Guild Wars 2

Zoso.8279:

Becka Williams.4978:

Oh, I didn’t know the only reason I do pvp is to allow you to have more fun. Would it be better for me to stand there, so you can kill me faster? I just stayed on a losing team, and the winning team basically zerged me the nanosecond I tried to do anything. What fun is it to get annihilated by 3 people? Where’s the skill? Where’s my motivation to stay?

Motivation for me when in hotjoin and join a losing team is to help turn the tide. Communicating and getting somewhat organized can be the only thing that is needed to win a game.

Motivation for me when in hotjoin and join a losing team is to get some sucker to join the winning team so I can autobalance it.

You know its time for new game modes when existing players create sub genre of the game we have.

Becka Williams.4978:

Oh, I didn’t know the only reason I do pvp is to allow you to have more fun. Would it be better for me to stand there, so you can kill me faster? I just stayed on a losing team, and the winning team basically zerged me the nanosecond I tried to do anything. What fun is it to get annihilated by 3 people? Where’s the skill? Where’s my motivation to stay?

Nobody actually said that you should stay. People are hoping for better balanced teams/matchups and trying to prevent the situation you described from the start. If you don’t stay in a pointless matchup, it’s okay. If you constantly leave or manipulate the system to join the winning team, it isn’t.

A matchup can actually cope well with a few people leaving here and there. But if (felt) 80 % of the players seek to only join the winning team, it leads to less even but empty and pointless matches. Without opponents, no winning team can exist.

I like the occasional Hotjoin when I’m bored of WvW and PvE, want to have a few fights, win and lose, but hadn’t played it in months until yesterday. After >5 matches I lost in a row due to people constantly leaving after one death etc. I was annoyed as bored and left to do something else. Up until this thread I didn’t even know people use the auto-balance system to join the winning team. As others have stated teams could stay full and similar for hours. Yesterday I ended up being alone or with another player most of the time.

I don’t believe joining the winning team is an intelligent strategy, because on the long run, it’s harmful to the game-mode and it is not competitive at all, which Hotjoin is, even if it gave no rewards.

As long as people only care to think about their own motivation and rewards, which they will, it is up to ArenaNet to supply a System that can’t be abused, but is fun for all (PvP and rewards orientated) participants.

Becka Williams.4978:

Oh, I didn’t know the only reason I do pvp is to allow you to have more fun. Would it be better for me to stand there, so you can kill me faster? I just stayed on a losing team, and the winning team basically zerged me the nanosecond I tried to do anything. What fun is it to get annihilated by 3 people? Where’s the skill? Where’s my motivation to stay?

Thats the exact reason why team selection should be removed. Because then you wouldn’t get zerged 24/7

runeblade.7514:

Zoso.8279:

Becka Williams.4978:

Oh, I didn’t know the only reason I do pvp is to allow you to have more fun. Would it be better for me to stand there, so you can kill me faster? I just stayed on a losing team, and the winning team basically zerged me the nanosecond I tried to do anything. What fun is it to get annihilated by 3 people? Where’s the skill? Where’s my motivation to stay?

Motivation for me when in hotjoin and join a losing team is to help turn the tide. Communicating and getting somewhat organized can be the only thing that is needed to win a game.

Motivation for me when in hotjoin and join a losing team is to get some sucker to join the winning team so I can autobalance it.

Because winning hotjoins is how to get all the e-ladies right bro.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Oh, I didn’t know the only reason I do pvp is to allow you to have more fun. Would it be better for me to stand there, so you can kill me faster? I just stayed on a losing team, and the winning team basically zerged me the nanosecond I tried to do anything. What fun is it to get annihilated by 3 people? Where’s the skill? Where’s my motivation to stay?

Thats the exact reason why team selection should be removed. Because then you wouldn’t get zerged 24/7

Yes, and then what happens when you get a runaway lead on the other team, which this one had. Once you’re close to 200 points ahead, you can basically camp the other team’s home area, and zerg them if they try to do anything. What’s your fascination with removing team selection? It’s not going to make people join the losing side anymore than they already do. I think the only way to reduce the “problems” in hotjoin is to reduce the penalty for losing to 100 points.

Someone has to lose…. removing team selection in hotjoin probably won’t ever happen, but it would fix team stacking more than it would hurt it. If your not having fun pvping just don’t do it, go stand in a corner and press 1

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Oh, I didn’t know the only reason I do pvp is to allow you to have more fun. Would it be better for me to stand there, so you can kill me faster? I just stayed on a losing team, and the winning team basically zerged me the nanosecond I tried to do anything. What fun is it to get annihilated by 3 people? Where’s the skill? Where’s my motivation to stay?

Thats the exact reason why team selection should be removed. Because then you wouldn’t get zerged 24/7

Yes, and then what happens when you get a runaway lead on the other team, which this one had. Once you’re close to 200 points ahead, you can basically camp the other team’s home area, and zerg them if they try to do anything. What’s your fascination with removing team selection? It’s not going to make people join the losing side anymore than they already do. I think the only way to reduce the “problems” in hotjoin is to reduce the penalty for losing to 100 points.

My fascination is explained in all my posts above.

