Guild Wars 2

i know these are 2 diffrent games….but if the same people in charge had the idea of making pvp balance. why is the meta in gw2 so awful…..hence turret engi, kitten ele even though u might not see them.. and the healing toughness not scalling well with the rest of the stats?

The only thing the same between GW1 and GW2 is that they share ‘Guild Wars’ in the name.

Baldrick.8967:

The only thing the same between GW1 and GW2 is that they share ‘Guild Wars’ in the name.

^^^ this

gw2 was aimed at the sensitive casual playerbase hence why we are drifting from action vs reaction to straight passive play. If the devs actually pay attention to feedback ( extremely questionable) they are flooded with players with the mindset that if their class effortlessly beats all other classes then its balanced, HOWEVER if 1 class beats them well then that class is op and needs a nerf.

gw1 we had the ability to make many diverse builds setting up combos as well as had the risk that if your opponent interrupted your combo then you were in trouble. in gw2 your pigeonholed into a few builds and oh you interrupted my skill 3, but that doesnt stop me from using 1,2,4,5 followed by 3 a second later.

End result: We watch these tournys were the shoutcasters scream HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE as two meat tanks play ring around the rosie for several minutes until one player finally succumbs after making repeated multiple mistakes…..

There were a lot of hard gimmicky builds to beat too in GW1: ranger spike; VIMWAY; IWAY; etc etc, it’s nothing new for GW2 meta

echo.2053:

Baldrick.8967:

The only thing the same between GW1 and GW2 is that they share ‘Guild Wars’ in the name.

^^^ this

gw2 was aimed at the sensitive casual playerbase hence why we are drifting from action vs reaction to straight passive play. If the devs actually pay attention to feedback ( extremely questionable) they are flooded with players with the mindset that if their class effortlessly beats all other classes then its balanced, HOWEVER if 1 class beats them well then that class is op and needs a nerf.

gw1 we had the ability to make many diverse builds setting up combos as well as had the risk that if your opponent interrupted your combo then you were in trouble. in gw2 your pigeonholed into a few builds and oh you interrupted my skill 3, but that doesnt stop me from using 1,2,4,5 followed by 3 a second later.

End result: We watch these tournys were the shoutcasters scream HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE as two meat tanks play ring around the rosie for several minutes until one player finally succumbs after making repeated multiple mistakes…..

+100000000000000
Its reaaaaaally interestingto watch 2 cele eles beat themselves until forever, or until one makes too many mistakes or gets ganked by 2 DPS in enemy team -.-’

sorry, but if you have a problem with AI builds then you’d have absolutely HATED some GW1 builds, minion masters (atleast until the very late patches) had no limit to the amount of minions they could summon, all they required was a corpse,

in pve this meant that as a MM you only needed your group to get the ball rolling, after that you could pretty much solo the rest of the map :P

plus IMHO spirit ritualists were 10x worse than turret engis,
perma blind mixed with damage that can 2 shot you?

that all being said, i do agree that GW1 pvp generally felt alot better balanced,
if a particular build was annoying you, lets say those vermin Backfire/Empathy mesmers! you could create a build to counter it, maybe a ranger with attack speed increase and Broad Head Arrow (one of my favourite skills in the game)

plus the maps…they were all great and basic, no kitten SKYHAMMER

gw2 is about rerolling the most op class because there is no quick fixes to the classes and there is no point in staying in the class you wanna play.
in few words its a game for fotm rerollers

jihm.2315:

gw2 is about rerolling the most op class because there is no quick fixes to the classes and there is no point in staying in the class you wanna play.
in few words its a game for fotm rerollers

Lol gw1 was more about rolling the fotm meta builds than gw2 is. It was about team spikes for years

Liewec.2896:

sorry, but if you have a problem with AI builds then you’d have absolutely HATED some GW1 builds, minion masters (atleast until the very late patches) had no limit to the amount of minions they could summon, all they required was a corpse,

in pve this meant that as a MM you only needed your group to get the ball rolling, after that you could pretty much solo the rest of the map :P

plus IMHO spirit ritualists were 10x worse than turret engis,
perma blind mixed with damage that can 2 shot you?

that all being said, i do agree that GW1 pvp generally felt alot better balanced,
if a particular build was annoying you, lets say those vermin Backfire/Empathy mesmers! you could create a build to counter it, maybe a ranger with attack speed increase and Broad Head Arrow (one of my favourite skills in the game)

plus the maps…they were all great and basic, no kitten SKYHAMMER

Dude, the forum is about PvP, OP is discussing PvP player…and you come here and talk about GW1 PvE to justify…….what really? To make what point?

