Guild Wars 2

Becka Williams.4978:

Aberrant.6749:

Becka Williams.4978:

I have a question about hotjoin: Why is someone obligated to sit there, and lose so that you can have more fun testing builds?

If I’m understanding what you mean correctly… it’s not even that people leave games that become even and then imbalance the numbers, the vast majority of games are 3v2 4v3 5v4 etc. with multiple “spectators” who won’t join unless they can get a number advantage (at which point they mash on the join button for the winning team).

Ah. But why would someone want to join a losing team? Maybe the difference between winning and losing should be less? Like, maybe 100 points instead of 300. I wouldn’t care then. And yes, I’d actually play, and not just afk, because I always try when I get autobalanced.

I agree that in hotjoin it shouldn’t matter much who wins or loses. It’s hotjoin… a testing/beginner area. Glad that you try and don’t afk/leave the game when swapped Idk why the latter happens, but it happens frequently right after a player is team swapped, my only guess is that they don’t know that it still counts as a win(?)

On a related side note the few games where I have gotten to play games that started outnumbered and ended as 5v5’s have often had 200++ point comebacks and the initially outnumbered team often winds up winning. People that just outnumber for wins tend to be lower skill and will probably remain that way as they are not learning how to play pvp what so ever. Just zerging doesn’t work in a real match since you won’t have the extra weight or an additional player (as well as communication in a real match would help punish this). But this is what’s getting taught and rewarded to these players in hotjoin. Something should be done for the health of pvp.

Shoot, when I autobalance, it removes the pressure to win, so I just have fun. Tho I admit, I don’t really like being killed, so I tend to kite way more when I autobalance.

Personally I think if they just changed the way swap team works hotjoin can actually be playable. If they could make it that once your in game and you switch to spectate you can t rejoin the game till next round I think hotjoin would be 100%

I don’t think they should do that. Why should the remove swapping teams? Why remove hotjoin?

Even if they altered the teamswap, there would still be the initial outnumber team stacking strategy (which is often the cause of people to feeling the need use teamswaping antics). Just changing that wouldn’t solve the problem.

If you have an idea that lets me:

• Spectate when I’m bored.
• Enter and leave whenever I want without getting punished.
• Lets me join with my friends without punishment.

Then I will support your idea.

runeblade.7514:

If you have an idea that lets me:

• Spectate when I’m bored.
• Enter and leave whenever I want without getting punished.
• Lets me join with my friends without punishment.

Then I will support your idea.

5v5

Click “Ready” to join a random side. (Or the side with the least players)

Click “Spectate” to spectate.

Click “Ready” to join the same side you were on. (Can’t switch teams)

Right click “Join friend in PvP” to join friend in his PvP map. (Not his team)

When your friend is in your party AND your friend is on the team with less OR equal number of players, you will join his team. Otherwise, you will spectate untill you;

Click “Ready” which will do the exact same as line 1.

//—-This was my first attempt to fix hotjoin, let me know if something is missing.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

runeblade.7514:

If you have an idea that lets me:

• Spectate when I’m bored.
• Enter and leave whenever I want without getting punished.
• Lets me join with my friends without punishment.

Then I will support your idea.

5v5

Click “Ready” to join a random side. (Or the side with the least players)

Click “Spectate” to spectate.

Click “Ready” to join the same side you were on. (Can’t switch teams)

Right click “Join friend in PvP” to join friend in his PvP map. (Not his team)

When your friend is in your party AND your friend is on the team with less OR equal number of players, you will join his team. Otherwise, you will spectate untill you;

Click “Ready” which will do the exact same as line 1.

//—-This was my first attempt to fix hotjoin, let me know if something is missing.

Why would I spectate, then rejoin the same team? If the team I’m on is losing, I would probably just leave. Tell me again why I have to stay on a losing team, so you can have more fun. That’s the problem you need to solve.

Simplest fix is go back to 8v8.

runeblade.7514:

If you have an idea that lets me:

• Spectate when I’m bored.
• Enter and leave whenever I want without getting punished.
• Lets me join with my friends without punishment.

Then I will support your idea.

Spectate is a separate function, you must join as a spectator directly from game browser and cannot join a team.

Matches are less than 10 minutes long most of the time, set aside 10 minutes or get lost.

Your friends can play in the same game as you, or you can buy a private arena. There will be no built in support for teamstacking.

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

runeblade.7514:

If you have an idea that lets me:

• Spectate when I’m bored.
• Enter and leave whenever I want without getting punished.
• Lets me join with my friends without punishment.

Then I will support your idea.

5v5

Click “Ready” to join a random side. (Or the side with the least players)

Click “Spectate” to spectate.

Click “Ready” to join the same side you were on. (Can’t switch teams)

Right click “Join friend in PvP” to join friend in his PvP map. (Not his team)

When your friend is in your party AND your friend is on the team with less OR equal number of players, you will join his team. Otherwise, you will spectate untill you;

Click “Ready” which will do the exact same as line 1.

//—-This was my first attempt to fix hotjoin, let me know if something is missing.

Why would I spectate, then rejoin the same team? If the team I’m on is losing, I would probably just leave. Tell me again why I have to stay on a losing team, so you can have more fun. That’s the problem you need to solve.

So you want to spectate, then join the winning team. Kind of how it is now right?
Thats the exact problem I’m trying to solve. I suggest you read the OP

Good ideas Menzies, simple and flexible without short-changing other players.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

runeblade.7514:

If you have an idea that lets me:

• Spectate when I’m bored.
• Enter and leave whenever I want without getting punished.
• Lets me join with my friends without punishment.

Then I will support your idea.

5v5

Click “Ready” to join a random side. (Or the side with the least players)

Click “Spectate” to spectate.

