Guild Wars 2

Abjured is incredibly good but it would be so much more fun to watch closer games, so I’d really like to see someone give them a run for their money someday soon.

Here’s how I think it can be done.

1. You need 2 people who can stalemate Wakkey and Phantaram I sincerely doubt you are going to kill either of them 1v1, but you need to at least be able to stalemate the side nodes.

2. You need someone who can keep Toker’s attention Most likely this has to be a LB Ranger or Mesmer. This person might have to be the best player on the team, because you have to be bursty enough that Toker has no choice but to take you out, and survivable (good) enough to not let him do it. This person might want to swap a thing or two in their build to be slightly more survivable.

3. You need 2 people who can beat Fivegauge and Noscoc in a 2v2 Maybe a zerker hambow and a celestial staff elementalist… i really don’t know what the best comp for this is going to be, but it’s gotta happen.

So if you can stalemate their ele’s 1v1 and keep toker’s attention and basically turn the game into a 2v2 vs Nos and Fivegauge, and WIN that 2v2, then you can out rotate them from there by playing man-to-man defense and matching numbers everywhere.

But I don’t think any team that hasn’t been together for at least several months could pull this off. So stick together, teams! Stop trying to change out players every month because you didn’t win… part of the reason you didn’t win is because you change out players every month!! XD

Solstice.1097:

Abjured is incredibly good but it would be so much more fun to watch closer games, so I’d really like to see someone give them a run for their money someday soon.

Here’s how I think it can be done.

1. You need 2 people who can stalemate Wakkey and Phantaram I sincerely doubt you are going to kill either of them 1v1, but you need to at least be able to stalemate the side nodes.

2. You need someone who can keep Toker’s attention Most likely this has to be a LB Ranger or Mesmer. This person might have to be the best player on the team, because you have to be bursty enough that Toker has no choice but to take you out, and survivable (good) enough to not let him do it. This person might want to swap a thing or two in their build to be slightly more survivable.

3. You need 2 people who can beat Fivegauge and Noscoc in a 2v2 Maybe a zerker hambow and a celestial staff elementalist… i really don’t know what the best comp for this is going to be, but it’s gotta happen.

So if you can stalemate their ele’s 1v1 and keep toker’s attention and basically turn the game into a 2v2 vs Nos and Fivegauge, and WIN that 2v2, then you can out rotate them from there by playing man-to-man defense and matching numbers everywhere.

But I don’t think any team that hasn’t been together for at least several months could pull this off. So stick together, teams! Stop trying to change out players every month because you didn’t win… part of the reason you didn’t win is because you change out players every month!! XD

strangely enough youre right.

The thing is the eles don’t have to win the 1 v 1. That means that when you push your 2 into their home to set up for the 2 v 2 vs Nos and hopefully 5g you also have Toker on you which means that you just lost your 2 v 3. Meanwhile, you have an ele that is out kiting your 2 v 1 on him long enough for their 3 v 2 to be won and the snowball to begin. Let’s suppose you just sent 3 to far… so you can keep Toker “occupied” by whatever your proposed “bait” is. It would HAVE to be a thief or a dps guard because anything else WILL die to Toker eventually. Imagine you do get a kill in that fight, Toker can rotate out and + 1 Wakkey at mid giving them mid and Phantaram will be winning a 1 v 1 so that’s a good 2 cap for them still. Or… they can just stall you at home with their other 2 that are alive because they have the sustain, skill, and positioning to just “troll” until they can either regroup or those 1 v 1s are won (or force someone to peel out so they now can turn the fight around). Therefore, your options have to be to push into far… get that kill… AND win your 1 v 1s…. Which could arguably be a warrior or condi ranger to beat a d/d ele. However, Phantaram can rotate faster than what you’ve put to stale mate him so he can go impact a fight sooner and possibly have it won… and if you do then leave your home he can just go decap again with his superior mobility. Moreover, if he just fights at the team fight whatever you have to stalemate him is not as good as a d/d ele in a teamfight (probably) so thats another issue. If its a condi ranger, that should be obvious why, if its a burn guardian thats obvious why, and if its a warrior then thats a target with little survivability when focused.

Then… how do you kill Noscoc? You can’t use condis because he has a lot of clear from himself, transfers, and heals through his teammates. Once death shroud comes into play he has WAY more HP than your squishies and he also has positioning, CC that also does damage, AND plague. You shouldn’t be killing him before he kills someone else, because unlike any other DPS he can actually 100-0 ANY class with his “burst combo” which also allows for his allies to do free damage on the target that can’t even use skills (because of the fears).

