Guild Wars 2

i support this thread ^^

i would rather have old metas where people still had some kind of risk vs reward gameplays instead of spam as much as aoe as you can and let computer play for you

tl;dr version please?

Morwath.9817:

tl;dr version please?

pre-hot not balanced meta was still more balanced than post-hot ;>

and since f2p players can play rankeds but have no access to elite spec it’s even worse..

Yep, the worst bunker meta we’ve had so far, and that’s necessitated by the ridiculous amounts of stupid-easy damage that has made it’s way into the game.

Yes, this meta is the worst, and so was the last one, and the one before that, and the one before that, and probably the meta after this.

I know its all opinion based, but every meta has its ups and downs, so there really can be no “worst meta” because everyone has a different idea of what the worst is. Personally, I don’t think this is a great meta, but I like it a lot better than the
DD ele>>>>>>>>everything meta. Even then I’m sure the DD ele’s loved that meta.

That sums it up pretty well, good post! The game isn’t in a great spot right now..

Instead of buffing war and thief they need to nerf everything to their level. Slow the game down from the random skill spam it has become.

PvP definitely requires less skill now, because of the overall increase in damage. Spam invulns, evades, blocks and fire off a few skills and hope they hit or just stand still on cap spamming oversized aoe damage or condi fields while watching TV.

I agree. I would take cele meta back without a hesistation. Bunker mesmer is pure cancer.

Quaman.9167:

Yes, this meta is the worst, and so was the last one, and the one before that, and the one before that, and probably the meta after this.

I know its all opinion based, but every meta has its ups and downs, so there really can be no “worst meta” because everyone has a different idea of what the worst is. Personally, I don’t think this is a great meta, but I like it a lot better than the
DD ele>>>>>>>>everything meta. Even then I’m sure the DD ele’s loved that meta.

i main thief and i would rather have old dd ele meta

Laraley.7695:

I agree. I would take cele meta back without a hesistation. Bunker mesmer is pure [].

i would edit that word, i once got an infraction because of it :P

Jekkt.6045:

Laraley.7695:

I agree. I would take cele meta back without a hesistation. Bunker mesmer is pure [].

i would edit that word, i once got an infraction because of it :P

Ye, that’s not surprising. You get infracted for pretty much everything. At this point, I really don’t care.

I’d prefer they gave Thief and Warrior a real June 23rd (remember what changed? I sure don’t. things MOVED but overall the classes were EXACTLY the same. meanwhile necro, mes, ele got MASSIVE buffs.) and likewise nerfed all elite specs outside of Chrono ,BErserker, and Daredevil. With exceptions of course, but do not nerf Bound (otherwise it will see 0 use) and do not nerf Lotus (again, 0 use). Gunflame should stay the same. Maybe drop the daze, but same. Chrono is block hell, but easy to fight.

I’d love to discuss with you guys, see where we agree.

REMOVE TEH ELITE FROM SPVP

I support this post thank you OP !

ANET YOU BROKEN THE GAME CAN YOU kittenING WAKE UP?
or you are just too blind because of the money grab with HoT?

all of my friend wanted to play the game… I told them that the game is not balance so they wont pay to play this kitten and ill keep advertising that you faill Anet till you kittening wake up.

110% worst meta, bunker beta is a bad meta when everyone is running tanky as kitten there’s no gameplay. There are far too many distortions blocks, invnl, reset buttons in this meta its just not fun, and skill is not rewarded well.

Tercian.5709:

REMOVE TEH ELITE FROM SPVP

I support this post thank you OP !

ANET YOU BROKEN THE GAME CAN YOU kittenING WAKE UP?
or you are just too blind because of the money grab with HoT?

all of my friend wanted to play the game… I told them that the game is not balance so they wont pay to play this kitten and ill keep advertising that you faill Anet till you kittening wake up.

It is such an obvious cash grab all the current builds that perform well contain the elite spec

+11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

Everybody is running tanky cause damage is all over the place, and they have known this for a while now.