Click “Ready” to join the same side you were on. (Can’t switch teams)

Right click “Join friend in PvP” to join friend in his PvP map. (Not his team)

When your friend is in your party AND your friend is on the team with less OR equal number of players, you will join his team. Otherwise, you will spectate untill you;

Click “Ready” which will do the exact same as line 1.

//—-This was my first attempt to fix hotjoin, let me know if something is missing.

Players should enter into the game in pairs (one on each team) to help keep the teams even. Without that the “random” part would be far less meaningful as it would already be determined that you’ll be joining the team with the fewer number of players.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

runeblade.7514:

If you have an idea that lets me:

• Spectate when I’m bored.
• Enter and leave whenever I want without getting punished.
• Lets me join with my friends without punishment.

Then I will support your idea.

5v5

Click “Ready” to join a random side. (Or the side with the least players)

Click “Spectate” to spectate.

Click “Ready” to join the same side you were on. (Can’t switch teams)

Right click “Join friend in PvP” to join friend in his PvP map. (Not his team)

When your friend is in your party AND your friend is on the team with less OR equal number of players, you will join his team. Otherwise, you will spectate untill you;

Click “Ready” which will do the exact same as line 1.

//—-This was my first attempt to fix hotjoin, let me know if something is missing.

Why would I spectate, then rejoin the same team? If the team I’m on is losing, I would probably just leave. Tell me again why I have to stay on a losing team, so you can have more fun. That’s the problem you need to solve.

So you want to spectate, then join the winning team. Kind of how it is now right?
Thats the exact problem I’m trying to solve. I suggest you read the OP

So, how does your idea solve runaway 5v4s? I’m not going to stay on a losing team. I rarely ever spectate to see who’s doing better. I pick a team, and leave it if they fall to far behind. How does your suggestion prevent that?

Faeyd.5094:

Simplest fix is go back to 8v8.

What this person said.
A 7v8 is less dramatic than a 4v5.

Also, whoever mentioned remove hotjoin. That also means to remove custom arenas because that’s what a hotjoin is. Be stupid to remove hotjoin since they put so much work and effort into it.

Than again, these developers are known to remove hard work and effort they put into things such as QP, glory, glory vendors, etc.

uberkingkong.8041:

Faeyd.5094:

Simplest fix is go back to 8v8.

What this person said.
A 7v8 is less dramatic than a 4v5.

Also, whoever mentioned remove hotjoin. That also means to remove custom arenas because that’s what a hotjoin is. Be stupid to remove hotjoin since they put so much work and effort into it.

Than again, these developers are known to remove hard work and effort they put into things such as QP, glory, glory vendors, etc.

8v8 won’t teach you how or what will work in a 5v5 match, so I agree with them on removing it.

I agree, I don’t think that it needs to be removed altogether. It’s good that there is an unranked area to play/test/learn in. It’s just the current form of hotjoin that’s horrid because of the achievement/reward PvE abusers that have come in specifically to do this outnumbering team rubbish that needs to end.

I have no issues with the new rewards themselves, it brought in new people. That’s good. Unfortunately hotjoin currently encourages/rewards bad behavior and that behavior turns away people who might have had an interest in pvp.

Aberrant.6749:

Zaxares.5419:

I’m not sure that would be a wise move, Aberrant. Removing rewards from Hotjoin is more likely to result in the following:

1. All those autobalancers/team stackers currently in Hotjoin just move into Solo/Team Queue instead. If you think the two modes are bad now, imagine how much worse it would be with even more afkers, quitters or IPHIW types in there.

2. The Hotjoin players just leave PvP altogether. You might think that’s a victory, but it also deprives newbies to the PvP scene of a place to get their feet wet and learn without real consequences, while also still leaving players feeling like they’re being rewarded for their time. Events in GW2 over the last year have made it abundantly clear that players will only stay in a map or game mode if they feel it is profitable to be there.

1. Fine, let them get punished for their bad behavior with dishonored and be unable to play then.
2. They don’t care about pvp, they just want to abuse 5v4 to get PvE rewards. People seeing constant 5v4 etc. does more harm to people actually interested in pvp.

1. Dishonored only kicks in if you quit the match, right? So afkers (the ones who play juuuust enough to avoid the afk detection kick. You know the type I’m talking about) and “rubbish players” would be entirely unaffected.

And once somebody quits, you then have the problem of 4v5/3v4 anyway. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I was told that Autobalance does not apply in Solo/Team Queue? So the people on the shorthanded team have a lousy experience anyway through no fault of their own.

2. Unbalanced teams is a big problem, yes, but I think it would be more effective to encourage people to join/stay on the losing team rather than punish leavers. People stacking teams so that they have the numbers advantage is only one half of the problem; the other, more insidious reason people wait in Spectate is because after a match, you pretty much know who are the good players are. (It’s not hard. Just watch and see who has the Dragon/Phoenix/Shark finishers, or who have “Champion X” as their title.) You then wait next round until you see the skilled players join one side, and then quickly join their team. You are thus pretty much assured of a win, even if you don’t have an initial numbers advantage.

That’s why I’ve suggested in the past including a new buff that gives you double the match rewards (capped at the winner’s usual reward) to anybody who picks “Random” when starting a match. When coupled with the fact that rewards are handed out based on how long you’ve been in the match, this means that if you’re after PvE rewards (as you call it), the smartest thing to do is just instantly hit “Random” when the match starts and then see it out to the end. Teams don’t have to suffer through 4v5 or 3v4, and people who play for the thrill of winning can still make their best effort (and possibly carry their team, depending on how good they are).

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

runeblade.7514:

If you have an idea that lets me:

• Spectate when I’m bored.
• Enter and leave whenever I want without getting punished.
• Lets me join with my friends without punishment.

Then I will support your idea.

5v5

Click “Ready” to join a random side. (Or the side with the least players)

Click “Spectate” to spectate.