Still… supposing you had a god tier 1 v 1 er that can beat a d/d ele… that can also help in a team fight… So warrior… you need a DPS to “bait” Toker but he won’t jump on a dps guard cause he’s not an idiot and he doesn’t need to jump on a thief because he can just harass someone, get jumped himself, survive it, and then help do damage because Nos is now free casting…. Any other DPS he can just jump on and kill or at least harass and turn the focus of 2 of the enemy team to target himself… making Nos or 5g free casting….

I hope i’ve articulated the problems here.
Everything they have can survive outnumbered.
Ele can do everything and with FGS they are WAY faster at rotating than you are. They can even keep up with portal!
They peel for Necro, the god of snowball.
S/d thief cannot be stopped.

In my mind, the ONLY way to beat them is through balance or a PERFECTLY played zerker comp that can just win every fight before they snowball.

I think that yes even though they are good, their comp kind of shows an issue with the celestial/tanky meta.

Solstice.1097:

Abjured is incredibly good but it would be so much more fun to watch closer games, so I’d really like to see someone give them a run for their money someday soon.

Here’s how I think it can be done.

1. You need 2 people who can stalemate Wakkey and Phantaram I sincerely doubt you are going to kill either of them 1v1, but you need to at least be able to stalemate the side nodes.

2. You need someone who can keep Toker’s attention Most likely this has to be a LB Ranger or Mesmer. This person might have to be the best player on the team, because you have to be bursty enough that Toker has no choice but to take you out, and survivable (good) enough to not let him do it. This person might want to swap a thing or two in their build to be slightly more survivable.

3. You need 2 people who can beat Fivegauge and Noscoc in a 2v2 Maybe a zerker hambow and a celestial staff elementalist… i really don’t know what the best comp for this is going to be, but it’s gotta happen.

So if you can stalemate their ele’s 1v1 and keep toker’s attention and basically turn the game into a 2v2 vs Nos and Fivegauge, and WIN that 2v2, then you can out rotate them from there by playing man-to-man defense and matching numbers everywhere.

But I don’t think any team that hasn’t been together for at least several months could pull this off. So stick together, teams! Stop trying to change out players every month because you didn’t win… part of the reason you didn’t win is because you change out players every month!! XD

THM probably could’ve beaten Abjured at some point.

If I was on a team, I’d go back and look at the WTS qualifiers and watch that match up between the two and see what THM did well and improve upon it.

Eura most of what you’re saying is about player skill level. My point was that your team HAS to have that skill level to compete with them. Rotations eventually reach a state of nearly perfect, and then conquest becomes a matter of simply winning even numbered fights. If you can’t win even numbered fights against the Abjured, then you cannot beat them. Your best bet is to stalemate the eles while you try to win 2v2 or 3v3. The person surviving against toker doesn’t have to live forever, they just have to live long enough for the 2v2 against nos/5g is won (again, have to win even numbered fights)

Abjured really shows 2 things:

1. rotation. being able to win even numbered fights allows you to rotate perfectly all the time, getting the 2+ cap and then just matching numbers everywhere til 500. So rotation is only a factor when a team makes mistakes There is no such thing as wow that was a great rotation – no, it’s simply a correct rotation and anything less would have been incorrect.

2. getting on that level requires playing together as a team for some time. then it ALSO requires being able to beat top players in even numbered fights. so…. it’s not likely to happen soon.

another thought though – if your ranged burst is a mesmer with portal, a portal juke might be able to pull out a 2-cap that you can then focus on holding.

I personally think that The Abjured is beatable in even numbered fights. However, once you beat them you won’t necessarily win the outnumbered fight fast enough. Moreover, they have WAY more ability to turn that “even numbered fight” into an outnumbered fight. Whatever Toker is on HAS to be helped by his team. They can try to focus down Nos before Bait goes down but Nos can position and plague, they can try to focus on 5g before Bait goes down but then Nos is probably gonna kill someone. I feel that your are depending on the fact that Toker is sticking on one target and has the inability to rotate. Anway…

It isn’t an issue of can you beat them in even numbered fights, many people do. It’s can you beat them in their outnumbered fights fast enough to snowball and you can’t. It’s can you you beat them and then out rotate them fast enough and you can’t. They are too fast and too sustainy. It isn’t a matter of player skill imo, it is a matter of base game mechanics that they have that other teams don’t have. It is balance. No matter how many fights you win… if you win 9/10 once the snowball starts it is over.

