(edited by Deimos Tel Arin.7391)
How to fix Hotjoin? Remove the Scoreboard!
the same should be applied for solo arena and team arena as well, but multiple the figures by 2 for solo arena and by 3 for team arena instead.
you forgot some important things.
start match when its 3v3 instead of 1v1,
remove team select
auto balance more often
remove it…, custom arenas will be buyable with gold soon
die Gedanken sind frei
you forgot some important things.
start match when its 3v3 instead of 1v1,
remove team selectauto balance more often
i see.
thanks for reminding me of that!
remove it…, custom arenas will be buyable with gold soon
terrible proposal.
gems has always been buy-able with gold anyway.
Sounds pretty good, I would also suggest removing the team select option. The only two options should be join the game or spectate the game. If people want to play on the same team as their friends or as the people they think are good, then they can go form a team with them and queue up to fight other teams.
Remove it…noone needs hj and for sure is not gonna teach new players how to go in tpvp.
/thread
Remove it…noone needs hj and for sure is not gonna teach new players how to go in tpvp.
/thread
Because everyone that plays hot-join is trying to learn how to become good at tpvp.
Remove it…noone needs hj and for sure is not gonna teach new players how to go in tpvp.
/thread
Because everyone that plays hot-join is trying to learn how to become good at tpvp.
At least it should be like this…or testing builds that actually is the only hj meaning atm…
How about once a match has started any player that has chosen to “spectate” can no longer join that match?. He has to leave the server and re-join in order to select a team.
Remove it…noone needs hj and for sure is not gonna teach new players how to go in tpvp.
/thread
Because everyone that plays hot-join is trying to learn how to become good at tpvp.
At least it should be like this…or testing builds that actually is the only hj meaning atm…
Why should it be like that? You want to talk about meaning in hot-join, explain to me the meaning of playing GW2 in general. I’ve always been curious how the mind of people like you work, where you seek meaning and purpose in everything you do no matter how trivial it is, for example, playing video games.
Soloque is the new Hotjoin..
Discuss.
There’s no need to fix hotjoin because it’s not broken.
If you want to play noncompetitive casual fast paced matches soloque is right for you.
Will the Real Pink Puma Please stand up?
Sounds pretty good, I would also suggest removing the team select option. The only two options should be join the game or spectate the game. If people want to play on the same team as their friends or as the people they think are good, then they can go form a team with them and queue up to fight other teams.
aye, thanks for the feedback!
what if, spectators can only join the losing team?
i will comment the other feedback later.
keep them coming!
Anet will not reward personal scores in PvP for good reason. They want players to work as a team. Otherwise, players will just work to maximize their personal scores and lead to discord among teams.
I like hotjoin as it is… I do my 3 daily games to get my daily achievements, and sometimes switch teams to get at least 2 wins out of 3 games (for working towards the 200wins on certain profession achievements). The small amount of money, rank and reward track progression seems limited enough; I’m not getting rich doing my daily pvp.
The changes that you suggest concerning team switching, will push players like me to just go soloQ. If I can’t switch teams to farm my wins (that don’t even contribute to a title I could show to others to feign “skill”), I might as well go for the better rewards in rated games and risk ruining people’s fun there because I might make them lose.
I completely understand how switching teams is frowned upon and I’m not proud that I do it, but anyone remotely competitive can make a team to go to TeamQ or if you don’t like people switching teams there is SoloQ. For what it’s worth, I’m usually the first to volunteer to an auto-balance to give others their chance to enter the winning team as well.
Tying rewards to personal reward points somehow might be interesting though, I do support that. In hotjoin I tend to try to boost my personal score, while in the rare instances (in the past) that I did soloQ I couldn’t do that, since standing on a lone point with 2 people is counter-productive.
So in hotjoin it might be nice to tie rewards to personal score, because people are doing their own thing anyways; while I don’t see it working in rated games where going for personal score might be counter productive for the team.
Anyways, now you also have the two cents feedback from a casual hotjoin scrub for what it’s worth^^
TL;DR Keep switching teams possible in hotjoin as it will further worsen the state of soloQ. Tying personal score to the rewards in hotjoin is a nice idea, but not in rated games.
