is meta created by mechanics or buzz

is meta created by mechanics or buzz

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Posted by: gesho.9468

gesho.9468

i noticed (in hotjoins) that once the dec 10 patch was announced suddenly im getting way more mesmers and eles, while thievs disappeared. part of this could be ppl practicing in expectation of buffs or quitting in expectation of nerfs. but i also wonder, how much of meta is created by buzz, instead of actual mechanics.

twitch is dominated by couple of players who are set in their opinions. so are tournies. is it possible that opinion of few players dominates spvp and we are missing on richer actual game that is out there?

anet pointed to warrior example several times. it was there for a while, but only after cc promoted warrior in after-pax interview suddenly it “became” op overnight.

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Posted by: Excalibur.9748

Excalibur.9748

well why would you play on a class that is gonna be dead (thief) in dec.10 patch?

as for warrior, many people said it’s op after a week or 2 of HS buff (some even before the patch came out) but the post was only in warrior section so people in sPvP didn’t realize this yet. but after CC used it then tPvP people realized it’s good finally.

but ofcourse “buzz/publicity” is necessary for a build to become popular. Like literally everyone knows thief is gonna be dead come dec.10 so noone plays it even though S/D is still viable right now.

All is vain.

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Posted by: gesho.9468

gesho.9468

but ofcourse “buzz/publicity” is necessary for a build to become popular. Like literally everyone knows thief is gonna be dead come dec.10 so noone plays it even though S/D is still viable right now.

that’s he whole question, isnt it? will it be dead, or “everyone knows” so.

also, often argument goes: “you wont see xxx in competitive play”. but then this mistakenly translates in viable/non-viable label, which is not a valid implication.

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Posted by: Rallad.3802

Rallad.3802

Both, with enough examples in the previous posts.

Though the actually buzz pre-patch is wild speculation and hard to effectively decided what will be op and what will not…

I remember when they announced the ‘Destruction of the Empowered’ trait for warriors along with the ‘Signet of Might’ change, I was terrified they were going to start eating everyone up. Turns out they didn’t…for a while :p

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Posted by: Lordrosicky.5813

Lordrosicky.5813

well why would you play on a class that is gonna be dead (thief) in dec.10 patch?

as for warrior, many people said it’s op after a week or 2 of HS buff (some even before the patch came out) but the post was only in warrior section so people in sPvP didn’t realize this yet. but after CC used it then tPvP people realized it’s good finally.

but ofcourse “buzz/publicity” is necessary for a build to become popular. Like literally everyone knows thief is gonna be dead come dec.10 so noone plays it even though S/D is still viable right now.

lol @ thief being dead. It will still be amazing

Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.

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Posted by: Excalibur.9748

Excalibur.9748

well why would you play on a class that is gonna be dead (thief) in dec.10 patch?

as for warrior, many people said it’s op after a week or 2 of HS buff (some even before the patch came out) but the post was only in warrior section so people in sPvP didn’t realize this yet. but after CC used it then tPvP people realized it’s good finally.

but ofcourse “buzz/publicity” is necessary for a build to become popular. Like literally everyone knows thief is gonna be dead come dec.10 so noone plays it even though S/D is still viable right now.

lol @ thief being dead. It will still be amazing

prepare to eat your words

All is vain.

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Posted by: Finnway.2183

Finnway.2183

Speaking of “Meta-game” at large, and not just about GW2’s meta-game. Really, it’s not created by buzz it is created by performance. Everyone else sees that a build/strategy works well and emulates it.

People who switch classes, heroes, or race, everytime there is a balance patch are kittens because you will never evolve as a player unless you learn from your losses.

Case in point: For the first 6 months of SC2: Heart of The Swarm everyone complained the Widow-Mine unit was OP. They have not released any balance patches effecting the unit, and now everyone complains it is underpowered and needs a buff. Players simply evolved their play and learned counter it. Now, professional players don’t use it any more.

This game is not about out-DPSing you. It’s about out-flashing you.

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Posted by: Excalibur.9748

Excalibur.9748

Case in point: For the first 6 months of SC2: Heart of The Swarm everyone complained the Widow-Mine unit was OP. They have not released any balance patches effecting the unit, and now everyone complains it is underpowered and needs a buff. Players simply evolved their play and learned counter it. Now, professional players don’t use it any more.

uh looks like widow mine was nerfed , and it’s about to get a smaller nerf now.