If players can’t pick the winning team manually, you will have:

• no best player hand picking other best players team
• no team switching when players get the chance
• more players that actually get there for pvp instead of spectate gambling (so more motivation to win from the start)

To name some from the top of my head.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Oh, I didn’t know the only reason I do pvp is to allow you to have more fun. Would it be better for me to stand there, so you can kill me faster? I just stayed on a losing team, and the winning team basically zerged me the nanosecond I tried to do anything. What fun is it to get annihilated by 3 people? Where’s the skill? Where’s my motivation to stay?

Thats the exact reason why team selection should be removed. Because then you wouldn’t get zerged 24/7

Yes, and then what happens when you get a runaway lead on the other team, which this one had. Once you’re close to 200 points ahead, you can basically camp the other team’s home area, and zerg them if they try to do anything. What’s your fascination with removing team selection? It’s not going to make people join the losing side anymore than they already do. I think the only way to reduce the “problems” in hotjoin is to reduce the penalty for losing to 100 points.

My fascination is explained in all my posts above.

If players can’t pick the winning team manually, you will have:

• no best player hand picking other best players team
• no team switching when players get the chance
• more players that actually get there for pvp instead of spectate gambling (so more motivation to win from the start)

To name some from the top of my head.

So, essentially, you want to turn hotjoin into soloqueue. And we go back to the original question: Soloqueue and teamqueue aren’t enough?

When you enter a hotjoin match you should be automatically assigned a team at the start. The team selection option should be removed entirely, but spectate should remain an option to allow for new players to learn. Also, please bring back 8v8.

Bacon is right.

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Oh, I didn’t know the only reason I do pvp is to allow you to have more fun. Would it be better for me to stand there, so you can kill me faster? I just stayed on a losing team, and the winning team basically zerged me the nanosecond I tried to do anything. What fun is it to get annihilated by 3 people? Where’s the skill? Where’s my motivation to stay?

Thats the exact reason why team selection should be removed. Because then you wouldn’t get zerged 24/7

Yes, and then what happens when you get a runaway lead on the other team, which this one had. Once you’re close to 200 points ahead, you can basically camp the other team’s home area, and zerg them if they try to do anything. What’s your fascination with removing team selection? It’s not going to make people join the losing side anymore than they already do. I think the only way to reduce the “problems” in hotjoin is to reduce the penalty for losing to 100 points.

My fascination is explained in all my posts above.

If players can’t pick the winning team manually, you will have:

• no best player hand picking other best players team
• no team switching when players get the chance
• more players that actually get there for pvp instead of spectate gambling (so more motivation to win from the start)

To name some from the top of my head.

So, essentially, you want to turn hotjoin into soloqueue. And we go back to the original question: Soloqueue and teamqueue aren’t enough?

No, because there needs to be an unranked area for new players/testing/casuals/etc. Hotjoin has become an area where people often go to abuse the game mode for ap/finishers/PvE rewards and is no longer good for those things.

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Oh, I didn’t know the only reason I do pvp is to allow you to have more fun. Would it be better for me to stand there, so you can kill me faster? I just stayed on a losing team, and the winning team basically zerged me the nanosecond I tried to do anything. What fun is it to get annihilated by 3 people? Where’s the skill? Where’s my motivation to stay?

Thats the exact reason why team selection should be removed. Because then you wouldn’t get zerged 24/7

Yes, and then what happens when you get a runaway lead on the other team, which this one had. Once you’re close to 200 points ahead, you can basically camp the other team’s home area, and zerg them if they try to do anything. What’s your fascination with removing team selection? It’s not going to make people join the losing side anymore than they already do. I think the only way to reduce the “problems” in hotjoin is to reduce the penalty for losing to 100 points.

My fascination is explained in all my posts above.

If players can’t pick the winning team manually, you will have:

• no best player hand picking other best players team
• no team switching when players get the chance
• more players that actually get there for pvp instead of spectate gambling (so more motivation to win from the start)

To name some from the top of my head.

So, essentially, you want to turn hotjoin into soloqueue. And we go back to the original question: Soloqueue and teamqueue aren’t enough?

So, ultimately, you are being zerged in hotjoin. But you can’t see the obvious problem described ten times in this thread? Then I will ask my original question once more:

What the hell are you trying to accomplish in this thread? Protect the current state of hotjoin?

Why don’t you try and find the most fundamental problem that exists in hotjoin right now, and present us with YOUR solution to the problem (if you manage to find it all by yourself)..
And if you don’t, refrain from protecting the problem that you fail to see. And absorb our time and effort.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Oh, I didn’t know the only reason I do pvp is to allow you to have more fun. Would it be better for me to stand there, so you can kill me faster? I just stayed on a losing team, and the winning team basically zerged me the nanosecond I tried to do anything. What fun is it to get annihilated by 3 people? Where’s the skill? Where’s my motivation to stay?

Thats the exact reason why team selection should be removed. Because then you wouldn’t get zerged 24/7

Yes, and then what happens when you get a runaway lead on the other team, which this one had. Once you’re close to 200 points ahead, you can basically camp the other team’s home area, and zerg them if they try to do anything. What’s your fascination with removing team selection? It’s not going to make people join the losing side anymore than they already do. I think the only way to reduce the “problems” in hotjoin is to reduce the penalty for losing to 100 points.

My fascination is explained in all my posts above.