Click “Ready” to join the same side you were on. (Can’t switch teams)

Right click “Join friend in PvP” to join friend in his PvP map. (Not his team)

When your friend is in your party AND your friend is on the team with less OR equal number of players, you will join his team. Otherwise, you will spectate untill you;

Click “Ready” which will do the exact same as line 1.

//—-This was my first attempt to fix hotjoin, let me know if something is missing.

Why would I spectate, then rejoin the same team? If the team I’m on is losing, I would probably just leave. Tell me again why I have to stay on a losing team, so you can have more fun. That’s the problem you need to solve.

So you want to spectate, then join the winning team. Kind of how it is now right?
Thats the exact problem I’m trying to solve. I suggest you read the OP

So, how does your idea solve runaway 5v4s? I’m not going to stay on a losing team. I rarely ever spectate to see who’s doing better. I pick a team, and leave it if they fall to far behind. How does your suggestion prevent that?

It doesn’t solve 4v5, because you can’t force a player to play hotjoin.

It solves team switchers, and spectators that wait for a spot in the winning team. Right now there will be less 5v4’s because players have no real reason to try and get into the other team, because it won’t let them. So they will either keep playing, or join a different match.

So, Teamqueue, and solo queue aren’t enough?

Becka Williams.4978:

So, Teamqueue, and solo queue aren’t enough?

Personally I feel YoloQ and Teamq are “official” and hotjoin is casual. The problem now with hotjoin its not really casual its more buggy. I’ve had good game in hotjoin when trying out builds but it was always after 3 games with the same 3-5 people and we where more focused on just fun then xp or win (even though idk why wins matter in hotjoin) so we were ok with making the team even and just letting randoms come in quit/ change sides. Also quitting in hotjoin is not a problem for me because when I’m waiting for Q to pop sometimes I run hotjoin for entertainment and I leave in middle of matches so I can understand people leaving the matches.

Becka Williams.4978:

So, Teamqueue, and solo queue aren’t enough?

So whats your contribution?

Are you trying to ask the vital question that nobody came up with before?
Btw soloq is broken too, is PvE not enough for you?

So Yasha you wanted the 8v8 to be removed in the past …
You and the rest of the monkeys , made a lot of the hotjoin population bitter …
Why the hell we should listen to you ?

Because it makes you unhappy ?
While you freely make unhappy other ppl ?

Edit: Dont throw at my face the silly ‘’the newers ppl will see that and turn OFF from the pvp side’’ .
How many ppl did we have in the PvP side , before and after the April pack ?

Maybe join should be rename to quick play or something and have a description informing play that it is not serious. Many player’s are taking it seriously and its ruining there enjoyment. As it stands right now hj is turning lots of play off spvp.

Aberrant.6749:

uberkingkong.8041:

Faeyd.5094:

Simplest fix is go back to 8v8.

What this person said.
A 7v8 is less dramatic than a 4v5.

Also, whoever mentioned remove hotjoin. That also means to remove custom arenas because that’s what a hotjoin is. Be stupid to remove hotjoin since they put so much work and effort into it.

Than again, these developers are known to remove hard work and effort they put into things such as QP, glory, glory vendors, etc.

8v8 won’t teach you how or what will work in a 5v5 match, so I agree with them on removing it.

I agree, I don’t think that it needs to be removed altogether. It’s good that there is an unranked area to play/test/learn in. It’s just the current form of hotjoin that’s horrid because of the achievement/reward PvE abusers that have come in specifically to do this outnumbering team rubbish that needs to end.

I have no issues with the new rewards themselves, it brought in new people. That’s good. Unfortunately hotjoin currently encourages/rewards bad behavior and that behavior turns away people who might have had an interest in pvp.

You have a wrong statement in what you just said. PvE’ers don’t abuse hotjoins…. PvP’ers abuse hotjoins.
PvE’ers have no clue they are being farmed, no clue about why they keep losing. PvP’ers know full well how to stack team and be on the winning side.

Also, the original purpose of hotjoin wasn’t to mimic tournament play. It was originally designed for people to just mess around in. 8v8 is good for messing around in because 7v8 doesn’t really have too much impact. However, making all games serious 5v5 and serious tournament player, it defeats purpose of having a hotjoin because solo que and team que already are serious enough so why make hotjoin serious. They listened to the wrong people and now look at hotjoin, its horrible state like you said. Back when it was 8v8, (you probably wasn’t born yet) it was in a good state, like I said earlier there was plenty of servers full and players actively playing and enjoying the game.

uberkingkong.8041:

Aberrant.6749:

uberkingkong.8041:

Faeyd.5094:

Simplest fix is go back to 8v8.

What this person said.
A 7v8 is less dramatic than a 4v5.

Also, whoever mentioned remove hotjoin. That also means to remove custom arenas because that’s what a hotjoin is. Be stupid to remove hotjoin since they put so much work and effort into it.

Than again, these developers are known to remove hard work and effort they put into things such as QP, glory, glory vendors, etc.

8v8 won’t teach you how or what will work in a 5v5 match, so I agree with them on removing it.

I agree, I don’t think that it needs to be removed altogether. It’s good that there is an unranked area to play/test/learn in. It’s just the current form of hotjoin that’s horrid because of the achievement/reward PvE abusers that have come in specifically to do this outnumbering team rubbish that needs to end.

I have no issues with the new rewards themselves, it brought in new people. That’s good. Unfortunately hotjoin currently encourages/rewards bad behavior and that behavior turns away people who might have had an interest in pvp.

You have a wrong statement in what you just said. PvE’ers don’t abuse hotjoins…. PvP’ers abuse hotjoins.
PvE’ers have no clue they are being farmed, no clue about why they keep losing. PvP’ers know full well how to stack team and be on the winning side.

