Guild Wars 2

does protection effect condition damage?

Nope.

NOTHING currently effects / mitigates condi damage taken.

Would be neat.
/15

I always thought it would be interesting if retaliation ticked off of condition damage. I got yelled at by other players though saying that would be OP and kill off condition classes.

I actually made a thread about Retaliation ticking damage for conditions in the Profession Balance forum not too long ago: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Retaliation-retuned-for-Condition-Damage

Mostly went ignored. Alternatively it’d be cool if a new boon was added (or this effect was added to a current boon) that used the same 33% condition duration reduction effect that you get from Guardian’s Purging Flames utility.

I’m personally of the side that conditions are mostly fine and the meta just needs some tweaks to condition removal and application, but if enough players are complaining about it I’m willing to work with them for a solution that makes everyone happy.

There was a time long long time ago(at pretty short time) when retal procced on conditions(atleast bleeds) Engineers and necros(or any other condi class for that matter9 were killing themself faster than the opponent, considering that retaliation is ticking higher than any bleed tick. it was HORRIBLE HORRIBLE HORRIBLE
:(

You guys also have to remember condition damage hwile it can’t be mitigated by armor/protection invulnerability it can be prevented by the same means as power damage, like blind/invul/block/evade/dodge/reflect/plain immunties but also cleansed. getting 3 stacks of bleed on you might deal 3k damage over 10seconds, same as an auto attack from some power classes but it’s instant and can’t be cleansed.

Fixing “condition spam”(power damage is just as spamy tbh) isn’t so easy and arenanet has made it harder for themself by increasing the amount and the power of cleanses while adding extra immunties to it.
The real problem with condition “spam” is not really the damage but the soft cc(blind, weakness, cripple/chill, immob) they usually have an easier time to access than power classes while also being tanker, but if they weren’t tankier than condition as main source of damage would be quite pointless since you could achieve same amount of damage but uncleansable in a short amount of time.

What i would do is tweak condition application to less CC+DMG and more pure damage application, but also turning down the amount of condi application+cleanse so it doesn’t turn out to be like it was during the double/tripple cantrip ele era where playing something like necro was basicly like playing ele in the current meta unless you had an engineer to help you cover your bleeds with..

Sorry if this is unreadable but i’m on quite some strong painkillers right now after dropping a kettlebell on my foot

OR maybe reduce the damage condition builds do but rather add more controlling effects so condition specs become less about killing and more about controlling/supporting, so condition specs become more offensive support players

Nope, just like weakness blind aegis vigor confusion torment retaliation it doesn’t affect condi play at all. Immo does not affect condi neither since necro nor engi need to face the target and warrior has insanely large aoe. Heck not even blocking or dodge mitigate condi dmg. The only way to counter condi is cleanse and vitality to a lessor degree.
Condi vs condi is pretty much like text mud game in which you play the right card – cleanse – at the right time meanwhile keep spamming your condi, which actually can be fun

noobftw.9654:

Nope, just like weakness blind aegis vigor confusion torment retaliation it doesn’t affect condi play at all. Immo does not affect condi neither since necro nor engi need to face the target and warrior has insanely large aoe. Heck not even blocking or dodge mitigate condi dmg. The only way to counter condi is cleanse and vitality to a lessor degree.
Condi vs condi is pretty much like text mud game in which you play the right card – cleanse – at the right time meanwhile keep spamming your condi, which actually can be fun

So much false statements here.. Blind, block, aegis(block), dodge, immunities all help vs conditions, they STOP the actual application, it however doesn’t stop the damage when applied,.. but then again you cannot cleanse power damage once that is applied either right?

3stacks of bleed with average condition damage of a class over 10seconds is 3.3kish damage, say 6 since that is a better average so about 6.6k damage over 10seconds, add in a burn and maybe 6500 or something, poison maybe 1.3k, so like 13-15kish damage over 10seconds. Which is actully quite alot but not really over the top.
However conditions can be denied the same way as a power class but also cleansed which a power class damage can not be, but not mitigated through armor to offset that or crit so it’s more sustainy damage(however old dhumfire completely broke that..).
The problem with condition specs, especially necro and engineer have to be more naturally tanky than a zerker class to be effective since their damage is… over time! But also that they usually provide more soft cc abilities.