Remove it…noone needs hj and for sure is not gonna teach new players how to go in tpvp.
/thread
actually, justin told me that they changed the hotjoin servers to 5 vs 5 because they want the players to learn how to play the game.
hotjoin in its current state does very little to teach new players how to play solo arena or even team arena properly, thus here i am, attempting to come up with methods to fix hotjoin, because hotjoin is very broken and not working as intended.
Remove it…noone needs hj and for sure is not gonna teach new players how to go in tpvp.
/thread
Because everyone that plays hot-join is trying to learn how to become good at tpvp.
well, for myself, i test out new builds in hotjoin to see if they are viable for team arena. but it would help a lot if the other players actually play the game though, not entering spectator mode to force auto-balance and then join the winning team.
hotjoin is still good casual fun for me, but the people who do not play but spectate and force auto-balance made hotjoin not so fun for me.
Remove it…noone needs hj and for sure is not gonna teach new players how to go in tpvp.
/thread
Because everyone that plays hot-join is trying to learn how to become good at tpvp.
At least it should be like this…or testing builds that actually is the only hj meaning atm…
yup! hotjoin is good to test new builds, non meta builds, but the overall experience would be more bearable if players are actually playing the game and not constantly entering spectator mode to force auto-balance.
if we “punish” them for doing this by resetting personal points to zero, tying personal points with rewards, they might actually consider trying their best to help the team win, especially if the personal score metrics are heavily tied to helping the team win.
How about once a match has started any player that has chosen to “spectate” can no longer join that match?. He has to leave the server and re-join in order to select a team.
well, i suggested that their personal scores be reset to zero, and they will earn much less rewards due to the amount of time spent in spectator mode.
lesser personal score and lesser amount of time spent player means lesser rewards for them. i think the main reason they do this is that they wish to grind for the rewards faster by joining teams with “better” players to be “carried” along.
Soloque is the new Hotjoin..
Discuss.There’s no need to fix hotjoin because it’s not broken.
If you want to play noncompetitive casual fast paced matches soloque is right for you.
errrr no, solo arena is not hotjoin.
and yes, hotjoin needs to be fixed because it is broken.
errr no, solo arena is definitely not “non competitive casual” because it is a ranked tournament match.
thanks for the feedback though it is not very constructive to me.
Anet will not reward personal scores in PvP for good reason. They want players to work as a team. Otherwise, players will just work to maximize their personal scores and lead to discord among teams.
well, their plan failed. players are not working as a team, players learned how to constantly enter spectator mode to force auto balance so they can get better rewards.
they do not work together to help the team win at all.
the current public scoreboard is a failure and should be completely removed.
I like hotjoin as it is… I do my 3 daily games to get my daily achievements, and sometimes switch teams to get at least 2 wins out of 3 games (for working towards the 200wins on certain profession achievements). The small amount of money, rank and reward track progression seems limited enough; I’m not getting rich doing my daily pvp.
The changes that you suggest concerning team switching, will push players like me to just go soloQ. If I can’t switch teams to farm my wins (that don’t even contribute to a title I could show to others to feign “skill”), I might as well go for the better rewards in rated games and risk ruining people’s fun there because I might make them lose.
I completely understand how switching teams is frowned upon and I’m not proud that I do it, but anyone remotely competitive can make a team to go to TeamQ or if you don’t like people switching teams there is SoloQ. For what it’s worth, I’m usually the first to volunteer to an auto-balance to give others their chance to enter the winning team as well.
Tying rewards to personal reward points somehow might be interesting though, I do support that. In hotjoin I tend to try to boost my personal score, while in the rare instances (in the past) that I did soloQ I couldn’t do that, since standing on a lone point with 2 people is counter-productive.