Portal doesn’t work… FGS rotations + innate sustain > Portal.

someone can just run the same comp as them and outplay them right? no? then it’s a player skill issue not a balance issue.

Solstice.1097:

someone can just run the same comp as them and outplay them right? no? then it’s a player skill issue not a balance issue.

Many have tried to run double ele/engy….they all got beaten into submission, Ofc it is a L2P issue..even .the devs know it

A few flaws with yo plan… For starters: your stalemates… Phantaram is extremely good at killing people… You would need a bunker if you didn’t wanna lose that fight…. If you have that bunker, you can’t win the game because bunkers suck at 2v2s and the second someone else rotates into that fight, it’s lost (note even if your guy comes in first, a bunker and a dps will not kill phanta)

Next problem: Toker: currently the only class that can play the role to shut him down is thief (nothing else can both keep up and compete) and since there is no thief currently able to do that (other than muffins) that’s gonna be a big problem for you…

Lastly: necro engi: it’s probably the strongest realistic conquest 2v2 in the game… Noscoc and I won about 40 weeklies in a row with that setup… I have extensive experience playing with that setup and I can explain how we would face any 2v2 matchup (ask if you have questions) the only thing that beats it is necro engi… GL

Imo it comes down to player skill and currently no single team is even remotely close…

exactly, someone needs to be able to stand up to phantaram, someone needs to stand up to toker, and 2 people need to stand up to engi/necro. it’s all skill. if you can win more even numbered fights than you lose then you can out-rotate, and that’s what conquest is period.

The only team that came consistently close was the Absurd. Those few weeks of watching Absurd/Abjured duke it out were amazing. I have to imagine that age restrictions limit some potential juggernaut teams from really going after it because even though they may do well in weeklies and go 4 monthlies, they’ll never get a crack at the big events. I wish I was wrong but have a feeling that’s the case.

So I guess I’m asking, what did absurd do well to compete on abjured’s level?

Solstice.1097:

exactly, someone needs to be able to stand up to phantaram, someone needs to stand up to toker, and 2 people need to stand up to engi/necro. it’s all skill. if you can win more even numbered fights than you lose then you can out-rotate, and that’s what conquest is period.

Implying that nobody ever stands up to these guys in tournaments, they obviously all just run away at the sight of them approaching.

Solstice.1097:

someone can just run the same comp as them and outplay them right? no? then it’s a player skill issue not a balance issue.

Isn’t it an issue when the only way to beat them is to play the same comp, just better? That means you can play better but without the right comp it doesn’t matter.

I find your topic on how to beat them funny but im wondering why?

The NA teams are getting crushed by them but the best EU teams all have given them a run for there money. It easily could of been 2-2 in china but they literally got tripled cap and couldnt take any back.

If were going to be honest, the NA teams overall arent as good/creative as the EU teams and we have a ton more players but were just not as interested in gathering players together for serious pvp tourneys. Heck you still got people crying for solo que when they alone takes away from the “team community” experience.

You want a team to beat the abjured, have the next 100 best players in the game commit to playing with one another in pvp settings. Those guys are great at there builds, there not fighting the best players in the game just the best players signing up for the tourneys.

jportell.2197:

I think that yes even though they are good, their comp kind of shows an issue with the celestial/tanky meta.

Not really. People have just been going about it all wrong. Why fight the best Celestial team comp, with another Celestial team? Fighting fire with fire has never been a good idea.

Similiar to what OP suggested, my theory is to have a hybrid team composition, mixed with two high condi (or ele counter) classes while the rest are three Cele. OR 1 zerk mesmer. 1 cele ele, 1 bunk guardian. A bunk guardian can hold 2 celestial classes for quite a long time, so he just need to be on a contested node or rotating to area you already own, that’s about to get zerged by 1-2 people.

The start rotation can be the following 1 home 1 far rest mid.

In Theory
1) they can’t send anyone to help far or home without risking a handicap elsewhere.
2) By the time they send some one, hopefully the Ele (the solo class at home/far) will already be dead.

The biggest issue with a team like the Abjured is, they don’t have to necessarily be the best in 1v1. Just good enough to hold a 1v1 long enough for their Thief or Warrior to come. The said game is going to be a battle of rotation.