Hi guys,

We’d like to tweak the changes on the current balance test map a little bit this week.

Instead of doing the Revelation range buff, we’d like to try a change where units that are hit by Revelation can’t remove it by simply burrowing or cloaking. Burrowing or cloaking will still hide the unit, but unburrowing/uncloaking will reveal it again.

We’d also like to try a lesser version of the Widow Mine nerf. Right now, we feel just straight downgrading to the 1.25 range is too big of a nerf. Therefore, we’d like to try a change where widow mines don’t do full damage. Units within the 1.25 radius will take 100% damage like we’re testing right now. From 1.25 to 1.75, units will take 50% or 25% of the full damage. This way, the total splash radius is the same as is on live, but the actual damage output is still nerfed.

Edit to clarify:

Here’s how we’re intending the Widow Mine change to work:

Units inside a 1.25 radius take 100% damage. (40 damage)
From 1.25 to 1.5, units take 50%. (20 damage)
From 1.5 to 1.75, units take 25%. (10 damage)

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Posted by: gesho.9468

gesho.9468

build templates with anet offering some “starter builds” would help to break away from hype driven meta.

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Posted by: jmatb.6307

jmatb.6307

Thief is gonna be fine. All the doom and gloom predictions are pretty hilarious, considering how heavily people have been leaning on the S/D crutch.

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Posted by: Excalibur.9748

Excalibur.9748

Thief is gonna be fine. All the doom and gloom predictions are pretty hilarious, considering how heavily people have been leaning on the S/D crutch.

it’s not a prediction it’s already happening, there is literally 0 interest for S/D set anymore amongst thieves., including its founder – jumper the S/D2 acrobat. it’s a dead set if i ever seen one.

All is vain.

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Posted by: Lordrosicky.5813

Lordrosicky.5813

Thief is gonna be fine. All the doom and gloom predictions are pretty hilarious, considering how heavily people have been leaning on the S/D crutch.

it’s not a prediction it’s already happening, there is literally 0 interest for S/D set anymore amongst thieves., including its founder – jumper the S/D2 acrobat. it’s a dead set if i ever seen one.

Your so clueless

Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.

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Posted by: Excalibur.9748

Excalibur.9748

Thief is gonna be fine. All the doom and gloom predictions are pretty hilarious, considering how heavily people have been leaning on the S/D crutch.

it’s not a prediction it’s already happening, there is literally 0 interest for S/D set anymore amongst thieves., including its founder – jumper the S/D2 acrobat. it’s a dead set if i ever seen one.

Your so clueless

we’ll see after dec.10 who the clueless one is.

All is vain.

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Posted by: Darnis.4056

Darnis.4056

Half and half?
Pretty sure a lot of people run the same builds till they burn out of the meta because they’re unwantd, but then again a lot of players are fair weather OP to OP class jumpers.
Some people still run builds that shouldn’t function.. like shatter mesmer and staff ele…

Will the Real Pink Puma Please stand up?

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Posted by: ArcticPanzerWolf.7692

ArcticPanzerWolf.7692

twitch is dominated by couple of players who are set in their opinions. so are tournies. is it possible that opinion of few players dominates spvp and we are missing on richer actual game that is out there?

Yes. Most definitely. I’ve been playing somewhat of a hybrid staff ele build for the past few months, so naturally, you could imagine the random tells/comments from other players as a result. They range from “I’ve never seen anyone rock a staff ele like that, what are you running?” to “why are you running staff, it’s useless” even after a great performance resulting in a win.

Most of the time, when I question this assertion, I receive rather general replies such as “no top teams run staff ele” or “it’s not the meta” with little to no detail or specifics as to why the build/weapon set I’m running isn’t effective, even though the match play proves otherwise in most cases. When pressed for details, or once I start sharing the logic behind my choices, I rarely receive any intelligent response, but instead, just more parroting of things players have read and heard.