If players can’t pick the winning team manually, you will have:

• no best player hand picking other best players team
• no team switching when players get the chance
• more players that actually get there for pvp instead of spectate gambling (so more motivation to win from the start)

To name some from the top of my head.

So, essentially, you want to turn hotjoin into soloqueue. And we go back to the original question: Soloqueue and teamqueue aren’t enough?

So, ultimately, you are being zerged in hotjoin. But you can’t see the obvious problem described ten times in this thread? Then I will ask my original question once more:

What the hell are you trying to accomplish in this thread? Protect the current state of hotjoin?

Why don’t you try and find the most fundamental problem that exists in hotjoin right now, and present us with YOUR solution to the problem (if you manage to find it all by yourself)..
And if you don’t, refrain from protecting the problem that you fail to see. And absorb our time and effort.

It’s fine to not see any problems with hotjoin (although I find that there are). Let him/her give his/her reasons. These boards are here for discussion and I wouldn’t want anyone to feel that they need to be silent just because they disagree.

Discussing different points of view may lead to a recommendation of a better solution in the end.

Aberrant.6749:

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Oh, I didn’t know the only reason I do pvp is to allow you to have more fun. Would it be better for me to stand there, so you can kill me faster? I just stayed on a losing team, and the winning team basically zerged me the nanosecond I tried to do anything. What fun is it to get annihilated by 3 people? Where’s the skill? Where’s my motivation to stay?

Thats the exact reason why team selection should be removed. Because then you wouldn’t get zerged 24/7

Yes, and then what happens when you get a runaway lead on the other team, which this one had. Once you’re close to 200 points ahead, you can basically camp the other team’s home area, and zerg them if they try to do anything. What’s your fascination with removing team selection? It’s not going to make people join the losing side anymore than they already do. I think the only way to reduce the “problems” in hotjoin is to reduce the penalty for losing to 100 points.

My fascination is explained in all my posts above.

If players can’t pick the winning team manually, you will have:

• no best player hand picking other best players team
• no team switching when players get the chance
• more players that actually get there for pvp instead of spectate gambling (so more motivation to win from the start)

To name some from the top of my head.

So, essentially, you want to turn hotjoin into soloqueue. And we go back to the original question: Soloqueue and teamqueue aren’t enough?

No, because there needs to be an unranked area for new players/testing/casuals/etc. Hotjoin has become an area where people often go to abuse the game mode for ap/finishers/PvE rewards and is no longer good for those things.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Oh, I didn’t know the only reason I do pvp is to allow you to have more fun. Would it be better for me to stand there, so you can kill me faster? I just stayed on a losing team, and the winning team basically zerged me the nanosecond I tried to do anything. What fun is it to get annihilated by 3 people? Where’s the skill? Where’s my motivation to stay?

Thats the exact reason why team selection should be removed. Because then you wouldn’t get zerged 24/7

Yes, and then what happens when you get a runaway lead on the other team, which this one had. Once you’re close to 200 points ahead, you can basically camp the other team’s home area, and zerg them if they try to do anything. What’s your fascination with removing team selection? It’s not going to make people join the losing side anymore than they already do. I think the only way to reduce the “problems” in hotjoin is to reduce the penalty for losing to 100 points.

My fascination is explained in all my posts above.

If players can’t pick the winning team manually, you will have:

• no best player hand picking other best players team
• no team switching when players get the chance
• more players that actually get there for pvp instead of spectate gambling (so more motivation to win from the start)

To name some from the top of my head.

So, essentially, you want to turn hotjoin into soloqueue. And we go back to the original question: Soloqueue and teamqueue aren’t enough?

So, ultimately, you are being zerged in hotjoin. But you can’t see the obvious problem described ten times in this thread? Then I will ask my original question once more:

What the hell are you trying to accomplish in this thread? Protect the current state of hotjoin?

Why don’t you try and find the most fundamental problem that exists in hotjoin right now, and present us with YOUR solution to the problem (if you manage to find it all by yourself)..
And if you don’t, refrain from protecting the problem that you fail to see. And absorb our time and effort.

Of course, I already gave my solution. I guess you must’ve missed it. Let me restate it: change the point gap between winning and losing to like 100 points. Then you’ll stop seeing people avoid the losing team. Clear enough?

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Oh, I didn’t know the only reason I do pvp is to allow you to have more fun. Would it be better for me to stand there, so you can kill me faster? I just stayed on a losing team, and the winning team basically zerged me the nanosecond I tried to do anything. What fun is it to get annihilated by 3 people? Where’s the skill? Where’s my motivation to stay?

Thats the exact reason why team selection should be removed. Because then you wouldn’t get zerged 24/7

Yes, and then what happens when you get a runaway lead on the other team, which this one had. Once you’re close to 200 points ahead, you can basically camp the other team’s home area, and zerg them if they try to do anything. What’s your fascination with removing team selection? It’s not going to make people join the losing side anymore than they already do. I think the only way to reduce the “problems” in hotjoin is to reduce the penalty for losing to 100 points.

My fascination is explained in all my posts above.

If players can’t pick the winning team manually, you will have:

• no best player hand picking other best players team
• no team switching when players get the chance
• more players that actually get there for pvp instead of spectate gambling (so more motivation to win from the start)

To name some from the top of my head.

So, essentially, you want to turn hotjoin into soloqueue. And we go back to the original question: Soloqueue and teamqueue aren’t enough?