Seems like op doesn’t like bunkers. To be honest I find it more well balanced with bunker and damage classes now than prior metas where near full damage builds were almost necessary and most bunkers were sub par.Now you have to have some strategy especially in team fights other than spamming the enemy with more damage. You have to prioritize targets and keep your teammates in the fight.

Nothing will change until they nerf celestial amulet. Otherwise there will never be any sort of diversity. When you have 20 amulets (or whatever) and half the people pick a single one of them. Then its a pretty terrible situation. Then class balance can come after this is fixed.

+1, HoT power creep is just plain ridiculous. The [lack of] balance and this annoying league system have really been sucking away my enjoyment of PvP.

I feel you, OP. I fell in love a long time ago with the game’s combat system. It felt rewarding to dodge that burst and follow up with one of your own after baiting your opponent. It felt rewarding to coordinate a CC lockdown with another team mate or two to bring down a known threat. It felt rewarding to properly out rotate the enemy and quickly gank the 2 or more enemies that were about to drop your ally and save the day. It felt so rewarding to actually play the game as the originally intended.

Now? What do we have now? Everyone can do everything on a single class. I have a dragon hunter build that isn’t trap heavy (meaning slightly less burst), but better sustain (not exactly medi-trapper), with 10.5s of immobilize, 1 pull, 2 knockbacks, 3 knockdowns, over 10s of block, around 3 blinds all tied with a tidy 19k HP package while being able to do all of this from more or less 1200 range. Its fun having so many tools, but when you can press one button after another to keep a guy locked down completely while you crap out 6k+ crits every 4s from 1200 and walk out of a 1v1 having taken almost no damage….? That’s hardly fun. Its entertaining coming up with a sweet build that trumps almost everything else, but where’s the rush? Used to be people had only a smidge of CC and even less stun breaks. If a dude manages to avoid your few seconds of lockdown, you’d most likely be dead because you had to sacrifice quite a bit for that CC. Now? Too much of everything.

I want to go on, but ANET’s devs need to realize that there is genius in simplicity.

I actually think the balance is pretty good except for theives/warriors/non-elites pecs.

If the other 6 elite specs were what the game was it would be pretty blaanced imo, with revs slightly stronger than the rest. It’s still early though

buff warrior thief and non-elites. Go from there.

Cam Ron.4170:

I actually think the balance is pretty good except for theives/warriors/non-elites pecs.

If the other 6 elite specs were what the game was it would be pretty blaanced imo, with revs slightly stronger than the rest. It’s still early though

buff warrior thief and non-elites. Go from there.

You probably play Revenant.

Laraley.7695:

I agree. I would take cele meta back without a hesistation. Bunker mesmer is pure cancer.

That’s a weird way to write condi revenant.

Theres always a post like this of crying with each new “meta”. Get better .

I’m generally the first one to doubt the average skill level of a forum monkey, however the new meta has some pretty cancerous builds.

DH (bargain hunter) traps are just silly, the amount of damage they do even to targets with lots of armor is crazy. Yes you can pretty easily take down DH 1v1 if you play right. But this is team based pvp and 1v1s are not the norm, its shocking how fast a player who gets caught out by a DH can get dropped.

Tempest and Druid healing is insane, I have faced all healing teams on Stronghold that just man mode through both doors by healing door breakers so much that my entire five man team couldn’t kill one of the little buggers, much less any of the players.

Chronos ability to mitigate damage through stealth, blocks and distortion is pretty out of control. While chrono is no place near the level of dumb the previous classes are, its by no means balanced.

Reaper and Rev are on the strong side in 1v1s, however in group fights they seem fine. I do think both need some minor (VERY MINOR) nerfs, but its gotta be small, do to much and they will be worthless. And rev needs some major changes to Jalis and ipad.

Berserker and Dare Devil are both in a place that all the other elite specs should be, good but not omgwtfbbqamazballs. They are easily strong enough to make several new builds, but not so strong that you will never ever go without the elite again. That’s a good thing, it means players who didn’t buy hot don’t just get left in the dust.

