building upon and the players enjoy.

Three thoughts.

1.) I don’t like Stronghold either.

2.) The new Elite Specializations will most certainly shake up PvP. Expect meta to be reset

3.) Even if they do release Stronghold (which they will) it will still be grouped with the unranked/banned from ESL tournament play and ranked maps like Skyhammer and Courtyard currently are. The most important thing is for ArenaNet to leave that little checkbox allowing us to decide if we want Stronghold in the map rotation. They should also add checkboxes for Deathmatch and “All Conquest Maps” then “All Ranked Conquest Maps”.
.

The game mode has potential. It just is flawed NOW and needs more tweaking, now that it has a separate Q they can play around with a longer time limit and more incentive to actual fight other PvPers in the map.

OP I agree.

It’s a pretty bad mode right now, but it has potential.

Make it more focused on teamfights rather than running around and fighting NPC’s. Think about GvG in GW1: Main fight was the big teamfight in mid, but it was always possible to split off with a fewplayers and do sth. else (killing NPC’s or the flagrunner etc.)

Most important thing IMHO is to make a certain (fairly generous) number of archers+DB’s spawn automatically.

My biggest problem with Stronghold is, that most players currently just don’t have a clue what’s going on (e.g. which tactic is viable, when to use the treb, when the channeled buffs are spawning).

Personally, I think the best thing that currently can happen, is that Stronghold is available 24/7. That’s the only way we can get proper experience and provide viable feedback. Currently it just feels every has a different perspective what is good and what is bad at Stronghold (while most are just QQing that it is not the gamemode they have hoped for).

PowerBottom.5796:

It’s a pretty bad mode right now, but it has potential.

Make it more focused on teamfights rather than running around and fighting NPC’s. Think about GvG in GW1: Main fight was the big teamfight in mid, but it was always possible to split off with a fewplayers and do sth. else (killing NPC’s or the flagrunner etc.)

Most important thing IMHO is to make a certain (fairly generous) number of archers+DB’s spawn automatically.

easiest way to do this would be to increase the match size for stronhold to 8v8 (easily doable now with the squad system coming with HoT) as it would allow you to have enough people in the team to peel a few off for side objectives whilst still pushing a decent team fight (and potentially a couple of those people rotating in or out of the team fight depending on how the side stuff is going)

zxstanyxz.8769:

PowerBottom.5796:

It’s a pretty bad mode right now, but it has potential.

Make it more focused on teamfights rather than running around and fighting NPC’s. Think about GvG in GW1: Main fight was the big teamfight in mid, but it was always possible to split off with a fewplayers and do sth. else (killing NPC’s or the flagrunner etc.)

Most important thing IMHO is to make a certain (fairly generous) number of archers+DB’s spawn automatically.

easiest way to do this would be to increase the match size for stronhold to 8v8 (easily doable now with the squad system coming with HoT) as it would allow you to have enough people in the team to peel a few off for side objectives whilst still pushing a decent team fight (and potentially a couple of those people rotating in or out of the team fight depending on how the side stuff is going)

Yes, that would also be an option, but I still think running around for supply is sth. no1 really enjoys to do. It’s like the Flagrunner in GW2; no1 wanted to do it. :P

I think it would be cool if you’re maybe still able to bolster up the amount of DB’s and Archers your team has by running supply, but it shouldn’t be absolutely necessary to move the game forward.

Jekkt.6045:

Currently certain things are just not very optimized. archers are weak, guards die too fast, defending is usually not the way to go and transform capping of mist essence can be a pain for whoever has to compete with it. many games also end on timer and turn into a “massacre as many npcs for points” fest.

some players will maybe be angry or not understand why i make this thread but i rather have them take their time and release something that can become a competitive game mode that is worth building upon and the players enjoy.

Archers are Weak. I agree with you on this and I believe I’ve said this before; ARCHERS SHOULD IGNORE PLAYERS. Archers are more of a threat if they ignore players and just go for the Guards, that way, people actually spend time to kill them and it helps with the overall push and pull of the game. What I mean by this is, people spend time killing Archers, meaning they spend less time killing door breakers, door breakers have more time to get to the doors because people are spending time killing archers, etc etc. It basically has a knock-on effect.

Guards die too fast. I’m okay with the outside guards dieing fast but may be it would be better for the game if they had increased health.

Defending is not the way to go. I am sorry but you are sorely mistaken. A good team of 4 can easily defend against a group of 5 pushing in whilst having 1 person run supply and break down the gates and taking down the NPCs.

The thing about Stronghold is that it’s a game of give and take, if you commit too much to offense, you’re going to lose out on defense and you’re giving the enemy the chance to come back, if you commit too much to defense, you lose out on points on the rest of the map.
You can never have a perfect balance because that requires all players in your team to be god-mode and that’s impossible.

A team that can lockdown the central supply point can easily deny the other team any push on the map, but to counter that, there’s the treb and then there’s the Champion which everyone will rush for.

Tranform Capping can be a pain
Yeap Transform capping needs to go away but in the mean time; Necro (Corrupt Boon, signets, Focus etc), Engie (Moa, Minefield removes boons), Mesmer (Moa, Arcane Thievery).