So, ultimately, you are being zerged in hotjoin. But you can’t see the obvious problem described ten times in this thread? Then I will ask my original question once more:

What the hell are you trying to accomplish in this thread? Protect the current state of hotjoin?

Why don’t you try and find the most fundamental problem that exists in hotjoin right now, and present us with YOUR solution to the problem (if you manage to find it all by yourself)..
And if you don’t, refrain from protecting the problem that you fail to see. And absorb our time and effort.

Of course, I already gave my solution. I guess you must’ve missed it. Let me restate it: change the point gap between winning and losing to like 100 points. Then you’ll stop seeing people avoid the losing team. Clear enough?

Actually, I don’t understand what you mean, could you elaborate?

Edit: Nevermind, I read your previous post again. You are just focused on the reward side of things. I am not sure if that will change the situation since a lot of players force autoswap just because they don’t like getting beaten.

I am not against trying such a solution to see if it works, but it would also have side-effects like further reducing the incentive to compete. The most logical and thorough way to stop players from forcing autobalance to manipulate games is just to not let them “cheat” like that, while also having a reasonable incentive to win in a fair and balanced match- or as close to that ideal as possible.

I actually don’t understand why you are so against removing the ability to let players force autobalanceto manipulate games- something which even a dev on this forum has said is not the intended use of spectate, and was not part of the game until spectate was added.

Yasha.5963:

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Oh, I didn’t know the only reason I do pvp is to allow you to have more fun. Would it be better for me to stand there, so you can kill me faster? I just stayed on a losing team, and the winning team basically zerged me the nanosecond I tried to do anything. What fun is it to get annihilated by 3 people? Where’s the skill? Where’s my motivation to stay?

Thats the exact reason why team selection should be removed. Because then you wouldn’t get zerged 24/7

Yes, and then what happens when you get a runaway lead on the other team, which this one had. Once you’re close to 200 points ahead, you can basically camp the other team’s home area, and zerg them if they try to do anything. What’s your fascination with removing team selection? It’s not going to make people join the losing side anymore than they already do. I think the only way to reduce the “problems” in hotjoin is to reduce the penalty for losing to 100 points.

My fascination is explained in all my posts above.

If players can’t pick the winning team manually, you will have:

• no best player hand picking other best players team
• no team switching when players get the chance
• more players that actually get there for pvp instead of spectate gambling (so more motivation to win from the start)

To name some from the top of my head.

So, essentially, you want to turn hotjoin into soloqueue. And we go back to the original question: Soloqueue and teamqueue aren’t enough?

So, ultimately, you are being zerged in hotjoin. But you can’t see the obvious problem described ten times in this thread? Then I will ask my original question once more:

What the hell are you trying to accomplish in this thread? Protect the current state of hotjoin?

Why don’t you try and find the most fundamental problem that exists in hotjoin right now, and present us with YOUR solution to the problem (if you manage to find it all by yourself)..
And if you don’t, refrain from protecting the problem that you fail to see. And absorb our time and effort.

Of course, I already gave my solution. I guess you must’ve missed it. Let me restate it: change the point gap between winning and losing to like 100 points. Then you’ll stop seeing people avoid the losing team. Clear enough?

Actually, I don’t understand what you mean, could you elaborate?

Edit: Nevermind, I read your previous post again. You are just focused on the reward side of things. I am not sure if that will change the situation since a lot of players force autoswap just because they don’t like getting beaten.

I am not against trying such a solution to see if it works, but it would also have side-effects like further reducing the incentive to compete. The most logical and thorough way to stop players from forcing autobalance to manipulate games is just to not let them “cheat” like that, while also having a reasonable incentive to win in a fair and balanced match- or as close to that ideal as possible.

I actually don’t understand why you are so against removing the ability to let players force autobalanceto manipulate games- something which even a dev on this forum has said is not the intended use of spectate, and was not part of the game until spectate was added.

I agree that’s not enough. There are too many people that just leave the game after getting swapped to the losing team (despite still getting the win rewards). They seem to simply refuse to play at all unless they are on the winning/outnumbering team. The rewards are just one part of the problem.

we should turn hotjoin into a massive free for all.

every one for themselves.

this should solve team stacking issues once and for all.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

we should turn hotjoin into a massive free for all.

every one for themselves.

this should solve team stacking issues once and for all.

I would love a ffa mode… but that would be another mode altogether.

Yasha.5963:

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Becka Williams.4978:

Oh, I didn’t know the only reason I do pvp is to allow you to have more fun. Would it be better for me to stand there, so you can kill me faster? I just stayed on a losing team, and the winning team basically zerged me the nanosecond I tried to do anything. What fun is it to get annihilated by 3 people? Where’s the skill? Where’s my motivation to stay?

Thats the exact reason why team selection should be removed. Because then you wouldn’t get zerged 24/7

Yes, and then what happens when you get a runaway lead on the other team, which this one had. Once you’re close to 200 points ahead, you can basically camp the other team’s home area, and zerg them if they try to do anything. What’s your fascination with removing team selection? It’s not going to make people join the losing side anymore than they already do. I think the only way to reduce the “problems” in hotjoin is to reduce the penalty for losing to 100 points.

My fascination is explained in all my posts above.