The point on your reply which makes a lot of sense is the part in which you talk about builds and counters.
GW1 was all about your own skill, and your build and counters. There was always a counter to every skill (except maybe Rit Weapons…).
GW2 doesn’t have counters, or enough counters to really make a difference in gameplay.

@OP:
you’re right. How is it that the same company that made such an outstanding PvP game managed to do such an awful PvP on GW2 is beyond me…

GW1 was about player and team skill.
GW2 is about OP builds.

So I’m guessing there are some GW1 players who thought they were the kitten in pvp come to gw2 and get owned so it’s clearly not a player skill issue its because the game is stupid….

It’s not that GW2 sPvP doesn’t take player skill to suceed. I think everyone admits to that.

What some/most sPvP players don’t admit is that the skill cap is low. Meaning, the amount of skill needed to succeed doesn’t even register when compared to other PvP games such as GW1 (and even less so compared to other games).

That’s the issue.
What some/most sPvPers think to be a good tactical and skilled game is, for good PvPers that experienced and were successful on other games (and not just GW1), GW2 sPvP is shallow and without many strategical and tactical opportunities.

Also, sPvP is universally considered to be bland and insipid for spectators to watch (and this is even admited by ANET).

Last but not the least, this is not about GW1 pvp being better or worse than GW2 sPvP. This is also not about one player not being able to succeed in GW2 sPvP.
Don’t be so foolish to dismiss criticism’s to sPvP so lightly.

What these complaints are really about is that sPvP is shallow and uninspired. It’s not fun to watch, it’s not fun to shoutcast, it lacks “power-plays” and game-changing strategies and builds and counters.

Again: does it have strategies and counters? Yes it does….but they are so few and so unimportant and shallow WHEN compared to other PvP games.
That’s the real issue.

PS – Also, what self-entitled “competitive PvP game” allows for random PUG teams to play versus full organized teams?
Really?
There’s no excuse for that crap.
I know the reasons – not enough population – but that’s no excuse.

in GW1, creativity rewarded you; a clever build paid dividends in pvp and alliance battles. gear was a non-issue, it all came down to how well you could arrange and use 8 skills, the perfect blend of theory and practice.

in GW2, creativity punishes you, because if you deviate from the meta, you’re using suboptimal DPS/condition cleanse/skill rotation/rune setup/etc. the entire game is a cooldown spamming bump-and-grind, and certain builds are straight-up better than others, so if you deviate from the meta, you’re at an automatic disadvantage.

ahh I understand now, the skillcap is so low that’s why it’s mostly the same players in big tournaments…….. right….

Gear is still a non issue….. I love when people come complain about dumb kitten because they had a bad night or they just aren’t as good as others….. snowflakes…. very special snowflakes.

Bio Flame.4276:

PS – Also, what self-entitled “competitive PvP game” allows for random PUG teams to play versus full organized teams?

The answer is because there arent enough top pvpers to play against, because most people dont care for this games pvp. Its proven itself all of what you said.

NeXeD.3042:

ahh I understand now, the skillcap is so low that’s why it’s mostly the same players in big tournaments…….. right….

Gear is still a non issue….. I love when people come complain about dumb kitten because they had a bad night or they just aren’t as good as others….. snowflakes…. very special snowflakes.

There’s nothing actually hard about this game lol. You just have to know what other professions do and know your own rotations. It’s like WoW, but with dodges. Strategies and rotations come into play, but they aren’t as major of a factor as you would think as the level of skill increases.

Also this “dumb kitten” they’re complaining about have been said since day one and hasn’t been touched on since. Which explains the exponential drop in player base that happened since GW2’s release until now.

echo.2053:

Baldrick.8967:

The only thing the same between GW1 and GW2 is that they share ‘Guild Wars’ in the name.