The Abjured’s Counter Play
1) They’re going to rotate their Thief or Warrior to help Ele on home/far because mid will sustain just fine. They might be able to risk a handicapped 3v2 in mid if they play defensively until their Thief/Warrior and/or Ele returns.
2) At least 1 side, either home or far, will contain a 1v1. That 1v1 fight is going to be a deciding factor on where the game is going to go.

Incredibly risky team comp. Not to mention you have to climb the ESL pool just to face the Abjured.
That’s just my 2 copper.. it’s probably rubbish.

they dont even have a warrior

Booms.3952:

they dont even have a warrior

Oh you’re right mb…

Really wish there was a site that actually listed team comp and builds.. forced to watch an old esl tournament.

They would just 1 v 1 the bunker guardian and wait till you had to rotate to help that guard giving them the snowball.

The issue atm is that even if you kill one most team comps can’t catch them and finish them. When they kill someone they can finish and kill your team because double d/d ele with FGS = high mobility, s/d thief = great chasing ability, and when a necro gets on you you are not getting away because of 1. the fears and 2. the fact chill is the last to be cleansed. Which is how they snowball + the deathshroud generation which makes their DPS neigh unkillable.

So, then what you need is the ability to kill them… like I said, perfectly played zerker comp. Which I believe is the best hypothetical comp no matter what.

Besides, any comp you suggest does have to get through everyone else which often times can’t be done. Sure, teams like The Absurd or Dodge or Die or The Hail Mary did alright vs The Abjured, better than a lot of other teams in fact, but if they can’t beat other teams it doesn’t really matter in terms of placing in tournaments.

no need to discuss specifics, the Abjured are basically abusing a broken game mechanic to earn a bit of cash, which isn’t their fault at all. their entire comp revolves around the 2 d/d eles, as stated by them in various interviews. there’s a reason for that – cant counterplay it.

however, cele is really nicely balanced on a few professions like engies, guards and rangers…that’s how cele should play, decent damage, decent sustain. i don’t want those cele specs to be nerfed as well. the only other thing I would do is slightly increase the time between each pulse of slick shoes, so that it’s possible to dodge roll out of it. this would balance out the cele engie, as they have too much cc (no other issues imo).

but on eles, it’s too much damage and best sustain in the game. ham/shoutbow too much damage, and too much sustain. there needs to be a minor nerf to cele stats, maybe 50 attribute points. as well as a small nerf to d/d’s sustain and hambow damage. I don’t think a blanket cele nerf will be good for the game. there are a few profs who are really fun, challenging and rewarding to play as cele, in addition to manageable to counterplay.

I have a lot of respect for people who try to innovate and try different things so they don’t take part in this garbage “meta”. it’s different when you need to make money from it though, of course you’re gonna min-max. I appreciate the devs, I really do. but I really hope they start being more responsive to these things. game needs balancing every 1-3 months if we’re to take pvp seriously.

May I suggest high poison uptime builds? Now there are ways to keep almost perma poison and such build can kill a cele ele/engy quite reliably…just not fast.

They have not huge burst, the killing come from the huge condi pressure followed by thief/ele direct dmg, survive the condi pressure and the direct dmg will be not enough to kill quickly.

The high poison uptime build can kill their side defender, but this depends on how fast their thief rotate towards you at which point you’d need an equally skilled thief to either stop @Toker in his tracks or finish off quickly the side defender whether is the engy or ele.

All in all you’d need a player strong enough to either kill the side defender alone or force him to call for back up , which is @Toker.

-A D/P thief
-A Duellist to kill/pressure home defender
-Bunker support
-Support roamer( can stall opponents on your close and wait for either duellist or thief to come for help)
-Support Offensive

My 2 cents on beating high sustain team comps which I meet frequently and normally face along side my good thief friend ( that comes and kill easily the home defender and their thief ^^)

Solstice.1097:

You need someone who can keep Toker’s attention

Just kill phantaram 1v1 when he pushes your close instead of 1v3ing him like every other idiots.

Nobody can 1v1 phanta when he is on far so they have to zerg him while losing other points.

Also find a god tier burst player that can take out noscoc without getting rekt by toker.

People lose to abjured cuz either DPS roamers suck or they are unable to 1v1 phanta.

glock.6590:

Nobody can 1v1 phanta when he is on far so they have to zerg him while losing other points.

nobody of equal skill can 1v1 a good d/d cele ele. has nothing to do with who the person is.

mistsim.2748:

glock.6590:

Nobody can 1v1 phanta when he is on far so they have to zerg him while losing other points.

nobody of equal skill can 1v1 a good d/d cele ele. has nothing to do with who the person is.