If players can’t pick the winning team manually, you will have:

• no best player hand picking other best players team
• no team switching when players get the chance
• more players that actually get there for pvp instead of spectate gambling (so more motivation to win from the start)

To name some from the top of my head.

So, essentially, you want to turn hotjoin into soloqueue. And we go back to the original question: Soloqueue and teamqueue aren’t enough?

So, ultimately, you are being zerged in hotjoin. But you can’t see the obvious problem described ten times in this thread? Then I will ask my original question once more:

What the hell are you trying to accomplish in this thread? Protect the current state of hotjoin?

Why don’t you try and find the most fundamental problem that exists in hotjoin right now, and present us with YOUR solution to the problem (if you manage to find it all by yourself)..
And if you don’t, refrain from protecting the problem that you fail to see. And absorb our time and effort.

Of course, I already gave my solution. I guess you must’ve missed it. Let me restate it: change the point gap between winning and losing to like 100 points. Then you’ll stop seeing people avoid the losing team. Clear enough?

Actually, I don’t understand what you mean, could you elaborate?

Edit: Nevermind, I read your previous post again. You are just focused on the reward side of things. I am not sure if that will change the situation since a lot of players force autoswap just because they don’t like getting beaten.

I am not against trying such a solution to see if it works, but it would also have side-effects like further reducing the incentive to compete. The most logical and thorough way to stop players from forcing autobalance to manipulate games is just to not let them “cheat” like that, while also having a reasonable incentive to win in a fair and balanced match- or as close to that ideal as possible.

I actually don’t understand why you are so against removing the ability to let players force autobalanceto manipulate games- something which even a dev on this forum has said is not the intended use of spectate, and was not part of the game until spectate was added.

I think people want to win because the points are better. I don’t know why people quit when they ab. I LOVE autobalance, because it means I can have fun, and not worry about winning. As for other people, forcing them to play on the losing team isn’t going to make them play. They just won’t join.

Same here. Once I get autobalanced (I always volunteer whenever the prompt comes up), I just yolo it and do my best.

I really do think that the people leaving or going back to Spectate when they get autobalanced is because they don’t realise that if you get autobalanced, you get the winner’s reward even if you didn’t volunteer. I didn’t realise that myself for a long time until somebody in this forum pointed it out to me.

Zaxares.5419:

Same here. Once I get autobalanced (I always volunteer whenever the prompt comes up), I just yolo it and do my best.

I really do think that the people leaving or going back to Spectate when they get autobalanced is because they don’t realise that if you get autobalanced, you get the winner’s reward even if you didn’t volunteer. I didn’t realise that myself for a long time until somebody in this forum pointed it out to me.

i think there are really some players who prefers to roll with the “winning” team regardless of rewards.

there could be some players who simply want to roll with the “superior” team no matter what, so they get to tag along for kills.

how could we solve that problem?

removing the ability to select teams is a first step, but then some people who complain about not able to choose teams.

Please bring back 8v8 game is not balance on 5v5 moba type league of kitten.

How can it be terrible when you can pawn and own the new players into oblivion till your heart contend? xD

yLoon.5289:

How can it be terrible when you can pawn and own the new players into oblivion till your heart contend? xD

well, it would be terrible, because, if the new players cannot stand the pawning, they would cease to play hotjoin all together, and hotjoin may suffer due to lack of fresh blood to pawn, in the end, the veterans will have to pawn one another.

that would be horribly boring yes?

Reward is insignificant compared to the pain being farmed after forced autobalance. I never volunteer.

Just disable team swap should fix this issue almost completely. After that some fine tuning can be done but that is only semi urgent.

It was sarcasm xD
Hi Temos, i think its 2 side of a coin, MAYBE some new players are persistent enough to stay in pvp despite got pawned. =p Either way, pvp is suffer now which lacking of TRUE pvper, admit it guys, u guys just want the reward , most are just PVE players.=X

Anyway, I’ve been stressing so much to Arena, the suckiness of current pvp is because there is not rank segregation between veteran and new players! To solve this issue, Arena pathetically conceal the players rank instead of fixing the problem of auto-match making.

For me, I hate losing in a match, be it hotjoin or soloQ or whatever. Winning is FUN for me. Countless losing matches due to teaming up with 3 new players that did’nt know to cap a point! Got lure and chase opponent like a dog at off point!

You know what? My new fun is, identify new players, pawn them into oblivion.
Despite losing a match. I enjoy killing. I dont mind having fun with veteran players, competitive gameplay is the ultimate gaming experience.

Becka Williams.4978:

I think people want to win because the points are better. I don’t know why people quit when they ab. I LOVE autobalance, because it means I can have fun, and not worry about winning. As for other people, forcing them to play on the losing team isn’t going to make them play. They just won’t join.

Well, the points mean little to me, I just enjoy a good fairly even game- especially if I win!

Anyway, autobalance in itself is great, one of the best innovations ArenaNet bought to pvp. The problem is not with autobalance, but with players now being able to manually balance the game to their liking by using spectate mode.

If a player is getting destroyed in hotjoin its fair enough if they rage quit or whatever, but its not fair if they go to spectate and then rejoin the wining team. That just makes no sense, and indeed it is not the intended use of spectate mode.

I seriously cannot understand why nothing has been done to stop people using spectate in such a way, it is such an obvious flaw in the system, and I cannot imagine that something like this would have been allowed through from beta into launch. Its like the devs just do not care at all about it anymore. Totally weird.