TLDR: Yes you can absolutely beat the new specs if you learn how to fight them. However that does not mean they cant still be over powered.

Conquest is unplayable IMO. SH is somewhat better.

I’ve given up for awhile though, playing solo ranked is a very bad idea right now.

From what I’ve seen….

Bunker sustain is out of control and really shouldn’t be available at the same time. If you want to heal you should be squishy. If you want to bunker you shouldn’t have great sustain. Meanwhile we have tempests and chrono’s that can basically 1v2 with ease and hold 1v3 for significant lengths of time.

The sad part though is if you aren’t using a tanky build you have DH’s, like myself, that kill you in less than 5 seconds without issue. It’s ridiculous. Even WoW does a better job balancing and apparently we aren’t going to get any changes until after the season? the kitten?

no, we aren’t gettig any balance patches until two weeks before season 2.

Drekor.5217:

arenanet, make me happy and bring “normal” supports like bunker guards and “normal” dps like spellcaster nukers back into the game. nerf the broken stuff. while it’s disappointing that not all the classes have a place in the meta, i can understand that it’s sometimes hard to make everything viable.

/rant

“make me happy” you reliese theres Plenty who also want other things right, Elementalists have NEVER been a DPS in pvp, they’ve always been this sustain styled proffession, have you not read the Elementalist forums??, I mean at one point Fresh air was good, but for the past few metas atleast, the Elementalist has been rpetty bunkerish in Any build coming to light realistically.

I mean i dont know if u reliesed from the elites and everything, but they want Elementalist to be nailed as this Support / bunker proffession Not a DPS, so obviously in arena nets eyes the “normal Support” is the Elementalist, which kit wise makes Perfect sense..

its a Jack of all Trades, and Iconically in MMOs the Jack of all Trades IS YOUR SUPPORT, just normally its called “bard” and Does what the Elementalist do with Songs rather then Spells, but on lines, provides the same role i mean i dont get where u pull normal from realistically.

GUARDian, Guard – Someone who Protects wears Plate and Fights on front lines – in any other game TANK, which is in SPVP Terms BUNKER, so it being a bunker proffession Actually is what is called “normal” if it was a “paladin” i could agree with you, but it isnt.

im sorry, but Elementalist as a Core Proffession AND elite proffession are Supports / bunkers, if u nerfed that Elementalist would be COMPLETELY nullified from the Entire game, u may aswell Delete the proffession as a whole, because it has No other Route where SPVP is concerned,

Keep Elementalist where it is, its Nice to walk into a game where “wizards” arnt just typical spell casters, i think they’re rly well made tbh and dont really need to be brought to “nukers”… idea of GW2 is to be Different, not the same.

I personally feel like AoE damage and effects are too strong for how easy AoE’s are to land on people.

Drayos.8759:

Drekor.5217:

arenanet, make me happy and bring “normal” supports like bunker guards and “normal” dps like spellcaster nukers back into the game. nerf the broken stuff. while it’s disappointing that not all the classes have a place in the meta, i can understand that it’s sometimes hard to make everything viable.

/rant

“make me happy” you reliese theres Plenty who also want other things right, Elementalists have NEVER been a DPS in pvp, they’ve always been this sustain styled proffession, have you not read the Elementalist forums??, I mean at one point Fresh air was good, but for the past few metas atleast, the Elementalist has been rpetty bunkerish in Any build coming to light realistically.

are you aware that mesmers and necros are as much spellcasters as elementalists are?

and if a mesmer can become a very good support class so can an ele become a very good nuker if anet decides to do so.

You forgot the worst part about the new meta.
The devs freely distributed daze like it was cotton candy.
Pretty much every single meta build right now got an obscene amount of AoE daze or area denial effects that knock you down, if you happen to evade into them.
It’s come to the point, where you don’t get to use your heal skill for more than 5 seconds, because the opponents just keep dishing out their cc effects without even focusing you in particular.
A lot of the obnoxious builds of the past at least weren’t all that strong in big team fights. Most of them were feared for their ability to crush anyone who tries to beat them in a 1v1.
Dragonhunters, Druids and Chronomancers can shut down an entire fight with an oversaturation of control effects that just happen as a byproduct of them doing their thing. At least a hambow had to hold up stability, make sure, he didn’t get interrupted or blinded, before he could lay down the pain with his earthshaker… And stunning the opposing team was an entirely deliberate act.

