Guild Wars 2

If you play eny class in the game accept Necro and get beaten by eny other class you either need to rethink ur build or learn skills of ur enemy all classes have good builds right now. Problem with Necros is they have not enough aces to stability and stunbreaks making it easy to lock down

Ps ppl mistake others being op with them not being op eny more and to be good player you need to win 50% of equal fights

And yes rangers can be insanely strong when played right my guildleader loves ranger candy can beat eny class or eny one with emu build on ranger 1 vs 1

Everything about this thread, i lol’d

All I’m saying is if eny 1 want so say that they are out of meta only necrosis have right and I’m mostly playing guard , thief and mesmer

win

/char rawr

I bet my guildleader is more rangerer thanks urs!

I rate 1/10 for trying.

baylock.1703:

And yes rangers can be insanely strong when played right my guildleader loves ranger candy can beat eny class or eny one with emu build on ranger 1 vs 1

Are you saying he uses moas?

I tend to agree with the OP for most of it. It’s not builds that are OP, You’d have to account that certain builds are hard counters to other classes. Then u also need to take in account that still quite a lof people have classes that lean towards the zerker/dps meta on account of the ‘’power inflation’‘. I see a kittenload of people complaining about burning with those people have 20+ ticks and more. often a lack of condi removal. They are very few traits in builds that could make a class OP. I never suffered from anything of the recent patch. Mesmer,Warriors, Engineers, thiefs. They all were beatable. If I with necro can fight for several minutes with a ’’condi mesmer’’ with the supposedly underdog necro then honestly i do think people need to rethink thier strategy. to me it seems the meta is hinging to the balanced build site.

You don’t need stability you have 10 fears and 100k hp and Lich iwin button.

Ragnarox.9601:

You don’t need stability you have 10 fears and 100k hp and Lich iwin button.

Necromancer has 2 fears 21k hp 12k lifeforce and lich is like ok every 1 attack me now correct me if I’m wrong necromancers

imo the game is extremely balanced atm…no problem with any of the things mentioned in alot of threads rampage is fine ele is fine, mesmer even is just hard to fight wars can finally be something else other then shoutbow….awesome rangers no complaints tbh best patch ever

Darksteel.8412:

imo the game is extremely balanced atm…no problem with any of the things mentioned in alot of threads rampage is fine ele is fine, mesmer even is just hard to fight wars can finally be something else other then shoutbow….awesome rangers no complaints tbh best patch ever

Darksteel, no one values your warped opinions, sorry.

baylock.1703:

Problem with Necros is they have not enough aces to stability and stunbreaks making it easy to lock down

First I agree with the L2P

But necro have 4 stun-break utilities … they also get stab from 2/3 of their elites, both which aren’t all that bad…

OneKlicKill.4285:

baylock.1703:

Problem with Necros is they have not enough aces to stability and stunbreaks making it easy to lock down

First I agree with the L2P

But necro have 4 stun-break utilities … they also get stab from 2/3 of their elites, both which aren’t all that bad…

Yeah but the dealer dealt him a kitten hand so he doesn’t have enough aces to be able to use them.

OneKlicKill.4285:

baylock.1703:

Problem with Necros is they have not enough aces to stability and stunbreaks making it easy to lock down

First I agree with the L2P

But necro have 4 stun-break utilities … they also get stab from 2/3 of their elites, both which aren’t all that bad…

Are you trying to argue necro is not easy to lock and beat down? Stun breaks and stab don’t make you hard to pin down compare guard to war obviously war is easier to lockdown because he facetanks more compare guard to mesmer obviously guard is easier to lockdown because mesmer has more active defenses.

If what you say was true, they would never make skill changes.

The very fact that skill changes are done is proof that there’s broken builds. Particular combinations of skills, gears and traits that work too well together. Players find those loopholes in balance, and exploit them to get unfair advantages with which they earn undeserved victories, until what’s broken is fixed, and then they cry because they have no skill, and they can’t win without those broken builds.