^^^ this

gw2 was aimed at the sensitive casual playerbase hence why we are drifting from action vs reaction to straight passive play. If the devs actually pay attention to feedback ( extremely questionable) they are flooded with players with the mindset that if their class effortlessly beats all other classes then its balanced, HOWEVER if 1 class beats them well then that class is op and needs a nerf.

gw1 we had the ability to make many diverse builds setting up combos as well as had the risk that if your opponent interrupted your combo then you were in trouble. in gw2 your pigeonholed into a few builds and oh you interrupted my skill 3, but that doesnt stop me from using 1,2,4,5 followed by 3 a second later.

End result: We watch these tournys were the shoutcasters scream HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE as two meat tanks play ring around the rosie for several minutes until one player finally succumbs after making repeated multiple mistakes…..

That’s your e-sports.

Still sounds like a bunch of whiners who can’t hack it. So they say the game doesn’t take that much skill even though they can’t break into the top echelon of pvp…. but of course if you “felt” like it you could right…..

I played GW1 PvP quite successfull(~5x silvercape + many more pooptrims, r11 HA, r9 gladiator), so i think im able to give an founded opinion on this(not for the flexing guys, so dont blame me nerd xD).

First of, i dont think the meta in GW2 is any more cheesy than its used to be in GW1. I can remember so many builds that have been abused in all GW1 gamemodes(basically any straight spikebuild i.e.). The big difference is, a very well played balanced build(which was considered the most skillfull) is potentionally able to beat any cheesy one, due to more flexibilty and possible splits.
GW2 has cheesy builds as well, but i think they arent that present like in GW1. I know there are lots of turreteers around, but thats usually 1 of 5 in a group. While in GW1, the whole teambuild was cheese.

You cant compare both games anyway. GW2 is so much more about rotations than team comps, like byob(bring your own build) in GW1. Whoever splits the best usually wins. Of course you need to win your fights as well, but movement is just so much more fundamental compared to GW1. Its like byob vs. byob, splits everywhere. And this is what i think makes GW2 harder to play. Everyone needs to take descisions where to go all match long, while in GW1, 6/8 Teammembers usually just followed the frontline.
About personal fighting skill, i think both games are quite on pair. There are easy builds and difficult ones, a gw1 blind bot i.e. doesnt need more or less skill than a turreteer.

All in all, i think GW2 needs a tiny bit more skill to play because of GW1 castbars(much easier to watch than animations) and the addressed spliting because of conquest mode. Most GW1 players i know hate conquest, but i personally like it a lot. But i liked byob in GW1 a lot as well.

There is nothing hard about the PvP in this game? I look forward to seeing you winning then next tournament then. Should be easy, right?

NeXeD.3042:

Still sounds like a bunch of whiners who can’t hack it. So they say the game doesn’t take that much skill even though they can’t break into the top echelon of pvp…. but of course if you “felt” like it you could right…..

i speak as a decent pvp player, go and fight a top player. i fought caed with a pal and it completely changed my perspective on tournaments. those 1v1s were like going back to being a noob again. caed is a beast, and the fact that all of the players are at a similar level, in that they can beat and survive caed.

most people come to these forums and call builds faceroll, cele engi and ele especially. sure, they are faceroll if you are facing scrubs- but not if you are facing good players (nothing, apart from maybe phantasam mesmer is faceroll vs good players). all the qq about passive mechanics and blaming of game systems hardly make any of you look good at all. y’all are probably those scrub thieves i squash on a daily basis.

I miss the old GW1 game pvp formats…Not just capture and control. There was capture the flag, king of the hill, deathmatch (not counting courtyard…seriously…the fight is all on one freaking spot and the maps tiny already), etc.

They need more game types for these maps, not just more maps.

There were zero automated passive effects in GW1 and lots in GW2. The map objectives offer less diversity in how to play. GW2 is a simpler game (this is not the same as “GW2 is skillless and easy” – though I’m sure many stupid people will still read it as that..).

They are very different games and don’t necessarily appeal to the same people – for example almost everyone I knew from GW1 left within a few months. I like it but GW1 certainly was a more complex game mechanicly (arguing against this means you didn’t play or understand GW1).