I know the devs have commented before that they have a long list of things to do, but a fundamental system is broken and every player new and old who goes to hotjoin (usually the first experience of spvp right?) has to deal with this really strange and broken game set up. And its not like I am criticizing something that the devs think is working really well (like skyhammer), this is something that a dev has said on the forum months ago is not working as intended.

Vieteriukko.6075:

Reward is insignificant compared to the pain being farmed after forced autobalance. I never volunteer.

Just disable team swap should fix this issue almost completely. After that some fine tuning can be done but that is only semi urgent.

The new reward system is terrible period,
That type of reward system should only be for tournament play, it shouldn’t have been implemented in hotjoin.

Hotjoin is suppose to be fun, the old reward system (rewarded on individual performance) was geared towards having fun. Encouraged more following the team, encouraged fighting off node (your getting points on how well you do, not necessarily if you win).
People back in the hotjoin glory days would fight over by the cannon on raid of Capricorn even though there was no capture node by it, I doubt people even go by that area now, especially now that team sized diminished from 8v8 10v10 to 5v5.

Speaking of 8v8 and 10v10, that encouraged fighting elsewhere besides on capture points, making the game fun. A 5v5 game, you pretty much have to help out the fights on the nodes. Especially when rewards are based on win or loss and no individual performance. 8v8 and 10v10 are also not harshly punished if one team has one more player than the other.

Hotjoin is suppose to be fun, not suppose to force you to get ready for tournaments, which if you don’t want to ever do, than nothing wrong with that.

If anything solo que should be the tournament training grounds, and it is, because team que and solo que aren’t equal, team que doesn’t run all the maps solo que runs, which pretty much makes solo que the training grounds for the more serious team que games (skyhammer and spirit watch should be in team que). Solo que is suppose to be 50% 50% W/L.

If the matchmaking in solo que was working as intended you’d see better results, but obviously its not working as intended because veteran players like myself are experiencing extreme losses such as 16 or 17 games in a ROW. The probability of losing 17 games in a row on a 50 50 W/L ratio is wayyyyyy out of the standard deviation.

All in all, hotjoins are meant to be fun, solo que is the training grounds for tournament play, and team que is where the real tournaments are (even though two team tournament isn’t a real tournament, which has been argued for over a year that they should introduce real in game tournaments besides fake two team tournament, which isn’t a tournament because tournaments require more than two teams.)

uberkingkong.8041:

Vieteriukko.6075:

Reward is insignificant compared to the pain being farmed after forced autobalance. I never volunteer.

Just disable team swap should fix this issue almost completely. After that some fine tuning can be done but that is only semi urgent.

The new reward system is terrible period,
That type of reward system should only be for tournament play, it shouldn’t have been implemented in hotjoin.

Hotjoin is suppose to be fun, the old reward system (rewarded on individual performance) was geared towards having fun. Encouraged more following the team, encouraged fighting off node (your getting points on how well you do, not necessarily if you win).
People back in the hotjoin glory days would fight over by the cannon on raid of Capricorn even though there was no capture node by it, I doubt people even go by that area now, especially now that team sized diminished from 8v8 10v10 to 5v5.

Speaking of 8v8 and 10v10, that encouraged fighting elsewhere besides on capture points, making the game fun. A 5v5 game, you pretty much have to help out the fights on the nodes. Especially when rewards are based on win or loss and no individual performance. 8v8 and 10v10 are also not harshly punished if one team has one more player than the other.

Hotjoin is suppose to be fun, not suppose to force you to get ready for tournaments, which if you don’t want to ever do, than nothing wrong with that.

If anything solo que should be the tournament training grounds, and it is, because team que and solo que aren’t equal, team que doesn’t run all the maps solo que runs, which pretty much makes solo que the training grounds for the more serious team que games (skyhammer and spirit watch should be in team que). Solo que is suppose to be 50% 50% W/L.

If the matchmaking in solo que was working as intended you’d see better results, but obviously its not working as intended because veteran players like myself are experiencing extreme losses such as 16 or 17 games in a ROW. The probability of losing 17 games in a row on a 50 50 W/L ratio is wayyyyyy out of the standard deviation.

All in all, hotjoins are meant to be fun, solo que is the training grounds for tournament play, and team que is where the real tournaments are (even though two team tournament isn’t a real tournament, which has been argued for over a year that they should introduce real in game tournaments besides fake two team tournament, which isn’t a tournament because tournaments require more than two teams.)

but nooooo, they have to go and listen to some minority vocal idiots and now our glorious 8 vs 8 was ruined.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

i think there are really some players who prefers to roll with the “winning” team regardless of rewards.

there could be some players who simply want to roll with the “superior” team no matter what, so they get to tag along for kills.

how could we solve that problem?

removing the ability to select teams is a first step, but then some people who complain about not able to choose teams.

This comes back to my suggestion to giving people who choose “Random” a special buff that functions identically to Autobalance win credit. People who are happy to go on any team as long as they get the same rewards (like me and Becka) will pick it, and teams will fill faster. Players who are only in it to win/stomp weaker teams can still wait in Spectate, but they run the risk that, if they wait too long, the teams will fill due to more people picking Random. In which case, they either leave the match, or wait in Spectate till the next match, which doesn’t affect the people playing since the people waiting in Spectate wouldn’t have contributed either way.

