Guild Wars 2

Reduce the team size to 4. This is going to solve a trifecta of problems.

1: This is going to be a band-aid solution for the time being for population. You’re going to get more games, 25% more. It also works pretty good for this whole duoQ thing we have going on. If you have two duoQ per side, its likely easier to communicate than another soloQ in the mix. Less ppl = easier to communicate is generally the case.

2: Team fights tend to get pretty hectic and hard to see when its a 3v3. In a team of 4, a 3v3 means at least 1 point is completely unguarded, and people are likely going to only go 2v2. Which is something the community has been wanting in the first place. By reducing the team size to 4, encounters will be less of a clusterkitten and more of a 2v2 affair. People will be encouraged to hold 3 points and have a person roaming for +1s. If the game is less clusterkitteny, new players will also get the grasp of things much easier than some of the instant melt zerg situations you get at low skill levels.

3: It’ll be much easier to balance the burst meta around. If the general encounter became 2v2 there will be an easier time understanding how damage is dealt because there just isn’t so much thrown around in the first place. There’d also be smaller chances of class stacking because the player numbers are smaller.

So these items are kinda geared around helping conquest improve to be a more legible game format for newer to mid ranged players. There’s really not too much affect on professional players because they’d just reform a meta to suit it, with the only downside being they’d have to cut someone from the permanent team. Conquest is a problem at lower levels because theres just not enough tutorial material to go around, and the game engine doesn’t really cater for clarity of visuals. If we reduce some of that by reducing the amount of players, you get to slow the game down slightly and let people process things better.

Even at a professional level, whenever you get a 4v4 or something, commentators have no kittening idea what is going anyways. The outcome becomes a bursty coin flip that is crap to watch and crap to experience.

I like it. But of course it will push mobile classes especially on forest

I think things like that can be adjusted. I think the real issue is the 3v3 encounter. Its messy and just not exciting, and by giving it a bigger risk to run in a group of 3 promotes mobility and better encounters

I like your ideas sad that this post hasnt got the amount of attention it deserves. U got my thumps up.

The good thing on it is, it´s very easy to implement. But we all should be aware that the weight of one player will count more. This also means a bad one or disconnect.

Wolfric.9380:

The good thing on it is, it´s very easy to implement. But we all should be aware that the weight of one player will count more. This also means a bad one or disconnect.

Just 5% more.

I think this sounds like an interesting idea.

+1 to OP. Agree with comment it is a little like a band-aid fix when pvp is hemorrhaging…but, something needs to be done & fast.

might be a useful band aid. I don´t expect less salt but might mean better matches.

and here i am thinking 6 per team is the magical number of players for this game just like OW.

I agree with pretty much everything that was said/written. Not only it would help, it would also be a very interestsing change, could really use some change for once.

Also, if people didn’t like it, there could be an option to check like select: 5v5 or 4v4 Game Mode, although I think that would not be required nor wanted as it would split the possible Player Pool for each game mode a lot, resulting in worse and more unbalanced matches.

idk if in-game players even take the time or have the initiative to improve themselves (reading forums, match-up knowledge, etc) which helps considerably with match quality when your team kind of knows what to do.

So why not have in-game hints to help players make better decisions? We could have pop ups when conditions are met. Maybe start with simple things to help with positional rotations like:

• 2 or 3 on your team wipe when enemy has > 4 or 5, consider regrouping at spawn message
• warning message when 2 or more capping uncontested node
• warning message when 3 or more capping (fighting on) a contested node with 1 enemy
• etc, add more

Would certainly make for more interesting matches in my opinion. However, I don’t think it should affect every game, but have the matchmaker decide at random whether it will be a 5v5 game or a 4v4 game, and then make teams of the appropriate size. Its an easy way to add more diversity in the types of games without going through the trouble of adding new game types and trying to make maps that are balanced.

Meh….I think we’re better off with 5v5. OP, I suggest advocating for a new game type, like TDM, if you want 4v4 or 3v3. Here’s why. IMO, the simplicity and format of TDM can easily allow team-scaling. Conquest, on the other hand, contains a key factor: capture-points. Any team-scaling or reduction can easily throw conquest off-balance.