So in hotjoin it might be nice to tie rewards to personal score, because people are doing their own thing anyways; while I don’t see it working in rated games where going for personal score might be counter productive for the team.Anyways, now you also have the two cents feedback from a casual hotjoin scrub for what it’s worth^^
TL;DR Keep switching teams possible in hotjoin as it will further worsen the state of soloQ. Tying personal score to the rewards in hotjoin is a nice idea, but not in rated games.
hey, thanks for the honest feedback though i do not appreciate your playing habits in hotjoin but the honest feedback is greatly appreciated!
anyway, what do you think about the removal of the public scoreboard, and the new methods to earn personal score?
and about how the personal score, final team score, time played is relevant to the rewards etc.
do you think the 3 new methods to increase personal score might be able to carrot players to help their team win?
thanks again for your honest and comprehensive feedback!
Anet will not reward personal scores in PvP for good reason. They want players to work as a team. Otherwise, players will just work to maximize their personal scores and lead to discord among teams.
well, their plan failed. players are not working as a team, players learned how to constantly enter spectator mode to force auto balance so they can get better rewards.
they do not work together to help the team win at all.
the current public scoreboard is a failure and should be completely removed.
Then you don’t have a coherent message. I’m not even sure what your issue is anymore because I made a post about personal scores and you are discussing autobalance which has no impact on personal scores.
You’re also asking to reward people for their personal scores, and then asking to remove the public scoreboard. There is no connection to autobalance because no one switches teams to improve their personal score (because personal score is and should be meaningless). And before you get confused, I do think that the personal scoreboard should be removed in hotjoin because it currently adds no value.
And there’s this stuff about adding your suggestions (which I think are terrible) to solo and tpvp, both of which have no impact on hotjoin autobalance. In fact, this whole emphasis on personal score is terrible and would only make the PvP experience worse regardless what is done about autobalance.
I’m not entirely sure what your objective is, but I can clearly tell what it is not. It is not about hotjoin autobalance abuse and it is certainly not about encouraging teamplay, no matter how much you try to deceive us otherwise by crying about how you believe Anet has failed.
Anet will not reward personal scores in PvP for good reason. They want players to work as a team. Otherwise, players will just work to maximize their personal scores and lead to discord among teams.
well, their plan failed. players are not working as a team, players learned how to constantly enter spectator mode to force auto balance so they can get better rewards.
they do not work together to help the team win at all.
the current public scoreboard is a failure and should be completely removed.
Then you don’t have a coherent message. I’m not even sure what your issue is anymore because I made a post about personal scores and you are discussing autobalance which has no impact on personal scores.
You’re also asking to reward people for their personal scores, and then asking to remove the public scoreboard. There is no connection to autobalance because no one switches teams to improve their personal score (because personal score is and should be meaningless). And before you get confused, I do think that the personal scoreboard should be removed in hotjoin because it currently adds no value.
And there’s this stuff about adding your suggestions (which I think are terrible) to solo and tpvp, both of which have no impact on hotjoin autobalance. In fact, this whole emphasis on personal score is terrible and would only make the PvP experience worse regardless what is done about autobalance.
I’m not entirely sure what your objective is, but I can clearly tell what it is not. It is not about hotjoin autobalance abuse and it is certainly not about encouraging teamplay, no matter how much you try to deceive us otherwise by crying about how you believe Anet has failed.
DaShi,
before we continue this discussion, do you play in hotjoin games?
never mind, i will attempt to reply accordingly per paragraph.
Then you don’t have a coherent message. I’m not even sure what your issue is anymore because I made a post about personal scores and you are discussing autobalance which has no impact on personal scores.
do you know that, many people who play in hotjoin, enters spectator mode to force auto balance so they can join the “winning team” or join the team with the “highest top scorer” of the previous match?
You’re also asking to reward people for their personal scores, and then asking to remove the public scoreboard. There is no connection to autobalance because no one switches teams to improve their personal score (because personal score is and should be meaningless). And before you get confused, I do think that the personal scoreboard should be removed in hotjoin because it currently adds no value.
people switches team so they can ride along on the winning team, removing the public scoreboard means that they do not know which the “better” players have joined.
reward players based on their personal score, because, at the moment, players can just force their way into a winning team and just leech off the rewards.
yes, there is a connection to auto-balance because when players see one team has a lot of top scorers, they will enter spectator mode to force auto-balance.
yes, the public score board which shows everyone names and scores should be removed because it does not teach players how to play the game.
however, a personal score board should be in place, showing the player how much that player contributed to the team score.