How ironic when the ones who need to “L2P” the most and can’t do a thing without abusing loopholes in the balance are the ones going around saying others should “l2p”.

This is a game, not real life politics. You can’t prevent things from being fixed by lying and saying they are ok when they are not.

If Balthazar was around, he’ll smack them exploiters silly until their ears flop like freaking sparkfly wings.

MithranArkanere.8957:

If what you say was true, they would never make skill changes.

The very fact that skill changes are done is proof that there’s broken builds. Particular combinations of skills, gears and traits that work too well together. Players find those loopholes in balance, and exploit them to get unfair advantages with which they earn undeserved victories, until what’s broken is fixed, and then they cry because they have no skill, and they can’t win without those broken builds.

How ironic when the ones who need to “L2P” the most and can’t do a thing without abusing loopholes in the balance are the ones going around saying others should “l2p”.

This is a game, not real life politics. You can’t prevent things from being fixed by lying and saying they are ok when they are not.

If Balthazar was around, he’ll smack them exploiters silly until their ears flop like freaking sparkfly wings.

there’s a difference between exploits/bugs and what people think is ‘OP’ and i think this thread no matter how poorly worded kind of has a point, most of the problems people have with a lot of the classes can be outplayed to some degree or another.

just to be clear I’m not denying that balances need to be made. I just think that players should look for more possible in game solutions before complaining about it on the forums.

Umm… PU/Condi mesmers need to talk to u xD,

There are SOME op things in this game, but yeh the damage people are QQIng on is power creep due to the new expansion coming, People just havnt caught onto that.

MithranArkanere.8957:

If what you say was true, they would never make skill changes.

The very fact that skill changes are done is proof that there’s broken builds. Particular combinations of skills, gears and traits that work too well together. Players find those loopholes in balance, and exploit them to get unfair advantages with which they earn undeserved victories, until what’s broken is fixed, and then they cry because they have no skill, and they can’t win without those broken builds.

How ironic when the ones who need to “L2P” the most and can’t do a thing without abusing loopholes in the balance are the ones going around saying others should “l2p”.

This is a game, not real life politics. You can’t prevent things from being fixed by lying and saying they are ok when they are not.

If Balthazar was around, he’ll smack them exploiters silly until their ears flop like freaking sparkfly wings.

Ha ha ha, don’t make me laugh. Builds working too well, exploiting loopholes? You talk as if there is some kind of objective standard of creativity. How in the world do you know how traits are meant to be applied? How do you know that the developers intended for traits to only be combined with certain traits? U cannnot be this strong, is absolutely subjective and in no way does it actually prove that builds are broken.

The only thing that can be said to be objectively an exploit is if through unconvential means certain feats can be achieved. For example running through walls, or go outside the map etc.

You are so sure of yourself, How can you tell that buffs or patches are based on the developers intentions rather then to cater to players such as yourself who go on the ‘’Dis Build is OP’’ Bandwagon and are rather making the game easier for people such as yourself?

Don’t act as if you know what is going on here. You know what they say, They’re will Always be somebody better then you=> A Builds OPness is all in the eye of the beholder.

L2P

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

[…]

What we all know is that after most updates there’s always something broken.

And we can just go to the wiki and read the history of all skills to see things like the broken Descent to Madness that deals over 30K damage or the Broken grenadier that could go through hordes of enemies as if they were brittle paper.

Acting all dismissive as if such things didn’t happen is pointless. It serves no purpose, it helps no one, and won’t prevent things from being eventually fixed.

There are broken things, they need to be fixed, and going around telling people there’s nothing broken and ‘l2p’ while wielding something broken is both unethical and hypocritical.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

[…]

What we all know is that after most updates there’s always something broken.

And we can just go to the wiki and read the history of all skills to see things like the broken Descent to Madness that deals over 30K damage or the Broken grenadier that could go through hordes of enemies as if they were brittle paper.

Acting all dismissive as if such things didn’t happen is pointless. It serves no purpose, it helps no one, and won’t prevent things from being eventually fixed.