Mister Fluffkin.7358:

I played GW1 PvP quite successfull(~5x silvercape + many more pooptrims, r11 HA, r9 gladiator), so i think im able to give an founded opinion on this(not for the flexing guys, so dont blame me nerd xD).

That is not very successful. R11 HA was subpar, and silvercapes (top 16 in monthly tourneys) wasn’t too hard to achieve. 5 wins – 2 losses would guarantee it.

Anyway, “cheese” builds in GW1 were hated and players who played them would get trashtalked constantly, while in GW2 Abjured and others with celestial cheese builds get praised so much like they are the best. It is very different mentality, and most top GW1 players always refused to play cheese builds.

choovanski.5462:

NeXeD.3042:

Still sounds like a bunch of whiners who can’t hack it. So they say the game doesn’t take that much skill even though they can’t break into the top echelon of pvp…. but of course if you “felt” like it you could right…..

i speak as a decent pvp player, go and fight a top player. i fought caed with a pal and it completely changed my perspective on tournaments. those 1v1s were like going back to being a noob again. caed is a beast, and the fact that all of the players are at a similar level, in that they can beat and survive caed.

most people come to these forums and call builds faceroll, cele engi and ele especially. sure, they are faceroll if you are facing scrubs- but not if you are facing good players (nothing, apart from maybe phantasam mesmer is faceroll vs good players). all the qq about passive mechanics and blaming of game systems hardly make any of you look good at all. y’all are probably those scrub thieves i squash on a daily basis.

Thank you. they all think there is just some simple rotation and then they are pro but " I just don’t feel like playing in those tournaments" or some players pull the “I know players that are better than all those players in tournaments they just don’t feel like doing them” yeah kittening right if they thought they had a chance at winning 50k they would have taken it.

Royal.2693:

Mister Fluffkin.7358:

I played GW1 PvP quite successfull(~5x silvercape + many more pooptrims, r11 HA, r9 gladiator), so i think im able to give an founded opinion on this(not for the flexing guys, so dont blame me nerd xD).

That is not very successful. R11 HA was subpar, and silvercapes (top 16 in monthly tourneys) wasn’t too hard to achieve. 5 wins – 2 losses would guarantee it.

Anyway, “cheese” builds in GW1 were hated and players who played them would get trashtalked constantly, while in GW2 Abjured and others with celestial cheese builds get praised so much like they are the best. It is very different mentality, and most top GW1 players always refused to play cheese builds.

Youre exactly the guy why i wrote this, to strengthen that im able to evaluate about topic. You already disqualified yourself with your kind of talking, because it sounds like you either never played mAt before gw1 was dead or youre one of the Rebel Rising[rawr] guys…

5wins 2losses for silver? Dude, casual pvp guilds didnt even qualified for mAt. You had to play lots of aT´s vs. really good guilds before, to even get the qualificationpoints to compete at mAt. The participation alone separated the good from the bad guilds, all mAt guilds have been successfull…

I dont know about your benchmarks, but what isnt succesfull about getting a 5:2 vs. similar skilled opponents and finishing mAt´s in the top16 of the world? 0o
Anyway, i told its not for the flexing, but to strengthen my opinion on topic.

And what are celestial cheese builds? xD
Sure, its a very good amulet, but that isnt making a build cheese. Plus any Abjured player would problably wreck you with any amulet you “allow” them to play. Im no fanboy by all means, but those guys absolutly earn to be on top. Whats so hard about respecting their performance, no matter what amulet they run? 0o

NeXeD.3042:

choovanski.5462:

NeXeD.3042:

Still sounds like a bunch of whiners who can’t hack it. So they say the game doesn’t take that much skill even though they can’t break into the top echelon of pvp…. but of course if you “felt” like it you could right…..

i speak as a decent pvp player, go and fight a top player. i fought caed with a pal and it completely changed my perspective on tournaments. those 1v1s were like going back to being a noob again. caed is a beast, and the fact that all of the players are at a similar level, in that they can beat and survive caed.

most people come to these forums and call builds faceroll, cele engi and ele especially. sure, they are faceroll if you are facing scrubs- but not if you are facing good players (nothing, apart from maybe phantasam mesmer is faceroll vs good players). all the qq about passive mechanics and blaming of game systems hardly make any of you look good at all. y’all are probably those scrub thieves i squash on a daily basis.

