Guild Wars 2

how to fix hotjoin (official anet custom arenas)

1. hide team scores from spectators
2. hide scoreboard scores and names from spectators
3. replace both “join red team” and “join blue team” buttons with “join game” buttons

notes:
1. spectators refer to both
- new players who just loaded into the map
- existing players who entered spectator mode to force auto balance
2. the “join game” button will always put players into the team with lesser score

discuss, please?
thank you!

my thoughts:
i think these fixes should not be that hard to code.
could any anet programmer tell me otherwise?
thanks for replying!

This is all perfect

A-Net needs to be paying attention

Well, three things came to mind:

1. I think 1 and 2 would destroy the actual function of spectate, particularly the facet of choosing to watch skilled players as a learning experience.

2. No one is going to want to join a game in progress knowing they’ll be shunted onto the losing team, especially if there’s no way of knowing how big the point gap is until you’re in the match.

3. Being forced to use a custom server just so I can reliably play on a team with my friends—without the pressure of a ranked match—does not sound like an enjoyable PvP development.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

This is all perfect

A-Net needs to be paying attention

aye thanks for the support!

Rusc.4978:

Well, three things came to mind:

1. I think 1 and 2 would destroy the actual function of spectate, particularly the facet of choosing to watch skilled players as a learning experience.

2. No one is going to want to join a game in progress knowing they’ll be shunted onto the losing team, especially if there’s no way of knowing how big the point gap is until you’re in the match.

3. Being forced to use a custom server just so I can reliably play on a team with my friends—without the pressure of a ranked match—does not sound like an enjoyable PvP development.

thanks for the feedback, but

1. showing both the team scores and player scores would also allow spectators (both old and new) to join the “winning team” or “potential winning team” more easily.

also, both team scores and personal scores are not a very good indicator of “skilled players” since anyone can just tag along “skilled players” to quickly inflate their personal scores.

2. this is to prevent further team stacking on the team that is already losing behind in term of points.

the only group of people that will be affected by this change, are those who only wish to tag along the winning team in order to farm their wins and progress track rewards.

3. team stacking (the so called “playing together with friends” thing) is one of the most serious problems in hotjoin (anet official severs) and to be honest, real friends dun mind killing one another when they are on opposing teams.

i think these 3 fixes are good, and will make hotjoin a healthier place for new players.

taking away the possibility of enjoying a match with some friend (genuine case scenario, not “pubstomping frienship”) is bad no matter how you look at it and not worth whatever the game gains from it.

it’s a game: i want to play it with a friend/brother/girlfriend why shouldn’t i be able to? sure, friends don’t mind killing each other -usually-, but some do, and especially some mind being forced into it by game restrictions.

1 and 2 would be ok if they added a way to watch rated matches instaed, i would actually prefer spectating a rated match (with a few minutes delay?) rather than a hotjoin 1000x

Sad to say Adozu, but the GW2 community has proven they aren’t mature enough to pick their teams. So no, you shouldn’t be able to play with a friend if it means the game remains in it’s easily exploitable state that turns every match into a one sided point farm.

If the community can’t handle the ability to pick your teams without immediately exploiting the system then removing the aspects of the system is the only course of action to take, regardless of if it’d remove an aspect of the game that is actually encouraged.

It’s the case of a few bad kids ruining everyone else’s fun.

have hotjoins give you no rewards and add a non-ranked version of the soloQ (with the same ruleset) that gives full rewards. Problem solved.

oh and remove skyHAM from genuine soloQ, leave it in the new yoloQ (and put capricorn back in that one)

so we’d be looking at:

un-rewarded hotjoins same as now
rewarded but unranked yoloQ (with all maps in it, possibly less reward than ranked)
regular soloQ (without skyHAM)
regular teamQ

one can dream right?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Rusc.4978:

Well, three things came to mind:

1. I think 1 and 2 would destroy the actual function of spectate, particularly the facet of choosing to watch skilled players as a learning experience.

2. No one is going to want to join a game in progress knowing they’ll be shunted onto the losing team, especially if there’s no way of knowing how big the point gap is until you’re in the match.

3. Being forced to use a custom server just so I can reliably play on a team with my friends—without the pressure of a ranked match—does not sound like an enjoyable PvP development.

thanks for the feedback, but

1. showing both the team scores and player scores would also allow spectators (both old and new) to join the “winning team” or “potential winning team” more easily.

also, both team scores and personal scores are not a very good indicator of “skilled players” since anyone can just tag along “skilled players” to quickly inflate their personal scores.

