is the spvp community too small to grow into esport?
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A lot of people left spvp because they were disappointed by how lacking it was, so I guess we’ll just have to see what happens down the road. But yeah, of course current size of spvp community is nowhere near large enough to be an e-sport. I hope Anet at least learn from their mistakes here… If you want your spvp to grow into an e-sport, you can’t release a game, that hardly has any spvp content at all. Spvp was the thing they worked the least on, before the game was released, yet their vision for it was set for the highest – esport. It’s kind of hard to understand…
I liked one suggestion that was posted in forum:
To make a PvP only digital gw2 edition for like 20$ or so. It will not only increase the current pvp player base, but also would potentially add more players overall (if they would like this PvP version, either could buy a full digital version with gems from tpvp, or buy it normal way).
Also ontopic: AN in my opinion made a lot of mistakes at the release of the game and few weeks after, they should have given 90% attention to pvp – adding paid tournaments, ranking, duels, maybe other modes of PvPing, instead of working the first updates towards pve, and only after that doing something with PvP, since as an esport-aimed game pve is not the main draw of customers base.
(edited by Lukin.4061)
You need more than 350 people in your Pub rooms to become an esport. So, yes.
I’m trying to go back, but I’m still here.
i feel that there are no more players playing as well
E-sport? Guild Wars 2? There are barely 200 people watching GW2 streams, there is no way this pvp becomes an e-sport, since no one wants to watch Conquest.
The only thing that can push it into becoming an e-sport is money, but I can’t see Anet throwing money for tournaments with so many PvE issues to be addressed.
Just get over with all this nonsense e-sport thing. It is not going to happen.
Leman
Thousands are waiting on the sidelines waiting for esport features
Paid tournies, custom arenas, but also spectator mode and some other tweaks.
League of Legends took a good 10 months to put all that stuff in, and you can see where that game is now.
The key is to make sure the meta is balanced and works well to make for good viewing.
It’s true, there seem to be less and less people playing. It’s most noticeable in paid tourneys, in EU prime time there’s like 10 teams playing in total.
We’ve faced Super Squad in every single tourney we played over last 2-3 days :P.
“Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit,
because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.”
because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure.”
ATM, yes.
:(
spvp map suck, there is so little pvp, you spend most of the time to run from point to point. It’s not interresting to play and not interresting to watch …
This has been said to death, but they should have implemented arenas rather than conquest.
Vacant.4159
This has been said to death, but they should have implemented arenas rather than conquest.
Not really, they wanted an esport, WoW Arena failed as an esport, partly because Arena is too simplistic, lacks points of interests, where as the most sucessful e-sport is LoL, which is objective based.
spvp map suck, there is so little pvp, you spend most of the time to run from point to point. It’s not interresting to play and not interresting to watch …
If you have a very narrow definition of PvP that roughly translates to hitting each other and nothing else, rather than what it actually means which is player competing against player, so covers everything from mass PvP like DaOC, to objective based stuff like LoL to simplistic stuff like WoW arena.
(edited by Sylosi.6503)
The biggest issue i see is that without leagues or a ranking system, new or casual groups get stomped hard and give up trying. There needs to be progression in PvP… fair enough they made a non-gear based progression game, but since it’s skill based, you need to focus on help folks get matched with similarly skilled people. Paid and Free is too simple and with the current paid structure does not work.
They’d have to address issues like player culling and projectiles randomly being obstructed before they even consider calling this game an e-sport. Just imagine a match being lost because a player stayed cloaked for longer than they’re intended to, or a killing shot being lost to an obstruction in the middle of a flat field, it’s not something you want to have when money is at stake.
we need ratings etc to differentiate players and teams by skill levels
Yes, GW2 wanted to become an e-sports title and failed hard at that, will see what the future brings but i can’t imagine the GW2 battlegrounds becoming popular in the e-sports community, arena or dota-mode would have a far better success.
I was in the Mists last night. 8 people total standing in there. At launch it was packed…I sure hope it doesn’t turn into a ghost town game like Swtor.
Casual play comes first.
They need to just follow LoL’s example.
that is very very true, population in games comes from the ‘casuals’ games must cater to them and make them feel not intimidated for attempting to play the game before hardcore gets its way.