Bring the 8v8 back to hotjoins. Problem solved. A 7v8 is easier to win than a 4v5. No need to make all servers 8v8 but we need some.

xDudisx.5914:

Bring the 8v8 back to hotjoins. Problem solved. A 7v8 is easier to win than a 4v5. No need to make all servers 8v8 but we need some.

I think having the option of both 5v5 and 8v8 is good, as long as both are easy to find (at launch the 5v5 hotjoin servers were hidden at the bottom of the server list).

However, that is probably not going to solve the problem. The main issue is not 4v5 games (although addressing that would also be positive), but players swapping teams willy-nilly to secure a victory and stacking teams at the beginning of a match.

There are of course several factors working together that diminish the fun of hotjoin, but the sore-thumb, the elephant in the room, is the misuse of spectate mode to manipulate games by forcing auto balance.

What I’ve learned from Hotjoin: If you end up on a losing team, just leave and join another game. =/

It’s become more than just the kitten of america, I see it’s going on all over…. even the e-world everyone feels like they are entitled to win… and get the trophy. Sry pumpkin this ain’t standing in a corner and pressing 1, someone has to lose…

xDudisx.5914:

Bring the 8v8 back to hotjoins. Problem solved. A 7v8 is easier to win than a 4v5. No need to make all servers 8v8 but we need some.

8v8 teaches you little to nothing about how to play a 5v5. I agree with them removing it. Putting it back in wouldn’t solve the problems that are currently occurring in hotjoin.

Aberrant.6749:

xDudisx.5914:

Bring the 8v8 back to hotjoins. Problem solved. A 7v8 is easier to win than a 4v5. No need to make all servers 8v8 but we need some.

8v8 teaches you little to nothing about how to play a 5v5. I agree with them removing it. Putting it back in wouldn’t solve the problems that are currently occurring in hotjoin.

casual players like myself do not want to learn how to play 5 vs 5.

casual players like myself like to have fun in 8 vs 8 hotjoin.

they took away the fun with the removal of 8 vs 8 servers and individual scoring.

bring back 8 vs 8 servers and old style individual scoring for these 8 vs 8 servers.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Aberrant.6749:

xDudisx.5914:

Bring the 8v8 back to hotjoins. Problem solved. A 7v8 is easier to win than a 4v5. No need to make all servers 8v8 but we need some.

8v8 teaches you little to nothing about how to play a 5v5. I agree with them removing it. Putting it back in wouldn’t solve the problems that are currently occurring in hotjoin.

casual players like myself do not want to learn how to play 5 vs 5.

casual players like myself like to have fun in 8 vs 8 hotjoin.

they took away the fun with the removal of 8 vs 8 servers and individual scoring.

bring back 8 vs 8 servers and old style individual scoring for these 8 vs 8 servers.

In PvP, ArenaNet should make choices that benefit the pvp community. Removing 8v8 certainly did. There are some new players who actually want to learn PvP, and while hotjoin is still very very far from a place where you can learn the basics, it’s at least not as chaotic as the zergfests of 8v8.

If you are unwilling to learn PvP and want large fights, you should try WvW, might be more fitting for you.

Pretty sure hotjoin isn’t meant to be taken seriously. I mean I have a friend that plays condi gaurdian when he hot joins, and I play 2013 dhummfire necro in hotjoins.

So nah, it’s fine the way it is. A place to go just to mess around.

witcher.3197:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Aberrant.6749:

xDudisx.5914:

Bring the 8v8 back to hotjoins. Problem solved. A 7v8 is easier to win than a 4v5. No need to make all servers 8v8 but we need some.

8v8 teaches you little to nothing about how to play a 5v5. I agree with them removing it. Putting it back in wouldn’t solve the problems that are currently occurring in hotjoin.

casual players like myself do not want to learn how to play 5 vs 5.

casual players like myself like to have fun in 8 vs 8 hotjoin.

they took away the fun with the removal of 8 vs 8 servers and individual scoring.

bring back 8 vs 8 servers and old style individual scoring for these 8 vs 8 servers.

In PvP, ArenaNet should make choices that benefit the pvp community. Removing 8v8 certainly did. There are some new players who actually want to learn PvP, and while hotjoin is still very very far from a place where you can learn the basics, it’s at least not as chaotic as the zergfests of 8v8.

If you are unwilling to learn PvP and want large fights, you should try WvW, might be more fitting for you.

no. removing 8 vs 8 did not help at all.

they removed a fun place, and players learned how to auto balance wars, not play 5 vs 5 tournament mode.

also, 8 vs 8 hotjoin is not WvW. do not lump them together.

before 8 vs 8 was removed, there are already 5 vs 5 servers and some people playing in them. there was no need to remove the official 8 vs 8 servers.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

no. removing 8 vs 8 did not help at all.

they removed a fun place, and players learned how to auto balance wars, not play 5 vs 5 tournament mode.

also, 8 vs 8 hotjoin is not WvW. do not lump them together.

before 8 vs 8 was removed, there are already 5 vs 5 servers and some people playing in them. there was no need to remove the official 8 vs 8 servers.

This is now obviously an off topic issue, if you want 8v8’s back, please go make another thread about it.