Many games end on Timer
Shows how tough that match must have been. And yea, if you can’t tactically kill NPCs to make sure you have good point score whilst going for the Lord, you really shouldn’t be playing this game.
Any team that ignores Champs will lose, any team that ignores NPCs “might lose” because they could just go for Champs and still have good point score.

Personally I like this game mode. The reason why a lot of people will find it tedious is because it isn’t as simple as Conquest.
I mean just look at the most chosen maps in Conquest, every single one is the simplest map. Legacy of the Foefire? Forest? Battle of Khylo? No one ever picks the maps that requires some semblance of additional thought, Temple? one 1 or 2 people pick that in any roll, Spirit? Pfft that map is broken man!

Stronghold will have it’s audience but a vast majority of people will play it and think, “yea…. and here i thought Conquest required good rotation and map awareness, this mode be crazy!!” because that’s exactly how I felt after playing Stronghold for 3 straight days and going back to Conquest.

after another weekend of testing, what do you people think, is stronghold ready to become the next esl game mode that viewers will enjoy to watch? or is it not ready yet and needs tweaking, changes or even reworks?

suggestions and reviews appreciated

Nah cant this map be made for custom maps with 10 player team sizes?

If so, we can have better matches in Custom. This map would be better for 10v10

Jekkt.6045:

after another weekend of testing, what do you people think, is stronghold ready to become the next esl game mode that viewers will enjoy to watch?

No amount of changes will make it that. As a competitive game mode, conquest will always be better no matter how many changes are made to stronghold.

What stronghold should and does aim to do is get more players into PvP. A larger base is better for competition (larger player pool = better matches and faster queues) and viewership of tournaments. I’m worried about what looks like ANets attempt to monetize PvP in stronghold (hero skins). If that’s true, then they’ll likely push stronghold over conquest, which isn’t good.

on the other hand stronghold could also split the pvp community, the game mode not really becoming competitive but still pulling players away from conquest which is “competitive”.

compared to conquest, stronghold is also way less pug/beginner friendly because it requires more execution of roles than conquest.

Knighthonor.4061:

Nah cant this map be made for custom maps with 10 player team sizes?

If so, we can have better matches in Custom. This map would be better for 10v10

pvp games usually start to lagg at 10v10 + there is just not enough room for 20 people on the map, it would just end in a zergfest.

Exedore.6320:

Jekkt.6045:

after another weekend of testing, what do you people think, is stronghold ready to become the next esl game mode that viewers will enjoy to watch?

No amount of changes will make it that. As a competitive game mode, conquest will always be better no matter how many changes are made to stronghold.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAA. Conquest. Skyhammer says hi.

By design conquest is okay but it completely lacks a good amount of objectives in every map. PvP needs more than brawling it needs various choice making.

If you don’t like it fine, but thinking conquest can take GW2 into Esports is just dumb.

Honestly, who cares that you don’t like it? Just don’t play it. No big deal. Why deprive everyone else because you don’t think it is ready? That’s just silly.

I think Stronghold has potential. In some ways it reminds me of a less interesting Fort Aspenwood in GW1. It’s come a long way since I first tried it, and I do think the devs are listening.

But yes, we didn’t ask for Stronghold. I’d gladly give it back for something we HAVE asked for.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Exedore.6320:

Jekkt.6045:

after another weekend of testing, what do you people think, is stronghold ready to become the next esl game mode that viewers will enjoy to watch?

No amount of changes will make it that. As a competitive game mode, conquest will always be better no matter how many changes are made to stronghold.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAA. Conquest. Skyhammer says hi.

By design conquest is okay but it completely lacks a good amount of objectives in every map. PvP needs more than brawling it needs various choice making.

If you don’t like it fine, but thinking conquest can take GW2 into Esports is just dumb.

Thinking anything will make GW2 esports is just dumb.

Archon.6480:

Honestly, who cares that you don’t like it? Just don’t play it. No big deal. Why deprive everyone else because you don’t think it is ready? That’s just silly.

i never said i don’t like it. and yes, i think it’s not ready yet. when you release something in an “unfinished” way it can drive people away and even if you try and fix it, if the initial impression was a bad one, people will always remember that. the best example for this would most likely be assassin’s creed unity, but let’s not go deeper into that.

SkiTz.4590:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Exedore.6320:

Jekkt.6045:

after another weekend of testing, what do you people think, is stronghold ready to become the next esl game mode that viewers will enjoy to watch?

No amount of changes will make it that. As a competitive game mode, conquest will always be better no matter how many changes are made to stronghold.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAA. Conquest. Skyhammer says hi.

By design conquest is okay but it completely lacks a good amount of objectives in every map. PvP needs more than brawling it needs various choice making.

If you don’t like it fine, but thinking conquest can take GW2 into Esports is just dumb.

Thinking anything will make GW2 esports is just dumb.

you can’t make a game esports, a game becomes esports on its own. people have fun, people want to compete, a company starts giving out prices and the popularity of the game grows and grows. obviously certain conditions have to be met and you have to balance a game well and keep it interesting, but besides that; a game becomes esports.

Seems like ANET just released the same thing again. Disappointing. They really need to make the channel for the heroes more skill based. When someone starts a channel, it should strip all stealth, stability, and aegis. Make people actually fight for it.