Also people always hate to get killed my conditions/debuffs more than direct damage in every game since it’s so more agonizing way to die.

Balanceing conditions and power specs isn’t as simple as simple as NERF CONDI DMG, BUFF CLEANSES

Cleanses are OP. One can technically remove 25 stacks of bleeding or 15 sec of burn.
Their CDs are not though, because condis are very easily reapplied. It is my opinion that cleanses should proc over time. Each proc would remove some duration (poison, burn) or stacks (bleed, vuln) depending on the cleanse.
A hard cap for duration condis seems necessary as well. For example 15 seconds of chill.
That would probably mean that power damage would get a hard cap as well, which many people wouldn’t agree with. I wouldn’t mind, as long as it is impossible to get 30 seconds of poison or cripple.

noobftw.9654:

Nope, just like weakness blind aegis vigor confusion torment retaliation it doesn’t affect condi play at all. Immo does not affect condi neither since necro nor engi need to face the target and warrior has insanely large aoe. Heck not even blocking or dodge mitigate condi dmg. The only way to counter condi is cleanse and vitality to a lessor degree.
Condi vs condi is pretty much like text mud game in which you play the right card – cleanse – at the right time meanwhile keep spamming your condi, which actually can be fun

Ha. Good stuff. Abilities that apply conditions are subject to blind, aegis, vigor(dodge), confusion, retaliation, just like power based attacks, because they all register as a damage dealing attack which then applies the condition.

If you dodge the attack, block the attack, blind the attack, then you don’t get the condition. These moves are impacted to a much, much lesser degree by protection and weakness, since most of the damage is from the condition, but the trade off is that the damage isn’t front loaded, and can be cleansed which negates some of it.

IMO Condition vs. physical power is in a pretty decent state of balance right now. The problem is that condition/attrition play is better for small scale engagements, like 1v1 or 2v2 fights on a node, which happens a lot in our current games modes, and power damage is much, much better for bigger team fights where there’s AoE cleansing going on and downing a player quickly matters, making up-front damage much more desirable than damage over time.

Conditions have a slight edge in our current game modes, but are not better, in general, than physical damage.

The other problem is that all classes have the same access to physical damage mitigation via toughness. We can all take toughness amulets and traits, etc. Not all classes have the same access to condition prevention. I think this is the main problem.

IMO, there should be a condition duration reduction stat built into PvP amulet sets, exactly like toughness, and people should be able to gear up for -% condition duration if they choose. That’s called counter-play, and it’s important for having a constantly shifting meta, which is healthy. If somebody doesn’t like getting wtfpwned by an glass cannon thief, it’s their responsibility to pack some VIT and have some toughness.

We ALL laugh together when a player in full zerker gear cries about getting 2-shot. If -% condition duration gear existed, we could all do the same thing to people who whined about getting ground out by condition/attrition builds. Some classes just don’t have enough access to cleansing. Let us gear up to protect ourselves from builds we don’t like, or that we have a problem with.

Actually, I retract the -% condition duration part. That’d be abusive for people who could never be slowed, and could only be feared, poisoned or what have you for very very short duration. Condition controlling abilities probably shouldn’t be effected by this. Instead, this stat should reduce condition damage, rather than condition duration. I think that’d be better for balance than having melees gear up for this so it’s impossible to kite them or CC them off.

Ludus Rex.1562:

noobftw.9654:

Nope, just like weakness blind aegis vigor confusion torment retaliation it doesn’t affect condi play at all. Immo does not affect condi neither since necro nor engi need to face the target and warrior has insanely large aoe. Heck not even blocking or dodge mitigate condi dmg. The only way to counter condi is cleanse and vitality to a lessor degree.
Condi vs condi is pretty much like text mud game in which you play the right card – cleanse – at the right time meanwhile keep spamming your condi, which actually can be fun

Ha. Good stuff. Abilities that apply conditions are subject to blind, aegis, vigor(dodge), confusion, retaliation, just like power based attacks, because they all register as a damage dealing attack which then applies the condition.

If you dodge the attack, block the attack, blind the attack, then you don’t get the condition. These moves are impacted to a much, much lesser degree by protection and weakness, since most of the damage is from the condition, but the trade off is that the damage isn’t front loaded, and can be cleansed which negates some of it.