Example, two bunkers: 1 home, 1 mid. With two bunkers, you don’t even need far. Just have the other 2 rotate between home and mid as needed. With this, you can pretty much lock down the opposing team. This is why you need that fifth player to tip the scale.

Besides, you say 5v5 is hectic? Ha! Try 8v8. Yep, I played since those days. Even though it was fun, it was a MESS lol.

Looking back, I’d say 5v5 is the sweet spot for conquest.

JTGuevara.9018:

Meh….I think we’re better off with 5v5. OP, I suggest advocating for a new game type, like TDM, if you want 4v4 or 3v3. Here’s why. IMO, the simplicity and format of TDM can easily allow team-scaling. Conquest, on the other hand, contains a key factor: capture-points. Any team-scaling or reduction can easily throw conquest off-balance.

Example, two bunkers: 1 home, 1 mid. With two bunkers, you don’t even need far. Just have the other 2 rotate between home and mid as needed. With this, you can pretty much lock down the opposing team. This is why you need that fifth player to tip the scale.

Besides, you say 5v5 is hectic? Ha! Try 8v8. Yep, I played since those days. Even though it was fun, it was a MESS lol.

Looking back, I’d say 5v5 is the sweet spot for conquest.

Well, by that argument, you can still have 3 bunkers and do exactly the same thing in 5v5. The meta is phasing out bunkers anyways, so I don’t think thats a problem. I was around for the 8v8 days too.

The balance will be better simply because there are less things to balance. Its like how in GW1 balance became a nightmare because the pool of items that interacted with each other got too big.

<_< seriously. now more than ever. do something.

+1
I like this idea.

heh, forum’s giving me a thread necromancer warning. Well this topic deserves to be revived. Rise thread and eat some brains!

+1
#I like this idea.

this is interesting. I think changing the win score to 400 might be beneficial for this.

Thanks for the bumps guys that 400 points thing is something I haven’t thought about at all, gonna do some…..thinking.

6v6 please.

In 4v4 you’ll have MORE salt, MORE team pressure. So if you make one mistake it can be enough to tip the game over to the enemy’s side.

You’re 25% of a team. If you fail and make it 75%, the other team has 100% functionality while the other has 75%.

In a 6v6 environment there will be less team pressure. Bad players won’t cause the team to lose too badly. Instead of being 20% of a team you get to be 16.7% which is less pressure on yourself.

It makes 1-man carries less likely thus allowing for more team dynamics..

6v6 > 4v4

Although I agree, 5v5 has gotten stale. We need more modes.

Abelisk.4527:

6v6 please.

In 4v4 you’ll have MORE salt, MORE team pressure. So if you make one mistake it can be enough to tip the game over to the enemy’s side.

You’re 25% of a team. If you fail and make it 75%, the other team has 100% functionality while the other has 75%.

In a 6v6 environment there will be less team pressure. Bad players won’t cause the team to lose too badly. Instead of being 20% of a team you get to be 16.7% which is less pressure on yourself.

It makes 1-man carries less likely thus allowing for more team dynamics..

6v6 > 4v4

Although I agree, 5v5 has gotten stale. We need more modes.

Um…But with that kind of argument why not 1000 vs 1000. Competitive games should have team pressure, its what drives people to do better. Lets not forget you’re arguing for an emotional aspect of the game which cannot be attributed to just ‘team pressure’. Maybe in 6v6 you’ll have 3 groups of twos attacking every point. Then you’ll just be pressuring one duo to do well, which brings your argument back to square one.

I do hope that was sarcastic. We don’t need SPvP to get more care bears.