And there’s this stuff about adding your suggestions (which I think are terrible) to solo and tpvp, both of which have no impact on hotjoin autobalance. In fact, this whole emphasis on personal score is terrible and would only make the PvP experience worse regardless what is done about autobalance.
please elaborate on why they are terrible. i would appreciate your comprehensive reply.
I’m not entirely sure what your objective is, but I can clearly tell what it is not. It is not about hotjoin autobalance abuse and it is certainly not about encouraging teamplay, no matter how much you try to deceive us otherwise by crying about how you believe Anet has failed.
my objective is mainly about the spectator mode and auto-balance abuse which has ruined hotjoin, and i believe that the rewards system is what caused this type of behavior to happen.
because, the current reward systems does not encourage individual players to do their best for the team, but instead exploit the system to force their way into the winning teams for the standard winning rewards.
and yes, anet failed terrible with the 5 vs 5 hotjoin, and with the rewards system.
no comments about suggesting to remove the public scoreboard?
and the new metrics for personal score?
Personal Score Additions
Objective Denier
1 point / 3 s for contesting neutral point if your team has 1 capture point.
2 points / 3 s for contesting neutral point if your team has 2 capture points.
Objective Bunker
1 point / 3 s for contesting own point if your team has 1 capture point.
2 points / 3 s for contesting own point if your team has 2 capture points.
3 points / 3 s for contesting own point if your team has 3 capture points.
Objective Guard
2 points / 3 s for sitting in own point if your team has 2 capture points.
3 points / 3 s for sitting in own point if your team has 3 capture points.
I fully support the op : the pvp as tpvp does need a deep rework, to make it more challenging, thus kick farmers, grinders, leechers, posers out. Those kind of people who have absolutely nothing to do in a true challenging pvp, which GW2 is not currently.
Btw you do know you can farm your dailies by doing pve, and it’s quicker : so why even come into pvp for that, except to have the obnoxious pleasure to kitten it for true pvp players ?
Having pve boys farming their rewards, titles, points in pvp is freaking boring, and I’m already quite annoyed to be forced to play with (or against) such people, who should be kicked as if they were bots, since they are actually more human bots than anything.
EDIT : having those changes implemented would do nothing but good, if farmers go in tpvp soloQ and argue (how hypocritical, you are so lame seriously) they’ll ruin it for tpvp players : I’d answer stop dreaming. Your personal stats will make you be matched with as bad players as you are, hence will not negatively influence any other players stats/scores but yours, since you’ll have no easy way/exploit to farm wins.
(edited by Brother Omnio.6452)
do you know that, many people who play in hotjoin, enters spectator mode to force auto balance so they can join the “winning team” or join the team with the “highest top scorer” of the previous match?
What does this have to do with personal scores?
people switches team so they can ride along on the winning team, removing the public scoreboard means that they do not know which the “better” players have joined.
reward players based on their personal score, because, at the moment, players can just force their way into a winning team and just leech off the rewards.
yes, there is a connection to auto-balance because when players see one team has a lot of top scorers, they will enter spectator mode to force auto-balance.
yes, the public score board which shows everyone names and scores should be removed because it does not teach players how to play the game.
however, a personal score board should be in place, showing the player how much that player contributed to the team score.
Rewarding personal scores will not improve the problems with autobalancing. You’ve said nothing that would even indicate that this would be the case. In fact, increasing personal score rewards will only make autobalance joining worse. People will still want to be on the winning team, because that team will have the best opportunity to maximize their personal scores. You’ve now given them another reason to force autobalance.
please elaborate on why they are terrible. i would appreciate your comprehensive reply.
See my previous reply. It is far more comprehensive than your “personal scores will magically make people not force autojoin anymore.”
my objective is mainly about the spectator mode and auto-balance abuse which has ruined hotjoin, and i believe that the rewards system is what caused this type of behavior to happen.