IMO Condition vs. physical power is in a pretty decent state of balance right now. The problem is that condition/attrition play is better for small scale engagements, like 1v1 or 2v2 fights on a node, which happens a lot in our current games modes, and power damage is much, much better for bigger team fights where there’s AoE cleansing going on and downing a player quickly matters, making up-front damage much more desirable than damage over time.

Conditions have a slight edge in our current game modes, but are not better, in general, than physical damage.

The other problem is that all classes have the same access to physical damage mitigation via toughness. We can all take toughness amulets and traits, etc. Not all classes have the same access to condition prevention. I think this is the main problem.

IMO, there should be a condition duration reduction stat built into PvP amulet sets, exactly like toughness, and people should be able to gear up for -% condition duration if they choose. That’s called counter-play, and it’s important for having a constantly shifting meta, which is healthy. If somebody doesn’t like getting wtfpwned by an glass cannon thief, it’s their responsibility to pack some VIT and have some toughness.

We ALL laugh together when a player in full zerker gear cries about getting 2-shot. If -% condition duration gear existed, we could all do the same thing to people who whined about getting ground out by condition/attrition builds. Some classes just don’t have enough access to cleansing. Let us gear up to protect ourselves from builds we don’t like, or that we have a problem with.

Hmmm, last time I checked blind don’t affect marks, warrior f1 long bow gigantic fire field , thief can do choking gas while in stealth, no reveal, no effect from blind, so is caltrop, ranger traps, signet of spike, etc etc. last time I checked, block, invul, dodge aegis doesn’t stop condi ticking, retaliation don’t retaliate on condi dmg, and confusion don’t confuse condi ticks. Nice abet has fixed all these bugs.

noobftw.9654:

Ludus Rex.1562:

noobftw.9654:

Nope, just like weakness blind aegis vigor confusion torment retaliation it doesn’t affect condi play at all. Immo does not affect condi neither since necro nor engi need to face the target and warrior has insanely large aoe. Heck not even blocking or dodge mitigate condi dmg. The only way to counter condi is cleanse and vitality to a lessor degree.
Condi vs condi is pretty much like text mud game in which you play the right card – cleanse – at the right time meanwhile keep spamming your condi, which actually can be fun

Ha. Good stuff. Abilities that apply conditions are subject to blind, aegis, vigor(dodge), confusion, retaliation, just like power based attacks, because they all register as a damage dealing attack which then applies the condition.

If you dodge the attack, block the attack, blind the attack, then you don’t get the condition. These moves are impacted to a much, much lesser degree by protection and weakness, since most of the damage is from the condition, but the trade off is that the damage isn’t front loaded, and can be cleansed which negates some of it.

IMO Condition vs. physical power is in a pretty decent state of balance right now. The problem is that condition/attrition play is better for small scale engagements, like 1v1 or 2v2 fights on a node, which happens a lot in our current games modes, and power damage is much, much better for bigger team fights where there’s AoE cleansing going on and downing a player quickly matters, making up-front damage much more desirable than damage over time.

Conditions have a slight edge in our current game modes, but are not better, in general, than physical damage.

The other problem is that all classes have the same access to physical damage mitigation via toughness. We can all take toughness amulets and traits, etc. Not all classes have the same access to condition prevention. I think this is the main problem.

IMO, there should be a condition duration reduction stat built into PvP amulet sets, exactly like toughness, and people should be able to gear up for -% condition duration if they choose. That’s called counter-play, and it’s important for having a constantly shifting meta, which is healthy. If somebody doesn’t like getting wtfpwned by an glass cannon thief, it’s their responsibility to pack some VIT and have some toughness.

We ALL laugh together when a player in full zerker gear cries about getting 2-shot. If -% condition duration gear existed, we could all do the same thing to people who whined about getting ground out by condition/attrition builds. Some classes just don’t have enough access to cleansing. Let us gear up to protect ourselves from builds we don’t like, or that we have a problem with.