My opinion is that PvP MMOs, especially those with many different class/ability/build combos, offer too many choices for the average player who simply wants to plug in and play. Figuring out how different skills interact with one another and how these combinations may be effective for various situations is not something the average player is interested in doing. So, this ends up with most players emulating other “popular” players/builds, with little to no thought or effort put into anything other than that. Once comfortable, and this goes for the “pro” as well, there isn’t much of a desire to deviate from this. Thus, the perception becomes the reality for the vast majority of players.

Meanwhile, there are players who are constantly tinkering, adjusting, refining and most importantly testing other “non meta” builds. Although you see them less frequently, you still see them. Eventually, some of the higher end players start to notice, become curious, and decide to step out of the comfort zone to find out how some dude playing some underrated class with some crazy kitten build was able to beat them. They start tinkering, adjusting, refining and testing until we start seeing more and more appearances of “off builds”, until they eventually become part of the “meta”, the most overused and misunderstood term in existence right now.

The main problem with this is that the “top end” players start to migrate to these underrated classes/builds just prior to the class/build receiving a buff due to the general lack of appreciation of said class/build by the community at large. Even though in many cases the core mechanics of the class/build which allowed for this potential in the hands of a solid player existed before the buff, it’s almost always the buff itself that is singled out as the reason for this new “meta build” by the average player, resulting in the class/build being dubbed “OP”.

Of course, there are a variety of other reasons for this perception, not the least of which are e-ego and differences in player ability. Some players value their e-status to the point where deviating from the accepted norm is simply too risky, as they open themselves up to criticism from both their peers and the masses. As a result, they aren’t willing to take the time to evolve or adapt, as this could result in at least a temporary drop in their public persona value/leaderboard rating while they work out the kinks.

For the latter, the fact of the matter is that most players simply have an overinflated perception of their own ability. Although the theory behind a given build may be rock solid, most players aren’t going to be able to effectively apply this in competitive play. This greatly limits their options, which leads them directly to the current status quo, but that’s gaming and that’s life in general. Some people are just better at games than others.

This is the reason I enjoy MMO PvP over other options. It’s the build diversity and constant evolution of the game which keeps me interested. If you have the capacity to experiment and learn as well as the ability to move that knowledge from theory to practical application, you are rewarded. Things change in life. Those who are able to adapt, especially ahead of the curve, typically excel relative to those who are constantly catching up.

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Posted by: Lighter.5631

Lighter.5631

Thief is gonna be fine. All the doom and gloom predictions are pretty hilarious, considering how heavily people have been leaning on the S/D crutch.

there is literally 0 interest for S/D set anymore amongst thieves., including its founder – jumper the S/D2 acrobat. it’s a dead set if i ever seen one.

Lol, i can’t believe you just say that, just go back to your cave.

“i think it’s an underserved nerf. now we have to slot a stun breaker??”
“berserker stance clears all CC on you and you’re still immune to CC for 8 seconds”
-Excalibur.9748

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Posted by: Acandis.3250

Acandis.3250

The meta is created when high tier teams come up with a way to counter other teams. If it is effective, it becomes meta. Part of the reason we have been stuck in this kittenty meta for so long is because all of the top tier teams left and all that was left were mediocre teams playing around with the exact same meta that was left by those that came before them. There has been no theorycrafting in this game since spirit rangers and hambow warriors were discovered.

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Posted by: Excalibur.9748

Excalibur.9748

Thief is gonna be fine. All the doom and gloom predictions are pretty hilarious, considering how heavily people have been leaning on the S/D crutch.

there is literally 0 interest for S/D set anymore amongst thieves., including its founder – jumper the S/D2 acrobat. it’s a dead set if i ever seen one.

Lol, i can’t believe you just say that, just go back to your cave.

You know everything i said became true, do you really want to bet against me noob?

Oh wait you’ll just claim you’re “counter-trolling” when S/D is a dead set after Dec.10

All is vain.

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Posted by: gesho.9468

gesho.9468

Part of the reason we have been stuck in this kittenty meta for so long is because all of the top tier teams left and all that was left were mediocre teams playing around with the exact same meta that was left by those that came before them.

lol
I’ve never thought of it (not privy to elites, who left and who didnt), but there might be truth to it.

There has been no theorycrafting in this game since spirit rangers and hambow warriors were discovered.

Where was this happening before? On the web I’ve never seen any numbers :eldacar_of_gw2: