Guild Wars 2

Now I’m new to this game with 74 matches in, but I keep hearing that thieves are only good in “+1” fights.

But when I was doing a match today on my engi, I went to grab a unoccupied node and a pistol/pistol thief jumped me out of stealth. Before I could even fire a skill I was in shrunk form from the Self-Regulating Defensives trait. The instant shrunk worn off I was in downed state, and was easily stomped by said thief.

How do I even begin to fight this? I noticed the thief was running basilisk venom and signet of shadows. I can’t even replicate what happened since after the match I created a thief and the best I could do was a 5 second kill on a medium armor golem.

So how do I fight this. I suppose I would need something to break the basilisk venom, but shoot I hit 25% health in barely a second so I’m not sure it would even matter.

Break venom and dodge, immune, stun the thief, hide behind a pillar, what ever to stop that shooting, it hurts a lot but the theif will be down in 1 or 2 hits as well…

What amulet are you using? Thieves are probably the sole reason berserker amulet is non-viable.

Yeah P/P is pretty nasty. Had a Ranger whisper me that i killed him before his vamp runes could even proc. xD

ok I figured out how he did it. Still not sure how to fight it other than have the world’s most amazing reaction time.
http://i.imgur.com/WjAsEih.gif

Like shoot I played a burst Vanguard in SWTOR and thought I’d seen it all when it came to burst, but kitten .

Erindriel.2351:

What amulet are you using? Thieves are probably the sole reason berserker amulet is non-viable.

I was experimenting with a marauder amulet for that match.

Not to be off topic but could you imagine if ricochet was still around?

I have yet to fight this so I can’t say for sure what a good counter would be on engineer. I would if it were my engi stealth long before he did and pressure him. If you dodge the first round should be a pretty easy win.

Been seeing a lot of p/p thieves around lately, and tried it out a bit my self. Doubt it will go meta because it is such a bad weapon set defensively, and offensively is purely single target. But against that one target it hits like a truck on steroids.

In any case, the answer is simple:

Grab a shield, reflect their 3, watch them die.

The trick to fighting a thief, as an engineer, is you have to realize strictly speaking, they’re mechanically superior. They can put you in situations where you are going to lose and lose badly. However that superiority is fully contingent upon the thief’s player executing those mechanics correctly.

It takes a while to develop it, but eventually you will pick up on certain cues that the thief is about to make a big play. In other words, you have to outwit the other player.

If you know they’re about to come out of stealth and rock you, you do something like:

Drop your Big Old Bomb to interrupt their burst.
Pop Elixir S right before (that’s key) they open up on you, then immediately hit them with say Rifle 4 or your moa elixir immediately after coming out of it. You want them to waste those first 2-3 attacks.
Pop Flamethrower 5 at the last possible second.
In this particular example, shield 4 would be your best weapon. You’d probably have to hit your stun break and then shield 4 immediately to get any use out of it against most thieves but them’s the breaks.
Stealth yourself right before he hits, so he comes out of stealth while you’re still stealthed.

A more general tactic against nearly any kind of thief is realizing that engineers can fight opponents without having to “stand and deliver”. Ironically, the untraited bomb kit is actually one of the greatest anti thief weapons, though it wouldn’t be as good against a P/P thief, it would still work. The reason it’s good is there’s a delay between placing the bomb and having it explode, and since it covers an area, you don’t have to be completely precise, but basically use your Vigor and Adrenal implant etc. to keep dodging around and dropping bombs that will attack him indirectly.

Confusion stacking works great, fwiw.

Finally, Lock On is your friend.

A good thief player who has learned to be unpredictable is just a real terror. However if you play and play and play you’ll eventually learn to spot typical behaviors, and you’ll start to anticipate these things. Once you get that sixth sense of when you’re about to get rekt, thieves… don’t become easy, but it becomes much more even is a good way to put it.

It’s really more about the situational awareness of the player than anything. Engineers are challenging to play because you have to mash a lot of buttons in very particular sequences. You’re so busy playing the interface, it’s hard to have good situational awareness. Once you get used to it somewhat though, your ability to pay attention to other things will improve. It’ll develop, but it’s going to suck for a while.

Also realize that if the thief sets you up right and executes his setup perfectly, well usually he probably deserves to win. There’s just going to be times the thief is going to eat your lunch. Engineer vs. thief really is often a matter of who catches who first. I’ve had matches where a thief and I just obliterated each other brutally, depending entirely on who saw who first.

Erindriel.2351:

What amulet are you using? Thieves are probably the sole reason berserker amulet is non-viable.

You are about 3 months too late with this comment. People don’t run zerker because it lost the vitality. Only higher base vitality professions can possibly make it work.

