Guild Wars 2

If Im not mistaken in the SOTG it was said that the elo rating would not be visible for players.

The devs said that they wanted the players to focus on playing and forget about ratings and “numbers” that distracted them from enjoying the game. However I think that the rating is a nice motivation to play and improve.

What are the community thoughts on this?
Do you like invisible ratings?

I for one would like my elo.
The only concern i have, is it might discourage people from playing with friends who arent very good and risk lowering there rating.

It isn’t even like an invisible elo rating. It’s more like some kind of internal number or indicator that is a basis for a calculation of team indicator that is then used to match your current team against another one in a paid tourny.

So don’t expect that they have an invisible number tied to every account and winning a match adds to this number while losing subtracts some points. It probably shouldn’t even be called ‘rating’ considering what people think when they hear that.

i hope its invisible due to testing, not as final state… because ladder and rewards should be focused on rating too and if it wont be visible, it wouldnt be possible

I can assure you it in fact is the final state unless they get some reason and fix their PvP.

leman.7682:

It isn’t even like an invisible elo rating. It’s more like some kind of internal number or indicator that is a basis for a calculation of team indicator that is then used to match your current team against another one in a paid tourny.

So don’t expect that they have an invisible number tied to every account and winning a match adds to this number while losing subtracts some points. It probably shouldn’t even be called ‘rating’ considering what people think when they hear that.

What makes you speculate thus? =)

I read between the lines and have been following their decisions and comments forever now.

The fact that it is shrouded in secrecy and they don’t just flat out tell us the formula is reason enough to be skeptical.

I suspect there are probably some flaws in the system which they know the community would not find acceptable.

My concern with it is, what if I am trying to put together a team of similarly skilled players so that we can get even match ups. I have no way of knowing the elo of the players I’m recruiting. I could be getting absolute scrubs and getting terrible matchups, or the player I’m adding could have a much higher elo and cause me to face a team I’m not ready for.

This actually hurts sponsored teams a lot. We have Curse backing us up, but it was extremely tricky for us to actually ‘’prove our worth’’ to them in order to attain our sponsorship. We had to provide stream vods and screenshots of us beating the top teams, who we in turn had to provide screenshots and vods of them beating other teams and a huge mess based around that just to attain our sponsorship.

If we could prove ourselves further to Curse by being dominant in the ladder they’d be able to invest in us more as a team but with the game being as it is we can’t really show them how we are doing.

JonathanSharp.7094:

I think you may have misunderstood.

We are not planning on showing your RATING, but you will know exactly where you rank in relation to other players – you will know your rank, but you will not know the actual #. Other games have done something similar.

You will know your “worth” or how “skilled” you are, you just won’t need a # to show it, you will have a placement in relation to other players.

Sorry I didn’t explain it better in the SOTG.

As in, like a tier? Like you’ll know you are in the diamond bracket or whatever? Or it’ll say “you’re the 4th ranked thief NA”?

JonathanSharp.7094:

I think you may have misunderstood.

We are not planning on showing your RATING, but you will know exactly where you rank in relation to other players – you will know your rank, but you will not know the actual #. Other games have done something similar.

You will know your “worth” or how “skilled” you are, you just won’t need a # to show it, you will have a placement in relation to other players.

Sorry I didn’t explain it better in the SOTG.

I don’t understand that…so you’ll know your rank (a number in relation to others), but you won’t know your rating (a number which matches you to others around your rank)….it’s the SAME thing!

2Pyrial,
i believe JSharp&other developers are trying to use the current LoL system in GW2.
If u dont know, it is some kind of “tier/league” system. Each team/player are divided in divisions due to their success in first games + previous season. So basically, you receive points for victory and move to different tier/league. It is pretty much the same as rating/elo system, but with different sauce.
There is a chance that i misunderstood the JSharp’s post.

2JSharp, can u explain how exactly r u going to use this system? "you will not know the actual #. " Because I honestly believe, that rating system is the most clear and obvious right now, as it was used in Guild Wars 1. Which was quite fair and observable.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Felivear, something like that.

We won’t show your rating #, but you’ll know your rank position.

Cool, that sounds like it will work great. Also, mind clarifying something I didn’t fully understand from the SoTG. Peters said that with the matchmaking system, solo players should in theory still be getting quality games because it will match players of skill (and i think he even said prioritize solo vs groups when possible). Does that mean your elo will also be formed from frees? Currently, since there is no paid solo queue, I just don’t understand how it will work.

Thanks.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Oni: Not your fault, we talked about so many things, and I didn’t explain it well.

I’m watching all the threads right now about solo q.

IF you choose to do a solo q. make it solo/duo Q. and make it 1 team vs 1 team not the 8 tourny format that exists for frees now. I mean obviously itz catering to casuals, so better if the matchs are shorter.
Rewards might be tough to decide on. Maybe you change the winning chest reward to have 50/50 shot at winning paid ticket. So on average 2 wins to a paid ticket.

daydream.2938:

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Oni: Not your fault, we talked about so many things, and I didn’t explain it well.

I’m watching all the threads right now about solo q.

IF you choose to do a solo q. make it solo/duo Q. and make it 1 team vs 1 team not the 8 tourny format that exists for frees now. I mean obviously itz catering to casuals, so better if the matchs are shorter.
Rewards might be tough to decide on. Maybe you change the winning chest reward to have 50/50 shot at winning paid ticket. So on average 2 wins to a paid ticket.

I think your statement that “it’s catering to casuals” is a bit incorrect. It doesn’t cater to casuals, it caters to people that prefer to get in game and play alone. Many of my friends are hardcore PvPers who left because they hate the idea of forming groups to compete. I myself currently run paids with a group and I play constantly. I would consider myself hardcore (600+ hours in PvP only) and yet, I would probably spend most of my time in solo/duo queue because of the ease-of-entry.

