Guild Wars 2

now that the first small part of balance “fixes” is done, i would like to talk about what’s left to do.

i have no intention of bashing on classes here so i will only express my concerns on a mostly objective way:

ele:
problematic design atm. basically pigeonholed into diamond skin which is unhealthy for the ele and unhealthy for the enemies aswell.

warrior:
lacks sustain in the berserker line. you kind of need the healing that shouts offer you but you can’t get them because you need stances at the same time. rage skills are useless and many berserker traits are flawed.

thief:
difficult design. currently too squishy but buffing it can be dangerous as it has the potential to become completely broken. does not need damage buffs.

mesmer:
chrono support is still incredibly strong… nerfing it now after precog fix could be difficult. one strong part of chrono is the stability on shatter. basically what’s needed is tiny little shaves at some points. something that will always be really hard to balance is continuum split.. double elites is ridiculously strong.

necro:
necro still has the “no-disengage” problem, so when you start a fight you either win it or you die in it. something that is too strong on necro is the chill damage. it’s basically dhuumfire on steroids.

engi:
stealth gyro needs a longer cooldown and the sustain on it is too high. for a marauder build it’s incredibly tanky.

ranger:
daze duration is very strong.. bristleback damage is definitely too high. rng-ness of pet skills like the unblockable knockdown of the smokescale. buff to vanilla pets.

guardian:
i would personally appreciate to have a viable support spec on guardian again. dragonhunter just feels bad.. it’s not even a weak spec but it just doesn’t excel at the important things.

rev:
ventari and jalis useless in pvp. a viable support spec would be nice but hardly possible because of the nature of ventari. mallyx overhaul; resistance as the only condi mitigation is flawed, especially after the nerf.

what i hope for season 2 (appart from division and matchmaking changes, and a mmr reset) is that we get a number of new builds. imo it would be very tiring to play the same meta for 2 seasons. after a bunker + condi meta a support + burst (no stealth please) meta would be refreshing.

Ele is not pigeonholed in DS, a weaker support auramancer can be run with more self condi removal, the real problem for ele since launch is the lack of reliable burst/condi build in PvP, very weak dmg mitigation on weapon skills, very long CD on them, all the ele defense comes from traits ( at least at 90% ). Basically ele has been pushed into this sustain mele brawler by design and they don’t seem willingly to change it

Supreme.3164:

a weaker support auramancer can be run

the real problem for ele since launch is the lack of reliable burst build

1. you usually don’t want to run something weaker

2. burst ele always kinda was the 2nd grade shatter mesmer. not only did it have less burst but also no role. no portal, no boon removal, no stealth, only some boons. i also don’t really see a potential burst spec in tempest so that won’t happen most likely until elite specs v2.

Weaker builds is what you get anyway after nerfs start to come, when all builds will be nerfed then what would be considered now a weaker version of auramancer will be perceived instead as balanced.

One thing we know next ele elite spec will be more dmg oriented in a way or another..no chance of getting a 3rd bunker build lol

I feel like the only balanced professions right now are warrior and thief, the other professions got so much stuff out of their elite specializations that they have become over powered.

So you have 2 solutions for the problem;

Buff warrior and thief to the same level of the other professions. Which in my opinion is REALLY, REALLY BAD for the game because you end up with builds that can do everything at the same time, be tanky, do damage, etc… see for example marauder strapper, it has everything, Damage, support and is tanky.

Or nerf everyone down to the warrior and thief level. Witch is way more healty to the game because you dont have superoverpowered classes that can do every thing. For example: Warriors can do a lot of damage, but they are quite squisy. Or they can play more suporty being more tanky but doing way less damage.

But still, warriors and thieves need some help, but is more a question of changes than buffs.

I’ll be fine shaving chill damage when the sustain of everything else with tons of sustain gets looked at too. But I do agree as a necro main thats a bit oppressive against people that don’t run lots of cleanses, -%imparing conditions or whatnot. Its the main source of reaper condi damage right now, and in general I’d like to see better traits in lines other than spite and sould reaping too, but necro build diversity really isn’t that bad compared to others, which is probably the main reason I never get bored of necro like I do with every other class. Theres always something new and different to play.

Its interesting to think about how broken this game will be with another round of elite specs. I don’t think I want to even think about that.

Mulling.8421:

I feel like the only balanced professions right now are warrior and thief, the other professions got so much stuff out of their elite specializations that they have become over powered.