Hmmm, last time I checked blind don’t affect marks, warrior f1 long bow gigantic fire field , thief can do choking gas while in stealth, no reveal, no effect from blind, so is caltrop, ranger traps, signet of spike, etc etc. last time I checked, block, invul, dodge aegis doesn’t stop condi ticking, retaliation don’t retaliate on condi dmg, and confusion don’t confuse condi ticks. Nice abet has fixed all these bugs.

block, invul, dodge, ageis don’t stop conditon ticking= true
they do stop the application, so you still have to remove blind/aegis before you can apply conditions or wait out dodges. Same as with power damage except conditions are delayed damage.
retaliation and confusion cause damage when the condition class person is using abilites just the same as power.
You don’t seem to understand and i doubt you will understand considering your name.

Blind works against marks, just no the transfer mark(#4) btw, also works vs signet of spite(not spike). Blind is the main reason i can fight a necro as an engineer(i don’t run automated response) without instantly dying
Warrior fire field, chokeing gas is not really affected by blind no cause they are pulsing aoe fields.

Ludus Rex.1562:

noobftw.9654:

Nope, just like weakness blind aegis vigor confusion torment retaliation it doesn’t affect condi play at all. Immo does not affect condi neither since necro nor engi need to face the target and warrior has insanely large aoe. Heck not even blocking or dodge mitigate condi dmg. The only way to counter condi is cleanse and vitality to a lessor degree.
Condi vs condi is pretty much like text mud game in which you play the right card – cleanse – at the right time meanwhile keep spamming your condi, which actually can be fun

Ha. Good stuff. Abilities that apply conditions are subject to blind, aegis, vigor(dodge), confusion, retaliation, just like power based attacks, because they all register as a damage dealing attack which then applies the condition.

If you dodge the attack, block the attack, blind the attack, then you don’t get the condition. These moves are impacted to a much, much lesser degree by protection and weakness, since most of the damage is from the condition, but the trade off is that the damage isn’t front loaded, and can be cleansed which negates some of it.

IMO Condition vs. physical power is in a pretty decent state of balance right now. The problem is that condition/attrition play is better for small scale engagements, like 1v1 or 2v2 fights on a node, which happens a lot in our current games modes, and power damage is much, much better for bigger team fights where there’s AoE cleansing going on and downing a player quickly matters, making up-front damage much more desirable than damage over time.

Conditions have a slight edge in our current game modes, but are not better, in general, than physical damage.

The other problem is that all classes have the same access to physical damage mitigation via toughness. We can all take toughness amulets and traits, etc. Not all classes have the same access to condition prevention. I think this is the main problem.

IMO, there should be a condition duration reduction stat built into PvP amulet sets, exactly like toughness, and people should be able to gear up for -% condition duration if they choose. That’s called counter-play, and it’s important for having a constantly shifting meta, which is healthy. If somebody doesn’t like getting wtfpwned by an glass cannon thief, it’s their responsibility to pack some VIT and have some toughness.

We ALL laugh together when a player in full zerker gear cries about getting 2-shot. If -% condition duration gear existed, we could all do the same thing to people who whined about getting ground out by condition/attrition builds. Some classes just don’t have enough access to cleansing. Let us gear up to protect ourselves from builds we don’t like, or that we have a problem with.

I agree with most of what you said besides the -duration stats.
I do think if more cleanses worked like the thief heal “hide in shadow” would be a better option. Would also make it more reliable to cleanse certain things when you need to, but you cannot cleanse everything.

game engine don´t suppourt this i guess

this would make wvw very laggy with all this conditions and stuff and i bet thats the reason for this broken thing^^

Vuh.1328:

noobftw.9654:

Ludus Rex.1562:

noobftw.9654:

Nope, just like weakness blind aegis vigor confusion torment retaliation it doesn’t affect condi play at all. Immo does not affect condi neither since necro nor engi need to face the target and warrior has insanely large aoe. Heck not even blocking or dodge mitigate condi dmg. The only way to counter condi is cleanse and vitality to a lessor degree.
Condi vs condi is pretty much like text mud game in which you play the right card – cleanse – at the right time meanwhile keep spamming your condi, which actually can be fun

Ha. Good stuff. Abilities that apply conditions are subject to blind, aegis, vigor(dodge), confusion, retaliation, just like power based attacks, because they all register as a damage dealing attack which then applies the condition.

If you dodge the attack, block the attack, blind the attack, then you don’t get the condition. These moves are impacted to a much, much lesser degree by protection and weakness, since most of the damage is from the condition, but the trade off is that the damage isn’t front loaded, and can be cleansed which negates some of it.