Thank you. they all think there is just some simple rotation and then they are pro but " I just don’t feel like playing in those tournaments" or some players pull the “I know players that are better than all those players in tournaments they just don’t feel like doing them” yeah kittening right if they thought they had a chance at winning 50k they would have taken it.

I’m pretty positive no one here is saying the top players are bad or that this is a game that takes no skill. We all just recognize its flaws and if you compare this game’s advanced techniques and strategies it hardly stacks up with games like SC, DotA, CS: GO, or even LoL (which isn’t a super mechanically centralized game).

Raunchy.6891:

NeXeD.3042:

choovanski.5462:

NeXeD.3042:

Still sounds like a bunch of whiners who can’t hack it. So they say the game doesn’t take that much skill even though they can’t break into the top echelon of pvp…. but of course if you “felt” like it you could right…..

i speak as a decent pvp player, go and fight a top player. i fought caed with a pal and it completely changed my perspective on tournaments. those 1v1s were like going back to being a noob again. caed is a beast, and the fact that all of the players are at a similar level, in that they can beat and survive caed.

most people come to these forums and call builds faceroll, cele engi and ele especially. sure, they are faceroll if you are facing scrubs- but not if you are facing good players (nothing, apart from maybe phantasam mesmer is faceroll vs good players). all the qq about passive mechanics and blaming of game systems hardly make any of you look good at all. y’all are probably those scrub thieves i squash on a daily basis.

Thank you. they all think there is just some simple rotation and then they are pro but " I just don’t feel like playing in those tournaments" or some players pull the “I know players that are better than all those players in tournaments they just don’t feel like doing them” yeah kittening right if they thought they had a chance at winning 50k they would have taken it.

I’m pretty positive no one here is saying the top players are bad or that this is a game that takes no skill. We all just recognize its flaws and if you compare this game’s advanced techniques and strategies it hardly stacks up with games like SC, DotA, CS: GO, or even LoL (which isn’t a super mechanically accentuated game).

It’s exactly what alot of you are saying, it’s hysterical that you think wording it in cute ways makes any difference.

I sincerely doubt you understand 100% of pvp mechanics or strategies.

Also I played both SC2 and CS:GO your insane if you think those are in some way complicated. The biggest difference is in those games one mistake screws you completely, gw2 is more forgiving in the current meta so huge game changing plays are rarer. In CS GO and SC2 big plays have to happen for the game to end.

imaclown.1628:

Raunchy.6891:

NeXeD.3042:

choovanski.5462:

NeXeD.3042:

Still sounds like a bunch of whiners who can’t hack it. So they say the game doesn’t take that much skill even though they can’t break into the top echelon of pvp…. but of course if you “felt” like it you could right…..

i speak as a decent pvp player, go and fight a top player. i fought caed with a pal and it completely changed my perspective on tournaments. those 1v1s were like going back to being a noob again. caed is a beast, and the fact that all of the players are at a similar level, in that they can beat and survive caed.

most people come to these forums and call builds faceroll, cele engi and ele especially. sure, they are faceroll if you are facing scrubs- but not if you are facing good players (nothing, apart from maybe phantasam mesmer is faceroll vs good players). all the qq about passive mechanics and blaming of game systems hardly make any of you look good at all. y’all are probably those scrub thieves i squash on a daily basis.

Thank you. they all think there is just some simple rotation and then they are pro but " I just don’t feel like playing in those tournaments" or some players pull the “I know players that are better than all those players in tournaments they just don’t feel like doing them” yeah kittening right if they thought they had a chance at winning 50k they would have taken it.

I’m pretty positive no one here is saying the top players are bad or that this is a game that takes no skill. We all just recognize its flaws and if you compare this game’s advanced techniques and strategies it hardly stacks up with games like SC, DotA, CS: GO, or even LoL (which isn’t a super mechanically accentuated game).

It’s exactly what alot of you are saying, it’s hysterical that you think wording it in cute ways makes any difference.

I sincerely doubt you understand 100% of pvp mechanics or strategies.