Wrong.

The thing that beats cele ele just doesn’t fit on teams.

A good SD thief could 1v1 Phanta.
Too bad nobody plays SD anymore cuz it’s the most boring build NA.

SobeSoul.6910:

mistsim.2748:

glock.6590:

Nobody can 1v1 phanta when he is on far so they have to zerg him while losing other points.

nobody of equal skill can 1v1 a good d/d cele ele. has nothing to do with who the person is.

Wrong.

The thing that beats cele ele just doesn’t fit on teams.

Mesmer beats cele ele

Mrbig.8019:

SobeSoul.6910:

mistsim.2748:

glock.6590:

Nobody can 1v1 phanta when he is on far so they have to zerg him while losing other points.

nobody of equal skill can 1v1 a good d/d cele ele. has nothing to do with who the person is.

Wrong.

The thing that beats cele ele just doesn’t fit on teams.

Mesmer beats cele ele

Toker beats mesmer.

When there’s only like 10 people on NA who are really good at the game and 5 are on a team and the other 5 hate each other, good luck! #tinygame #drama #esportslol #zambies

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Eurantien.4632:

Mrbig.8019:

SobeSoul.6910:

mistsim.2748:

glock.6590:

Nobody can 1v1 phanta when he is on far so they have to zerg him while losing other points.

nobody of equal skill can 1v1 a good d/d cele ele. has nothing to do with who the person is.

Wrong.

The thing that beats cele ele just doesn’t fit on teams.

Mesmer beats cele ele

Toker beats mesmer.

The Artist Formely Known as Toker doesn’t beat what I’m referring to. That should more or less read thief doesn’t be it. But the match up might be 50/50 considering the class/build has to be 100% efficient with CD usage against the Ele.

maybe this is where a PU phantasm power mesmer could have a legit place in conquest. it beats thief and puts out huge damage while staying survivable.

Solstice.1097:

maybe this is where a PU phantasm power mesmer could have a legit place in conquest. it beats thief and puts out huge damage while staying survivable.

Except it is immediately destroyed by Wakkey/Phanta AOE damage.

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

maybe this is where a PU phantasm power mesmer could have a legit place in conquest. it beats thief and puts out huge damage while staying survivable.

Except it is immediately destroyed by Wakkey/Phanta AOE damage.

not 100% sure that’s the case but even so, his role would not be to fight elementalists in most cases.

the real problem is, there is literally no one dedicated to this game to come up with a strategy, practice it, then execute it with precision against the Abjured. Mainly for the reasons of 1) not many teams 2) stale meta and competition 2) the amount of players on the high tier scene (im talking about when its off season, and half the community disappears till the next tourney) 3) no REAL practice options available (besides community driven scrims), because of matchmaking, no leagues, no seasons, and no teams qing into ranked.

Radioactive has been trying to test out new comps and strats in Ranked if we could not find a scrim, and we met solo q after solo q…. Besides dueling, 2v2s, and mentally thinking about rotations and openers, we cannot get the real practice in at all…. stupid game and scene.

Solstice.1097:

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

maybe this is where a PU phantasm power mesmer could have a legit place in conquest. it beats thief and puts out huge damage while staying survivable.

Except it is immediately destroyed by Wakkey/Phanta AOE damage.

not 100% sure that’s the case but even so, his role would not be to fight elementalists in most cases.

It would be to fight magic toker, that he could never catch.

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

maybe this is where a PU phantasm power mesmer could have a legit place in conquest. it beats thief and puts out huge damage while staying survivable.

Except it is immediately destroyed by Wakkey/Phanta AOE damage.

not 100% sure that’s the case but even so, his role would not be to fight elementalists in most cases.

It would be to fight magic toker, that he could never catch.

his real role is to put a lot of DPS on nos and fivegauge so that they will die too quickly 2v3 if toker leaves the point, so toker has to stay. if he leaves to +1 a side node you have to quickly kill engi and necro and cap because you’re going to have an ele and thf collapse on you shortly. if you can threaten to take out engi and necro then toker has to stay and help. that’s the idea anyway.

Solstice.1097:

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

maybe this is where a PU phantasm power mesmer could have a legit place in conquest. it beats thief and puts out huge damage while staying survivable.

Except it is immediately destroyed by Wakkey/Phanta AOE damage.

not 100% sure that’s the case but even so, his role would not be to fight elementalists in most cases.