IMO Condition vs. physical power is in a pretty decent state of balance right now. The problem is that condition/attrition play is better for small scale engagements, like 1v1 or 2v2 fights on a node, which happens a lot in our current games modes, and power damage is much, much better for bigger team fights where there’s AoE cleansing going on and downing a player quickly matters, making up-front damage much more desirable than damage over time.

Conditions have a slight edge in our current game modes, but are not better, in general, than physical damage.

The other problem is that all classes have the same access to physical damage mitigation via toughness. We can all take toughness amulets and traits, etc. Not all classes have the same access to condition prevention. I think this is the main problem.

IMO, there should be a condition duration reduction stat built into PvP amulet sets, exactly like toughness, and people should be able to gear up for -% condition duration if they choose. That’s called counter-play, and it’s important for having a constantly shifting meta, which is healthy. If somebody doesn’t like getting wtfpwned by an glass cannon thief, it’s their responsibility to pack some VIT and have some toughness.

We ALL laugh together when a player in full zerker gear cries about getting 2-shot. If -% condition duration gear existed, we could all do the same thing to people who whined about getting ground out by condition/attrition builds. Some classes just don’t have enough access to cleansing. Let us gear up to protect ourselves from builds we don’t like, or that we have a problem with.

Hmmm, last time I checked blind don’t affect marks, warrior f1 long bow gigantic fire field , thief can do choking gas while in stealth, no reveal, no effect from blind, so is caltrop, ranger traps, signet of spike, etc etc. last time I checked, block, invul, dodge aegis doesn’t stop condi ticking, retaliation don’t retaliate on condi dmg, and confusion don’t confuse condi ticks. Nice abet has fixed all these bugs.

block, invul, dodge, ageis don’t stop conditon ticking= true
they do stop the application, so you still have to remove blind/aegis before you can apply conditions or wait out dodges. Same as with power damage except conditions are delayed damage.
retaliation and confusion cause damage when the condition class person is using abilites just the same as power.
You don’t seem to understand and i doubt you will understand considering your name.

Blind works against marks, just no the transfer mark(#4) btw, also works vs signet of spite(not spike). Blind is the main reason i can fight a necro as an engineer(i don’t run automated response) without instantly dying
Warrior fire field, chokeing gas is not really affected by blind no cause they are pulsing aoe fields.

Fire field , choking gas, caltrop, traps…are how condi does dmg, ofc how these condi and boons work is the same for both condi and direct dmg, but again you are missing the whole point, " condi is not or less affected by them because the way condi works" , retaliation works both on condi and direct attck by returning % of direct dmg, but not condi dmg, condi build is almost not affected buy it. Confusing works when you actively attacking or dodging, both affect zerker more since its their only main source of dmg and zerker has no option to tank the dmg. The point is all these condi , boons affect direct dmg much much more than condi build, some don’t affect condi at all, which is what op is asking about. If your argument is the way these boons and condi works is the same u are trolling the wrong thread.
And you sure your engi don’t inst-die is not because of AR?

imo condi vs power is balanced and if anything, power currently has upper hand.

just “moar numbers” crowd cant tolerate anything but their burst popping on the screen

noobftw.9654:

Fire field , choking gas, caltrop, traps…are how condi does dmg, ofc how these condi and boons work is the same for both condi and direct dmg, but again you are missing the whole point, " condi is not or less affected by them because the way condi works" , retaliation works both on condi and direct attck by returning % of direct dmg, but not condi dmg, condi build is almost not affected buy it. Confusing works when you actively attacking or dodging, both affect zerker more since its their only main source of dmg and zerker has no option to tank the dmg. The point is all these condi , boons affect direct dmg much much more than condi build, some don’t affect condi at all, which is what op is asking about. If your argument is the way these boons and condi works is the same u are trolling the wrong thread.
And you sure your engi don’t inst-die is not because of AR?

