Guild Wars 2

notes to forum moderator:
1. this topic is placed here to receive feedback from non warrior pvp players as well.
2. this topic is about making removed warrior traits baseline. please do not merge.

as i was saying in another topic:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/mesmers-has-too-many-traits-made-baseline/first#post5349735

mesmers have too many traits made baseline, so here i am, asking for warriors to have more traits made baseline too.

no, i’m not asking for fast hands or cleansing ire to be made baseline.
let’s look at some removed of the warrior traits.

from here:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_historical_traits#Warrior_traits

i picked out some that could be useful, or simply as useless filler baseline traits.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Furious_Speed
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Desperate_Power
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Turtle%27s_Defense
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Short_Temper
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thrill_of_the_Kill
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inspiring_Banners
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Powerful_Banners

quick reference for what they do

furious speed: 100% chance to gain 10 s swiftness on critical hits. 10s recharge
desperate power: deal +20% damage when health < 25%
turtle’s defense: +200 toughness when crippled, chilled, stunned, or immobilized.
short temper: gain 3 might 5s and 1 adrenaline each time you are blocked.
thrill of the kill: gain 10 adrenaline on a kill.
inspiring banners: banners radius increased 50% recharge reduced 20%
powerful banners: banners do damage when summoned.

most useless trait would be powerful banners, since banners have long recharge time, the damage is puny, the radius is tiny. useless.

inspiring banners is very useful, in fact, it was always used in banner builds, but they removed it. did not even bother to explain why. actually, both powerful banners and inspiring banners should be bundled together with the inspiring battle standards trait to become a grandmaster trait instead. then powerful synergy could become a master trait in discipline specialization.

short temper, thrill of the kill really should be made baseline for the warrior as the adrenaline gain has been nerfed into the ground, having more adrenaline gain would not hurt.

desperate power seems borderline useless, unless used together with dual endure pain, because at 25% health the warrior is usually quite dead.

turtles defense is nice to have, and furious speed may be a bit too powerful if made baseline.

well, for myself, i would appreciate if at least these 2 adrenaline generating traits are made baseline:
short temper
thrill of the kill

even better if this one made it too:
turtle’s defense

this is quite situational but still could be useful:
desperate power

this is simply asking for too much, but hey, i can dream right?
furious speed

anyway, discuss !

oh btw the 2 banner traits should be bundled together with the current banner trait.

update:
reasons why these 5 traits should be made baseline

1. short temper
it is only natural for warriors to feel angry when their attacks are blocked, gaining 1 adrenal and 1 might 5 s is perfectly natural as it fits with the warrior theme.

2. thrill of the kill
again, another natural trait for warriors, it is very natural for warriors to feel excited after they have made a kill. this is justified as a baseline trait.

3. turtle’s defense
warrior is master of defense, wearing heavy armor, of course it is natural that they know how to defend themselves better after being hit by movement impairing conditions. this is natural defense.

4. desperate power
warriors cannot stealth, cannot teleport, cannot enter death shroud, cannot summon illusions, cannot give protection boon to themselves. warriors can only face tank damage that long before they go down. it is perfectly fair for dying warriors to deal a little bit of more damage. this is normal.

5. furious speed
warriors are always angry, it is normal for them to get angrier and faster after landing a critical hit.

Called it.
15chars

A bunch of these have no reason to be baselined. Only ones, out of these anyway, that would be reasonable would be Inspiring and Powerful Banners. Traits become baseline when they are absolutely necessary to play a class or use a weapon, which most of these aren’t.

Coulter.2315:

Called it.
15chars

called what?

The Wizland.8435:

A bunch of these have no reason to be baselined. Only ones, out of these anyway, that would be reasonable would be Inspiring and Powerful Banners. Traits become baseline when they are absolutely necessary to play a class or use a weapon, which most of these aren’t.

by that logic, fast hands and cleansing ire should be baseline.

They only should rework inspiring Battle standard readding the old version.

The actual banner trait is really bad.

philheat.3956:

They only should rework inspiring Battle standard readding the old version.