There are broken things, they need to be fixed, and going around telling people there’s nothing broken and ‘l2p’ while wielding something broken is both unethical and hypocritical.

I never denied that there is something broken. Infact even outright stated that some things can objectively be stated to be broken. Aka actuall exploits and stuff like going through walls, reaching places through unconventional means, often through forms of travelling not possible. That is something i can admit.

However the moment you get in certain traits or certain builds are too OP, Or too broken. U get into the subjective matter of reasoning which is fine and all. But do not act as if you can accurately gage what is too strong and what isn’t. U’d have to handpick what is broken and what isn’t. The default doesn’t lie in ah this build is too strong for me, so therefore it’s broken. that cannot possibly be the default without the developers self stating that they intended for certain traits to work differently.

Considering they are tiers of pvp play. What might be broken to you, Might not be broken to me. which with the current patch is almost nobody, aside from a few to this point have bested me in 1v1’s or one point figting. With the difference in player skill. no player can objectively say: ‘’This build is too strong. ’’ it simply makes no sense.

Anyways, I bet that even after some nerfs. People will continue making ’’OP’’ builds. You will keep getting destroyed over and over again. People will keep asking for nerfs. And this will keep going on and on. Who would then be to blame? What if all of your nerf wishes came true.And people still managed to destroy you? Who will you blame?

This kinda culture supports the supression of build creativity. the thing is here. that no buff or nerf will satisfy. there will Always be people who have concerns. Rather i prefer we adapt.

Game is never going to be balanced but the community fixes that by focusing the OP players.

Call target on necro to kitten support, leave war for last.

Same old, same old. Anet is just making it a little more comfortable every ship.

Sagat.3285:

OneKlicKill.4285:

baylock.1703:

Problem with Necros is they have not enough aces to stability and stunbreaks making it easy to lock down

First I agree with the L2P

But necro have 4 stun-break utilities … they also get stab from 2/3 of their elites, both which aren’t all that bad…

Are you trying to argue necro is not easy to lock and beat down? Stun breaks and stab don’t make you hard to pin down compare guard to war obviously war is easier to lockdown because he facetanks more compare guard to mesmer obviously guard is easier to lockdown because mesmer has more active defenses.

I mean yeah a power necro is easy food, but that’s their choice, and even then they are the least glassy zerk class (beside war, seriously their base armor/hp is dumb).

A well played necro isn’t any easier to hold down than other classes. Maybe give them a trait or utility that gives them minor access to stability (I’d like to see a trait for a 90s ICD immune to one disable while channeling, generates 2 stab for 4 seconds) maybe a wells or spectral skill to get some access to stab. I don’t think they should have heavy access to it as they counter to necro damage, healing, and shroud generation is proper interrupts.

I find the biggest problem with necro is that I can’t stunbreak/transfer condi use minions in shroud (seriously the elite minion just goes afk if you go into shroud.) but no they have a really strong active defense and high HP pool, bringing the correct utilities and a defensive trait line and I don’t think necros are in a bad place at all, and they are no harder to lock down than other classes also remove the weird interaction with shroud damage and 1h/2h weps and make them the same. Just a few tweaks and i think necro are fine.

If your looking for mobility to kite as far as lockdown, i think the necro has good CC and thats what they should be using for that. The GS spec will also give easy access to a dash for those who are looking for the run away from fights role.

baylock.1703:

Problem with Necros is they have not enough aces to stability and stunbreaks making it easy to lock down

Yes, those OP thief stability and stunbreaks… You should be ashamed of yourself, complaining about that on a highly-survivable-in-comparison-necro. You can always save your Death shroud for emergencis. I know I do that on necro^^ Get out of jail free-card (most of the time).

Is the OP serious or joking? I can’t tell.

What OP meant to say is….After a balance change everyone is in a l2p phase. When things settle down, if you post on the forums that a certain class needs a nerf you really should look at the data available.

For PvP, which classes/builds are used on tournament teams.

For PvE, which classes/builds are used on speed run tournaments.

