Guild Wars 2

I’m new to GW2, though i played GW1, recently have been playing SWTOR and WoW an just came back… and I’m having some issues deciding which class to push to end game first so i thought id get some opinions on the strengths and weaknesses of them and what to expect at end game.

I have now brought up an ele, a ranger, and a mes to about lvl 30, and i was hoping to get some pros/cons from the perspective on PVP and some PVE as well, though mainly i PVP a lot at end game.

I’m not really a FOTM/OP class player, i like to have some challenge, but be able to be effective and/or competitive.

Opinions appreciated.

Currently d/x eles and any type of mesmer is really strong at all levels of play, rangers are a bit underwhelming at high levels of play, but they’re really easy to pick up and be effective with at lower levels of play (your first couple of months or so).

Mesmer is really good right now with several viable builds. Take domination, dueling, and a greatsword and you’re all set, the last trait line is just for either some extra support/sustain/survivability. The condi shatter builds are also pretty decent with carrion too. Don’t play the faceroll mantra builds though, it’ll keep you from getting better since the stunlock mantra won’t teach you how to shatter at the right time and it’ll probably get nerfed anyway. Playing mantras would just make it harder for you to learn how to be a good mesmer.

Elementalist is another very good class. The best builds are sustain based builds either cele D/D (fire OR earth, then water/arc) or cele staff (earth water arc). You provide alot of sustain, can hold points fairly well, and support your allies while dealing pretty high damage. Right now the burn damage from ring of fire and dreakes breath is really strong and fire traits give you tons of might.

Ranger, probably the worst class in pvp atm but its not terrible. The power longbow builds require expert posititoning, kiting, and knowing when and how to use the GS. Basically if you get focused, run away, its the only way to survive. Power ranger is also map dependent. It sucks on forest of nifhel, but its great on legacy of the foefire. The condi builds (either trap or survival) are excellent in 1v1s due to condis being strong there, but signet necro builds will end you and make your life useless in pvp. The build is strong in smaller fights, but it can be focus fired very easily in teamfights.

I hope this info helps.

nearlight.3064:

Mesmer is really good right now with several viable builds. Take domination, dueling, and a greatsword and you’re all set, the last trait line is just for either some extra support/sustain/survivability. The condi shatter builds are also pretty decent with carrion too. Don’t play the faceroll mantra builds though, it’ll keep you from getting better since the stunlock mantra won’t teach you how to shatter at the right time and it’ll probably get nerfed anyway. Playing mantras would just make it harder for you to learn how to be a good mesmer.

“A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.”

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Play to win. Use everything at your disposal. Be a truly good gamer.

This goes for every class, in every game, for all time.

nearlight.3064:

Mesmer is really good right now with several viable builds. Take domination, dueling, and a greatsword and you’re all set, the last trait line is just for either some extra support/sustain/survivability. The condi shatter builds are also pretty decent with carrion too. Don’t play the faceroll mantra builds though, it’ll keep you from getting better since the stunlock mantra won’t teach you how to shatter at the right time and it’ll probably get nerfed anyway. Playing mantras would just make it harder for you to learn how to be a good mesmer.

Elementalist is another very good class. The best builds are sustain based builds either cele D/D (fire OR earth, then water/arc) or cele staff (earth water arc). You provide alot of sustain, can hold points fairly well, and support your allies while dealing pretty high damage. Right now the burn damage from ring of fire and dreakes breath is really strong and fire traits give you tons of might.

Ranger, probably the worst class in pvp atm but its not terrible. The power longbow builds require expert posititoning, kiting, and knowing when and how to use the GS. Basically if you get focused, run away, its the only way to survive. Power ranger is also map dependent. It sucks on forest of nifhel, but its great on legacy of the foefire. The condi builds (either trap or survival) are excellent in 1v1s due to condis being strong there, but signet necro builds will end you and make your life useless in pvp. The build is strong in smaller fights, but it can be focus fired very easily in teamfights.

I hope this info helps.

I share the same sentiment about these 3 profs, and im an expert ranger playing at the top MMR. in fact I don’t play other profs much. ive basically hit a wall in my progression when facing top players in this game – mesmers and cele d/d eles make my ranger completely irrelevant, especially after the Beastly Warden nerfs. I can hold my own in some games, but a good Mesmer or d/d ele will always be a stronger choice.

the only prof right now that’s in a worse shape than the ranger is probably the engie, but that doesn’t make me feel better.

Ross Biddle.2367:

nearlight.3064:

Mesmer is really good right now with several viable builds. Take domination, dueling, and a greatsword and you’re all set, the last trait line is just for either some extra support/sustain/survivability. The condi shatter builds are also pretty decent with carrion too. Don’t play the faceroll mantra builds though, it’ll keep you from getting better since the stunlock mantra won’t teach you how to shatter at the right time and it’ll probably get nerfed anyway. Playing mantras would just make it harder for you to learn how to be a good mesmer.