The actual banner trait is really bad.

yes, banner recharge and radius should be merged into the current banner trait, and available as a grandmaster trait in tactics line, not discipline.

swap places with powerful synergy perhaps?
because powerful synergy does not seems very tactic-ky to me.

also, giving warriors some useless traits as baseline would not make them overpowered.

merged traits that are UP, sure. making traits baseline? no.

JaeleCt.3967:

merged traits that are UP, sure. making traits baseline? no.

mesmers get 6 traits baseline, so why can’t other professions get them too?

not fair.

necro’s get 2 health bars, why cant other professions get them too? not fair.
Wars get adrenaline that gives them great regen while maxed, why cant other professions get that too? not fair.
guards get a ton of protection boons, blocks and heals, why cant other professions have that too? not fair.
id keep going but im getting bored, and i think i made my point….

JaeleCt.3967:

necro’s get 2 health bars, why cant other professions get them too? not fair.
Wars get adrenaline that gives them great regen while maxed, why cant other professions get that too? not fair.
guards get a ton of protection boons, blocks and heals, why cant other professions have that too? not fair.
id keep going but im getting bored, and i think i made my point….

no, you did not.

the fact is, mesmer had more traits made baseline than other professions.

so, other professions should get some more traits made baseline too.

changed title to attract more feedback

tl; dr summary of what i what:
i want 5 more removed warrior traits to be made into baseline traits.

these five traits:
1. short temper
2. thrill of the kill
3. turtle’s defense
4. desperate power
5. furious speed

it will help warrior a bit, but will not make them overpowered like current mesmers or elementalists.

discuss!

JaeleCt.3967:

necro’s get 2 health bars, why cant other professions get them too? not fair.
Wars get adrenaline that gives them great regen while maxed, why cant other professions get that too? not fair.
guards get a ton of protection boons, blocks and heals, why cant other professions have that too? not fair.
id keep going but im getting bored, and i think i made my point….

Your arguments are pretty fail, no offense. You literally compared Adrenal Health to death shroud.

Everything in the game is balanced except Eles & Mesmers.
It’s Eles & Mesmers that need nerfing.
Other classes do not need to be buffed.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Everything in the game is balanced except Eles & Mesmers.
It’s Eles & Mesmers that need nerfing.
Other classes do not need to be buffed.

no. ele and mesmers are balanced.
other professions are under powered and need some positive adjustments.

and no, giving warriors 5 removed traits as baseline traits will not make warriors godlike either.

so why are you objecting to this proposal?

No, Powercreep is bad, stop buffing everything until we can either oneshot each other or nobody ever dies.

Regarding the OP, this seems like something you randomly threw together in a minute. Except for the banner traits, none of these has a reason to be baselined.

Iavra.8510:

No, Powercreep is bad, stop buffing everything until we can either oneshot each other or nobody ever dies.

Regarding the OP, this seems like something you randomly threw together in a minute. Except for the banner traits, none of these has a reason to be baselined.

no, this is not power creep.
power creep means making warrior more powerful, adding these 5 removed traits as baseline will not make warriors any more powerful.

not randomly. these traits are old warrior traits that were removed.
you want reason? fine, i’ll give you some reasons.

by the way, mesmer got 6 baseline traits that never had any good reason to be made baseline traits too. at least that is how i feel about them. hows that? see what i did?

anyway, you want reasons:

1. short temper
it is only natural for warriors to feel angry when their attacks are blocked, gaining 1 adrenal and 1 might 5 s is perfectly natural as it fits with the warrior theme.

2. thrill of the kill
again, another natural trait for warriors, it is very natural for warriors to feel excited after they have made a kill. this is justified as a baseline trait.

3. turtle’s defense
warrior is master of defense, wearing heavy armor, of course it is natural that they know how to defend themselves better after being hit by movement impairing conditions. this is natural defense.

4. desperate power
warriors cannot stealth, cannot teleport, cannot enter death shroud, cannot summon illusions, cannot give protection boon to themselves. warriors can only face tank damage that long before they go down. it is perfectly fair for dying warriors to deal a little bit of more damage. this is normal.