Have a better idea. Remove conquest-based pvp where everything depends on your team while your kittened-up leaderboard is solo-based.

for some inane reason most of the PvP community follows a really stupid logical path.

they advocate for a solo queue environment in a team game, then when they get it they complain about their teammates.

it’s beyond dumb. obviously having random teammates and no communication is going to result in a lot of bad and frustrating games. the selfish mentality of the average solo queue player does nothing to help this.

so we have a ranking system for a team game that you can’t play as a team. so unsurprisingly when other players perform, either actually badly, or are just perceived as playing badly people are going to get really salty. this is because a bad play from you teammate will actually ruin your ranking as well.

so, as you can see the community has just become a toxic salt mine, because you are not just fighting against the entire enemy team, often you have to contend with your teammates too.

my solution would be to restrict ranked conquest to 5v5 with a guild team leaderboard, and add a 2v2 best of 5 domination mode. i have a great concept for guild teams, but anet wouldn’t kitten on PvP if it was on fire so what’s the point?

the Devs blatantly don’t care, and the community is a toxic mess. balance is stale and problematic, matchmaking is trash. this game is well into a steep nose dive.

so, my suggestion to you, dear reader- is to look for another game. i recommend For Honor because it tickles my fancy, but hey there are a lot of games out there with Devs who actually care about the games they work on. so go forth, find another game, have some fun.

give up and let GW2 PvP die. it was fun while it lasted, but that time is long gone.

oh, but there is another way. if some dark horse were able to revive pre-specialisation’s PvP on a private server you can bet it would get played.

interestingly enough, there are a number of strategy games that Devs have abandoned that are now community balanced (FA Forever, DoWII Elite, etc) and still have a following, not to mention far better balance.

I think Choovanski has the right idea here.

No 5v5 is good for teams. But for pugs it need a 10 v 10 where the difference of lvl between players will be attenuated by the number.

choov if the devs didn’t care they would be completely absent. they are the opposite, actually putting into play things the community ask for. that’s ok for some things but not important ones.

Stand The Wall.6987:

choov if the devs didn’t care they would be completely absent. they are the opposite, actually putting into play things the community ask for. that’s ok for some things but not important ones.

i honestly don’t know how you can still have faith, was it the sigil thread? because if those are the people who care, there about as useful as a friendly dog when your car breaks down.

leagues, HoT, the communities idiotic obsession with solo queue, and Dev neglect have killed PvP. it’s in the back alley choking breath between bouts of bile. it’s over.

here baby, look at this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/1V1-PVP

four years ago we were asking for 1v1, and here we are. here we are.

look, anet have lost most, if not all of the devs who cared about PvP. they have killed competitive play. they neglect balance. they don’t talk to the community, even tho the game is DYING. yo, it’s not hard to see that they don’t give a care.

watch this, https://youtu.be/NrbQS9kW29k

both Helseth and Jebro come in, around half time or so- and they lay out the sorry state we are in. it’s time to give up. it’s over. it really is.

I’d like 5 match 2v2 just as much as the next guy. I’m trying to make suggestions that don’t require major overhauls though.

4v4 wouldn’t work on current maps. It would be too empty. 6v6 would mean one person has less impact on game outcome meaning stuck even more if you solo que.

2v2 and 3v3 on the other hand would work out on arena-style maps. It’s kinda weird that the game with combat of such great caliber doesn’t have arena-styled mode.

Right now what we have is basically mini-battleground where you’re kinda stuck if you solo-que, and then there is oversized battleground where your presence doesn’t matter and basically has no rules (WvW). And it’s weird. Why wasn’t arena-styled mode implemented for competitive play? It’s a waste of game potential and great combat system that the game has.

I’ve thought about this as well, wasn’t gonna post until end of season hoping it’d get more attention.

Basically, the thought process is that you reduce the importance of numbers (+1ing) and make individual decisions more significant. Fact of the matter is, as it stands, games snowball if the team can outsustain or outdps the enemy. Stealing an empty node, for instance, becomes irrelevant because you’ll be 3v1ed in no time flat with current numbers. If you’re any good you can survive a 2v1 long enough for help to arrive and because there are less players on the map, where to go, etc., becomes a more significant decision. Small skirmishes and even 1v1s actually matter in that scenario.

As it is, being 20% of a team and 10% of match is too ludicrous a measure to even contemplate being rated on.

4v4 and make the game less bursty, which having less players also accomplishes, as that will certainly draw in more people.

Would rather they make it how it used to be where it was like 8v8 battles, maybe more.

Just make it anti zerg friendly.

iKeostuKen.2738:

Would rather they make it how it used to be where it was like 8v8 battles, maybe more.

Just make it anti zerg friendly.

Thats…kinda contradictory no? 8v8 was a mess, theres like 2-3 fights on every point, can’t see anything meaningful.