Retaliation does not reflect a % of power damage, you not knowing this makes you either clueless or complete beginner to the game. Retaliation damage is based of the Power of the target.
Confusion affects condition builds just as much as they use abilities just as much as a power class, confusion is the bane for all engineers for example..
Only condition and boon that really don’t matter vs conditions is protection and weakness.
The more you speak the more obvious it is that you are completely clueless and seem to have no idea how the game mechanics work

Vuh.1328:

noobftw.9654:

Fire field , choking gas, caltrop, traps…are how condi does dmg, ofc how these condi and boons work is the same for both condi and direct dmg, but again you are missing the whole point, " condi is not or less affected by them because the way condi works" , retaliation works both on condi and direct attck by returning % of direct dmg, but not condi dmg, condi build is almost not affected buy it. Confusing works when you actively attacking or dodging, both affect zerker more since its their only main source of dmg and zerker has no option to tank the dmg. The point is all these condi , boons affect direct dmg much much more than condi build, some don’t affect condi at all, which is what op is asking about. If your argument is the way these boons and condi works is the same u are trolling the wrong thread.
And you sure your engi don’t inst-die is not because of AR?

Retaliation does not reflect a % of power damage, you not knowing this makes you either clueless or complete beginner to the game. Retaliation damage is based of the Power of the target.
Confusion affects condition builds just as much as they use abilities just as much as a power class, confusion is the bane for all engineers for example..
Only condition and boon that really don’t matter vs conditions is protection and weakness.
The more you speak the more obvious it is that you are completely clueless and seem to have no idea how the game mechanics work

Power dmg is not based on power? Retal is based on power, no?
You are still missing the point, retal, confusion matter less to condi vs direct dmg since they punish active game play which is the only source of dmg for zerker. For blind there are many types of dmg dealers not affected by it they all happen to be in the sleeve of condi, and it does affect condi ticking, so is aegis, blocking, invul. The point is tho the way these mechanism works is the same for both they happen to affect direct dmg more than condi dmg. Only thing that can mitigate condi dmg ticking is cleanse, or if you have huge hp pool which is normally not available for zerker. Ticking contribute huge part of dmg from condi so condi is less or not affected by most of dmg mitigators is it not true? Drop you dry pride and noob calling and try to go back to the topic will ya?

noobftw.9654:

Vuh.1328:

noobftw.9654:

Fire field , choking gas, caltrop, traps…are how condi does dmg, ofc how these condi and boons work is the same for both condi and direct dmg, but again you are missing the whole point, " condi is not or less affected by them because the way condi works" , retaliation works both on condi and direct attck by returning % of direct dmg, but not condi dmg, condi build is almost not affected buy it. Confusing works when you actively attacking or dodging, both affect zerker more since its their only main source of dmg and zerker has no option to tank the dmg. The point is all these condi , boons affect direct dmg much much more than condi build, some don’t affect condi at all, which is what op is asking about. If your argument is the way these boons and condi works is the same u are trolling the wrong thread.
And you sure your engi don’t inst-die is not because of AR?

Retaliation does not reflect a % of power damage, you not knowing this makes you either clueless or complete beginner to the game. Retaliation damage is based of the Power of the target.
Confusion affects condition builds just as much as they use abilities just as much as a power class, confusion is the bane for all engineers for example..
Only condition and boon that really don’t matter vs conditions is protection and weakness.
The more you speak the more obvious it is that you are completely clueless and seem to have no idea how the game mechanics work

Power dmg is not based on power? Retal is based on power, no?
You are still missing the point, retal, confusion matter less to condi vs direct dmg since they punish active game play which is the only source of dmg for zerker. For blind there are many types of dmg dealers not affected by it they all happen to be in the sleeve of condi, and it does affect condi ticking, so is aegis, blocking, invul. The point is tho the way these mechanism works is the same for both they happen to affect direct dmg more than condi dmg. Only thing that can mitigate condi dmg ticking is cleanse, or if you have huge hp pool which is normally not available for zerker. Ticking contribute huge part of dmg from condi so condi is less or not affected by most of dmg mitigators is it not true? Drop you dry pride and noob calling and try to go back to the topic will ya?

Maybe it would be easier for you to understand if condition damage was renamed to delayed damage, Conditions are just as active to use as power.
Power is based on power yes, still doesn’t change the fact that retaliation does NOT reflect a % of direct damage, the damage is static.

Power class uses burst for 5k.
Target evade/block/invul(not endure pain)- no damage taken

Condition player uses skills to try apply conditions worth 5k damage.
Target evade/block/invul(not endure pain) – no conditions applied=no damage done.