The rewards for winning in hotjoin are so small to be insignificant.
because, the current reward systems does not encourage individual players to do their best for the team, but instead exploit the system to force their way into the winning teams for the standard winning rewards.
and yes, anet failed terrible with the 5 vs 5 hotjoin, and with the rewards system.
:lol: Your inability to understand how games work does mean Anet failed. Rewarding personal scores will encourage more selfish play. People will play such that they maximize their personal scores and not help their team. They will still join winning teams, because those teams will allow them to increase their scores. Your entire suggestion will have no impact on autobalance abuse (or possibly make it worse). That you think your terrible solution should be applied to soloQ and tPvP, which both have no autobalance, only further demonstrates that autobalance is not what you are trying to improve.
The better solution to autobalace abuse has already been stated in this thread. Don’t allow spectators to join the match they are spectating in. It is simple and directly addresses autojoin abuse without adding more problems.
What does this have to do with personal scores?
i think some players may refer to the public scoreboard top scorers to determine if those players are worth following in the next match. removing the public scoreboard means those players who wish to ride along the “public scoreboard top scorers” will not be able to do so, and rely on luck instead.
Rewarding personal scores will not improve the problems with autobalancing.
why not? if we reward hotjoin players based on 3 items combine:
1. personal score
2. team score
3. time played
this means:
1. they will try their best
2. they will try to help the team win
3. they will not enter spectator mode
the 3 personal score additions that i suggested will make players try their best to help the team win.
You’ve said nothing that would even indicate that this would be the case.
refer to my reply above.
In fact, increasing personal score rewards will only make autobalance joining worse. People will still want to be on the winning team, because that team will have the best opportunity to maximize their personal scores. You’ve now given them another reason to force autobalance.
no, if they enter spectator mode, their personal score is reset, and their time played is reduced permanently, they will receive greatly reduced rewards. those who wish to maximize their rewards will not do so, because they risk their rewards reduced drastically.
at the moment, there is no “penalty” for entering spectator mode to force auto balance. many players do it all the time. these players are not learning how to play conquest at all. this is where anet failed when they tried to teach players to play 5 vs 5 conquest mode.
See my previous reply. It is far more comprehensive than your “personal scores will magically make people not force autojoin anymore.”
did you read what i proposed?
The rewards for winning in hotjoin are so small to be insignificant.
yes, the rewards are small, but the players still enter spectator mode to force auto balance. do you have a better idea to discourage this behavior?
Your inability to understand how games work does mean Anet failed.
refer to what i said above about anet trying to teach players with 5 v 5 hotjoin. they failed in that. the current 5 vs 5 hotjoin does not teach players how to play conquest.
Rewarding personal scores will encourage more selfish play.
the new rewards does not only depend on personal score but 2 other items as well.
there are 3 items.
1. personal score
2. team score
3. time played
if they focus on their personal score only but do not help out with the team score, their rewards is reduced as well. this will encourage team play.
People will play such that they maximize their personal scores and not help their team.
with the 3 new methods to increase personal score, they will help their team, because they need to hold 2 capture points.
They will still join winning teams, because those teams will allow them to increase their scores.
they will not enter spectator mode because their personal scores will be reset to zero, their time played will be reduced and they will receive much less rewards.
Your entire suggestion will have no impact on autobalance abuse (or possibly make it worse).
it is to encourage players actually playing conquest 5 v 5 to help their team win, and not enter spectator mode to abuse auto-balance.
That you think your terrible solution should be applied to soloQ and tPvP, which both have no autobalance, only further demonstrates that autobalance is not what you are trying to improve.
it is not terrible.
fine, then i will take back what i said about solo arena and team arena.
but hotjoin at the moment is broken, and needs some drastic measures to fix it.
The better solution to autobalace abuse has already been stated in this thread. Don’t allow spectators to join the match they are spectating in. It is simple and directly addresses autojoin abuse without adding more problems.
i suppose this would work.
it certainly discourages the behavior of entering spectator mode to force auto-balance.
but it still would not encourage players to play to help the team win though.
thank you for your comprehensive feedback!