For WvW you can ask which classes/builds are used in GvG’s, but that’s only part of the WvW story.

If you complain about a class in a game mode, and it’s not used very much in that game mode, then you need to l2p.

Swamurabi.7890:

If you complain about a class in a game mode, and it’s not used very much in that game mode, then you need to l2p.

If I will complain about how Rangers and Necros are UP, do I have L2P because they aren’t played in Tournaments? ;-(

Swamurabi.7890:

What OP meant to say is….After a balance change everyone is in a l2p phase. When things settle down, if you post on the forums that a certain class needs a nerf you really should look at the data available.

For PvP, which classes/builds are used on tournament teams.

For PvE, which classes/builds are used on speed run tournaments.

For WvW you can ask which classes/builds are used in GvG’s, but that’s only part of the WvW story.

If you complain about a class in a game mode, and it’s not used very much in that game mode, then you need to l2p.

while I am not disagreeing that observing tournament choices is a far cry from what I am about to suggest or not useful in obtaining accurate results, I think that nerfs should actually be called only after extensible observance about how a class performs in multiple game modes in standard scenarios (2v1, 1v1, 1ve, team, zerg, etc) and versus standard class builds. If they consistently overperform then players can look at what gives them the sizeable edge.

unless this is done already. I’m just getting a vibe of “ooh tourney players use it, it must be op pls nerf” from lots of the [insert example of why X is op] threads.

Drayos.8759:

Umm… PU/Condi mesmers need to talk to u xD,

There are SOME op things in this game, but yeh the damage people are QQIng on is power creep due to the new expansion coming, People just havnt caught onto that.

This isn’t World of Warcraft.

Ascended/legendary gear will stay as the final and strongest gear tier.

So what damage is being preready for the expansion, if numbers are staying the same?

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Swamurabi.7890:

What OP meant to say is….After a balance change everyone is in a l2p phase. When things settle down, if you post on the forums that a certain class needs a nerf you really should look at the data available.

For PvP, which classes/builds are used on tournament teams.

For PvE, which classes/builds are used on speed run tournaments.

For WvW you can ask which classes/builds are used in GvG’s, but that’s only part of the WvW story.

If you complain about a class in a game mode, and it’s not used very much in that game mode, then you need to l2p.

while I am not disagreeing that observing tournament choices is a far cry from what I am about to suggest or not useful in obtaining accurate results, I think that nerfs should actually be called only after extensible observance about how a class performs in multiple game modes in standard scenarios (2v1, 1v1, 1ve, team, zerg, etc) and versus standard class builds. If they consistently overperform then players can look at what gives them the sizeable edge.

unless this is done already. I’m just getting a vibe of “ooh tourney players use it, it must be op pls nerf” from lots of the [insert example of why X is op] threads.

I think the biggest mistake in looking at how classes perform in 1v1, 2v2 and 3v3 tournaments and making the case that it should be good in a 5v5 is that the encounter never changes in a 1v1, 2v2 or 3v3.

A big part of what makes a successful tournament team is picking players and classes that reduce or limit the unfavorable situations for the team. Granted there are some players that are just better than others at a specific profession, but class nerfs shouldn’t happen because of the extraordinary play of one player.

If you have a 1v1, there’s at least four possible strategies in going for a 1v1.

You want to win the 1v1.
You want to delay the 1v1, contesting as long as possible but still lose.
You want to hold on for a +1
You want to force them to +1 you

Also conributing to the discussion is how you get into the 1v1 in the first place. A 1v1 at home is different than at far. Which class could break off mid the best? Who would you want to go from spawn to far? None of these are considered in a 1v1 tournament.

If you look at 2v2, it just gets more complicated and 3v3 even more.

That’s why I say you should look at tournament teams as a starting point and then start asking the why questions before you post about how a class is OP, or UP.

No one even knows where ArenaNet bases their changes, buffs, or nerfs from. Since the developers don’t communicate, the players become frustrated.

We need ghostcrawler.

Wait….what…da…huh wait a second……

THIS WAS A REAL kittenING THREAD!?