Power class uses ability
Target blinds power class, nothing happens

Condition player uses ability
Target blinds condi class, nothing happens..

Power class uses 5 skills and take kittens of retaliation damage worth 300 each.
Condition class uses 5 skills to apply conditions and also takes kittens of retaliation worth 300 each.

Power class uses a burst ability for 5k.
Target takes 5k damage instantly

Condi class uses ability to apply conditions worth 5k.
Target takes 5k damage over 5-10sec.

Conditions have the advantage in sustained damage in pvp though i’ll admit that since the damage is static and doesn’t revolve around crits and not affected by toughness/protection, so 5stacks of bleed for example always does the same damage. But also the disadvantage they can be cleansed to make up for it. You can not cleanse power damage or be completely immune to power damage for an unlimited time through traits

I’ll admit that burn on crits needs to be changed and necro scepter 1 might be a bit to strong(the poison part) though. Weakness could need a change as well since it’s a bit to devastating for power classes, however it was quite bad before the buff too it so maybe some middle ground?

Fire grab under blind, puny dmg, longbow F1, choking gas, caltrop….. still does full dmg.
Backstab 7k dmg can be fully dodged, Bleeding shot 200ish direct dmg, 1k bleed dmg can be fully dodged too, but wait, next half sec imma bleedshot you again with 1.2kish dmg now dodge that and the next one and the one after that and etc
VS direct dmg when finishing the fight, confusion or retal completely mitigate any more dmg so either you have no more pressure or your opponent is gonna kll himself. But for build relies on condi dmg the pressure is not mitigated by confusion nor boon. Invul, blocking works the same way at end game.
My point is whether condi is op or not or whatever that’s not my point, and I am not arguing condi proc on autoattck should be nerfed, my entire point has been “Condi dmg are less or not affected by most of the boon, condi and dmg mitigators in this game”. Is that simply not a fact? Stop trolling lol.

Conditions are at a huge advantage because of a few things.

Cleanses usually have much longer CD’s then the application effects.
Condition damage requires fewer stats then power.
Conditions are easier to apply.
There aren’t any “big” condition attacks that you can dodge to negate most of the damage, it’s all over little effects.
Condition users can usually just apply their effects then kite.
Power is affected by Weakness, Conditions are not.
Power is affected by Protection, Conditions are not.
Power is affected by Toughness, Conditions are not.
Most big power attacks are melee while Conditions are ranged.
Conditions continue to deal damage if you are stealthed, out of sight, or out of range, but Power will not.
Conditions gain much more effectiveness from each point of Condition Duration vs Power with either Precision or Crit Damage
Conditions have access to way more control effects then power does.

There’s probably more I can’t think of.

noobftw.9654:

Fire grab under blind, puny dmg, longbow F1, choking gas, caltrop….. still does full dmg.
Backstab 7k dmg can be fully dodged, Bleeding shot 200ish direct dmg, 1k bleed dmg can be fully dodged too, but wait, next half sec imma bleedshot you again with 1.2kish dmg now dodge that and the next one and the one after that and etc
VS direct dmg when finishing the fight, confusion or retal completely mitigate any more dmg so either you have no more pressure or your opponent is gonna kll himself. But for build relies on condi dmg the pressure is not mitigated by confusion nor boon. Invul, blocking works the same way at end game.
My point is whether condi is op or not or whatever that’s not my point, and I am not arguing condi proc on autoattck should be nerfed, my entire point has been “Condi dmg are less or not affected by most of the boon, condi and dmg mitigators in this game”. Is that simply not a fact? Stop trolling lol.

I’m not trolling, i’m just correcting your mouth diarrhea of false information.

Choking gas, poison field from grenades, longbow f1 all do pretty minimal damage, but still useful for power classes which might be the real issue.
So if you dodge a bleeind attack which adds bleed worth of 1.2k damage and then next bleeding attack hits you worth 1.2k damage, how is that different from an auto attack crit for 1-3k+ from a power class?
And yes confusion is just as strong vs power specs as vs condition specs, in fact confusion is the bane of engineers.
Retal also hurts any class that relies on multiple hits(grenades for example) equally much, condition or power doesn’t matter.

I’ll stop replying to you when you actually stop spreading lies or just talk about mechanics you have no idea how they work

Vuh.1328:

noobftw.9654:

Fire grab under blind, puny dmg, longbow F1, choking gas, caltrop….. still does full dmg.
Backstab 7k dmg can be fully dodged, Bleeding shot 200ish direct dmg, 1k bleed dmg can be fully dodged too, but wait, next half sec imma bleedshot you again with 1.2kish dmg now dodge that and the next one and the one after that and etc
VS direct dmg when finishing the fight, confusion or retal completely mitigate any more dmg so either you have no more pressure or your opponent is gonna kll himself. But for build relies on condi dmg the pressure is not mitigated by confusion nor boon. Invul, blocking works the same way at end game.
My point is whether condi is op or not or whatever that’s not my point, and I am not arguing condi proc on autoattck should be nerfed, my entire point has been “Condi dmg are less or not affected by most of the boon, condi and dmg mitigators in this game”. Is that simply not a fact? Stop trolling lol.

I’m not trolling, i’m just correcting your mouth diarrhea of false information.

Choking gas, poison field from grenades, longbow f1 all do pretty minimal damage, but still useful for power classes which might be the real issue.
So if you dodge a bleeind attack which adds bleed worth of 1.2k damage and then next bleeding attack hits you worth 1.2k damage, how is that different from an auto attack crit for 1-3k+ from a power class?
And yes confusion is just as strong vs power specs as vs condition specs, in fact confusion is the bane of engineers.
Retal also hurts any class that relies on multiple hits(grenades for example) equally much, condition or power doesn’t matter.

I’ll stop replying to you when you actually stop spreading lies or just talk about mechanics you have no idea how they work

What lies are you referring to? That F1 longbow do minimal dmg? that caltrops do minimal dmg?
lol, again, what I said is protection doesn’t affect condi build, so is weakness and many other condi, boon and game mechanism affect less or none to condi game play is that false?
Stop trolling and spreading your lies. Confusion retaliation affect the same to attack that applies condi and direct dmg but it doesn’t mean confusion retaliation have the same effect on condi game play and direct dmg game play. So is blind, invul, blocking. Please stop replying until you get this fact right.

Ryld.1340:

Cleanses usually have much longer CD’s then the application effects.
Conditions are easier to apply.
Condition users can usually just apply their effects then kite.
Conditions continue to deal damage if you are stealthed, out of sight, or out of range, but Power will not.

I’m just going to address these four points here. I am no expert PvP player, but I do have strong knowledge of how the game actually works.

1. This also must be the case. To prevent combat from being stagnant, any offense must be stronger than its respective defense. Otherwise you end up with a situation where at least one player is completely wasting their time. This was a serious problem for condition builds during the D/D ele heyday, as they literally could not apply their conditions fast enough to do anything at all to the ele. The condition cleansing did need to get nerfed, though I agree it went a little too far (not much though, as eles do still have strong condition removal abilities).

It is also the case with Power builds. The “cleanses” (blocks, evades, heals etc., which are all equally as effective against conditions if used correctly) have longer cooldowns than the attacks. Protection rarely has 100% uptime (Hammer Guardians are the exception), and won’t be reducing all of the power damage dealt.

2. Power damage is just as easy to apply as conditions, actually. There may be a couple of extra defenses (such as projectile blocking, though that stops most Ranger and Engineer conditions), but realistically, both are applicable in the same circumstances. Yes, condition damage has a few more projectile-less skills, but Power has its fair share as well.

3. Same can be said to Power builds. The only difference is why they’re kiting. A Power build would unload its damage and then kite to wait for cooldowns before going in again. A condition build is kiting to allow the damage they already dealt to actually be applied.

4. Not exactly. When conditions are ticking, the attack has already been done. All that is happening is the damage has yet to all come in. If you LoS a condi build, they can do just as little to you as a power build can. What you are experiencing when you run away like that is what they have already done to you.

Really, the reason so many people are upset with condition damage is that they don’t see their health getting chunked, so they stay involved for longer than they should, not realizing that they are actually taking a lot of damage. If you don’t believe me, time yourself in how long you stay against a dangerous power build and how long you stay against a dangerous condition build. I can almost guarantee you stay in combat with the condition build for a significantly longer period of time. This is what is getting you killed.