5. furious speed
warriors are always angry, it is normal for them to get angrier and faster after landing a critical hit.

there you go.

i gave you 5 perfectly good reasons why these 5 traits should be made baseline.

I might see Thrill of the Kill as an equivalent to Necros generating LF, but as long as it doesn’t work with the profession mechanic or buff individual skills, there is no reason to make something baseline.

For example: “furious speed: 100% chance to gain 10 s swiftness on critical hits. 10s recharge”
There is absolutely NO reason, why this should be baseline. It doesn’t synergize with the profession mechanic at all nor does it buff individual skills. It’s just a flat out bonus exclusive to the warrior profession that has no reason to be there.

Iavra.8510:

I might see Thrill of the Kill as an equivalent to Necros generating LF, but as long as it doesn’t work with the profession mechanic or buff individual skills, there is no reason to make something baseline.

For example: “furious speed: 100% chance to gain 10 s swiftness on critical hits. 10s recharge”
There is absolutely NO reason, why this should be baseline. It doesn’t synergize with the profession mechanic at all nor does it buff individual skills. It’s just a flat out bonus exclusive to the warrior profession that has no reason to be there.

similar to necro and life force, not really equivalent though as life force does not degenerate quickly once out of combat.

thrill of the kill would not make warriors any more powerful, in pve, it may help in clearing out large group of mobs. in pvp, well, in 1 v 1, when you stomp or burst down the downed opponent, the warrior exits combat and adrenal begins to quickly degenerate anyway. would only useful in pvp team fights.

all right, you caught me with furious speed. i do agree i was asking for a bit too much with that. but the other 4 should really be made baseline traits.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Iavra.8510:

No, Powercreep is bad, stop buffing everything until we can either oneshot each other or nobody ever dies.

Regarding the OP, this seems like something you randomly threw together in a minute. Except for the banner traits, none of these has a reason to be baselined.

no, this is not power creep.
power creep means making warrior more powerful, adding these 5 removed traits as baseline will not make warriors any more powerful.

not randomly. these traits are old warrior traits that were removed.
you want reason? fine, i’ll give you some reasons.

by the way, mesmer got 6 baseline traits that never had any good reason to be made baseline traits too. at least that is how i feel about them. hows that? see what i did?

anyway, you want reasons:

1. short temper
it is only natural for warriors to feel angry when their attacks are blocked, gaining 1 adrenal and 1 might 5 s is perfectly natural as it fits with the warrior theme.

2. thrill of the kill
again, another natural trait for warriors, it is very natural for warriors to feel excited after they have made a kill. this is justified as a baseline trait.

3. turtle’s defense
warrior is master of defense, wearing heavy armor, of course it is natural that they know how to defend themselves better after being hit by movement impairing conditions. this is natural defense.

4. desperate power
warriors cannot stealth, cannot teleport, cannot enter death shroud, cannot summon illusions, cannot give protection boon to themselves. warriors can only face tank damage that long before they go down. it is perfectly fair for dying warriors to deal a little bit of more damage. this is normal.

5. furious speed
warriors are always angry, it is normal for them to get angrier and faster after landing a critical hit.

there you go.

i gave you 5 perfectly good reasons why these 5 traits should be made baseline.

If you are adding free additional stuff to a class, it is powercreep. It makes warrior have more stuff åka more powerful.

Quadox.7834:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Iavra.8510:

No, Powercreep is bad, stop buffing everything until we can either oneshot each other or nobody ever dies.

Regarding the OP, this seems like something you randomly threw together in a minute. Except for the banner traits, none of these has a reason to be baselined.

no, this is not power creep.
power creep means making warrior more powerful, adding these 5 removed traits as baseline will not make warriors any more powerful.

not randomly. these traits are old warrior traits that were removed.
you want reason? fine, i’ll give you some reasons.

by the way, mesmer got 6 baseline traits that never had any good reason to be made baseline traits too. at least that is how i feel about them. hows that? see what i did?

anyway, you want reasons:

1. short temper
it is only natural for warriors to feel angry when their attacks are blocked, gaining 1 adrenal and 1 might 5 s is perfectly natural as it fits with the warrior theme.