ELO/custom servers would be good first steps
We need more maps/game modes that are truly addictively competitive. Not sure that can happen with this game.
Not really, they wanted an esport, WoW Arena failed as an esport, partly because Arena is too simplistic, lacks points of interests, where as the most sucessful e-sport is LoL, which is objective based.
Conquest, as it stands, currently lacks the ebb and flow of LoL’s Summoner’s Rift gameplay. No towers to push, no gold or XP gained over the course of a match (usually one of the biggest indicators of a team’s relative advantage), so on and so forth. Not only that, but it’s also blatantly inferior to LoL’s own Dominion mode, which actually rewards players for playing defensively and also has 5 points instead of 3, which helps to prevent the game from getting stale with bunker builds everywhere.
At this current point in time, the base gameplay just isn’t very good… and you can’t have a good e-sport without that core gameplay.
Thought better of even asking guild mates to consider a tpvp. Thought it might be a good idea to see where balance is atm, both spike, meta, etc.
Got a good dose of thief ST damage, not even needing to assist and seeing damage far exceeding ppls total health pool. Decided, right then and there, not only was I not interested in tourney play, there was no way I was going to pay for it.
Spike damage is out of control, there is no way that I’m forking over hard earned dollars to participate in a gank fest. So really, don’t ask where the player base is on this, they already decided.
I’ve definitely noticed a significant drop in the amount of players lurking in the heart of the mists as well as in actual SPVP games. I suppose a lot of it is down to the current lack of incentives, though hopefully that’ll be solved with the upcoming changes in the November update.
As for whether or not it’ll become an E-Sport? Too early to tell, though I suspect it’ll be a niche if it does.
There are lacking either casual or open world elements that attracts core pvpers in the first place. The sPVP feels like a heartless zergfest and really feels to small and confined to really optimize more diverse tactics, some things like the npcs bother me, it seems odd that they just stand there and wait to be killed. The boards are not just not wide enough they are not 3 dimensional enough. With the kind of engine they have they could have put boards together that put most FPS shooters to shame. Hell I was just thinking of some of the old Tribes Vengeance maps in 2004 that were far more tactically challenging than these. Instead of just a light tower, they should have made it a bit larger with more stair levels and more walkways, made it more than just a building with a hotspot at the top. There need to be more boards with enclosed spaces and walkways and there needs to be more drawbridge and tall ledges or peaks for ranged classes to control areas and give runners more incentive to make runner specs from possibly layered boards with portals to each level. As is the boards are realistically FLAT and cover a small area which means they will be dominated by spammy melee zergs.
Also, taken points should deteriorate into neutral spots after a time, other wise there in no incentive to not leave the zerg and actually defend points. So in fact the points will by default get people into playing some kind of tactical king of the hill then all of the sudden these thieves and warriors will find themselves in more 2v2 situations where they cant hide their Backstabs in a flood of their teamates attacks and hundred blades spam becomes more manageable.
This game will not become a esport the way tpvp is designed. As it stands as of now conquest was a poor choice on anets parts to do class balancing around. Its simple logic that some classes are better designed for it.
Vacant.4159
This has been said to death, but they should have implemented arenas rather than conquest.Not really, they wanted an esport, WoW Arena failed as an esport, partly because Arena is too simplistic, lacks points of interests, where as the most sucessful e-sport is LoL, which is objective based.
It’s more than that, it’s about what the game actually is, not it’s modus operandi. Nobody cares about Dominion.
is there a point where the community shrinks too small to be salvageable?
in your guys’ opinion – is guild wars already at this tipping point?
I don’t think we have enough to hold paid tournaments, much less e-sports. It’s nice that conquest and the free/paid tournament structure is in place, but now we need a solid pvp game for casuals and pugs to bring back the playerbase and keep what we’ve got.
Hopefully that’s coming soon…
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/New-PvP-content-Nov-1st-interview-with-Colin-Johansen
(edited by Master Charles.7093)
Edelweiss.9815
It’s more than that, it’s about what the game actually is, not it’s modus operandi. Nobody cares about Dominion
My point wasn’t that the gamepay is perfect in GW2, but was if they want an e-sport the most succesful e-sport is objective based (yes that includes summoner’s rift) and that suggestions of arena are just hopeless, it is simply too simple a format, that lacks the multiple poitns of interest / tension you get in objective based games.