Also I played both SC2 and CS:GO your insane if you think those are in some way complicated. The biggest difference is in those games one mistake screws you completely, gw2 is more forgiving in the current meta so huge game changing plays are rarer. In CS GO and SC2 big plays have to happen for the game to end.

I guess it wasn’t the best idea to try and speak for everyone, but that’s certainly how I feel about it. You can doubt my understanding of this game’s pvp just as I’ll doubt yours, but you don’t have any proof for what you’re saying. Top pvpers of this game have already stated in the past how lackluster and unsatisfying the competitive environment is, and the percentage of players that have left this game since its inception could also make an argument for me.

We can have a back and forth about how actually no game is really that complicated or you can remember that I didn’t say that those games are complicated at all. I just said if you’re comparing any of them to GW2 there’s a lot more depth in them.

Here is Guild Wars 1.

Team Arena (4 man premades). Random Arena (soloqueuers).

Premades vs Premades. Solo queuers vs Solo queuers.

Build Diversity (But it failed because of nerfing). Balanced, IWAY, VimWay, RaoWay, R/N Way, Derv-way, Para-way, Ranger Spike, Necro Spike, Ele Spike, Fast Cast Ele Spike, Spirit Spam, Hex Way, Minion master Way, Monk Spike, and other fotm builds ending in -way and spike

GvG – Guild Ladder not solo ladder. Coz its Guild Wars MFers!

GW2

Solo Ladder (Solo Wars not guild wars)
Capture Points (Sumo Wrestling? Why are the characters aint fat?)

Builds

(Metabattle.com. Solo builds, not team builds)

Matchmaking – Borked way.

A.NET should rename their game to “Solo Wars”.

choovanski.5462:

NeXeD.3042:

Still sounds like a bunch of whiners who can’t hack it. So they say the game doesn’t take that much skill even though they can’t break into the top echelon of pvp…. but of course if you “felt” like it you could right…..

i speak as a decent pvp player, go and fight a top player. i fought caed with a pal and it completely changed my perspective on tournaments. those 1v1s were like going back to being a noob again. caed is a beast, and the fact that all of the players are at a similar level, in that they can beat and survive caed.

most people come to these forums and call builds faceroll, cele engi and ele especially. sure, they are faceroll if you are facing scrubs- but not if you are facing good players (nothing, apart from maybe phantasam mesmer is faceroll vs good players). all the qq about passive mechanics and blaming of game systems hardly make any of you look good at all. y’all are probably those scrub thieves i squash on a daily basis.

In spvp, killing is an optional objective. While the primary objective is circle control.

But in the end conquest will always be a dumbed down version of alliance battles from guild wars 1.

The Primary.6371:

choovanski.5462:

NeXeD.3042:

Still sounds like a bunch of whiners who can’t hack it. So they say the game doesn’t take that much skill even though they can’t break into the top echelon of pvp…. but of course if you “felt” like it you could right…..

i speak as a decent pvp player, go and fight a top player. i fought caed with a pal and it completely changed my perspective on tournaments. those 1v1s were like going back to being a noob again. caed is a beast, and the fact that all of the players are at a similar level, in that they can beat and survive caed.

most people come to these forums and call builds faceroll, cele engi and ele especially. sure, they are faceroll if you are facing scrubs- but not if you are facing good players (nothing, apart from maybe phantasam mesmer is faceroll vs good players). all the qq about passive mechanics and blaming of game systems hardly make any of you look good at all. y’all are probably those scrub thieves i squash on a daily basis.

In spvp, killing is an optional objective. While the primary objective is circle control.

But in the end conquest will always be a dumbed down version of alliance battles from guild wars 1.

It’s actually more like a dumbed down version of hero battles from gw1, just with players instead of heroes.
It still requires more strategy than alliance battles, but less than hero battles.