Also, the original purpose of hotjoin wasn’t to mimic tournament play. It was originally designed for people to just mess around in. 8v8 is good for messing around in because 7v8 doesn’t really have too much impact. However, making all games serious 5v5 and serious tournament player, it defeats purpose of having a hotjoin because solo que and team que already are serious enough so why make hotjoin serious. They listened to the wrong people and now look at hotjoin, its horrible state like you said. Back when it was 8v8, (you probably wasn’t born yet) it was in a good state, like I said earlier there was plenty of servers full and players actively playing and enjoying the game.

the selfish minority group of serious player ruined 8 vs 8 hotjoin.

I’m gonna drop this here as a… observation. For few days now I’ve been thinking about trying spvp again after a year or so since pve/wvw have become… boring. Back then it was really difficult/frustrating because of unbalanced matches, my lack of skill and mostly the good players were on the same team but it was always 5vs5. I admit I absolutely hate the amulet system because of the fixed stats. Let’s leave it at that.

I have played a little but I count myself as a noob and so I will most likely get hammered in 1vs1, I have no idea how team que is gonna work out, have no friends to play spvp with and try out a tournament? Suure. I was thinking of getting some hotjoin practice but after reading all this I’ve decided to withdraw my interest in the game mode because getting roflstomped for win in a single style game is not my fun. I can get most of those rewards from pve. WvW doesn’t seem that bad after all, even with all the little details like food/guard stacks/locations/etc. and bad update choices.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

So, Teamqueue, and solo queue aren’t enough?

So whats your contribution?

Are you trying to ask the vital question that nobody came up with before?
Btw soloq is broken too, is PvE not enough for you?

My contribution is to ask why you’re trying to fix the part of the game that won’t fix what you’re complaining about. You complain about 5 v 4s, and runaway point totals. How will preventing people from joining the winning team make them want to join the losing team? I don’t do soloqueue much, only when I need to finish off a reward track. I don’t like dragging down other people with my lack of skills in pvp. Hotjoin is perfect for me. I always try to win, and I don’t just afk. I don’t, however, stay on losing teams, unless the tide turns late in the game.

Your suggestion seems to me to make hotjoin worse. You could never join a winning team, unless you’re there from the start. So people would just leave losing teams, and look to start another team. And then the match collapses, because people quit, the winning team gets another 200 points unopposed, and people look at the difference, and say “screw it.” and leave.

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

So, Teamqueue, and solo queue aren’t enough?

So whats your contribution?

Are you trying to ask the vital question that nobody came up with before?
Btw soloq is broken too, is PvE not enough for you?

My contribution is to ask why you’re trying to fix the part of the game that won’t fix what you’re complaining about. You complain about 5 v 4s, and runaway point totals. How will preventing people from joining the winning team make them want to join the losing team? I don’t do soloqueue much, only when I need to finish off a reward track. I don’t like dragging down other people with my lack of skills in pvp. Hotjoin is perfect for me. I always try to win, and I don’t just afk. I don’t, however, stay on losing teams, unless the tide turns late in the game.

Your suggestion seems to me to make hotjoin worse. You could never join a winning team, unless you’re there from the start. So people would just leave losing teams, and look to start another team. And then the match collapses, because people quit, the winning team gets another 200 points unopposed, and people look at the difference, and say “screw it.” and leave.

You obviously haven’t read any of my posts, or the OP.

• I’m not bothered by 5v4 in hotjoin
• Preventing people to join the winning team is a must (not much to say about this if you really missed this point)
• You don’t do SoloQ, you are playing pvp for rewards and you never stay on a losing team. You reply with: “So, Teamqueue, and solo queue aren’t enough?”
• Its funny that players like you seem to be the only problem for my Fix. At least players like you will now leave the match instead of autobalancing and joining the winning team again and again…
  So to answer your question: my fix will slowly remove players like you from hotjoin, to give room for players that actually want to play. And don’t autobalance the teams each day, every day.

Currently, any fix would be better than its current state. Even mine (which was a 1 minute iteration).

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

runeblade.7514:

If you have an idea that lets me:

• Spectate when I’m bored.
• Enter and leave whenever I want without getting punished.
• Lets me join with my friends without punishment.

Then I will support your idea.

5v5

Click “Ready” to join a random side. (Or the side with the least players)

Click “Spectate” to spectate.

Click “Ready” to join the same side you were on. (Can’t switch teams)

Right click “Join friend in PvP” to join friend in his PvP map. (Not his team)

When your friend is in your party AND your friend is on the team with less OR equal number of players, you will join his team. Otherwise, you will spectate untill you;

Click “Ready” which will do the exact same as line 1.

//—-This was my first attempt to fix hotjoin, let me know if something is missing.

This suggestion does not let me:

• Enter and leave whenever I want

I do not support. Why?

Click “Ready”

Zaxares.5419:

Aberrant.6749:

Zaxares.5419:

I’m not sure that would be a wise move, Aberrant. Removing rewards from Hotjoin is more likely to result in the following:

1. All those autobalancers/team stackers currently in Hotjoin just move into Solo/Team Queue instead. If you think the two modes are bad now, imagine how much worse it would be with even more afkers, quitters or IPHIW types in there.

2. The Hotjoin players just leave PvP altogether. You might think that’s a victory, but it also deprives newbies to the PvP scene of a place to get their feet wet and learn without real consequences, while also still leaving players feeling like they’re being rewarded for their time. Events in GW2 over the last year have made it abundantly clear that players will only stay in a map or game mode if they feel it is profitable to be there.

1. Fine, let them get punished for their bad behavior with dishonored and be unable to play then.
2. They don’t care about pvp, they just want to abuse 5v4 to get PvE rewards. People seeing constant 5v4 etc. does more harm to people actually interested in pvp.

1. Dishonored only kicks in if you quit the match, right? So afkers (the ones who play juuuust enough to avoid the afk detection kick. You know the type I’m talking about) and “rubbish players” would be entirely unaffected.

And once somebody quits, you then have the problem of 4v5/3v4 anyway. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I was told that Autobalance does not apply in Solo/Team Queue? So the people on the shorthanded team have a lousy experience anyway through no fault of their own.

2. Unbalanced teams is a big problem, yes, but I think it would be more effective to encourage people to join/stay on the losing team rather than punish leavers. People stacking teams so that they have the numbers advantage is only one half of the problem; the other, more insidious reason people wait in Spectate is because after a match, you pretty much know who are the good players are. (It’s not hard. Just watch and see who has the Dragon/Phoenix/Shark finishers, or who have “Champion X” as their title.) You then wait next round until you see the skilled players join one side, and then quickly join their team. You are thus pretty much assured of a win, even if you don’t have an initial numbers advantage.

That’s why I’ve suggested in the past including a new buff that gives you double the match rewards (capped at the winner’s usual reward) to anybody who picks “Random” when starting a match. When coupled with the fact that rewards are handed out based on how long you’ve been in the match, this means that if you’re after PvE rewards (as you call it), the smartest thing to do is just instantly hit “Random” when the match starts and then see it out to the end. Teams don’t have to suffer through 4v5 or 3v4, and people who play for the thrill of winning can still make their best effort (and possibly carry their team, depending on how good they are).

1. Was saying if they were to go try the same rubbish in solo/team que and just leave whenever (since they can’t do things like spectate->join the winning team or purposefully set up an outnumbered match) they would be punished for it. AFKers are a problem as well I agree and could use some more.

2. It shouldn’t even be an option to choose your side initially in hotjoin. Just random, que people in 2 at a time in hotjoin to try to keep teams even. A bonus for joining a team that has become imbalanced sounds fine to me as long as people can’t just go back to spectate then rejoin to get a bonus (etc.).

I find that outnumbering in hotjoin is the biggest problem currently.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

You obviously haven’t read any of my posts, or the OP.

• I’m not bothered by 5v4 in hotjoin
• Preventing people to join the winning team is a must (not much to say about this if you really missed this point)
• You don’t do SoloQ, you are playing pvp for rewards and you never stay on a losing team. You reply with: “So, Teamqueue, and solo queue aren’t enough?”
• Its funny that players like you seem to be the only problem for my Fix. At least players like you will now leave the match instead of autobalancing and joining the winning team again and again…
  So to answer your question: my fix will slowly remove players like you from hotjoin, to give room for players that actually want to play. And don’t autobalance the teams each day, every day.

Currently, any fix would be better than its current state. Even mine (which was a 1 minute iteration).

Wasn’t the OP complaining about 5v4 in Hotjoin though?

Becka has a good point; preventing players from joining the winning team will not fix the core issue, which is to encourage players to join/stay on the losing team. Otherwise you’ll just get ragequitters, and then what are you going to do? You either need to allow Autobalance (which puts us back at square one), or one team has to play understrength and basically get stomped the rest of the match because nobody is willing to join the losing team. (And that’s if you don’t simply get a cascading effect where every single member of the losing team quits. I see this alllll the time in online competitive shooters.)

If you kick one member of the winning team back to Spectate, you’re guaranteed to kitten off that unlucky player too, because now they lose out on their chance for rewards/playtime.

Aberrant.6749:

1. Was saying if they were to go try the same rubbish in solo/team que and just leave whenever (since they can’t do things like spectate->join the winning team or purposefully set up an outnumbered match) they would be punished for it. AFKers are a problem as well I agree and could use some more work as well.

2. It shouldn’t even be an option to choose your side initially in hotjoin. Just random, que people in 2 at a time in hotjoin to try to keep teams even. A bonus for joining a team that has become imbalanced sounds fine to me as long as people can’t just go back to spectate then rejoin to get a bonus (etc.).

I find that outnumbering in hotjoin is the biggest problem currently.

1. That’s true enough. Although, I have a feeling that if Dishonored starts to bite, then we’d just have the ragequitters switching tactics to afking and playing it half-reared. It would also depend on whether or not these players even play PvP enough for Dishonored to really be a hindrance.

2. Yeah, I agree. The Random bonus should only be applied when you initially join a team. If you go back to Spectate, or switch teams, the bonus disappears. (Although of course, if you get Autobalanced, the Random bonus is moot since it effectively is the same as the Autobalance bonus.) Again, the incentive here is to encourage players to join early (without stacking the teams), and stay the course.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

So, Teamqueue, and solo queue aren’t enough?

So whats your contribution?

Are you trying to ask the vital question that nobody came up with before?
Btw soloq is broken too, is PvE not enough for you?

My contribution is to ask why you’re trying to fix the part of the game that won’t fix what you’re complaining about. You complain about 5 v 4s, and runaway point totals. How will preventing people from joining the winning team make them want to join the losing team? I don’t do soloqueue much, only when I need to finish off a reward track. I don’t like dragging down other people with my lack of skills in pvp. Hotjoin is perfect for me. I always try to win, and I don’t just afk. I don’t, however, stay on losing teams, unless the tide turns late in the game.

Your suggestion seems to me to make hotjoin worse. You could never join a winning team, unless you’re there from the start. So people would just leave losing teams, and look to start another team. And then the match collapses, because people quit, the winning team gets another 200 points unopposed, and people look at the difference, and say “screw it.” and leave.

You obviously haven’t read any of my posts, or the OP.

• I’m not bothered by 5v4 in hotjoin
• Preventing people to join the winning team is a must (not much to say about this if you really missed this point)
• You don’t do SoloQ, you are playing pvp for rewards and you never stay on a losing team. You reply with: “So, Teamqueue, and solo queue aren’t enough?”
• Its funny that players like you seem to be the only problem for my Fix. At least players like you will now leave the match instead of autobalancing and joining the winning team again and again…
  So to answer your question: my fix will slowly remove players like you from hotjoin, to give room for players that actually want to play. And don’t autobalance the teams each day, every day.

Currently, any fix would be better than its current state. Even mine (which was a 1 minute iteration).

Again, why should I stay on the losing team?

I don’t know if it’s fair to say hotjoin is terrible when the whole game is terrible.

when u go spec, you shouldn’t be allowed to join the other team

it’s complete bullcrap what people are pulling

it’s been like this for ages

theyhave no intention of fixing this problem

i want to support this game for esport and push it forward but there are so many problems with this game and the developers just
don’t seem to care

Becka Williams.4978:

Again, why should I stay on the losing team?

I don’t understand why you don’t understand.

If nobody is on the losing team, then there is no game to begin with. If you are asking for a motivation to stay on the winning team, thats quite simple aswell.

You are coming to hotjoin to either test a build, or play some casual pvp. If you are there only to farm your glorious armor and legendary champ title, you are just like any 111 pve farmer expecting rewards for nothing. If this is the case, you could persuade Anet to give the exact rewards to the losing team.

runeblade.7514:

• Enter and leave whenever I want

I do not support. Why?

Click “Ready”

You can enter and leave whenever you want, and the ready button could simply say: “Enter”. As you can see the old ready button let you join the game. Never did I say it required everyone to be ready.

Zaxares.5419:

Wasn’t the OP complaining about 5v4 in Hotjoin though?

Becka has a good point; preventing players from joining the winning team will not fix the core issue, which is to encourage players to join/stay on the losing team. Otherwise you’ll just get ragequitters, and then what are you going to do? You either need to allow Autobalance (which puts us back at square one), or one team has to play understrength and basically get stomped the rest of the match because nobody is willing to join the losing team. (And that’s if you don’t simply get a cascading effect where every single member of the losing team quits. I see this alllll the time in online competitive shooters.)

If you kick one member of the winning team back to Spectate, you’re guaranteed to kitten off that unlucky player too, because now they lose out on their chance for rewards/playtime.

The OP and I are discussing the fact that players manually autobalance to join the winning team. This is also the biggest reason why there is imbalance in the first place. Giving players an option to join the winning team by simply spectating, encourages players to leave the losing team, causing 5v4’s in almost each and every match.

As I said, this was just an example of an idea I came up with 1 minute after reading the OP. Still it’s pointless for spectators to wait for a winning spot. So they will more likely join to play, or leave. (Which is better than – Autobalance winning player -> join winning team).

I think there are multiple ways to fix that problem:

• Give equal, or near equal rewards to hotjoin losers/winners
• Give penaly to team leavers (Mitch’s post below)
• Give a buff to outnumbered players (combat buff)
• Give a buff for joining the outnumbered team (reward buff)
• Prompt spectators to join, because why would they spectate hotjoin (even a 5v1) anyway?

PS: Its not really the system that is broken. Its the players, and the inability from Anet to respond to their greed.

Free loot for evereyone! Because PvP == PvE

I TOTALLY agree with the OP. It is diabolical. You should face a penalty for leaving of swapping like u do in ANY OTHER MMO! Like a 15 mins lockdown of not ebing able to joina new game. It’s utterly shameful

Zaxares.5419:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

You obviously haven’t read any of my posts, or the OP.

• I’m not bothered by 5v4 in hotjoin
• Preventing people to join the winning team is a must (not much to say about this if you really missed this point)
• You don’t do SoloQ, you are playing pvp for rewards and you never stay on a losing team. You reply with: “So, Teamqueue, and solo queue aren’t enough?”
• Its funny that players like you seem to be the only problem for my Fix. At least players like you will now leave the match instead of autobalancing and joining the winning team again and again…
  So to answer your question: my fix will slowly remove players like you from hotjoin, to give room for players that actually want to play. And don’t autobalance the teams each day, every day.

Currently, any fix would be better than its current state. Even mine (which was a 1 minute iteration).

Wasn’t the OP complaining about 5v4 in Hotjoin though?

Becka has a good point; preventing players from joining the winning team will not fix the core issue, which is to encourage players to join/stay on the losing team. Otherwise you’ll just get ragequitters, and then what are you going to do? You either need to allow Autobalance (which puts us back at square one), or one team has to play understrength and basically get stomped the rest of the match because nobody is willing to join the losing team. (And that’s if you don’t simply get a cascading effect where every single member of the losing team quits. I see this alllll the time in online competitive shooters.)

If you kick one member of the winning team back to Spectate, you’re guaranteed to kitten off that unlucky player too, because now they lose out on their chance for rewards/playtime.

The OP is saying that allowing players to force autobalance through spectate and freely choose teams has ruined hotjoin. The 5v4 situation is partly due to this, but is not the main issue.

In the past, before spectate and the forced autobalance meta, if a game went 4v5 there was a reasonable chance that it would become 5v5 within the game or by the next game. Now in nearly every game we have to put up with people manipulating matches by forcing auto balance, as well as pre-game stacking.

If people quit because they have to go do something else or just out of frustration that is totally cool. That is exactly what autobalance is designed to fix. What is not cool is when players move to spectate, force the game to auto balance and then join the winning team. When that happens in nearly every game it is just terrible.

Yasha.5963:

Zaxares.5419:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

You obviously haven’t read any of my posts, or the OP.

• I’m not bothered by 5v4 in hotjoin
• Preventing people to join the winning team is a must (not much to say about this if you really missed this point)
• You don’t do SoloQ, you are playing pvp for rewards and you never stay on a losing team. You reply with: “So, Teamqueue, and solo queue aren’t enough?”
• Its funny that players like you seem to be the only problem for my Fix. At least players like you will now leave the match instead of autobalancing and joining the winning team again and again…
  So to answer your question: my fix will slowly remove players like you from hotjoin, to give room for players that actually want to play. And don’t autobalance the teams each day, every day.

Currently, any fix would be better than its current state. Even mine (which was a 1 minute iteration).

Wasn’t the OP complaining about 5v4 in Hotjoin though?