But anyway, back to the OP, I think the biggest failings in regard to the structured PvP and why the number of players has dimisnished are:
- They released without a way of tourney teams getting appropriate matchups against teams of a similar level, which just puts people off (of all levels).
- The hot join PvP should of been on its own 8 man maps (or have been 5 man), because 8 man teams on a 5 man map is just a total failure, to the point I would say it is the worst (small group) instanced PvP I have ever played, and the last game I played was Rift!. Which has the knock on effect of drying up the supply of potential people who would move on to tournaments or even take an interest in watching tournaments.
Of which I am fine example, I played thousands of warfronts (10-20 per team instanced PvP) in Rift, it is usually my favourite type of PvP, but in GW2, I haven’t set foot in Heart of the Mists for 6 weeks, other than to go to Lions Arch.
From watching the couple of teams who still bother to stream on Twitch, it doesn’t look like free/paid thing is working that well, when teams are still absolutely steamrolling some opponents, or perhaps there are simply so few playing it now that it is unvoidable
For sure it will not become an e-sport. What are you even watching? The only classes that can really do anything worth watching is probably a thief extreme dps taking someone down, and possibly watching endless boringness of someone trying to kill a bunker.
You gotta be kidding about an e-sport and arena net is on crack if they think watching someone 1 vs 1 a bunker for 2 minutes makes for good entertainment. Fighting bunker elementalists is the dumbest thing I ever have to do as a necromancer and it takes way to long, if you are straight dps they will rock you, you have to spec tank necro to even fight back. All it will be is whose bunker build counters the others bunker build and be constant 2-3 minute 1 vs 1s on side objectives and you won’t be able to tell what is happening almost at all in the 3 vs 4 or 3 vs 3 for mid point. And don’t even get me started if people are employing reviving signets, elite skills that revive + give full health and all that other bs. Those types of skills shouldn’t even exist at all, it prolongs fights for no reason.
is there a point where the community shrinks too small to be salvageable?
in your guys’ opinion – is guild wars already at this tipping point?
as far as an e-sport goes yes. as far as the game goes, sort of.
paid tournies are already basically past the tipping point as the queue times are so long barely anyone bothers anymore. Even free tourny queue times are slowly increasing as there is no match making or rankings causing good teams to get bored of stomping pugs and pugs raging at having to face premades all the time. That only leaves spvp as an option which is an 8v8 zerg mess that many people hate. As someone with limited time who enjoys doing tournies against other casual teams ive actually gone back to try and level an alt in PvE until they fix PvP.
Sprawl – Necro – Eredon Terrace
Inc F2P Guild wars 2 PvP only mode.
1 character slot + unlocks for better cosmetic upgrades. Yup.
I think the dirty little secret isn’t that it’s “too small” to form an “e-sport”
It’s that of those that do sPvP, the number of folks that actually give a rip about it becoming an “e-sport” is very small. The bulk just want to log in to their no-subscription MMO and rip out a handful of PvP matches. We aren’t interested in EVER “going pro” and sure as heck don’t care about ever involving into something with spectators or observers.
The simple reality is that a game can’t be designed with an “Imma make this a sport” attitude. Instead, you make a really, really great PvP game and it EVOLVES into one that the players and interested parties take to the next level. It happens fast for some, less fast for others, but the most development concern that really ought to be exerted for it is the implementation of content that has the intent of “competitive play”. If and when you hit that magic button, it catches on and THEN you implement the e-sport aspects.
Right now, we’ve got a free tournament mode for “competitive” play that doesn’t foster competitive play because premades farm pugs in it, a paid mode that costs too much to bother with when you aren’t forming teams because of the state of the free, and an sPvP mode that doesn’t have the tools or variety to make anyone who is currently not interested graduate to the next level.
Don’t take this as me not liking PvP in this game…I love it it a beer and pretzels game sort of way. There just isn’t any “competitive, win a ladder” type motivation vibe coming from it.
is there a point where the community shrinks too small to be salvageable?
in your guys’ opinion – is guild wars already at this tipping point?
as far as an e-sport goes yes. as far as the game goes, sort of.