I was already kittened at the celestial meta because it basically revolved around running in circles while spamming omnidirectional skills that didn’t require any aim.
Boy, and I thought that was as obnoxious as it can get. We now have builds with omnidirectional daze effects tacked to their weapon swap.
Just how much more messed up can it get?

Cam Ron.4170:

I actually think the balance is pretty good except for theives/warriors/non-elites pecs.

If the other 6 elite specs were what the game was it would be pretty blaanced imo, with revs slightly stronger than the rest. It’s still early though

buff warrior thief and non-elites. Go from there.

It’s not supposed to be “these 9 new classes are the new meta.”
The elite specializations need to offer exactly as much as any other specialization line from a power perspective. The goal should be to diversify the field, not to just make anything that came before obsolete.
Sadly, there is a lot of mandatory elite lines. For example, there is not a single thief build that a daredevil can’t do better. You will be hard pressed to find a Mesmer build that’s better than anything, a Chronomancer could offer.
The same with Druid. Why would anyone pick nature magic as a defensive trait line, when they could just as well pick the druid line, if they want a defensive line anyway.
At the very least bunker guards don’t really benefit from the dragonhunter specialization… But they have a rough time against condi reapers.

And then there are guardians standing in the corner that got their elite nerfed because we had too frequent quickness -_-
There are lots of hybrid builds that are too good at everything.
We need good ol’ – I hit hard but I can’t sustain myself and do crowd control well/ I sustain myself but I can’t crowd control and deal considerable ammount of damage/ I have lots of disrupting abilities and crowd control but I can’t sustain myself well and deal damage.

back then the elite was very strong and it would still be without HoT. now it’s not even worth taking it :^)

Agreed. The original post summarizes the specializations well.

This is the worst meta so far. Way too much burst, crazy condition stacks, while some specs have crazy amount of evades, blocks, invulnerability and/or crazy healing. Basically it is also pay-to-win, since all the top teams rely on revenant or the elite specifications, meaning that without HoT expansion you cannot have a highly competitive team build. Arenanet’s original statement was the elite speciazations would bring something different to the table, but not be more powerful than the original specilizations, but this simply isn’t true, except for warrior’s berserker (which doesn’t see much play outside gunflame/rifle one trick pony).

The trait change in June 2015 already was already a huge buff to some professions, like mesmer. I hope Arenanet will now tone down this power creep. It would also nice if they would slightly buff warrior sustain to make it viable support profession again, besides being hit-and-run bruiser.

It pretty much comes down to who has more DH/Reaper in their team. Seriously. I lost every game in which we had less of those two and won every game in which we had more of those than the enemy.

I kinda want the old turret engi meta back. At least those could be beaten by just ignoring the points they bunker on.

It’s so sickening. There are fights in which I’m unable to cast a single spell as soon as my earth armor stability runs out… It’s ridiculous if you think about the situation. This kitten was balanced enough for arenanet to actually start a ranked season.

Wait……………………………………………………………..

So………………………………………………………………….

you actually have to focus someone down?!?!

out play….

coordinate & time skills…..

count dodges……

react fast…….

out rotate to counter builds…..

OMG WHAT SORCERY IS THIS!!!!!!!

rotations and focusing people down took a lot more skill in the hambow ele engi meta than it does now..

I support this post.

There is no more balancing builds. When you used to play marauder you had big risk. Therefore you took soldiers. Nowadays that’s eliminated. Going dragonhunter marauder? Pfff problem, you got heave CC, burst, blocks and stability anyway!
Wanna go marauder engi? Np, you got huge defense and offense at the same time with great health regen!

seriously…Where is this balance patch!