So you have 2 solutions for the problem;

Buff warrior and thief to the same level of the other professions. Which in my opinion is REALLY, REALLY BAD for the game because you end up with builds that can do everything at the same time, be tanky, do damage, etc… see for example marauder strapper, it has everything, Damage, support and is tanky.

Or nerf everyone down to the warrior and thief level. Witch is way more healty to the game because you dont have superoverpowered classes that can do every thing. For example: Warriors can do a lot of damage, but they are quite squisy. Or they can play more suporty being more tanky but doing way less damage.

But still, warriors and thieves need some help, but is more a question of changes than buffs.

I don’t want to think what would happen to wvw if thieevs and war get buffed while everybody else get nerfed..right now thieves represent alone the 50% of all roamers spec; when thinking about wvw..do think about other game modes also as for example I prefer wvw over pvp

Jekkt.6045:

mesmer:
chrono support is still incredibly strong… nerfing it now after precog fix could be difficult. one strong part of chrono is the stability on shatter. basically what’s needed is tiny little shaves at some points. something that will always be really hard to balance is continuum split.. double elites is ridiculously strong.

The trouble here is any nerfs to core mesmer traits like Bountiful Disillusionment make Chrono even more necessary. A full core mesmer build is already inferior compared to chrono given that it’s rare to see anyone playing it anymore.

But the other problem is the Chrono line provides a lot of band aid fixes to core mesmer – such as 25% movement speed, chronophantasma, time catches up and so on.

If Anet want to take that route in the future when more elite specs are made, that every player must choose one elite spec and two core specs, then I could live with nerfs to core traits.

If they plan to nerf all elite specs in 6 months when enough HoT has been sold so players won’t be handicapped by running core only builds, then they must be careful when touching core traits.

tempest – too much healing, too much protection (and too strong, perma 50% less dmg is crazy), diamond skin needs a rework. probably the most broken spec atm

scrapper – heals too much, adaptive armor is too strong and too easy to maintain, stealth gyro needs higher CD.

thief and war – need buffs. war i could see getting there with couple buffs/tweaks. But thief seems to be in a hopeless state, across all game-modes really. It no longer has a purpose whatsoever.

Those are some major points, but i would like a bunch of smaller tweaks that increase build diversity for individual classes.

Stilgar.6437:

tempest – too much healing, too much protection (and too strong, perma 50% less dmg is crazy), diamond skin needs a rework. probably the most broken spec atm

marauder – heals too much, adaptive armor is too strong and too easy to maintain.

thief and war – need buffs. war i could see getting there with couple buffs/tweaks. But thief seems to be in a hopeless state, across all game-modes really. It no longer has a purpose whatsoever.

Those are some major points, but i would like a bunch of smaller tweaks that increase build diversity for individual classes.

Ofc you mention only the sustain…not the lack of dmg modifiers on tempest.

Currently sustain is the only thing ele has to win any fight as the profession in its entirety lacks the dmg to bring down anything in a respectable amount of time, without sustain or dmg, the profession would be deleted from the game.

A marauder scepter ele can’t even tickle a burst scrapper, rev and the likes

The ele lacks any kind of active sustain to maintain a viable burst build, no CC chains like engi or the stealth of a mesmer/thief…but “Im sure” you know that already …Stilgar^^

Nerfing the healing on tempest and scrapper…would make the match far too easy for scrapper/engi given the huge amount of CC and dmg will still possess so….your engi would hold too much of an advantage

tbh i don’t feel like tempest has too much sustain, without minstrel it even feels like as if it’s barely enough. usually tempest is the build i’m the least scared of.. manageable in 1v1 and easy targets in teamfights.

and your facts are not right. it’s 40% reduction only for the ele and diamond skin is useless against everything except necro. i’d rather have a gm trait that gives me something useful against everything instead of only vs necro.

Anet will go for a Mesmer nuke nerf first. Then prob buff DH and Scrapper.

Stilgar.6437:

thief and war – need buffs. war i could see getting there with couple buffs/tweaks. But thief seems to be in a hopeless state, across all game-modes really. It no longer has a purpose whatsoever.

I don’t think thieves and warriors are very different in how strong they are right now. Warriors are squishy and their offense isn’t good enough to compensate, and thieves are kind of in the same place. They just die before they can impact things like other classes can – however, thieves have more potential to do well than warriors, I’d say, given they have potentially more survivability than warriors if both players are very skilled. Thief has more immunity from dodges, which can more than make up for its lacking defenses in theory, though generally not in practice.

Neither class seems far from being meta-viable, but neither are capable enough in duels or teamfights at the moment. I’d say give warriors heals on their stances, and give thieves a trait that reduces ‘revealed’ duration by half, and give thieves a trait that provides some defense to skills not aimed at them.

Jekkt.6045:

tbh i don’t feel like tempest has too much sustain, without minstrel it even feels like as if it’s barely enough. usually tempest is the build i’m the least scared of.. manageable in 1v1 and easy targets in teamfights.

and your facts are not right. it’s 40% reduction only for the ele and diamond skin is useless against everything except necro. i’d rather have a gm trait that gives me something useful against everything instead of only vs necro.

It’s 50% reduction within 600 range units of they run earth for the GM minor trait (10% from that) and frost aura gives another 10% though that is less commonly up.

Diamond skin is also bad because it pushes out things like burn DH and condi scrapper/chrono, which have even less hope against tempest compared to necro, so overall it’s detrimental for this game’s build diversity in my opinion.

nearlight.3064:

Jekkt.6045:

tbh i don’t feel like tempest has too much sustain, without minstrel it even feels like as if it’s barely enough. usually tempest is the build i’m the least scared of.. manageable in 1v1 and easy targets in teamfights.

and your facts are not right. it’s 40% reduction only for the ele and diamond skin is useless against everything except necro. i’d rather have a gm trait that gives me something useful against everything instead of only vs necro.

It’s 50% reduction within 600 range units of they run earth for the GM minor trait (10% from that) and frost aura gives another 10% though that is less commonly up.

Diamond skin is also bad because it pushes out things like burn DH and condi scrapper/chrono, which have even less hope against tempest compared to necro, so overall it’s detrimental for this game’s build diversity in my opinion.

yeah if you add the trait reductions then yes, it might be over 50%.

i disagree with burn dh though. elite specs brought a lot more cleansing with them so a single condition build will just not work out.
on the other hand necro is the main problem when it comes to condition builds. after the mallyx resistance nerf, necro is again the king of conditions and counter to more or less every condition build in the game.

while i shouldn’t say this.. i’m glad condi chronomancer is not a thing and will hopefully never be.

something that i wish they’d add is suicide builds.. in gw1 contagion bomber was quite funny and while it brought some risks with it, it had the potential to be very effective.

Jekkt.6045:

…while i shouldn’t say this.. i’m glad condi chronomancer is not a thing and will hopefully never be…

Mesmer condis are torment and confusion, the two condis with the most counterplay (stop moving, stop AA). If anything, this is the one condi build a mindful/aware player should want to fight.

But you wont fight it, because ANet nerfed Maimed the Disillusioned before HoT.

Fun facts.

To be fair, in a condi vs condi fight, the Necro sort of should be the apex predator, since the profession was designed as the “master of conditions.” They’re not unbeatable by any stretch, but they will be an uphill battle.

nearlight.3064:

Jekkt.6045:

tbh i don’t feel like tempest has too much sustain, without minstrel it even feels like as if it’s barely enough. usually tempest is the build i’m the least scared of.. manageable in 1v1 and easy targets in teamfights.

and your facts are not right. it’s 40% reduction only for the ele and diamond skin is useless against everything except necro. i’d rather have a gm trait that gives me something useful against everything instead of only vs necro.

It’s 50% reduction within 600 range units of they run earth for the GM minor trait (10% from that) and frost aura gives another 10% though that is less commonly up.

Diamond skin is also bad because it pushes out things like burn DH and condi scrapper/chrono, which have even less hope against tempest compared to necro, so overall it’s detrimental for this game’s build diversity in my opinion.

The 50% dmg reduction is great on paper but it’s “useless” in reality; you forgot all dmg modifier, vulnerability stacks, boon strip that rain on the ele 24/7.

You leave out builds like this ones:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Herald_-_Power_Shiro
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Dragonhunter_-_Meditrapper
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Chronomancer_-_Power_Shatter

And there are many more build like this, so despite your claims this protection 100% uptime of your does jack squat for ele, unless you have stone heart you get flattened in a couple of seconds by these builds played by decent players (not copy/paste bots)

So YES, @Jekkt was correct in saying that ele sustain is almost null in current PvP as he can be bursted down in a couple of seconds without 100% investment in defense

There is DS claimed to be the “ultimate” defense mechanism trait but at high level doe absolutely nothing

I can see how DS makes ele god like, 2 of them can hold a whole team like some necros claimed …http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/27923458

Also…since when condi chrono/scrapper get played in pvp?…your claims could not be more false