It would be to fight magic toker, that he could never catch.

his real role is to put a lot of DPS on nos and fivegauge so that they will die too quickly 2v3 if toker leaves the point, so toker has to stay. if he leaves to +1 a side node you have to quickly kill engi and necro and cap because you’re going to have an ele and thf collapse on you shortly. if you can threaten to take out engi and necro then toker has to stay and help. that’s the idea anyway.

And the amount of AOE pressure 5 guage puts out on his own. Let alone with NOS. Even a traited phantasm build will not survive that much aoe pressure. AOE spam is part of why mesmers were removed from the meta over a year ago NA (Just now are they starting to creep back in.)

Also another thing you are completely missing, a PU mesmer. I don’t care if he is power PU, condi, PU or anything else. That is the most useless build in a conquest mode. Sure mesmers are running torch right now but that is to help them set up their shatter bursts not for the effects of PU.

Lastly if a “power phantasm PU mesmer” were to try and help counter the abjured, he would be terrible as a phantasm mesmer, terrible as a power mesmer, and be a PU mesmer. The amount of traits he would have to take to make “Power phantasm PU” work, are just not available.

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

maybe this is where a PU phantasm power mesmer could have a legit place in conquest. it beats thief and puts out huge damage while staying survivable.

Except it is immediately destroyed by Wakkey/Phanta AOE damage.

not 100% sure that’s the case but even so, his role would not be to fight elementalists in most cases.

It would be to fight magic toker, that he could never catch.

his real role is to put a lot of DPS on nos and fivegauge so that they will die too quickly 2v3 if toker leaves the point, so toker has to stay. if he leaves to +1 a side node you have to quickly kill engi and necro and cap because you’re going to have an ele and thf collapse on you shortly. if you can threaten to take out engi and necro then toker has to stay and help. that’s the idea anyway.

And the amount of AOE pressure 5 guage puts out on his own. Let alone with NOS. Even a traited phantasm build will not survive that much aoe pressure. AOE spam is part of why mesmers were removed from the meta over a year ago NA (Just now are they starting to creep back in.)

Also another thing you are completely missing, a PU mesmer. I don’t care if he is power PU, condi, PU or anything else. That is the most useless build in a conquest mode. Sure mesmers are running torch right now but that is to help them set up their shatter bursts not for the effects of PU.

Lastly if a “power phantasm PU mesmer” were to try and help counter the abjured, he would be terrible as a phantasm mesmer, terrible as a power mesmer, and be a PU mesmer. The amount of traits he would have to take to make “Power phantasm PU” work, are just not available.

this post isn’t about PU mesmers. that was just an afterthought about a class that can add pressure to the already existing 2v2 while still surviving vs toker

Solstice.1097:

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

maybe this is where a PU phantasm power mesmer could have a legit place in conquest. it beats thief and puts out huge damage while staying survivable.

Except it is immediately destroyed by Wakkey/Phanta AOE damage.

not 100% sure that’s the case but even so, his role would not be to fight elementalists in most cases.

It would be to fight magic toker, that he could never catch.

his real role is to put a lot of DPS on nos and fivegauge so that they will die too quickly 2v3 if toker leaves the point, so toker has to stay. if he leaves to +1 a side node you have to quickly kill engi and necro and cap because you’re going to have an ele and thf collapse on you shortly. if you can threaten to take out engi and necro then toker has to stay and help. that’s the idea anyway.

And the amount of AOE pressure 5 guage puts out on his own. Let alone with NOS. Even a traited phantasm build will not survive that much aoe pressure. AOE spam is part of why mesmers were removed from the meta over a year ago NA (Just now are they starting to creep back in.)

Also another thing you are completely missing, a PU mesmer. I don’t care if he is power PU, condi, PU or anything else. That is the most useless build in a conquest mode. Sure mesmers are running torch right now but that is to help them set up their shatter bursts not for the effects of PU.

Lastly if a “power phantasm PU mesmer” were to try and help counter the abjured, he would be terrible as a phantasm mesmer, terrible as a power mesmer, and be a PU mesmer. The amount of traits he would have to take to make “Power phantasm PU” work, are just not available.

this post isn’t about PU mesmers. that was just an afterthought about a class that can add pressure to the already existing 2v2 while still surviving vs toker

Maybe they could survive vs toker, but the amount of AOE pressure 5guage and nos put out alone in said fight would nullify anything useful that mesmer is doing.

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

maybe this is where a PU phantasm power mesmer could have a legit place in conquest. it beats thief and puts out huge damage while staying survivable.