WhiteRose.6934:

Pretty sure hotjoin isn’t meant to be taken seriously. I mean I have a friend that plays condi gaurdian when he hot joins, and I play 2013 dhummfire necro in hotjoins.

So nah, it’s fine the way it is. A place to go just to mess around.

Hotjoin is supposed to be an area for build testing and beginners to learn in an unranked area (afaik). It no longer serves that purpose. It’s being abused to get rewards by outnumbering the other team (most frequent tatic). Others are afk/tanking the games just to get the small PvP only rewards. I had a short convo with some one who was doing this. I don’t find this to be fine since these things also have negative effects on anyone who might be looking into starting to play PvP.

Aberrant.6749:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

no. removing 8 vs 8 did not help at all.

they removed a fun place, and players learned how to auto balance wars, not play 5 vs 5 tournament mode.

also, 8 vs 8 hotjoin is not WvW. do not lump them together.

before 8 vs 8 was removed, there are already 5 vs 5 servers and some people playing in them. there was no need to remove the official 8 vs 8 servers.

This is now obviously an off topic issue, if you want 8v8’s back, please go make another thread about it.

it is a related issue since hotjoin is only terrible after the removal of 8 vs 8 hotjoin official anet servers plus the removal of individual scoring, which leads to teams stacking over to the winning team.

yes, i will start a new topic for that.
but this is no way not related to why hotjoin has became terrible.

and you know what’s more terrible?

the developers, they refuse to acknowledge that such problems exist in the official 5 vs 5 anet hotjoin servers.

this is very disappointing.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/New-Spvp-Infrastructure-some-ideas/first#post4362205

This is a my old post about spvp structure, first part about hot join.

bringing back 8vs8 is not the right solution, autobalance + swap team to force autobalance are the main reasons because hot join sux now.

First of all we need a system (like frozen system) to mantain numbers stable for the entire game (5vs5).

After that anet could simply add a soloqueue unranked version for “play now” and other servers free (outside from the unranked matches) for a very fast game.

But autobalance for hotjoin (clearly it’s a bad system) and a fix for umbalanced matches are really important and need priority.

Today, I tried to bring my friend into the PvP world (we had done our dungeon runs for the day, our server is in a WvW mismatch, no world bosses were up, etc). I knew hotjoin would be a rough deal, but I also know that as somebody who has played a bunch of PvP, this friend of mine (not so hot at the PvP, no practice) would get demolished in an arena setting.

I thought: “Ok, we’ll do a few rounds of hotjoin, they will learn that getting blasted with conditions sucks and they should dodge stuff, then they can fix up their build a bit and-”

AS IF. 5 games in a row of 3v5 spectator stacking abuse horsecrap. The only thing they learned is that, to survive as 3 for more than a few seconds, you have to zerg! That’s what the learning and practice mode has become: 3-6 players abusing to win, and everybody else learning PvP is JUNK.

Consider for a moment: the next friend of mine that shows any interest in PvP, I will be taking straight into arenas to learn. Lesson 1 will be: “Hotjoin is for cheaters, never play it”.

If they are decent at their class and fight in wvw well bring them to team arena, you run in to a few good premade but even against them you will have fun. Chances are you will win a couple games

Joining teams should only be in custom arenas. The “regular” servers where people are randomly placed shouldn’t even have the option.

NonToxic.9185:

Today, I tried to bring my friend into the PvP world (we had done our dungeon runs for the day, our server is in a WvW mismatch, no world bosses were up, etc). I knew hotjoin would be a rough deal, but I also know that as somebody who has played a bunch of PvP, this friend of mine (not so hot at the PvP, no practice) would get demolished in an arena setting.

I thought: “Ok, we’ll do a few rounds of hotjoin, they will learn that getting blasted with conditions sucks and they should dodge stuff, then they can fix up their build a bit and-”

AS IF. 5 games in a row of 3v5 spectator stacking abuse horsecrap. The only thing they learned is that, to survive as 3 for more than a few seconds, you have to zerg! That’s what the learning and practice mode has become: 3-6 players abusing to win, and everybody else learning PvP is JUNK.

Consider for a moment: the next friend of mine that shows any interest in PvP, I will be taking straight into arenas to learn. Lesson 1 will be: “Hotjoin is for cheaters, never play it”.

Yeah, this is a big issue. I mean it gets me playing arena more, but the hotjoin game itself has the potential to be a lot of fun.

I don’t think the devs have to reinvent the wheel, its a great game and system, its just that spectate mode “cheating” is out of control.

I think just two changes, which I think are simple, would go a long way towards making hotjoin amazing again.

1) Don’t let players move freely from spectate to an active game. If a player joins as spectator or leaves a game to spectate, they should stay there until the next game starts.

2) At the start of a game randomly assign players to teams. Even if players can swap later in the game it would be ok, but a game needs to start with all players in game assigned to a team, not waiting in spectate to join the team of their choice.

There are other things that could be done to enhance hotjoin’s fun factor, but those two are important for fixing the current glaring problem with hotjoin.

How about the official GW2 servers don’t allow switching once your in a team and private rooms can have it set up the way they want. IDK just an idea.

There is little love for those of my kind in this place, yet I am here to help save them all.
come on people do not take hotjoin seriously, its all about having fun under the sun. as for those accused cheaters, slaves will always be a slaves.