2. thrill of the kill
again, another natural trait for warriors, it is very natural for warriors to feel excited after they have made a kill. this is justified as a baseline trait.

3. turtle’s defense
warrior is master of defense, wearing heavy armor, of course it is natural that they know how to defend themselves better after being hit by movement impairing conditions. this is natural defense.

4. desperate power
warriors cannot stealth, cannot teleport, cannot enter death shroud, cannot summon illusions, cannot give protection boon to themselves. warriors can only face tank damage that long before they go down. it is perfectly fair for dying warriors to deal a little bit of more damage. this is normal.

5. furious speed
warriors are always angry, it is normal for them to get angrier and faster after landing a critical hit.

there you go.

i gave you 5 perfectly good reasons why these 5 traits should be made baseline.

If you are adding free additional stuff to a class, it is powercreep. It makes warrior have more stuff åka more powerful.

nope.

adding 5 removed traits does not make warrior any more powerful.

Ok, so there is no reason to add them in the first place, right?

You chosed the worst and most useless traits of warrior to be made baseline, me as a warrior would prefer not to have those traits made baseline only to not give an excuse to other classes to say “warrior is the simpliest class and is in a good spot in the meta”.

There’s only one trait that deserve to be made baseline, thats called Fast Hands.
Then off course i would totaly change the entire tactic line and Grandmaster traits of defence, but thats another argument.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

JaeleCt.3967:

merged traits that are UP, sure. making traits baseline? no.

mesmers get 6 traits baseline, so why can’t other professions get them too?

not fair.

Use a little context, and you will quickly learn that it is indeed fair.

Iavra.8510:

Ok, so there is no reason to add them in the first place, right?

there is. because mesmers had 6 traits made baseline.
that alone, is a good reason enough for non mesmer professions to receive more baseline traits already.

Shala.8352:

You chosed the worst and most useless traits of warrior to be made baseline, me as a warrior would prefer not to have those traits made baseline only to not give an excuse to other classes to say “warrior is the simpliest class and is in a good spot in the meta”.

There’s only one trait that deserve to be made baseline, thats called Fast Hands.
Then off course i would totaly change the entire tactic line and Grandmaster traits of defence, but thats another argument.

well, beggers can’t be picky.
of course i would want cleansing ire and fast hands to be made baseline but that will never happen. if i ask for useless traits to be made baseline, there could be a slight chance it may happen if i beg hard enough.

MailMail.6534:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

JaeleCt.3967:

merged traits that are UP, sure. making traits baseline? no.

mesmers get 6 traits baseline, so why can’t other professions get them too?

not fair.

Use a little context, and you will quickly learn that it is indeed fair.

it is not fair.

6 versus 1.

math please.

Warriors have more weapons than any other profession, please give more weapons to mesmers.

Iavra.8510:

Warriors have more weapons than any other profession, please give more weapons to mesmers.

NP i will give you all the useless weapons i have with useless and impossible skills to land in exchange of F1 F2 F3 F4 instant burst skills that doesnt require any movement of the character to land. Deal?

@Deimos Tel Arin.7391
“if i ask for useless traits to be made baseline, there could be a slight chance it may happen if i beg hard enough.” You are already saying it by yourself, those are useless traits XD XD and wont help warrior to be decent. What mesmer has get are totaly usefull traits that have been made baseline, so your way of balance is wrong even in this aspect.
You cant pick random traits and make them baseline, there must be a reason. And what is the reason to make those traits you mention to be baseline? THere’s no reason! You said it, they are useless!!! Best way to balance is to spot a weakness, and chose the right traits to compensate that weakness and always COMPARED to other classes weakness.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Everything in the game is balanced except Eles & Mesmers.
It’s Eles & Mesmers that need nerfing.
Other classes do not need to be buffed.

if you think thieves having 1 build is balance then cool. otherwise we have nothing else to do, just like lelementalists

Guys, some of you might be new here, but Deimos’ warrior threads are kinda a novelty, every couple of weeks there’s another one filled with demands for warrior buffs, senseless logic, complaining about everything other classes have and arguing over every post.

Don’t try and reason with it, you are only feeding.

OT: warriors do not need those traits made baseline