OneKlicKill.4285:

110% worst meta, bunker beta is a bad meta when everyone is running tanky as kitten there’s no gameplay. There are far too many distortions blocks, invnl, reset buttons in this meta its just not fun, and skill is not rewarded well.

Well you have to.

If you play something that isnt uber bunkery with all those blocks, evades, invuls, distorts, whatever, you get one-shot by an ability on just a 2sec cd.

My complaints about the meta are mainly directed at the huge mass of AoE CC Spam injected into this game through mainly dragonhunter, chronomancer, reaper, druid, scrapper.

It feels like whoever reguritates all their AoE CC cooldowns onto the point first wins the teamfight because you WILL be dazed for days.

So overall I’d like to see a reduction in daze/stun duration across the board on ALL builds.

Other notes:

Scrapper- Increase CD of sneak gryo to kitten seconds

Druid- Reduce Duration of Ancient Seeds Immob but increase bleed stacks, LB druids are too good at decapping since no one runs teleports or condi cleanse anymore.

Reaper- Return Deathly Chill to the old scaling values with the executioner mechanic. I have no idea why anet buffed this when it was already strong in damage and more thematically complex.

Chronomancer- Well of Precognition- Make it so it prevents capture point participation. It will still have clutch aamazing utility, but you won’t be able to spam it off cooldown and give everyone on the point your metastatized brain tumors.

Dragonhunter-Trap daze duration reduction or just change daze to confusion so we get moar condi guard love.

Tempest- Remove Diamond Skin from the game, replace it with a triat that grants a modest amount of resistance. Also remove stability from earth overload but make 1 stack a minor trait for all overloads. Possibly decrease protection duration from elemental shielding to 2 seconds.

Revenant- Too many things to nerf, too little time. Give pain absorption a 5 second cooldown but make it a stunbreak, so mallyx can handle CC better and so it can’t spam perma resistance as much. Reduce resistance duration granted from demonic defiance. Increase energy cost of shiro stunbreak. Remove stability on dodge, but make it so you get 5 seconds of stability from using a jalis skill or some kitten like that.

Finally: Remove Durability Runes. A lot of the problems in this meta involve aritificial sustain from durability runes. When people run durability on daredevil, reaper, scrapper, tempest, herald, and druid with some degree of regularity in high level tournaments and/or metabattle, you know that this rune is overcentralizing the meta.

Two comments.

About the damage in PvP
This over the top damage of all shorts and kinds overshadows the game/class mechanics.MMORPGS are not FPS or even MOBAs.The current damage output,works against the combat mechanics in GW2.

About the new specs
I don’t believe that the devs that built these specs didn’t see that they are
op,and even if they didn’t see it before launch,they can surely see it now.
So they must be op and still in the game by design.
Maybe a marketing trick to make less skilled/new players get more involved with PvP.

The current meta is just super stupid and broing and there is nothing to discuss about that.
You are facing condition revenents, bunker mesmers,scrappers and diamond skill eles 24/7.
I mean just look at this.

-Condition revenent is the same cheese like condition mesmer was back in the days with the difference that it is viable in teamq.
-Bunker mesmers are just insane – the whole node gets clusterkittened and 3 people cleaving are not enough to prevent a rezz.
-Scrappers are dealing as much dmg as zerk classes back in the days while having better survivability than a cleric shoutbow.
-Diamond skin eles have the most kittened passive trait that is existing ingame.

The whole balance and meta is just a pure joke.
Every comp that doesn’t use tripple bunker (1 mes) + condi rev is in a disadvantage.

I’m OK with it. Even if the gameplay isn’t the best pretty much all classes have a place.

Would like to see 90% of aoe spam removed tho.

Sube Dai.8496:

I’m OK with it. Even if the gameplay isn’t the best pretty much all classes have a place.

Would like to see 90% of aoe spam removed tho.

So warrior is not a class and players without HoT are lesser beings not worth of notice.

+1 worst meta EVER.
- Too random AoE’s on point
- No balance whatsoever (DH, Rev, Bunker Mesmer etc)
- Matchmaking is a joke
- LEL

People said the last meta was bad too. And the one before that.