Except it is immediately destroyed by Wakkey/Phanta AOE damage.

not 100% sure that’s the case but even so, his role would not be to fight elementalists in most cases.

It would be to fight magic toker, that he could never catch.

his real role is to put a lot of DPS on nos and fivegauge so that they will die too quickly 2v3 if toker leaves the point, so toker has to stay. if he leaves to +1 a side node you have to quickly kill engi and necro and cap because you’re going to have an ele and thf collapse on you shortly. if you can threaten to take out engi and necro then toker has to stay and help. that’s the idea anyway.

And the amount of AOE pressure 5 guage puts out on his own. Let alone with NOS. Even a traited phantasm build will not survive that much aoe pressure. AOE spam is part of why mesmers were removed from the meta over a year ago NA (Just now are they starting to creep back in.)

Also another thing you are completely missing, a PU mesmer. I don’t care if he is power PU, condi, PU or anything else. That is the most useless build in a conquest mode. Sure mesmers are running torch right now but that is to help them set up their shatter bursts not for the effects of PU.

Lastly if a “power phantasm PU mesmer” were to try and help counter the abjured, he would be terrible as a phantasm mesmer, terrible as a power mesmer, and be a PU mesmer. The amount of traits he would have to take to make “Power phantasm PU” work, are just not available.

this post isn’t about PU mesmers. that was just an afterthought about a class that can add pressure to the already existing 2v2 while still surviving vs toker

Maybe they could survive vs toker, but the amount of AOE pressure 5guage and nos put out alone in said fight would nullify anything useful that mesmer is doing.

the mesmer wouldnt be taking pressure from anyone but toker. 2 other people are fighting nos and 5g up close.

Solstice.1097:

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

jportell.2197:

Solstice.1097:

maybe this is where a PU phantasm power mesmer could have a legit place in conquest. it beats thief and puts out huge damage while staying survivable.

Except it is immediately destroyed by Wakkey/Phanta AOE damage.

not 100% sure that’s the case but even so, his role would not be to fight elementalists in most cases.

It would be to fight magic toker, that he could never catch.

his real role is to put a lot of DPS on nos and fivegauge so that they will die too quickly 2v3 if toker leaves the point, so toker has to stay. if he leaves to +1 a side node you have to quickly kill engi and necro and cap because you’re going to have an ele and thf collapse on you shortly. if you can threaten to take out engi and necro then toker has to stay and help. that’s the idea anyway.

And the amount of AOE pressure 5 guage puts out on his own. Let alone with NOS. Even a traited phantasm build will not survive that much aoe pressure. AOE spam is part of why mesmers were removed from the meta over a year ago NA (Just now are they starting to creep back in.)

Also another thing you are completely missing, a PU mesmer. I don’t care if he is power PU, condi, PU or anything else. That is the most useless build in a conquest mode. Sure mesmers are running torch right now but that is to help them set up their shatter bursts not for the effects of PU.

Lastly if a “power phantasm PU mesmer” were to try and help counter the abjured, he would be terrible as a phantasm mesmer, terrible as a power mesmer, and be a PU mesmer. The amount of traits he would have to take to make “Power phantasm PU” work, are just not available.

this post isn’t about PU mesmers. that was just an afterthought about a class that can add pressure to the already existing 2v2 while still surviving vs toker

Maybe they could survive vs toker, but the amount of AOE pressure 5guage and nos put out alone in said fight would nullify anything useful that mesmer is doing.

the mesmer wouldnt be taking pressure from anyone but toker. 2 other people are fighting nos and 5g up close.

That may be. But 5guage and Nos put out so much AOE pressure they wouldnt need to focus the mesmer or his phantasms they would just get cleaved out. The abjured excel at fighting together and the larger the fight gets the better they become, the bigger the fight gets the more useless any kind of mesmer becomes, but more specifically a phantasm mesmer.

Good players that do ranged damage are lightly hindered by “people up close”.

SobeSoul.6910:

mistsim.2748:

glock.6590:

Nobody can 1v1 phanta when he is on far so they have to zerg him while losing other points.

nobody of equal skill can 1v1 a good d/d cele ele. has nothing to do with who the person is.

Wrong.

The thing that beats cele ele just doesn’t fit on teams.

This. Well… more or less.

I don’t think it’s “How to beat the Abjured?”. I think it’s “When to beat the Abjured?”.

And I think that comes when the celestial amulet nerf comes around. With Apex coming back, the Abjured will be tested and a good chance at being taken down.