2. this is to prevent further team stacking on the team that is already losing behind in term of points.

the only group of people that will be affected by this change, are those who only wish to tag along the winning team in order to farm their wins and progress track rewards.

3. team stacking (the so called “playing together with friends” thing) is one of the most serious problems in hotjoin (anet official severs) and to be honest, real friends dun mind killing one another when they are on opposing teams.

i think these 3 fixes are good, and will make hotjoin a healthier place for new players.

I understand where you’re coming from, but I think my counterpoints for 1 and 2 are still valid. What is the point of spectate if I can’t choose who I watch? One of the biggest annoyances with watching tournament streams is the inability to choose which players I spectate.

Your second point might fix team stacking, but again, no one is going to want to join games in progress without being able to see what their disadvantage is going to be. Also, cherry-pickers will simply start waiting in 4v4s or lower until someone is joined to the losing team, and then proceed to join the winning one.

As for your third point, “playing with friends” is not one in the same as team stacking, since stacking implies that the “stackers” are carrying the game. And being on opposing team can be fun—sometimes. But that is not the same thing as being unable to choose where I play because of hotjoin mechanics. It’s going to suck the fun out of playing with friends if I can never play alongside them in normal servers.

Edit: typing is hard.

Ehecatl.9172:

Sad to say Adozu, but the GW2 community has proven they aren’t mature enough to pick their teams. So no, you shouldn’t be able to play with a friend if it means the game remains in it’s easily exploitable state that turns every match into a one sided point farm.

If the community can’t handle the ability to pick your teams without immediately exploiting the system then removing the aspects of the system is the only course of action to take, regardless of if it’d remove an aspect of the game that is actually encouraged.

It’s the case of a few bad kids ruining everyone else’s fun.

If entering a match part way through, I’ll join the losing team every. Single. Time.

It’s sad that so many players like to stack on the winning team or even worse force autobalance to do so.

I think it should simply not be allowed to choose the winning team.

Entering spectator mode at any point in the match and attempting to rejoin active play should force you to the losing team automatically – should be no choice in the matter.

If it is a 5v4 and the team with 5 is say more than 200 (arbitrary number) points in the lead, autobalance should force it to a 4v5 in favour of the losing team. No one in spectate be allowed to join the winning team until the points difference is say less than 100 (subject to change).

All great idea’s!!

One question though, if i wanna play with a friend online just for fun, nothing too competitive? How Am I now meant to get on the same team as my friend? Because there is just a the ‘join’ button and we can’t select sides. Gaming after all is meant to be fun and something social you can do with a friend. Or should we just join soloQ or PuG tpvp and get told how to play and have ppl rage at us because we’re just here for fun, and nothing too competitive,..because you know..gaming is just meant to be for fun..not purely for competition every single time you login.

So how do we get around this?..you know..making it fun for a person and there friend to be on the same side?

Rusc has the right of it. Denying people having fun with friends is anti-gaming..next the government will be telling me I need to forgo personal rights in order to protect national security…kinda doesn’t make sense s when the government puts itself before the person and the game mode is put before the ability to have fun with friends. May as well just call it mode and remove the word game altogether.

Curunen.8729:

If it is a 5v4 and the team with 5 is say more than 200 (arbitrary number) points in the lead, autobalance should force it to a 4v5 in favour of the losing team. No one in spectate be allowed to join the winning team until the points difference is say less than 100 (subject to change).

That would essentially punish people for winning.

Rusc.4978:

Curunen.8729:

If it is a 5v4 and the team with 5 is say more than 200 (arbitrary number) points in the lead, autobalance should force it to a 4v5 in favour of the losing team. No one in spectate be allowed to join the winning team until the points difference is say less than 100 (subject to change).

That would essentially punish people for winning.

Only if the teams are unbalanced in numbers – if it’s equal numbers then this doesn’t take effect.

In any case at least it would ensure reasonably “balanced” fights instead of one team whitewashing the other.

delete hotjoin, introduce unranked SQ

Curunen.8729:

Rusc.4978:

Curunen.8729:

If it is a 5v4 and the team with 5 is say more than 200 (arbitrary number) points in the lead, autobalance should force it to a 4v5 in favour of the losing team. No one in spectate be allowed to join the winning team until the points difference is say less than 100 (subject to change).

That would essentially punish people for winning.

Only if the teams are unbalanced in numbers – if it’s equal numbers then this doesn’t take effect.

In any case at least it would ensure reasonably “balanced” fights instead of one team whitewashing the other.