Royal.2693:

The Primary.6371:

choovanski.5462:

NeXeD.3042:

Still sounds like a bunch of whiners who can’t hack it. So they say the game doesn’t take that much skill even though they can’t break into the top echelon of pvp…. but of course if you “felt” like it you could right…..

i speak as a decent pvp player, go and fight a top player. i fought caed with a pal and it completely changed my perspective on tournaments. those 1v1s were like going back to being a noob again. caed is a beast, and the fact that all of the players are at a similar level, in that they can beat and survive caed.

most people come to these forums and call builds faceroll, cele engi and ele especially. sure, they are faceroll if you are facing scrubs- but not if you are facing good players (nothing, apart from maybe phantasam mesmer is faceroll vs good players). all the qq about passive mechanics and blaming of game systems hardly make any of you look good at all. y’all are probably those scrub thieves i squash on a daily basis.

In spvp, killing is an optional objective. While the primary objective is circle control.

But in the end conquest will always be a dumbed down version of alliance battles from guild wars 1.

It’s actually more like a dumbed down version of hero battles from gw1, just with players instead of heroes.
It still requires more strategy than alliance battles, but less than hero battles.

But as you stated HB had 4 other npcs instead of players. Hence why more lean towards ab even though it had a couple differences.

Still within AB you needed good communication and had it with the system in place within gw1. This in turn meant you also needed coordination and strategy with more than just 5 people.

But both HB and AB required more than just one person on point to gain the full 4 pipe point capture. I wonder what if it was implemented in gw2 conquest.

Both HB and AB also required the team member/members to work out the team build composition. Very different to what is within gw2 conquest with roles / attributes set in stone such as roamers, point defenders, simply not worrying about skill interruption being impactful and having less build variety.

Concluding though, gw2 conquest is a joke compared to guild wars 1 guild vs guild and well any of the other pvp modes except for RA.

8v8s in GW1 was mostly waiting for stuff to happen.

If you didn’t have all 8 first team gvg players ready to go, you could easily spend an hour+ on team prep, just trying to find guests/subs who can play the builds you link them. You could easily wait an hour+ in queue for a top 50 gvg back in 2006/2007. The longest I’ve sat in gvg queue before canceling was nearly 2 hours.

The highest [aB] ever got on the gvg ladder was 25 and the queue times were routinely insane. I don’t even want to think how much worse it was for top 10 guilds who must have spent an eternity in queue. This is one reason why smurfing was so prevalent, because when your guild reaches a certain point on the ladder, you are guaranteed to spend 50x longer waiting for a match than playing matches.

Classes in GW2 are designed to be relatively self sufficient compared to GW1 where you and your teammates were utterly dependent on each other to accomplish anything. Is that a good or a bad thing though? It depends how long you have waited trying to replace your pro infuse and pb interrupt.

Forget about comparing skill caps. The hardest part of 8v8s in GW1 was getting 8 people online at the same time with the bare minimum of knowledge and ability to play your team comp. Retaining those players during failure and attrition is hard.

I had some good times in GW1 and I still remember some of the great teams and players but why anyone would want to go back to that is beyond me.

As broken as GW2’s matchmaking is, you really have to play a game where you can wait 2 hours and not actually get a match. Even a poor quality, one sided roflstomp or a gimmick vs gimmick is better than waiting for a balanced match that never comes around.

Besetment.9187:

snippy snip snip

your comparing two very different queue systems. In gw1 outside ra and maybe another arena ( its been a long time) yes you had to preform parties and deal with elitist yada yada, in gw2 you can solo queue in the ranked arena ( what used to be team) get placed on a team that has no option but accept you. It’d be rather interesting to see an expriment where a player had to assemble a 5 man team prior to queueing where they did not know any of the other players ( not on friends list, not in guilds, not known aquaintances). Yes the gw2 mmr system allows outliers ( people with high mmrs) to have relatively short q times but even then its still a 10+ min wait per game.

Its not really about the queue times as it was about actual roles.

What was the role and function of a pb interrupt in gw1? What is the function and role of a mesmer in gw2?

Liewec.2896:

plus IMHO spirit ritualists were 10x worse than turret engis,
perma blind mixed with damage that can 2 shot you?

Remember what happened to the brainless AI spam of ritualists in GW1? Anet split signet of spirits for PvP, removing the part where this skill summons 3 spirits. They basically took away most of that build’s dmg. They dropped the nerfhammer kitten AI builds in PvP.

In GW1 we even had skills that punished summons, so should an AI meta emerge we had something to fight it.