Ugh, replying sentence by sentence is annoying. You’ve said nothing that further supports your terrible solution so your resorting to lame tactics. I now have no respect for you.
Simply put, rewarding personal scores will not end autobalance abuse and will not encourage team play. Abandon this idea because it will make hotjoin unbearable.
the current situation of hotjoin does not encourage team play at all, and it is already very unbearable.
removing the public scoreboard and making hotjoin players work for their reward will improve things.
also, you did not provide any examples on why my solution is terrible.
you did not even read what i wrote.
The score board isn’t the problem, the problem is the fact that teams aren’t random every time. Also, penalizing players for spectating just seems stupid and unneeded. There are many perfectly valid reason to spectate: like a new player trying to learn the ropes, or you’re trying to see how to play with/against a build, or even just personal enjoyment of watching matches. Why should we be punishing players for spectating?
People don’t even use the scoreboard to pick teams anyway, they check rank via spectator mode to dodge new players. The scoreboard was used back when it also showed your rank on it. Which is exactly why rank was removed from the score board.
Autobalancing the top player is going to push people away. If you’re actually competent and people rage quit, you’re going to be constantly put into a position to carry. Not just the team you started on, but the team you get switched to.
None of your solution actually addresses the problem: inexperienced players are routinely avoided by experienced ones. Simply because they actually want a team that knows how to function as one.
the current situation of hotjoin does not encourage team play at all, and it is already very unbearable.
Team play is encouraged, because players who realize the value of working together are quickly rewarded with more wins than those who try to solo everything. That’s the whole reason people try to stack. It’s difficult to communicate to players and the less inexperienced ones seem to learn the hard way that you can’t just roll into 3 people by yourself and just save the day. Knowing when and how to group up and team-fight is the most difficult aspect of pvp for players to grasp.
Hotjoin serves its purpose just fine; its quick action and a place to test builds and chil/see cool stuff. We got ranked if we need higher quality games.
I’m not entirely sure the scoreboard is at fault here. I haven’t even bothered to check the score sheet at the end of a match in a very long time.
The score board isn’t the problem, the problem is the fact that teams aren’t random every time. Also, penalizing players for spectating just seems stupid and unneeded. There are many perfectly valid reason to spectate: like a new player trying to learn the ropes, or you’re trying to see how to play with/against a build, or even just personal enjoyment of watching matches. Why should we be punishing players for spectating?
i see. fair enough.
People don’t even use the scoreboard to pick teams anyway, they check rank via spectator mode to dodge new players. The scoreboard was used back when it also showed your rank on it. Which is exactly why rank was removed from the score board.
eh, spectator mode reveals the rank of the players?
i am not aware of this! O_O
Autobalancing the top player is going to push people away. If you’re actually competent and people rage quit, you’re going to be constantly put into a position to carry. Not just the team you started on, but the team you get switched to.
hmmm okay. good point.
None of your solution actually addresses the problem: inexperienced players are routinely avoided by experienced ones. Simply because they actually want a team that knows how to function as one.
but it does not help one bit if all the experienced players stack on while team while less experienced get plowed on the other team.
then, what can be done to address this issue?
Team play is encouraged, because players who realize the value of working together are quickly rewarded with more wins than those who try to solo everything. That’s the whole reason people try to stack. It’s difficult to communicate to players and the less inexperienced ones seem to learn the hard way that you can’t just roll into 3 people by yourself and just save the day. Knowing when and how to group up and team-fight is the most difficult aspect of pvp for players to grasp.
well, players certainly learned how to use spectator mode to force auto-balance to solve this issue.
Hotjoin serves its purpose just fine; its quick action and a place to test builds and chil/see cool stuff. We got ranked if we need higher quality games.
but justin said they (anet) wanted the players to learn how to play conquest mode 5 vs 5 but that is not happening.
so it seems like, trying to fix the current state of hotjoin is a lost cause, and i should go with the flow?
however, when i force auto-balance, i join back the losing team, not the winning team though.
anyway, thanks for the kind feedback.
i accept that hotjoin is broken beyond repair and will not attempt to fix it anymore.