Your suggestion would make autobalance abuse easier and more prevalent than it currently is, since any one person in an even game would be able to force an autobalance at will.

Even resetting personal score to 0 upon entering spectate wouldn’t discourage people, since rank point earnings aren’t based solely on personal score anymore.

Rusc.4978:

Curunen.8729:

Rusc.4978:

Curunen.8729:

If it is a 5v4 and the team with 5 is say more than 200 (arbitrary number) points in the lead, autobalance should force it to a 4v5 in favour of the losing team. No one in spectate be allowed to join the winning team until the points difference is say less than 100 (subject to change).

That would essentially punish people for winning.

Only if the teams are unbalanced in numbers – if it’s equal numbers then this doesn’t take effect.

In any case at least it would ensure reasonably “balanced” fights instead of one team whitewashing the other.

Your suggestion would make autobalance abuse easier and more prevalent than it currently is, since any one person in an even game would be able to force an autobalance at will.

Even resetting personal score to 0 upon entering spectate wouldn’t discourage people, since rank point earnings aren’t based solely on personal score anymore.

Would not be able to force autobalance unless there was a >200 point (or more, maybe 300) score difference – simply dropping out to spectate won’t force a player to switch unless there’s a significant difference, by which time the match should be over.

I agree it’s a poor band aid, but can you suggest something that would work better?

Curunen.8729:

Rusc.4978:

Curunen.8729:

Rusc.4978:

Curunen.8729:

If it is a 5v4 and the team with 5 is say more than 200 (arbitrary number) points in the lead, autobalance should force it to a 4v5 in favour of the losing team. No one in spectate be allowed to join the winning team until the points difference is say less than 100 (subject to change).

That would essentially punish people for winning.

Only if the teams are unbalanced in numbers – if it’s equal numbers then this doesn’t take effect.

In any case at least it would ensure reasonably “balanced” fights instead of one team whitewashing the other.

Your suggestion would make autobalance abuse easier and more prevalent than it currently is, since any one person in an even game would be able to force an autobalance at will.

Even resetting personal score to 0 upon entering spectate wouldn’t discourage people, since rank point earnings aren’t based solely on personal score anymore.

Would not be able to force autobalance unless there was a >200 point (or more, maybe 300) score difference – simply dropping out to spectate won’t force a player to switch unless there’s a significant difference, by which time the match should be over.

I agree it’s a poor band aid, but can you suggest something that would work better?

My mistake, then. This is why I should not browse the forums when I’m sleep-deprived.

Even with all of its annoyances, I think hotjoin serves its basic intended purpose as a casual PvP environment. It’s not meant to be the epitome of balanced teamfighting, and I think trying to impose strict balancing regulations will demoralize people.

I think the better solution to autobalance/spectate camping is to offer better incentives for participating on a losing team, like a “volunteer” bonus aside from the win bonus given to autobalanced players.

I would even go so far as to suggest giving small but equal rewards for both teams, regardless of win or loss, and perhaps even remove hotjoin matches from counting in the games played/games won section of the PvP tab.

My ideal hotjoin would be a venue to have fun, kill time, and learn the maps, but not much else.

Why not just have the system automatically ghost one player on the team with more players until someone joins the other team? If they are ghosted when the game ends, they get counted as winning regardless of how their team did, just like a volunteer would.

It’ll lead to people getting free wins for doing nothing, but that should be an acceptable cost for enforcing evenly matched games.

A lot of these problems could be alleviated by fixing the 4v5 problems. Easy enough to have a player sit if the teams are unbalanced. Every time someone dies, the next person in line is rotated in at the respawn timer. If someone joins the unbalanced team, the match continues at full strength.

That and spectating. Once the match starts you should be locked out from switching teams.

Both are ideas that have been floating around the forums for some time. Would help ensure competitive play while still keeping it casual enough to enjoy with your friends.

I honestly think that hotjoin just needs to be abolished in some way and the system set up for custom/unranked(solo)/ranked(solo)/team

Sarrs.4831:

I honestly think that hotjoin just needs to be abolished in some way and the system set up for custom/unranked(solo)/ranked(solo)/team

‘’I honestly believe that 8v8 should be removed so the hotjoin population will take more seriously the 5v5 format’’

‘’I honestly believe that the ’’points’’ awareded in the match should be ’’fixed’’ for win or lose’’ .

‘’I believe that the hotjoins should be removed’’

You ’’believe’’ too much m8 , 2 years now :P

How about instead of punishing players, Just normalize rewards.

15s for winning or losing, full rank points for winning or losing.