I met it today and easily kill it with my power Necro :O

For engi, I think tool kit, elixir s or tool belt exilir s is enough to deal with this.

Aomine.5012:

I met it today and easily kill it with my power Necro :O

For engi, I think tool kit, elixir s or tool belt exilir s is enough to deal with this.

The problem with elixir S is that yes it stops the burst, but it also stops me from doing anything, and I just die the moment I come out of it.

was just in a game with a p/p thief on my team. this was a high mmr game, he did just fine. the way I understand it, p/p is for bursting down single targets and leaving. not for skirmishing like d/p, but literally taking a kitten on the guy and leaving. I was mildly impressed.

Crinn.7864:

ok I figured out how he did it. Still not sure how to fight it other than have the world’s most amazing reaction time.
http://i.imgur.com/WjAsEih.gif

Like shoot I played a burst Vanguard in SWTOR and thought I’d seen it all when it came to burst, but kitten .

Erindriel.2351:

What amulet are you using? Thieves are probably the sole reason berserker amulet is non-viable.

I was experimenting with a marauder amulet for that match.

That is not a thief, that is a gunslinger lol

Crinn.7864:

ok I figured out how he did it. Still not sure how to fight it other than have the world’s most amazing reaction time.
http://i.imgur.com/WjAsEih.gif

Like shoot I played a burst Vanguard in SWTOR and thought I’d seen it all when it came to burst, but kitten .

Erindriel.2351:

What amulet are you using? Thieves are probably the sole reason berserker amulet is non-viable.

I was experimenting with a marauder amulet for that match.

i recommend you this build

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAqaVlsMhunYpTw8Jw/EH7ElfJ2irYHA1WbyPhNoEA-TZBEwAGOBAAOEAZLDQ4JA8b/BA

just learn how to position yourself and use unload – steal – unload or double unload from their back

P/P thieves are only good for catching you off-guard at the start. Then when everyone realizes you’re playing P/P, you’ll spend the rest of the game in downstate. At least, this is how it should work.

P/P damage was buffed recently, but they weren’t really unused due to their lack of damage before. They weren’t particularly viable due to their lack of survivability and the fact that most other classes/specs brought more to the table, which hasn’t really changed. You’ll see them for a little whilst people are still trying out the buffs, but not much beyond.

Tiffany.8576:

P/P thieves are only good for catching you off-guard at the start. Then when everyone realizes you’re playing P/P, you’ll spend the rest of the game in downstate. At least, this is how it should work.

P/P damage was buffed recently, but they weren’t really unused due to their lack of damage before. They weren’t particularly viable due to their lack of survivability and the fact that most other classes/specs brought more to the table, which hasn’t really changed. You’ll see them for a little whilst people are still trying out the buffs, but not much beyond.

that might be the case but if you are able to get their attention then you have created space..

as a p/p thief you should have 3 escape utility skills such as shadow step, refuge or something else.

so you can easily escape from them and go back to the fight.

Lavexis.5360:

that might be the case but if you are able to get their attention then you have created space..

as a p/p thief you should have 3 escape utility skills such as shadow step, refuge or something else.

so you can easily escape from them and go back to the fight.

Nah not really. Once you created their attention youre basicly making it a 4v5 for the rest of the game. Even with more escape uttis theyll focus you down untill youre dead.

p/p thief?

like…really?

lol

Archaon.9524:

p/p thief?

like…really?

lol

The OP has less than 100 games played. If he doesn’t have a lot of experience going against this particular setup (and it’s not common at all, I very rarely see P/P except as a troll build), it’s entirely understandable he should have problems with it because of a lack of practice.

It’s pretty lousy to mock somebody for having the intelligence to realize “wow I really have a problem with this” and trying to figure out how to deal with it.

Dear OP,

as a thief player I feel insulted by the presentation of your topic. Plz follow a few simple guidlines:

First the topic. It’s way too neutral. Something like: “OMG Theef so op now” is way better and creates much more attention. +1 for you that you mispelled thief. That is really important.

Second: You did everything wrong with your first sentence. The main mistake is that you are telling that you are new. Don’t do this, I will tell you soon why not.

You need a good start like: OMG ANET WTF!!!. Now you insult the developers and suggest that they are mentally challenged or something like that.

Your next part is ok, but you only suggest that you could do nothing. Say it: There was nothing I could do Now the problem is that you telled us that you are new to the game. So maybe you got outplayed.
But according to the forumguidelines that is impossible, because nobody here gets outplayed. If you loose to something it’s because it’s OP, you can do nothing and ANET doesn’t play their own game. Also: Your teammates sucked and the lag is horrible.

So for the next part don’t stay longer on the topic, because everybody here has a attention span of a goldfish. It’s more important to come to some conclusion like that this will ruin the game for sure, every customer is leaving and so on.

Your last part is again to much on topic. Make it more that you sound like you’ve calmed down, use the word seriously often and come to complete random conclusions how to fix the game. Try to avoid logic as much as possible, nobody can follow you this path, so just spare it. Seriously.

Whise words! Nothing to add there.

apocom.3172:

Dear OP,

as a thief player I feel insulted by the presentation of your topic. Plz follow a few simple guidlines:

First the topic. It’s way too neutral. Something like: “OMG Theef so op now” is way better and creates much more attention. +1 for you that you mispelled thief. That is really important.

Second: You did everything wrong with your first sentence. The main mistake is that you are telling that you are new. Don’t do this, I will tell you soon why not.

You need a good start like: OMG ANET WTF!!!. Now you insult the developers and suggest that they are mentally challenged or something like that.

Your next part is ok, but you only suggest that you could do nothing. Say it: There was nothing I could do Now the problem is that you telled us that you are new to the game. So maybe you got outplayed.
But according to the forumguidelines that is impossible, because nobody here gets outplayed. If you loose to something it’s because it’s OP, you can do nothing and ANET doesn’t play their own game. Also: Your teammates sucked and the lag is horrible.

So for the next part don’t stay longer on the topic, because everybody here has a attention span of a goldfish. It’s more important to come to some conclusion like that this will ruin the game for sure, every customer is leaving and so on.

Your last part is again to much on topic. Make it more that you sound like you’ve calmed down, use the word seriously often and come to complete random conclusions how to fix the game. Try to avoid logic as much as possible, nobody can follow you this path, so just spare it. Seriously.

You just summarized at least half the threads I ever read on those forums, ever.

Crinn.7864:

ok I figured out how he did it. Still not sure how to fight it other than have the world’s most amazing reaction time.
http://i.imgur.com/WjAsEih.gif

Like shoot I played a burst Vanguard in SWTOR and thought I’d seen it all when it came to burst, but kitten .

I had a build like this just for fun before the trait revamp.
It hit harder back then with the old traits..
Hit all signets for might and spam 3.
If it fails well then you’re kittened :d

I suggest you do your best to have your defensive stun break ready for bassy venom. Then you can manage the unload damage with a dodge. I dodge will cut the dps in half. Plus, you must remember to pressure the thief. If you force them to stop shooting you to protect themselves, then you will be in better shape.

Remember as an engineer, you need to be utilizing at least the fact that you can do the damage while kiting, through bombs or through grenades. Also remember with the initiative system on thief, unload cost 5 initiative which is 1/3 of their initiative bar, with the 15 initiative most thieves have. Bait unloads with defensive cooldowns

To be honest the damage increase took me by surprise at first, but it isn’t something that is insurmountable. In actuality this actually hurts p/p thief a bit more due to reflects. If you have p/s equipped then you can laugh as they destroy themselves. If you have Flamethrower equipped, then you can laugh when you Air Blast it back at them, etc etc. Yes this is something that can catch you with your pants down, but with proper suspenders that will rarely happen.

So I ran into some more p/p thieves, but I managed to not die this time. Elixir S toobelt skill is really useful for both escaping the shooting and turning around and surprising the thief. Which is good because I really didn’t want to have to run pistol/shield.

Now if I could just figure out how to beat those kitten necros. This forum needs a “how do I beat X while playing Y” thread instead o all these QQ threads.

Crinn.7864:

So I ran into some more p/p thieves, but I managed to not die this time. Elixir S toobelt skill is really useful for both escaping the shooting and turning around and surprising the thief. Which is good because I really didn’t want to have to run pistol/shield.

Now if I could just figure out how to beat those kitten necros. This forum needs a “how do I beat X while playing Y” thread instead o all these QQ threads.

That can be tough and it’s hard to give general advice because it depends on the exact engineer and necro builds.

If you’re a condi engi, it’s often just a “do not engage” or “+1 only” protocol. Use your escape/speeds to go elsewhere.

Elite Elixir is your best friend.

Most of my sustain heavy engineer builds can beat a necro, but not quickly is the issue.

Some engi builds will have lots of CC to rock the necro with. You may or may not be able to kill him, but if you can push him off the point and be on it more than he is, you win.

Similarly, rifle 2 and Tool Kit 5,2 will help keep them off the point. If you can keep that super tough necro off point, that’s good enough.

Daze, chill and if you have it stun are very useful. The thing about necro sustain is while they’re very tough, if they mess up one ability at the wrong time, they’re done.

If the necro is in DS, they don’t have access to their condition transfer active abilities. They may still have the passive so watch out, but not all necros will have that. If they don’t or it seems like they should have used it by now, a massive burning spike will eat their DS quickly.

Glass cannon FT,grenade and even mortar builds can be pretty brutal on a necro.

LunacyPolish.4602:

Crinn.7864:

So I ran into some more p/p thieves, but I managed to not die this time. Elixir S toobelt skill is really useful for both escaping the shooting and turning around and surprising the thief. Which is good because I really didn’t want to have to run pistol/shield.

Now if I could just figure out how to beat those kitten necros. This forum needs a “how do I beat X while playing Y” thread instead o all these QQ threads.

That can be tough and it’s hard to give general advice because it depends on the exact engineer and necro builds.

If you’re a condi engi, it’s often just a “do not engage” or “+1 only” protocol. Use your escape/speeds to go elsewhere.

Elite Elixir is your best friend.

Most of my sustain heavy engineer builds can beat a necro, but not quickly is the issue.

Some engi builds will have lots of CC to rock the necro with. You may or may not be able to kill him, but if you can push him off the point and be on it more than he is, you win.

Similarly, rifle 2 and Tool Kit 5,2 will help keep them off the point. If you can keep that super tough necro off point, that’s good enough.

Daze, chill and if you have it stun are very useful. The thing about necro sustain is while they’re very tough, if they mess up one ability at the wrong time, they’re done.

If the necro is in DS, they don’t have access to their condition transfer active abilities. They may still have the passive so watch out, but not all necros will have that. If they don’t or it seems like they should have used it by now, a massive burning spike will eat their DS quickly.

Glass cannon FT,grenade and even mortar builds can be pretty brutal on a necro.

another tip: moa takes necros out of death shroud. so damage & cc the necro enough to get their HP low, then moa when they try to shroud. stunlock is your best weapon vs necro, that & moa.

LunacyPolish.4602:

The trick to fighting a thief, as an engineer, is you have to realize strictly speaking, they’re mechanically superior. They can put you in situations where you are going to lose and lose badly. However that superiority is fully contingent upon the thief’s player executing those mechanics correctly.

It takes a while to develop it, but eventually you will pick up on certain cues that the thief is about to make a big play. In other words, you have to outwit the other player.

If you know they’re about to come out of stealth and rock you, you do something like:

Drop your Big Old Bomb to interrupt their burst.
Pop Elixir S right before (that’s key) they open up on you, then immediately hit them with say Rifle 4 or your moa elixir immediately after coming out of it. You want them to waste those first 2-3 attacks.
Pop Flamethrower 5 at the last possible second.
In this particular example, shield 4 would be your best weapon. You’d probably have to hit your stun break and then shield 4 immediately to get any use out of it against most thieves but them’s the breaks.
Stealth yourself right before he hits, so he comes out of stealth while you’re still stealthed.

A more general tactic against nearly any kind of thief is realizing that engineers can fight opponents without having to “stand and deliver”. Ironically, the untraited bomb kit is actually one of the greatest anti thief weapons, though it wouldn’t be as good against a P/P thief, it would still work. The reason it’s good is there’s a delay between placing the bomb and having it explode, and since it covers an area, you don’t have to be completely precise, but basically use your Vigor and Adrenal implant etc. to keep dodging around and dropping bombs that will attack him indirectly.

Confusion stacking works great, fwiw.

Finally, Lock On is your friend.

A good thief player who has learned to be unpredictable is just a real terror. However if you play and play and play you’ll eventually learn to spot typical behaviors, and you’ll start to anticipate these things. Once you get that sixth sense of when you’re about to get rekt, thieves… don’t become easy, but it becomes much more even is a good way to put it.

It’s really more about the situational awareness of the player than anything. Engineers are challenging to play because you have to mash a lot of buttons in very particular sequences. You’re so busy playing the interface, it’s hard to have good situational awareness. Once you get used to it somewhat though, your ability to pay attention to other things will improve. It’ll develop, but it’s going to suck for a while.

Also realize that if the thief sets you up right and executes his setup perfectly, well usually he probably deserves to win. There’s just going to be times the thief is going to eat your lunch. Engineer vs. thief really is often a matter of who catches who first. I’ve had matches where a thief and I just obliterated each other brutally, depending entirely on who saw who first.

I can’t believe what was just read.

Thieves mechanically superior than engies…..lol

Tiffany.8576:

P/P thieves are only good for catching you off-guard at the start. Then when everyone realizes you’re playing P/P, you’ll spend the rest of the game in downstate. At least, this is how it should work.

P/P damage was buffed recently, but they weren’t really unused due to their lack of damage before. They weren’t particularly viable due to their lack of survivability and the fact that most other classes/specs brought more to the table, which hasn’t really changed. You’ll see them for a little whilst people are still trying out the buffs, but not much beyond.

I’ve run P/P D/D for over 2 years
(WvW though, only 4 games in PvP for thief lol, not a fan of thief role)