Becka has a good point; preventing players from joining the winning team will not fix the core issue, which is to encourage players to join/stay on the losing team. Otherwise you’ll just get ragequitters, and then what are you going to do? You either need to allow Autobalance (which puts us back at square one), or one team has to play understrength and basically get stomped the rest of the match because nobody is willing to join the losing team. (And that’s if you don’t simply get a cascading effect where every single member of the losing team quits. I see this alllll the time in online competitive shooters.)

If you kick one member of the winning team back to Spectate, you’re guaranteed to kitten off that unlucky player too, because now they lose out on their chance for rewards/playtime.

The OP is saying that allowing players to force autobalance through spectate and freely choose teams has ruined hotjoin. The 5v4 situation is partly due to this, but is not the main issue.

In the past, before spectate and the forced autobalance meta, if a game went 4v5 there was a reasonable chance that it would become 5v5 within the game or by the next game. Now in nearly every game we have to put up with people manipulating matches by forcing auto balance, as well as pre-game stacking.

If people quit because they have to go do something else or just out of frustration that is totally cool. That is exactly what autobalance is designed to fix. What is not cool is when players move to spectate, force the game to auto balance and then join the winning team. When that happens in nearly every game it is just terrible.

The 5v4 situation is what causes this to happen in the first place. They wouldn’t even have the option to auto->swap if the game wasn’t imbalanced. It’s not just the person who does the swapping rubbish that’s at fault. It’s the people who mash on the join button to set up the 5v4 in the first place, the person doing the swapping, and a-net for rewarding this behavior. It’s all part of the same problem (bad hotjoin behavior being rewarded). There are few players who even out the 5v4 otherwise we would still be seeing them become 5v5’s, but a lot of games never reach that point even without some one doing the spectate->swap at any point in time.

Wow yall taking hotjoins way too serious.
Penalizing people for leaving or going spectate? Its a hotjoin, not a serious game like the tournament games.

For the person that said “why should I stay on losing team”, you shouldn’t, if your getting whooped 300 to 70, you by all rights should leave because game is obviously a stacked game and people on winning team are farming you. I’d leave that game, too smart and know what’s going on, to stay and get farmed.

Problem is that the rewards, it only benefits those that win so everyone plays hotjoin to win rather than to have fun like it was originally intended for. Also that its 5v5 and because its play to win nobody is going to join a game that’s 4v5 60 to 200, to even it out because they just asking for a loss, and people aren’t that dumb to enter game like that. The complaints have risen dramatically about unfair games ever since hotjoins went 5v5, it should go back 8v8, I don’t ever recall any complaints except that people whining people bad at solo que because its hotjoin’s fault for not being like solo que…

Guess what folks, people still bad at solo que, cant put blame on hotjoins not being like solo que anymore.

All you see now is more excuses like “solo que is lame because of skyhammer and spirit watch” you remove those maps…. Another excuse arises. People just like to make excuses for sucking at this game is all. And these developers sure are buying into it and its not making the game any better.

To be honest, the new way to earn rank is one of the problems with hotjoin, because the new system encourages winning over having fun. I personally don’t see why they wasted there time making a whole new way to make rank especially now that rank is so easily earned and that earning rank is faster than before.. 1-1.5k rank a game sure beats stepping up your tag and run game and averaging 300+ ranks points. All that happened was easier ranks and lots of time wasted. I know they listened to a lot of the popular preppy people that whined rank would take forever.. Now you see them whine that rank is too easy. Now you know why not to listen to them. Thanks to them, lots of developer time wasted.

At least for me it’s not so much taking hotjoin seriously, but rewarding bad behavior and deterring people that have an interest in pvp. It’s not healthy for the game if these XvX-1 team jumping games are the first experiences people have with gw2 pvp.

Well then, as I proposed, what really needs to be addressed is some way of incentivising players to join the losing team (or not caring in the first place), and I still think the best way to do that would be by normalising rewards between the winning and losing teams by giving you a special bonus if you pick “Random” at the start. I firmly believe that the main reason why 5v4’s occur is because people don’t want to join the losing team because it means less rewards. If that were made a non-issue, you’d have more people willing to just jump in at the start.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

I think there are multiple ways to fix that problem:

• Give equal, or near equal rewards to hotjoin losers/winners
• Give penaly to team leavers (Mitch’s post below)
• Give a buff to outnumbered players (combat buff)
• Give a buff for joining the outnumbered team (reward buff)
• Prompt spectators to join, because why would they spectate hotjoin (even a 5v1) anyway?

PS: Its not really the system that is broken. Its the players, and the inability from Anet to respond to their greed.

Free loot for evereyone! Because PvP == PvE

1. I support.
2. No support. I want to be able to leave without getting penalized.
3. No Support. I don’t want my 1v1 fight get ruined because some dude wanted to join my team.
4. I support.
5. No support. I want to be able to take a break for a few seconds and come back to play without automatically joining without my knowledge. I want to be able to spectate without a pop-up showing up to disturb me from watching.

Aberrant.6749:

Yasha.5963:

Zaxares.5419:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

You obviously haven’t read any of my posts, or the OP.

• I’m not bothered by 5v4 in hotjoin
• Preventing people to join the winning team is a must (not much to say about this if you really missed this point)
• You don’t do SoloQ, you are playing pvp for rewards and you never stay on a losing team. You reply with: “So, Teamqueue, and solo queue aren’t enough?”
• Its funny that players like you seem to be the only problem for my Fix. At least players like you will now leave the match instead of autobalancing and joining the winning team again and again…
  So to answer your question: my fix will slowly remove players like you from hotjoin, to give room for players that actually want to play. And don’t autobalance the teams each day, every day.

Currently, any fix would be better than its current state. Even mine (which was a 1 minute iteration).

Wasn’t the OP complaining about 5v4 in Hotjoin though?

Becka has a good point; preventing players from joining the winning team will not fix the core issue, which is to encourage players to join/stay on the losing team. Otherwise you’ll just get ragequitters, and then what are you going to do? You either need to allow Autobalance (which puts us back at square one), or one team has to play understrength and basically get stomped the rest of the match because nobody is willing to join the losing team. (And that’s if you don’t simply get a cascading effect where every single member of the losing team quits. I see this alllll the time in online competitive shooters.)

If you kick one member of the winning team back to Spectate, you’re guaranteed to kitten off that unlucky player too, because now they lose out on their chance for rewards/playtime.

The OP is saying that allowing players to force autobalance through spectate and freely choose teams has ruined hotjoin. The 5v4 situation is partly due to this, but is not the main issue.

In the past, before spectate and the forced autobalance meta, if a game went 4v5 there was a reasonable chance that it would become 5v5 within the game or by the next game. Now in nearly every game we have to put up with people manipulating matches by forcing auto balance, as well as pre-game stacking.

If people quit because they have to go do something else or just out of frustration that is totally cool. That is exactly what autobalance is designed to fix. What is not cool is when players move to spectate, force the game to auto balance and then join the winning team. When that happens in nearly every game it is just terrible.

The 5v4 situation is what causes this to happen in the first place. They wouldn’t even have the option to auto->swap if the game wasn’t imbalanced. It’s not just the person who does the swapping rubbish that’s at fault. It’s the people who mash on the join button to set up the 5v4 in the first place, the person doing the swapping, and a-net for rewarding this behavior. It’s all part of the same problem (bad hotjoin behavior being rewarded). There are few players who even out the 5v4 otherwise we would still be seeing them become 5v5’s, but a lot of games never reach that point even without some one doing the spectate->swap at any point in time.

I agree that uneven sides encourage people to force autobalance, but by allowing players to manipulate the game like that it creates a bigger problem. Like you say there is no disincentive for such behaviour, and in fact it is beneficial (at least in terms of rewards and the fun factor of not being rolf-stomped).

This kind of thing just was not an issue before the ability to use spectate to force auto balance was introduced. Now it is the obvious overriding reality of hotjoin. There have been some great suggestions about how to improve the situation; I think just limiting the ability to freely swap teams through spectate would be a good start.

You mention another good point about new players not coming into a game to make a 5v4 a 5v5. This is also an important issue, but one that has been around since launch. The play now button should send people straight into such games. Also, the server numbers are not always accurate, so a game could look full on the server select screen but actually have less than a 5v5 playing. However, that is something that can be looked at after fixing the abuse of spectate to force autobalance.

Make it so people who swap teams after (90 seconds in/one team has 100pts/whatever) always get the loser rewards. won’t 100% fix it, but removes some of the incentive. Plus it encourages people on the losing team to try to fight back to get winner points, rather than just teamswap.

I’d also love to see forced random teams at the start too…one can dream.

Agreed. Hotjoin is hardly useful for even testing builds because its so regularly unbalanced one way of the other. Most people, for whatever reason, are content observing a 5v4 than join on the losing team for some rewards as opposed to none.

It’s just not fun.

Becka Williams.4978:

Again, why should I stay on the losing team?

To challenge yourself,gain more knowledge in conquest and your prey.
isn’t it fun especially in hotjoin were you can choose side?

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

So, Teamqueue, and solo queue aren’t enough?

So whats your contribution?

Are you trying to ask the vital question that nobody came up with before?
Btw soloq is broken too, is PvE not enough for you?

My contribution is to ask why you’re trying to fix the part of the game that won’t fix what you’re complaining about. You complain about 5 v 4s, and runaway point totals. How will preventing people from joining the winning team make them want to join the losing team? I don’t do soloqueue much, only when I need to finish off a reward track. I don’t like dragging down other people with my lack of skills in pvp. Hotjoin is perfect for me. I always try to win, and I don’t just afk. I don’t, however, stay on losing teams, unless the tide turns late in the game.

Your suggestion seems to me to make hotjoin worse. You could never join a winning team, unless you’re there from the start. So people would just leave losing teams, and look to start another team. And then the match collapses, because people quit, the winning team gets another 200 points unopposed, and people look at the difference, and say “screw it.” and leave.

You obviously haven’t read any of my posts, or the OP.

• I’m not bothered by 5v4 in hotjoin
• Preventing people to join the winning team is a must (not much to say about this if you really missed this point)
• You don’t do SoloQ, you are playing pvp for rewards and you never stay on a losing team. You reply with: “So, Teamqueue, and solo queue aren’t enough?”
• Its funny that players like you seem to be the only problem for my Fix. At least players like you will now leave the match instead of autobalancing and joining the winning team again and again…
  So to answer your question: my fix will slowly remove players like you from hotjoin, to give room for players that actually want to play. And don’t autobalance the teams each day, every day.

Currently, any fix would be better than its current state. Even mine (which was a 1 minute iteration).

Again, why should I stay on the losing team?

I think you have a valid point. But the bigger questions are why are there losing (and by this i also imply, outnumbered) teams to begin with, and why do to have the option to switch?

Oh, I didn’t know the only reason I do pvp is to allow you to have more fun. Would it be better for me to stand there, so you can kill me faster? I just stayed on a losing team, and the winning team basically zerged me the nanosecond I tried to do anything. What fun is it to get annihilated by 3 people? Where’s the skill? Where’s my motivation to stay?

Becka Williams.4978:

Oh, I didn’t know the only reason I do pvp is to allow you to have more fun. Would it be better for me to stand there, so you can kill me faster? I just stayed on a losing team, and the winning team basically zerged me the nanosecond I tried to do anything. What fun is it to get annihilated by 3 people? Where’s the skill? Where’s my motivation to stay?

Motivation for me when in hotjoin and join a losing team is to help turn the tide. Communicating and getting somewhat organized can be the only thing that is needed to win a game.