As someone with limited time who enjoys doing tournies against other casual teams ive actually gone back to try and level an alt in PvE until they fix PvP.
thats exactly where your pvper “casuals” are. when anet does something with pvp, and basically all they need to do is said right here, then ppl are gonna get back to the mists, and not just to get to LA.
I just think the way in which the conquest is setup is a big factor in what’s holding it back. There is nothing wrong with the mode for this sort of game/class setup – it’s just that the mode is badly designed at the moment
1st there is to few points (should be 5 minimum IMO) for the player count, then there is the fact the points don’t tick down if you have more team mates on that point vs the other team (that in itself makes no sense at all).
If these 2 things alone got changed it would be a big help and chage the dynamics of the s/tPvP, sure it wouldn’t be everything needed to save it as an esport – but these 2 things are what should have been very basic aspects from day 1.
Zilori: Guardian – Desolation.
Zarturo: Elemental – Desolation.
Zarturo: Elemental – Desolation.
(edited by MajorMelchett.6042)
yes, if u had 2 ppl on point vs 1 bunker, but still be able to cap it, but slower, it would be a bit better, since the dynamics of the game is still moving toward the team that is putting more resources to get the point, but slow enough for bunker to get reinforcements… it would be more exciting.
Since I don’t like conquest i don’t even play it to win anymore just run to the center and hope it will have a fight usually end up outumbered which is going to happen anyways with snares while running around. I only play it when wvw is a bad week. Kinda wish my teams did the same, the opposing team takes both other points they gotta go somewhere (the last cap point aka center). Actually if a server agreed to it you could leave the side points blank and fight over center you’d get more glory that way and not be kinda wasting time running around 1vx’ing people.
I must’ve missed the sign that said it was a fire sale.
(edited by R E F L H E X.8413)
Very few people are doing spvp and even less doing tpvp.
LOL is an esport because the people who play it all do pvp.
They need to get people doing it more often. Atm its intimidating. I find it intimidating and I’ve played 700 games. It desperately needs a ladder system.
In WOW people are attracted to it because it offers rewards. It needs skins that you can use in the real world.
We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional
Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)
Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)
Inc F2P Guild wars 2 PvP only mode.
1 character slot + unlocks for better cosmetic upgrades. Yup.
That’s the only way to grab more players.
F2P for PVP
not 20€ not 5€, totally free it has to be.
Like LoL. it was rly bad at release too but they have toooooooooooooooooooooooooooons of player. And now they’re rly successful.
GW2 esport pvp ist rly bad at release and have nearly no pvpler left in the game. In Paid, which open only in a timewindow of 4hours 8.p.m -12p.m gmt+1, u have 75% the same enemys over and over in your roster. And at other times u have to wait over 30min to popup invite sucks. abouve all if you kicked out in round 1. In this case 4 of 8 teams are kittened up. And have to wait 30min again after ~15min playing the game.
Mighty Shinn
Jealous Much [JM]
Jealous Much [JM]
Not to mention the fact that the classes are kinda limited and you end up with 2 or 3 bunkers and at least 1 mesmer. Pretty boring class match ups.
Character countering is one of the best things about LOL.
We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional
Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)
Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)
reading about what it could be is more enjoyable than playing what is, says a lot
conquest. does. not. work.
I’d watch a gvg every now and then to see what people were running and the format itself is not a very bad one to watch.
I wouldn’t bother to watch a conquest game though to look at one cap where we got one person standing over here doing nothing, while we got two over here fighting 1v2 for a cap point then we got two more in the middle just trying to hold or any kind of variation of this. If it’s not really fun to play it really won’t be any fun to watch. Just reading my text I typed out makes it sound more exciting than what watching it would be.
conquest. does. not. work.
It shouldn’t be too much longer I give it a 3-6 more months at most and I think 6 months is being very very generous, before they realize how big of a mistake conquest mode was, and think they may even be starting to realize it somewhat now. I see it as the destruction of guildwars 2 pvp by choosing this format, and the destruction fo a good title that now has even guildwars 1 players looking for a new game, because it killed guildwars 1 on release from what I hear. I’m not even looking for a new game anymore, there isn’t one that will be like guildwars pvp. If I play something after this it will be an rts mmo wise, and even then I think I’m done with gaming kind of after the dissapointment from this release.