“A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.”

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Play to win. Use everything at your disposal. Be a truly good gamer.

This goes for every class, in every game, for all time.

Makes me wonder, if people read before they respond.
Guy said to don’t play with Mantras because they make it ‘too easy’, and due to that it’s harder to learn how to play Mesmer properly. While learning playing certain profession you always should avoid ‘faceroll’ mechanics at beginning, which may be nefed soon and pick them once you ‘l2p’…

If you get used to something thats ‘too easy/faceroll’ without learning how to play without it… and it will be nerfed soon, you will be unable to play your profession properly.

Morwath.9817:

Ross Biddle.2367:

nearlight.3064:

Mesmer is really good right now with several viable builds. Take domination, dueling, and a greatsword and you’re all set, the last trait line is just for either some extra support/sustain/survivability. The condi shatter builds are also pretty decent with carrion too. Don’t play the faceroll mantra builds though, it’ll keep you from getting better since the stunlock mantra won’t teach you how to shatter at the right time and it’ll probably get nerfed anyway. Playing mantras would just make it harder for you to learn how to be a good mesmer.

Exactly, the mantra build makes landing your shatters way too easy, and its the most likely candidate to get nerfed in the mesmer’s current kit. Play PU zerk, and it will teach you proper gameplay and burst that doesn’t involve instantcast stuns that require twitch relfexes and dumb luck to avoid.

“A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.”

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Play to win. Use everything at your disposal. Be a truly good gamer.

This goes for every class, in every game, for all time.

Makes me wonder, if people read before they respond.
Guy said to don’t play with Mantras because they make it ‘too easy’, and due to that it’s harder to learn how to play Mesmer properly. While learning playing certain profession you always should avoid ‘faceroll’ mechanics at beginning, which may be nefed soon and pick them once you ‘l2p’…

If you get used to something thats ‘too easy/faceroll’ without learning how to play without it… and it will be nerfed soon, you will be unable to play your profession properly.

Exactly, the mantra makes it so you can always land your shatter. It straightup carries bad players that don’t know how to time their bursts without it up.

Morwath.9817:

Ross Biddle.2367:

nearlight.3064:

Mesmer is really good right now with several viable builds. Take domination, dueling, and a greatsword and you’re all set, the last trait line is just for either some extra support/sustain/survivability. The condi shatter builds are also pretty decent with carrion too. Don’t play the faceroll mantra builds though, it’ll keep you from getting better since the stunlock mantra won’t teach you how to shatter at the right time and it’ll probably get nerfed anyway. Playing mantras would just make it harder for you to learn how to be a good mesmer.

“A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.”

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Play to win. Use everything at your disposal. Be a truly good gamer.

This goes for every class, in every game, for all time.

Makes me wonder, if people read before they respond.
Guy said to don’t play with Mantras because they make it ‘too easy’, and due to that it’s harder to learn how to play Mesmer properly. While learning playing certain profession you always should avoid ‘faceroll’ mechanics at beginning, which may be nefed soon and pick them once you ‘l2p’…

If you get used to something thats ‘too easy/faceroll’ without learning how to play without it… and it will be nerfed soon, you will be unable to play your profession properly.

Holy irony, Batman!

1. nearlight.3064 clearly communicated his scrub status.
2. Ross Biddle.2367 quoted him directly along with the definition of what a scrub is.
3. You proceeded to suppose upon Ross Biddle.2367 not having actually read the message of nearlight.3064 which he directly quoted with relevant citation.
4. You clearly communicated your own scrub status in agreement with that of nearlight.3064.

I’m not a kittening scrub. I’m a very experienced mesmer who played during the dark days before a month ago. I owned without the mantras back then, and I continue to own without them now, while level 2 newly created mesmers look up the mantra shatter build on metabattle, and smash their face on to their keyboard, licking the mouse for good measure and own because the combination of the mantra with CS means they don’t have to juke or bait cooldowns/dodges to land a burst.

I think I’m correct to be kittened about this, since it makes mesmer too easy for bad players.

nearlight.3064:

I’m not a kittening scrub. I’m a very experienced mesmer who played during the dark days before a month ago. I owned without the mantras back then, and I continue to own without them now, while level 2 newly created mesmers look up the mantra shatter build on metabattle, and smash their face on to their keyboard, licking the mouse for good measure and own because the combination of the mantra with CS means they don’t have to juke or bait cooldowns/dodges to land a burst.

I think I’m correct to be kittened about this, since it makes mesmer too easy for bad players.

Stating you are not a scrub while refusing to understand or acknowledge what a scrub is all the while explaining how you are a scrub and declaring your disapproval of new or inexperienced players who aren’t scrubs is altogether ironic.