Eurantien.4632:

Good players that do ranged damage are lightly hindered by “people up close”.

another alternative is having a thief comparable to toker to mirror him.

it keeps coming back to player skill though.

I know the Abjured as a team is good and they’re all good on a personal skill level, but they can’t be THAT much better individually than everyone else… right? I’m sure their comp plays a role in their success.

Boggs.6482:

I know the Abjured as a team is good and they’re all good on a personal skill level, but they can’t be THAT much better individually than everyone else… right? I’m sure their comp plays a role in their success.

Their comp is their success yes. Sure individual skill matters a great deal, however currently there is nothing, not a single thing in this meta, that counters a triple celestial team of some sort.

Solstice.1097:

Eurantien.4632:

Good players that do ranged damage are lightly hindered by “people up close”.

another alternative is having a thief comparable to toker to mirror him.

it keeps coming back to player skill though.

Yall keep talking about mirroring. that’s just dumb.
To beat toker, just get a medi guard.
Simple,
Divine intervention on his kitten , gs 2, 4, 3, than 5. He’ll probably try invis someplace, fart real quick with that condi cleanse damage skill, switch to scept and put a 2 on his kitten , you see him put a 3 on his kitten , gs 3 on him 2.

You save the condi cleanse and stunbreaker skill for his opening stun venom attack, you can use the 2nd guard skill too, it breaks stun. Medi guards crazy good at holding off enemies and dealing damage, yall dumb to not use them.

Let him bleed so he gets back in game slower.

Only thing is, his necro buddy likes to help. And that’s where you need a power ranger, kittening pew pew the kitten out of the necro, let the guard own toker. Guardian can handle both necro and thief on him AND down the thief. If he cant, that guardian is a newb. He just cant finish em when its 1v2, so ya gotta play as a TEAM.

That’s how they win, they play as a TEAM.

Yall play as gotta mirror, no team, just bs.

Medi guard and ranger only team would own that team.
If they got 2 eles 2 engies and thief.
That means you go 2 medi’s and 3 rangers.

None of that condi crap ranger, that’s junk build. You go power ranger, that’s a real build.

Yall so focused on gotta condi, the engies and thief, kitten pls, don’t need condi, burst them the kitten down and win the downed game.
Medi guards are good at winning downed games.

Yall need to learn to play too, if thief bothering u as a ranger, it should be even fight.
Only time its difficult for a power ranger is when he has to hold a node and its against something like a turret engineer.

Yes power ranger can hold node, but they shouldn’t be left alone to 1v1, yall need to keep it by creating teamfights. Medi and ranger is strictly a team fight comp, yes they can 1v1, buts its best if you play as a team and don’t try to force 1v1. Also, if they are trying to get set up, this comp also good at toying with them and breaking there rhythm. Nothing beats a medi guard teleporting thru the walls onto you and owning you. Gotta love them medi guards.

Stop being individualists and win team fights, stop trying to 1v1 them. If ya 1v1 them, make sure its on YOUR terms, not a 1v1 on your node as a power ranger while turret engy brings all his turrets right next to you and you have to fight him.

If they use turret engy, after you kill the turret engy… get your power ranger at the turret engy (enemy) spawn area and kitten him up while he runs to his node or spot and pressure him and BEFORE he can get set up to drop his turrets. FORCE him to drop turrets in a bad spot.

kittening newbs. ez win, yall just individualists. that’s why u lose. There classes are invidualist classes, I bet they enjoy forcing you to fight where they want you to fight because your dumb.

ya wanna beat them, you play as a team, and don’t try to pick em 1v1, because that’s where you lose. They probably make you 1v1 them because there teamfights aren’t as strong.

ESL site needs to work, cant find previous games, cant see current teams WITHOUT click on an upcoming tournament, so much cannot do. And if you can do all that stuff, than the navigation is kittening terrible because I cannot find it and I’m a computer techy type of person. Predicted ping bombs before everyone else did and what not. If I cant figure out ESL site, than your average joe will not figure it out. Poorly made site.
Makes me RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE just thinking about that site.

2 medi guard and 3 ranger should be the new meta according to you.

except that you wont be able to hold a point for 10 seconds.

You don’t REALLY need to be able to hold a point if you just kill people fast enough and this does fit into my idea that a perfectly played zerker comp would be the best theoretical comp. However, it is only that, theoretical. There aren’t players at the moment who can pull it off. To illustrate this we could ask what 3 power rangers would you put on that team?