Conquest would be nearly an empty format that people would sometimes go to to fool around in/run troll builds in/test runes out/test builds/etc and gvg would be thriving right now if they had gvg in on release.
I must’ve missed the sign that said it was a fire sale.
(edited by R E F L H E X.8413)
conquest. does. not. work.
I disagree, i think it’s more of a case of the current form of GW2 conquest doesn’t work.
Zilori: Guardian – Desolation.
Zarturo: Elemental – Desolation.
Zarturo: Elemental – Desolation.
I’m with Thrym. I’m a casual who really just wants 5v5 hotjoin – quick objective based games with randoms. 8v8 is horrible and tourni’s = premade stomp PUGs. At the mo i am alternating between PvE levelling and choosing low number (4-8) PvP hotjoin games (and switching out after a few games when the numbers get too high again)… and this is still far far from ideal, but at least no zerg. If Anet can keep the PvP casuals going they might get their esport. If not…
Yes, but the game still has potential, and that’s the important thing. You can’t create a popular eSport game in a few months, these things take a lot of time. If ArenaNet can get the metagame more balanced, and make more maps within the next few months, it could turn out for the better. But there are no guarantees with this stuff, it’s always a gamble, because in the end it doesn’t matter how great the game is, you need people to make the game popular.
80 Ranger | 80 Mesmer | 80 Thief | 80 Guardian | 40 Engineer
“The learned is happy, nature to explore. The fool is happy, that he knows no more.”
-Alexander Pope
“The learned is happy, nature to explore. The fool is happy, that he knows no more.”
-Alexander Pope
(edited by Kasama.8941)
It’s conversion numbers, I imagine.
Think of all the people who play PvE. Of that number, probably 50% may try sPvP at some point, considering people who stop playing, never use the account and so on. Of that 50%, another 25% might actually play consistently. Of that 25%, another 50% of that number might try tPvP. Of that small number, only a few may actually be able to form groups consistently or know enough people to create an organized team. After that, you deal with the problems associated with the game mode itself.
I imagine barely anyone plays tPvP in comparison to the rest of the game. It’s too detached from everything else, and due to how punishing PvP is on new players and how brutal 8v8s are on new players, that also turns off people immediately. No ranking system, a bad starter game mode and a fairly isolated area that some have never even heard of (I see people who want to know what HotM even is at times)… that’s a recipe for low populations.
You gotta be kidding about an e-sport and arena net is on crack if they think watching someone 1 vs 1 a bunker for 2 minutes makes for good entertainment. Fighting bunker elementalists is the dumbest thing I ever have to do as a necromancer and it takes way to long, if you are straight dps they will rock you, you have to spec tank necro to even fight back. All it will be is whose bunker build counters the others bunker build and be constant 2-3 minute 1 vs 1s on side objectives and you won’t be able to tell what is happening almost at all in the 3 vs 4 or 3 vs 3 for mid point
lol so true. I went bunker as ele and had this 2+ min fight with a bunker guardian . I am pretty sure we could have have fought forever and both would be at full hp. In the end a ranger on my team showed up and it took 2 of us another 2 mins to down the guardian.
Yes it is too small.
It could become an esport if:
sPvP game should be completely free the same as LoL. Make money on the micro transactions. Some will try the free sPvP and go on to buy the PvE. Sponsors etc will only come if the numbers of players is huge.
Servers are not US only. Asians are big players in Esport. They cant compete with at best a 200 ping.
Other ideas:
Allow betting gems – real sport is largely about gambling. Buy back gems for real money.
Put numbers on our backs. What sport doesn’t have numbers on the players? I don’t like the name tags over everyone’s heads so this is a bit of a personal wish I guess – get rid of name tags and use numbers tied to scoreboard.
Put voice comms in game. PuGs don’t all have the resources to take up Voice comms.
Allow spectating including listening to voice comms.
Allow spectators to look at player stats. Wins, builds etc.
Allow commentators with some incentive in game. Most of these guys will have their own channels but it could be brought in game or an official Anet website and tied in with whatever advertising revenue the commentators getting their money from (google?). Do a deal with Twitch to make it accessible in game.
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