@nearlight.3064
Why would you care if RandomNobody.7685 calls you scrub in internet? His opinions means nothing, since it’s only his opinion. Just ignore those guys, ‘discussing’ with them is pointless.

Morwath.9817:

@nearlight.3064
Why would you care if RandomNobody.7685 calls you scrub in internet? His opinions means nothing, since it’s only his opinion. Just ignore those guys, ‘discussing’ with them is pointless.

Because my pride is my biggest weakness. Thats basically it. But you’re right, I have nothing to prove to him or anybody else.

I’m right and their wrong, and the opinions of many top veteran pvp mesmers back up my point.

Ross Biddle.2367:

nearlight.3064:

Mesmer is really good right now with several viable builds. Take domination, dueling, and a greatsword and you’re all set, the last trait line is just for either some extra support/sustain/survivability. The condi shatter builds are also pretty decent with carrion too. Don’t play the faceroll mantra builds though, it’ll keep you from getting better since the stunlock mantra won’t teach you how to shatter at the right time and it’ll probably get nerfed anyway. Playing mantras would just make it harder for you to learn how to be a good mesmer.

“A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.”

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Play to win. Use everything at your disposal. Be a truly good gamer.

This goes for every class, in every game, for all time.

Quoted for truth.

nearlight.3064:

Morwath.9817:

@nearlight.3064
Why would you care if RandomNobody.7685 calls you scrub in internet? His opinions means nothing, since it’s only his opinion. Just ignore those guys, ‘discussing’ with them is pointless.

Because my pride is my biggest weakness. Thats basically it. But you’re right, I have nothing to prove to him or anybody else.

I’m right and their wrong, and the opinions of many top veteran pvp mesmers back up my point.

If opinions mean nothing the both of these opinions defending yourself, and directing to the opinions of “top veteran pvp mesmers” are also equally meaningless. Either opinions can obtain a measure of weight and meaning or they can’t. You can’t have it both ways :/

Cons:

Mesmer: unless running insp mantra condi cleanse shatter , heavy condi burst messes them up

Ele: anything condi heavy after leaving water hinders them completely and strict burst damage

Ranger: everything, really you can just play bad and beat rangers in pvp with most meta builds – they are really bad shape as a class

Pros:

Mesmer: burst damage, group utility, portals, aoe heals even, stuns for team burst setups , etc

Ele: cleansing, healing, great team dmg , great soft cc application for teams to train players, great combo fields, might generation, fiery greatsword for mobility and taking down lord, etc

Ranger: rapid fire in legacy? i guess? thief, mesmer will just train you since they have port which will probably put you out of the team fight almost instantly. greatsword for decent mobility but nothing else that’s really special.

Floplag.4032:

I’m new to GW2, though i played GW1, recently have been playing SWTOR and WoW an just came back… and I’m having some issues deciding which class to push to end game first so i thought id get some opinions on the strengths and weaknesses of them and what to expect at end game.

I have now brought up an ele, a ranger, and a mes to about lvl 30, and i was hoping to get some pros/cons from the perspective on PVP and some PVE as well, though mainly i PVP a lot at end game.

I’m not really a FOTM/OP class player, i like to have some challenge, but be able to be effective and/or competitive.

Opinions appreciated.

Why don’t you just pvp with them instead of wasting time in PvE if you mostly play PvP endgame anyways? You don’t need to level them up for PvP – you should know that coming from GW1, right? ^^’

If you want to know how the classes are overall played, not just in the current meta, here’s a quick rundown.

Ele: Mostly played as a sustainable char, often roaming and aiming for 1v1’s (D/D-Ele). Other variants are more teamfight-oriented (Staff-Ele). Especially D/D-Ele’s are jack of all trades, good survival, support, dps, mobility. Currently, D/D-Ele is looked at to be too strong, but based on the skills, it’s greatest weakness are probably teamfights. (long channels that are easily interrupted, melee-only and kinda squishy if targeted by a whole team with enough CC).

Mesmer: Very mobile and high DPS, CC and Burst, but very squishy an reliant on defensive CD’s like stealth and teleports. IMHO very interesting and fun to play since the new powerblock. Not very good at 1v1’s and as said, very squishy, other than that an absolute monster. You’ll most likely roam to set up good portals and try and outnumber and quickly spike sth. down and/or give DPS and CC in teamfights while trying to stay alive, so good positioning is very important.

Ranger: Currently not played in high competetive games, but I think trap-ranger has potential, because it offers things no other class quite offers: Being able to set up traps as counter-stealth play is very good and taunt counters stealth as well and offers tons of CC. There are veriations that are better at node-holding and 1v1’s and some that are not as sustainable but better in teamfights.

That back and forth about scrubs was pretty lame.

It was really cringe worthy. Internet fail for those involved.