By the way, about the matchmaking system.
I have faced quite interesting fact during these 2 week of paids: people with low rank/QP’s are getting easy QP if they are somehow decent.
I know that this system prevents the high ranked/exp’ed teams from “stomping out” the newcomers, but dont you think that in this way high ranked premades are putting way more effort to gain the same amount of QP?

JonathanSharp.7094:

I think you may have misunderstood.

We are not planning on showing your RATING, but you will know exactly where you rank in relation to other players – you will know your rank, but you will not know the actual #. Other games have done something similar.

You will know your “worth” or how “skilled” you are, you just won’t need a # to show it, you will have a placement in relation to other players.

Sorry I didn’t explain it better in the SOTG.

So no golden/silver quaggan backpacks(with some aura or effect) or trimmed capes.

Biggest problem with an individual “ELO” rating is that how is it going to do it accurately?

Cause the current score system is flawed as hell.
Also WHEN people figure out how to abuse the system, is going to make it useless and redundant (smurfing, champ point farming anyone?).

Smurfing is useless when rewards are account bound and cannot be traded

JonathanSharp.7094:

We won’t show your rating #, but you’ll know your rank position.

have you any plan for rewards? i mean, when we wont know our rating, it sounds like having rewards for 1500 rating, 1600 rating etc isnt possible… do you even plan to change actual system of rewards?

so why do you still track qp which is meaningless

Just an FYI, I believe they aren’t using “ELO” for those calling it that. I believe they’re using the GLICKO system..though I may be wrong.

JonathanSharp.7094:

I think you may have misunderstood.

We are not planning on showing your RATING, but you will know exactly where you rank in relation to other players – you will know your rank, but you will not know the actual #. Other games have done something similar.

You will know your “worth” or how “skilled” you are, you just won’t need a # to show it, you will have a placement in relation to other players.

Sorry I didn’t explain it better in the SOTG.

Im still a bit pesimistic about how it will work. This is a team game after all. I have a team of 5 players and .. where is OUR TEAM rank?
Im simply asking because lets say i have more teams i want to play in. Sometimes with my guildmates and we try to be e-sport material so probably i would go to high rank. But then im going to play with my PVE friends.. and possibly lose a lot of games. Which will in fact decrease my invisible rating and therefore move my rank down.
An obvious question is there.. why would i play with my PVE friends then? if that would mean loosing ratings and rank?

And how it affect my real team ? If im loosing with other teams then my main team, then my rating is going down.. meaning also team rating is going down because our summary or average or doesnt matter how is calculated is going to drop. At the end.. MM system will recognize it and it will matchup us with sligtly underpowered teams..

so.. The rating / rank im not really sure a personal rank is the right way.. instead i would like to see guild rank or team rank with some kind of “team registration” so you can have more “ranks and rating positions” similar to SC2 system.
Im pretty sure you know SC2 system – i think thats a good way how to do it..

any new thought on this topic?

My idea:

• Paid tournys should make place for Rated tournys (or mayby even better, Guild tournys).
• Free tournys stay unrated
• Besides personal rating there should be a Guild rank which starts from 1 (best team) – to 10.000 or more for the worst guild alive.

This gives the oppertunity for people to practice and form a decent team to get ready for rated games. I said it before, but i will say it again. I think Guild rating is a lot more important then a personal rating. It’s the ultimate motivation for a team to getter and show of their skills.

Aragiel.6132:

JonathanSharp.7094:

I think you may have misunderstood.

We are not planning on showing your RATING, but you will know exactly where you rank in relation to other players – you will know your rank, but you will not know the actual #. Other games have done something similar.

You will know your “worth” or how “skilled” you are, you just won’t need a # to show it, you will have a placement in relation to other players.

Sorry I didn’t explain it better in the SOTG.

Im still a bit pesimistic about how it will work. This is a team game after all. I have a team of 5 players and .. where is OUR TEAM rank?
Im simply asking because lets say i have more teams i want to play in. Sometimes with my guildmates and we try to be e-sport material so probably i would go to high rank. But then im going to play with my PVE friends.. and possibly lose a lot of games. Which will in fact decrease my invisible rating and therefore move my rank down.
An obvious question is there.. why would i play with my PVE friends then? if that would mean loosing ratings and rank?

And how it affect my real team ? If im loosing with other teams then my main team, then my rating is going down.. meaning also team rating is going down because our summary or average or doesnt matter how is calculated is going to drop. At the end.. MM system will recognize it and it will matchup us with sligtly underpowered teams..

so.. The rating / rank im not really sure a personal rank is the right way.. instead i would like to see guild rank or team rank with some kind of “team registration” so you can have more “ranks and rating positions” similar to SC2 system.
Im pretty sure you know SC2 system – i think thats a good way how to do it..

This is a very valid point, and it will simply stratify the community more.
You would not want to play with your lower ranked friends because if you lose, then you lose your own ranking. Or, the matches would be too hard for them.

yea. Basically what i think is that Anet is trying to avoid “smurfing” which become pretty common in GW1. Top teams just made “smurf” guild and played there with other teams. Of course they dont had much challenge.. and so the lower players were stomped fast. That was a team rating.. = smurfing possible
Personal rating = smurfing is not possible, but instead you going to be worried to play with anyone except your own 5 man team.

So there are some + and – in both systems.. and therefore neet to be carefully implemented. Personal rating that dont allow you to play with friends because you then scary of your rank / rating (at this point is same) will hurt the game.

when you are that worried about your personal rating, you shouldnt play RANKED matches with anyone else than with your main team

as you said, there are + and – in all systems