8v8, add Monk, add secondary profession, add Paragon, add Dervish, add Ritualist, you all getting me??

Ramoth.9064:

Abelisk.4527:

6v6 please.

In 4v4 you’ll have MORE salt, MORE team pressure. So if you make one mistake it can be enough to tip the game over to the enemy’s side.

You’re 25% of a team. If you fail and make it 75%, the other team has 100% functionality while the other has 75%.

In a 6v6 environment there will be less team pressure. Bad players won’t cause the team to lose too badly. Instead of being 20% of a team you get to be 16.7% which is less pressure on yourself.

It makes 1-man carries less likely thus allowing for more team dynamics..

6v6 > 4v4

Although I agree, 5v5 has gotten stale. We need more modes.

Um…But with that kind of argument why not 1000 vs 1000. Competitive games should have team pressure, its what drives people to do better. Lets not forget you’re arguing for an emotional aspect of the game which cannot be attributed to just ‘team pressure’. Maybe in 6v6 you’ll have 3 groups of twos attacking every point. Then you’ll just be pressuring one duo to do well, which brings your argument back to square one.

I do hope that was sarcastic. We don’t need SPvP to get more care bears.

Um… you really want Thieves to become overpowered? They’ll decap left and right.

People will need more chores to do. Yeah sure aesthetic-wise there will be less clutter and fights will look cleaner, but in a 6v6 Thieves won’t be so game-changing any more.

Abelisk.4527:

Ramoth.9064:

Abelisk.4527:

6v6 please.

In 4v4 you’ll have MORE salt, MORE team pressure. So if you make one mistake it can be enough to tip the game over to the enemy’s side.

You’re 25% of a team. If you fail and make it 75%, the other team has 100% functionality while the other has 75%.

In a 6v6 environment there will be less team pressure. Bad players won’t cause the team to lose too badly. Instead of being 20% of a team you get to be 16.7% which is less pressure on yourself.

It makes 1-man carries less likely thus allowing for more team dynamics..

6v6 > 4v4

Although I agree, 5v5 has gotten stale. We need more modes.

Um…But with that kind of argument why not 1000 vs 1000. Competitive games should have team pressure, its what drives people to do better. Lets not forget you’re arguing for an emotional aspect of the game which cannot be attributed to just ‘team pressure’. Maybe in 6v6 you’ll have 3 groups of twos attacking every point. Then you’ll just be pressuring one duo to do well, which brings your argument back to square one.

I do hope that was sarcastic. We don’t need SPvP to get more care bears.

Um… you really want Thieves to become overpowered? They’ll decap left and right.

People will need more chores to do. Yeah sure aesthetic-wise there will be less clutter and fights will look cleaner, but in a 6v6 Thieves won’t be so game-changing any more.

Whether thieves are successful in decaping or not is a matter of your own teams strategies. If you leave it undefended, sure, why wouldn’t it get decapped.

Even with 5 members it’s hard to manage thieves. With 4 it would be like playing hot potato between points.

Abelisk.4527:

Even with 5 members it’s hard to manage thieves. With 4 it would be like playing hot potato between points.

…no, unless you are taking about bronze or something, free decaps are not a thing with evenly matched decent players.

I’d be game if they tried this. It makes a ton of sense considering the HoT power creep. Seems unlikely though, just because it’s such a huge change to team fighting.

a 10v10 and 15v15 straight up courtyard style arena would be pretty sweet too….

Another thing, OP. I have another idea for a 4v4 environment: Courtyard TDM

Here’s a way to bring in another game mode without developing one from scratch. We had it already, just bring it back. Bring back Courtyard and cut THAT down to 4v4 and 3v3. I think it has promise! It’s simply more fun to play!

Hmm the devs stated at the very beginning TDM didn’t really work because people will just make trolling heal builds, and that another aspect was needed to let mobility shine. I’m inclined to agree but i don’t think conquest was the answer, it has too many variables for randoms to play well together.

I’m off the belief that while game balance should be done at the highest level, it also needs to weed out pub crush skills like traps and signet of humility. However, the game design needs to be balanced around the most major audience, and that’s always going to be random team mates