Ross Biddle.2367:

nearlight.3064:

Morwath.9817:

@nearlight.3064
Why would you care if RandomNobody.7685 calls you scrub in internet? His opinions means nothing, since it’s only his opinion. Just ignore those guys, ‘discussing’ with them is pointless.

Because my pride is my biggest weakness. Thats basically it. But you’re right, I have nothing to prove to him or anybody else.

I’m right and their wrong, and the opinions of many top veteran pvp mesmers back up my point.

If opinions mean nothing the both of these opinions defending yourself, and directing to the opinions of “top veteran pvp mesmers” are also equally meaningless. Either opinions can obtain a measure of weight and meaning or they can’t. You can’t have it both ways :/

You rudely insulted me as a player just because I beleive the mantra builds are too cheesy. And go to any streamer and they’ll tell you the same thing. I’m just defending my credibility as a player.

nearlight.3064:

Ross Biddle.2367:

nearlight.3064:

Morwath.9817:

@nearlight.3064
Why would you care if RandomNobody.7685 calls you scrub in internet? His opinions means nothing, since it’s only his opinion. Just ignore those guys, ‘discussing’ with them is pointless.

Because my pride is my biggest weakness. Thats basically it. But you’re right, I have nothing to prove to him or anybody else.

I’m right and their wrong, and the opinions of many top veteran pvp mesmers back up my point.

If opinions mean nothing the both of these opinions defending yourself, and directing to the opinions of “top veteran pvp mesmers” are also equally meaningless. Either opinions can obtain a measure of weight and meaning or they can’t. You can’t have it both ways :/

You rudely insulted me as a player just because I believe the mantra builds are too cheesy. And go to any streamer and they’ll tell you the same thing. I’m just defending my credibility as a player.

I was discussing game philosophy and disagreeing with your assessment. If you took offense that’s on you. I wasn’t rude, I didn’t call you any bad names. If your credibility as a player was in jeopardy it wasn’t because I was drawing any attention to it.

Also I’m not sure how streaming is some sort of credential. I know plenty of great players who stream/record, I know plenty that don’t, and they differ in the opinion you’ve presented. Playing to win is a long standing philosophy many competitive gamers adhere to and expound, either because they’re read it or adopted it naturally as a faucet of reality. You should give the entire book a read, it’s free and would do you good.

Ross Biddle.2367:

nearlight.3064:

Mesmer is really good right now with several viable builds. Take domination, dueling, and a greatsword and you’re all set, the last trait line is just for either some extra support/sustain/survivability. The condi shatter builds are also pretty decent with carrion too. Don’t play the faceroll mantra builds though, it’ll keep you from getting better since the stunlock mantra won’t teach you how to shatter at the right time and it’ll probably get nerfed anyway. Playing mantras would just make it harder for you to learn how to be a good mesmer.

“A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.”

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Play to win. Use everything at your disposal. Be a truly good gamer.

This goes for every class, in every game, for all time.

Is it okay to throw someone who is just sitting there blocking?

PowerBottom.5796:

Mesmer: Very mobile and high DPS, CC and Burst, but very squishy an reliant on defensive CD’s like stealth and teleports. IMHO very interesting and fun to play since the new powerblock. Not very good at 1v1’s and as said, very squishy, other than that an absolute monster. You’ll most likely roam to set up good portals and try and outnumber and quickly spike sth. down and/or give DPS and CC in teamfights while trying to stay alive, so good positioning is very important.

Mesmer squishy? Strange, that is not the game I have been playing. PU+mass invis, torch, decoy, veil I suppose. Sword 2. Distortion. Maybe in some alternate world they are squishy, but not in the current incarnation of GW2.

And not very good at 1 vs 1? Is there any profession that is currently better at 1 vs 1 than a mesmer?

Ross Biddle.2367:

nearlight.3064:

Ross Biddle.2367:

nearlight.3064:

Morwath.9817:

@nearlight.3064
Why would you care if RandomNobody.7685 calls you scrub in internet? His opinions means nothing, since it’s only his opinion. Just ignore those guys, ‘discussing’ with them is pointless.

Because my pride is my biggest weakness. Thats basically it. But you’re right, I have nothing to prove to him or anybody else.

I’m right and their wrong, and the opinions of many top veteran pvp mesmers back up my point.

If opinions mean nothing the both of these opinions defending yourself, and directing to the opinions of “top veteran pvp mesmers” are also equally meaningless. Either opinions can obtain a measure of weight and meaning or they can’t. You can’t have it both ways :/

You rudely insulted me as a player just because I believe the mantra builds are too cheesy. And go to any streamer and they’ll tell you the same thing. I’m just defending my credibility as a player.

I was discussing game philosophy and disagreeing with your assessment. If you took offense that’s on you. I wasn’t rude, I didn’t call you any bad names. If your credibility as a player was in jeopardy it wasn’t because I was drawing any attention to it.

Also I’m not sure how streaming is some sort of credential. I know plenty of great players who stream/record, I know plenty that don’t, and they differ in the opinion you’ve presented. Playing to win is a long standing philosophy many competitive gamers adhere to and expound, either because they’re read it or adopted it naturally as a faucet of reality. You should give the entire book a read, it’s free and would do you good.

Well to clarify, I meant streamers that are top pvp players who have placed well in many tournaments.

I just don’t like being called a scrub okay. Thats all.

nearlight.3064:

Ross Biddle.2367:

nearlight.3064:

Ross Biddle.2367:

nearlight.3064:

Morwath.9817:

@nearlight.3064
Why would you care if RandomNobody.7685 calls you scrub in internet? His opinions means nothing, since it’s only his opinion. Just ignore those guys, ‘discussing’ with them is pointless.

Because my pride is my biggest weakness. Thats basically it. But you’re right, I have nothing to prove to him or anybody else.

I’m right and their wrong, and the opinions of many top veteran pvp mesmers back up my point.

If opinions mean nothing the both of these opinions defending yourself, and directing to the opinions of “top veteran pvp mesmers” are also equally meaningless. Either opinions can obtain a measure of weight and meaning or they can’t. You can’t have it both ways :/

You rudely insulted me as a player just because I believe the mantra builds are too cheesy. And go to any streamer and they’ll tell you the same thing. I’m just defending my credibility as a player.

I was discussing game philosophy and disagreeing with your assessment. If you took offense that’s on you. I wasn’t rude, I didn’t call you any bad names. If your credibility as a player was in jeopardy it wasn’t because I was drawing any attention to it.

Also I’m not sure how streaming is some sort of credential. I know plenty of great players who stream/record, I know plenty that don’t, and they differ in the opinion you’ve presented. Playing to win is a long standing philosophy many competitive gamers adhere to and expound, either because they’re read it or adopted it naturally as a faucet of reality. You should give the entire book a read, it’s free and would do you good.

Well to clarify, I meant streamers that are top pvp players who have placed well in many tournaments.

I just don’t like being called a scrub okay. Thats all.

You’re have the option to be in complete control of who you are, and how you’re going to develop as a gamer

Ross Biddle.2367:

nearlight.3064:

Mesmer is really good right now with several viable builds. Take domination, dueling, and a greatsword and you’re all set, the last trait line is just for either some extra support/sustain/survivability. The condi shatter builds are also pretty decent with carrion too. Don’t play the faceroll mantra builds though, it’ll keep you from getting better since the stunlock mantra won’t teach you how to shatter at the right time and it’ll probably get nerfed anyway. Playing mantras would just make it harder for you to learn how to be a good mesmer.

“A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.”

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Play to win. Use everything at your disposal. Be a truly good gamer.

This goes for every class, in every game, for all time.

If we use your logic, then people who beat a hard-core action game by using invincible exploit would be the good players lol. However everyone will disagree with you because the one who truly deserved the phrase of being a good player is those who beat the game with an unleveled character. (Best example is some people beating Dark Souls without leveling it up. You can use exploit to max out your level for easy mode, but everyone will actually laugh at you)

I’d say only scrubs resort to any means to win (like cheating) because they can’t win without OP or broken stuffs.

A truly good player will win with skills, not broken stuffs to carry them.

Velimere.7685:

Morwath.9817:

Ross Biddle.2367:

nearlight.3064:

Mesmer is really good right now with several viable builds. Take domination, dueling, and a greatsword and you’re all set, the last trait line is just for either some extra support/sustain/survivability. The condi shatter builds are also pretty decent with carrion too. Don’t play the faceroll mantra builds though, it’ll keep you from getting better since the stunlock mantra won’t teach you how to shatter at the right time and it’ll probably get nerfed anyway. Playing mantras would just make it harder for you to learn how to be a good mesmer.

“A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.”

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Play to win. Use everything at your disposal. Be a truly good gamer.

This goes for every class, in every game, for all time.

Makes me wonder, if people read before they respond.
Guy said to don’t play with Mantras because they make it ‘too easy’, and due to that it’s harder to learn how to play Mesmer properly. While learning playing certain profession you always should avoid ‘faceroll’ mechanics at beginning, which may be nefed soon and pick them once you ‘l2p’…

If you get used to something thats ‘too easy/faceroll’ without learning how to play without it… and it will be nerfed soon, you will be unable to play your profession properly.

Holy irony, Batman!

1. nearlight.3064 clearly communicated his scrub status.
2. Ross Biddle.2367 quoted him directly along with the definition of what a scrub is.
3. You proceeded to suppose upon Ross Biddle.2367 not having actually read the message of nearlight.3064 which he directly quoted with relevant citation.
4. You clearly communicated your own scrub status in agreement with that of nearlight.3064.

What you fail to understand is that he doesn’t refute the scrub statements, nor did he say that it was wrong to play to win
HOWEVER, Playing a class for the first times with skills that acts like a crutch (mantra) is actually a very wrong way to learn.
Ross read and had his own understanding of the message and replied accordingly with a relevant text, which was, then, refuted by the OP of said message with a relevant explanation.
They both are right. Playing with limits intent on respecting a personnal code of honor that isn’t largely viewed by the community is akin to shooting yourself in the foot, and that person is a scrub.
However learning a class with skills that is there to make your playstyle easier will encourage any newcomer to fall into a lazy state of mind that will not make him watch and properly learn to time his burst. He’ll learn the class wrongly and base his experience on a very wobbly ground that will simply crumble if mantra ever becomes non viable.
It’s better for him to start playing the hard way and, once he has a decent grasp of the basic that makes mesmer what it is, incorporate tools that will facilitate his play. Will be less hard if he has to adapt in the future.

Pepsi.8907:

Velimere.7685:

Morwath.9817:

Ross Biddle.2367:

nearlight.3064:

Mesmer is really good right now with several viable builds. Take domination, dueling, and a greatsword and you’re all set, the last trait line is just for either some extra support/sustain/survivability. The condi shatter builds are also pretty decent with carrion too. Don’t play the faceroll mantra builds though, it’ll keep you from getting better since the stunlock mantra won’t teach you how to shatter at the right time and it’ll probably get nerfed anyway. Playing mantras would just make it harder for you to learn how to be a good mesmer.

“A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.”

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Play to win. Use everything at your disposal. Be a truly good gamer.

This goes for every class, in every game, for all time.

Makes me wonder, if people read before they respond.
Guy said to don’t play with Mantras because they make it ‘too easy’, and due to that it’s harder to learn how to play Mesmer properly. While learning playing certain profession you always should avoid ‘faceroll’ mechanics at beginning, which may be nefed soon and pick them once you ‘l2p’…

If you get used to something thats ‘too easy/faceroll’ without learning how to play without it… and it will be nerfed soon, you will be unable to play your profession properly.

Holy irony, Batman!

1. nearlight.3064 clearly communicated his scrub status.
2. Ross Biddle.2367 quoted him directly along with the definition of what a scrub is.
3. You proceeded to suppose upon Ross Biddle.2367 not having actually read the message of nearlight.3064 which he directly quoted with relevant citation.
4. You clearly communicated your own scrub status in agreement with that of nearlight.3064.

What you fail to understand is that he doesn’t refute the scrub statements, nor did he say that it was wrong to play to win
HOWEVER, Playing a class for the first times with skills that acts like a crutch (mantra) is actually a very wrong way to learn.
Ross read and had his own understanding of the message and replied accordingly with a relevant text, which was, then, refuted by the OP of said message with a relevant explanation.
They both are right. Playing with limits intent on respecting a personnal code of honor that isn’t largely viewed by the community is akin to shooting yourself in the foot, and that person is a scrub.
However learning a class with skills that is there to make your playstyle easier will encourage any newcomer to fall into a lazy state of mind that will not make him watch and properly learn to time his burst. He’ll learn the class wrongly and base his experience on a very wobbly ground that will simply crumble if mantra ever becomes non viable.
It’s better for him to start playing the hard way and, once he has a decent grasp of the basic that makes mesmer what it is, incorporate tools that will facilitate his play. Will be less hard if he has to adapt in the future.

What you fail to understand is that I didn’t communicate anything whatsoever as to him refuting said scrub statements; I did, however, recognize the irony that exists herein and was furthered upon thereafter my own message: Based on communication further down the line, it’s clear that both opposing individuals hold disagreement with the given facts and citation. Furthermore, no evidence stands that isn’t anecdotal in regards to your claims about learning to play the Mesmer class in PvP. Both of these notions of yours depend heavily upon assumption.

A Volcano.2510:

PowerBottom.5796:

Mesmer: Very mobile and high DPS, CC and Burst, but very squishy an reliant on defensive CD’s like stealth and teleports. IMHO very interesting and fun to play since the new powerblock. Not very good at 1v1’s and as said, very squishy, other than that an absolute monster. You’ll most likely roam to set up good portals and try and outnumber and quickly spike sth. down and/or give DPS and CC in teamfights while trying to stay alive, so good positioning is very important.

Mesmer squishy? Strange, that is not the game I have been playing. PU+mass invis, torch, decoy, veil I suppose. Sword 2. Distortion. Maybe in some alternate world they are squishy, but not in the current incarnation of GW2.

And not very good at 1 vs 1? Is there any profession that is currently better at 1 vs 1 than a mesmer?

To clarify, I’m talking about the current meta shatterbuilds (domination and dueling + either inspiration or chaos).

Squishy=/=easy to kill btw. As I’ve stated, mesmer is reliant on defensive CD’s to stay alive, but if you focus/CC them in teamfights, they definitely are easier to kill than many other meta-builds, especially the mesmers that run mantra of distraction and not a second stunbreaker, which many currently do.

And in terms of 1v1’s, I compare them to the builds that are designed to 1v1 and sent into situations where they 1v1, which in the current meta, are mostly D/D-ele’s, cele-necro’s and nade-engi’s. Against all of these builds, you wouldn’t send a mesmer and expect him to win the 1v1.

There are some other specs that can 1v1 though (mostly condition), that’s true. I should’ve been clearer about which mesmer-builds I mean.

Aomine.5012:

Ross Biddle.2367:

nearlight.3064:

Mesmer is really good right now with several viable builds. Take domination, dueling, and a greatsword and you’re all set, the last trait line is just for either some extra support/sustain/survivability. The condi shatter builds are also pretty decent with carrion too. Don’t play the faceroll mantra builds though, it’ll keep you from getting better since the stunlock mantra won’t teach you how to shatter at the right time and it’ll probably get nerfed anyway. Playing mantras would just make it harder for you to learn how to be a good mesmer.

“A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.”

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Play to win. Use everything at your disposal. Be a truly good gamer.

This goes for every class, in every game, for all time.

If we use your logic, then people who beat a hard-core action game by using invincible exploit would be the good players lol. However everyone will disagree with you because the one who truly deserved the phrase of being a good player is those who beat the game with an unleveled character. (Best example is some people beating Dark Souls without leveling it up. You can use exploit to max out your level for easy mode, but everyone will actually laugh at you)

I’d say only scrubs resort to any means to win (like cheating) because they can’t win without OP or broken stuffs.

A truly good player will win with skills, not broken stuffs to carry them.

“What about using the map hack in StarCraft, or a packet interceptor, or a macro to cast your spells faster, or just a swift kick to the shins of your opponent?”

Cheating is covered – It’s two paragraphs.
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/cheating

Ross Biddle.2367:

Aomine.5012:

Ross Biddle.2367:

nearlight.3064:

Mesmer is really good right now with several viable builds. Take domination, dueling, and a greatsword and you’re all set, the last trait line is just for either some extra support/sustain/survivability. The condi shatter builds are also pretty decent with carrion too. Don’t play the faceroll mantra builds though, it’ll keep you from getting better since the stunlock mantra won’t teach you how to shatter at the right time and it’ll probably get nerfed anyway. Playing mantras would just make it harder for you to learn how to be a good mesmer.

“A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.”

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Play to win. Use everything at your disposal. Be a truly good gamer.

This goes for every class, in every game, for all time.

If we use your logic, then people who beat a hard-core action game by using invincible exploit would be the good players lol. However everyone will disagree with you because the one who truly deserved the phrase of being a good player is those who beat the game with an unleveled character. (Best example is some people beating Dark Souls without leveling it up. You can use exploit to max out your level for easy mode, but everyone will actually laugh at you)

I’d say only scrubs resort to any means to win (like cheating) because they can’t win without OP or broken stuffs.

A truly good player will win with skills, not broken stuffs to carry them.

“What about using the map hack in StarCraft, or a packet interceptor, or a macro to cast your spells faster, or just a swift kick to the shins of your opponent?”

Cheating is covered – It’s two paragraphs.
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/cheating

Meaning they’re scrubs. They just don’t know it themselves and think they’re good by relying and depending upon broken stuffs or cheat.

Ross Biddle.2367:

nearlight.3064:

Mesmer is really good right now with several viable builds. Take domination, dueling, and a greatsword and you’re all set, the last trait line is just for either some extra support/sustain/survivability. The condi shatter builds are also pretty decent with carrion too. Don’t play the faceroll mantra builds though, it’ll keep you from getting better since the stunlock mantra won’t teach you how to shatter at the right time and it’ll probably get nerfed anyway. Playing mantras would just make it harder for you to learn how to be a good mesmer.

“A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.”

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Play to win. Use everything at your disposal. Be a truly good gamer.

This goes for every class, in every game, for all time.

Look at you and your edgy self. I don’t know if it occurred to you, but people play games for fun. Another platform exists where you get to try hard and go for the win, although I’m not sure I’d be capable of simplifying it in terms you’d be able to understand. Sweating over using the most powerful triple S rated builds isn’t what maaaaany people define as fun. Also, that website is full of kitten.

To answer the OPs question, elementalist probably deserves most of your time. Their best build is the strongest in the game, hands down. Their other builds are men and aren’t really discussed much. Mesmer is also a good choice since practically any trait combination works. Ranger, on the other hand, is a free lunch for 99% of builds.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Ross Biddle.2367:

nearlight.3064:

Mesmer is really good right now with several viable builds. Take domination, dueling, and a greatsword and you’re all set, the last trait line is just for either some extra support/sustain/survivability. The condi shatter builds are also pretty decent with carrion too. Don’t play the faceroll mantra builds though, it’ll keep you from getting better since the stunlock mantra won’t teach you how to shatter at the right time and it’ll probably get nerfed anyway. Playing mantras would just make it harder for you to learn how to be a good mesmer.

“A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.”

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Play to win. Use everything at your disposal. Be a truly good gamer.

This goes for every class, in every game, for all time.

Look at you and your edgy self. I don’t know if it occurred to you, but people play games for fun. Another platform exists where you get to try hard and go for the win, although I’m not sure I’d be capable of simplifying it in terms you’d be able to understand. Sweating over using the most powerful triple S rated builds isn’t what maaaaany people define as fun. Also, that website is full of kitten.

Fun is covered too. Playing to win generates deeper, more meaningful levels of fun :)

“A common call of the scrub is to cry that the kind of play in which one tries to win at all costs is “boring” or “not fun.” Who knows what objective the scrub has, but we know his objective is not truly to win. Yours is. Your objective is good and right and true, and let no one tell you otherwise. You have the power to dispatch those who would tell you otherwise, anyway. Simply beat them.

Let’s consider two groups of players: a group of good players and a group of scrubs. The scrubs will play “for fun” and not explore the extremities of the game. They won’t find the most effective tactics and abuse them mercilessly. The good players will. The good players will find incredibly overpowering tactics and patterns…..

Let’s return to the group of scrubs. They don’t know the first thing about all the depth I’ve been talking about. Their argument is basically that ignorantly mashing buttons with little regard to actual strategy is more “fun.” Superficially, their argument does at least look valid, since often their games will be more “wet and wild” than games between the experts, which are usually more controlled and refined. But any close examination will reveal that the experts are having a great deal of this “fun” on a higher level than the scrub can even imagine. Throwing together some circus act of a win isn’t nearly as satisfying as reading your opponent’s mind to such a degree that you can counter his every move, even his every counter.

Can you imagine what will happen when the two groups of players meet? The experts will absolutely destroy the scrubs with any number of tactics they’ve either never seen or never been truly forced to counter. This is because the scrubs have not been playing the same game. The experts were playing the actual game while the scrubs were playing their own homemade variant with restricting, unwritten rules."

A Volcano.2510:

And not very good at 1 vs 1? Is there any profession that is currently better at 1 vs 1 than a mesmer?

Engi
Ele
and I think Trap Ranger is still king

Oh no, Ross. Trust me, I read that article. I’ll agree that playing to win is good and all, but when there’s nothing in the line? I don’t really see the point.

Ross Biddle.2367:

“A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.”

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Play to win. Use everything at your disposal. Be a truly good gamer.

This goes for every class, in every game, for all time.

“[…] If you want to win over the long term, then you can’t play every single game as if it were a tournament finals. If you did, you wouldn’t have time for basic R&D, you’d never learn the quirky nuances that show up unexpectedly at tournaments, and you are likely to get stuck honing suboptimal tactics.”
https://sirlin.squarespace.com/ptw-book/love-of-the-game-not-playing-to-win

There’s a difference between playing good and becoming good at playing.

Also, while Playing to Win is an interesting read and there’s much to learn from it, don’t simply tell people to play to win. The book was written for people with the ambition of becoming high level tournament (professional) players in competitive games who are willing to put a majority of time and energy into that endeavor. It’s not for everyone, it’s not for every game and it’s not for all time.

Silinsar.6298:

Ross Biddle.2367:

“A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.”

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Play to win. Use everything at your disposal. Be a truly good gamer.

This goes for every class, in every game, for all time.

“[…] If you want to win over the long term, then you can’t play every single game as if it were a tournament finals. If you did, you wouldn’t have time for basic R&D, you’d never learn the quirky nuances that show up unexpectedly at tournaments, and you are likely to get stuck honing suboptimal tactics.”
https://sirlin.squarespace.com/ptw-book/love-of-the-game-not-playing-to-win

Agree. It’s all part of playing to win.

Silinsar.6298:

Also, while Playing to Win is an interesting read and there’s much to learn from it, don’t simply tell people to play to win. The book was written for people with the ambition of becoming high level tournament (professional) players in competitive games who are willing to put a majority of time and energy into that endeavor. It’s not for everyone, it’s not for every game and it’s not for all time.

Disagree.

There are scrubs, and there are those those who play to win. You’re either on the path to self improvement, or you’re not. There is no caveat that states there’s no practical application for those not engaging in professional tournaments. More’over, the avenues for competitive play extend far beyond platforms that provide cash prizes.